Foreigners in Phuket: Dive shop blitz clarifies instructors' work descriptions

[webfact]

Foreigners in Phuket: Dive shop blitz clarifies instructors' work descriptions
Phuket Gazette


Orakarn Tongkaew of the Employment Office said that work permits would only be written in Thai. Photo: Saran Mitrarat

PHUKET: -- Foreign dive instructors’ job descriptions were clarified during an inspection led by Phuket Governor Maitri Inthusut in Patong today, as the Public-sector Anti Corruption Commission (PACC) investigates allegations that police were extorting money from them due to ambiguities in work permits.

“We only came to check work permits and clarify the information within them to the employees. We did not come to make any arrests; that is not our job,” said Phuket Employment Office Chief Yaowapa Pibulpol.

Job descriptions in work permits are only written in Thai. Despite a push from Governor Maitri and the Association of Thailand for Underwater Sports (ATUS) (story here and here), that will not change, explained Orakarn Tongkaew of the Employment Office.

“Work permits are the property of the Thai government and will only be written in Thai,” said Ms Orakarn. “However, our officers must explain the job description and what is written on the permit when the employee picks it up.”

Ms Yaowapa explained that dive instructors are allowed to lecture students, as well as train with them in swimming pools and in the sea.

“You must carry out these activities in Phuket province only, as the authority of the Employment Office only covers people working in Phuket,” she added.

She went on to clarify that dive instructors are not meant to be tour guides or to help customers carry equipment.

“Thai law lists 39 jobs that are specifically reserved for Thai nationals, and service jobs, such as carrying equipment and acting as tour guides, are included on that list,” Ms Yaowapa said.

— Saran Mitrarat

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Foreigners-Phuket-Dive-shop-blitz-clarifies-instructors/29049#ad-image-0


-- Phuket Gazette 2014-04-05

[Thai at Heart]

Hahaha. The knot of corruption and deceipt tightens and loosens all at once.

Train them in swimming pools and the sea. .so at what point does training in the sea become taking them on a tour? How far out to sea are internatinal waters?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[clockman]

This is called Thainess, Farang never understand!

[keestha]

Labor department divers will carry out under water checks to verify if these foreign instructors are instructing indeed or illegally acting as tour guides.

[virtualtraveller]

Brilliant, so as your dive boat crosses over into Krabi waters you need a different work permit from a different provincial office which is impossible so you need two dive instructors on the boat, not to mention a Thai to carry even a mask and flippers, and of course a Thai liaison officer to assist them in fitting the gear.

[wobalt]

No more diving for instructors and students from Phuket at Koh Phi Phi etc.?

Instructors are allowed to carry their own or rented equipment.

Customer are allowed to carry..

If not..I am allowed to clean my rented apartment?..

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[clockman]

Or we love your money! but we do not want you.

[o2eZy]

clockman..yes that is how it is...farangs are all rich so show me the money

[Somtamnication]

Incredible! So a falang staff member, seeing a 60+ lady trying to bring her scuba gear, cannot help. A restaurant owner cannot sit down and talk to a customer, nor take orders, nor serve in their own restaurant.

This place has a lot to learn about customer service.

[wobalt]

Following scenario comes into mind:

Every morning in front of the dive shops herds of migrant workers (most likely not Thai do the job) awaiting the dive customers to get the 10 baht job. Same at Chalong Pier.. Everything according to the immigration motto - every dive customer his own Kuli.

When the boat is leaving Chalong Bay the work permit boat enters the dive boat to check if instructors are on board possibly intending to dive outside Phuket waters.....

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[yooyoo farang]

picking up on foreigners again for this or that is easy.

they shrunk down the Club Med village to a simple hotel since they complained about sailing activities,diving,surfing,touring...

just because it was taking off the locals on the beach.

the labour law is so tricky that you can take any part of it to serve your purpose against foreigners,

i wonder what will happen with ASEAN regulations next year .

will Thailand put the pants down or order to get the money down?

[klauskunkel]

picking up on foreigners again for this or that is easy.

they shrunk down the Club Med village to a simple hotel since they complained about sailing activities,diving,surfing,touring...

just because it was taking off the locals on the beach.

the labour law is so tricky that you can take any part of it to serve your purpose against foreigners,

i wonder what will happen with ASEAN regulations next year .

will Thailand put the pants down or order to get the money down?

re: ASEAN, then the double standards become triple

[madmitch]

So, does this imply that no foreign nationals will now be allowed to work on liveaboards as they are generally acting as guides and not instructors?

Also awaiting the new porter mafia to start at Chalong pier.

[Bocking]

Have you ever noticed the small kiosk at Suvarnabhumi Airport .. It's located just inside in the baggage claim area and I think the sign reads 'LEFT LOGIC'

[PJcm]

Brilliant, so as your dive boat crosses over into Krabi waters you need a different work permit from a different provincial office which is impossible so you need two dive instructors on the boat, not to mention a Thai to carry even a mask and flippers, and of course a Thai liaison officer to assist them in fitting the gear.

You can extend the area of operation with an amendment to your work permit, not very difficult at all. Apply at the Labour office with the appropriate forms and reasons. As an insurance loss adjuster had mine amended to their entire country.

[soalbundy]

picking up on foreigners again for this or that is easy.

they shrunk down the Club Med village to a simple hotel since they complained about sailing activities,diving,surfing,touring...

just because it was taking off the locals on the beach.

the labour law is so tricky that you can take any part of it to serve your purpose against foreigners,

i wonder what will happen with ASEAN regulations next year .

will Thailand put the pants down or order to get the money down?

So you think ASEAN is still going to happen?

Edited April 5, 2014 by soalbundy

[steelepulse]

>>She went on to clarify that dive instructors are not meant to be tour guides or to help customers carry equipment.

This just opens up the "legal extortion" route and do away with the under the table bribes. I've yet to see any instructor or divemaster not carry equipment and not lead a group of divers under water. Mighty convenient this clarification.

[stevenl]

The main problem was unclairity about instructor activities, this clarifies things, so excellent news.

And as somebody who deals with this on a daily basis, unlike the other contributors so far, very workable as well.

Edited April 5, 2014 by stevenl

[oldsailor35]

You just got to be highly qualified like the Patong jet ski scammers, then it is perfectly OK.

[retell]

Following scenario comes into mind:

Every morning in front of the dive shops herds of migrant workers (most likely not Thai do the job) awaiting the dive customers to get the 10 baht job. Same at Chalong Pier.. Everything according to the immigration motto - every dive customer his own Kuli.

When the boat is leaving Chalong Bay the work permit boat enters the dive boat to check if instructors are on board possibly intending to dive outside Phuket waters.....

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Suprised that dive instructors are not obligated to get of those anklebracelets fitted so they can monitor where they are

[steelepulse]

The main problem was unclairity about instructor activities, this clarifies things, so excellent news.

And as somebody who deals with this on a daily basis, unlike the other contributors so far, very workable as well.

So who is leading the divers underwater on a daily basis? I can't recall seeing all Thai instructors and divemasters on the boats I've been on.

[NamKangMan]

Following scenario comes into mind:

Every morning in front of the dive shops herds of migrant workers (most likely not Thai do the job) awaiting the dive customers to get the 10 baht job. Same at Chalong Pier.. Everything according to the immigration motto - every dive customer his own Kuli.

When the boat is leaving Chalong Bay the work permit boat enters the dive boat to check if instructors are on board possibly intending to dive outside Phuket waters.....

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Suprised that dive instructors are not obligated to get of those anklebracelets fitted so they can monitor where they are

That's the next step, if they don't pay tea money after being caught carrying their dive gear and underwater tour guiding.

The more they complain about the corrupt payments, the more they utilise the labour laws to make it cheaper and easy to pay the corrupt payments so that they shut up and pay the tea money.

[stevenl]

The main problem was unclairity about instructor activities, this clarifies things, so excellent news.

And as somebody who deals with this on a daily basis, unlike the other contributors so far, very workable as well.

So who is leading the divers underwater on a daily basis? I can't recall seeing all Thai instructors and divemasters on the boats I've been on.

As long as they are students all is fine. And if fundiving a Thai divemaster would be required. You just have to work within the system, and now the system has been clarified.

Edited April 5, 2014 by stevenl

[steelepulse]

I rarely see "students", most divers are already qualified, and I would say the percentage of foreign to Thai instructors/divemaster is at least 10:1 from personal observations. Even Thai owned companies that go to the Similans employ foreign instructors/divemasters.

[stevenl]

I rarely see "students", most divers are already qualified, and I would say the percentage of foreign to Thai instructors/divemaster is at least 10:1 from personal observations. Even Thai owned companies that go to the Similans employ foreign instructors/divemasters.

Continuing education is big, big business, qualification courses are just a small part of the courses taught. On liveaboards nitrox and advanced courses are very frequently taught. In the local area divetrips to Racha Yai consist nearly exclusively of students, to Racha Noi and Phi Phi also a vast majority, to Shark Point area also fundivers.

For divemasters the ratio is far below 10:1, there are no legal foreign DM's here But yes, if looking at the whole picture I would say a bit less than 10:1, maybe more 8:1, but many, many more foreigners than Thais, yes.

Plus there is always the option of paying some tea money and avoiding checks But there now is also clarity about legal requirements.

[Procrastinator]

[quote name="stevenl" post="7653307" timestamp="

The main problem was unclairity about instructor activities, this clarifies things, so excellent news.

And as somebody who deals with this on a daily basis, unlike the other contributors so far, very workable as well.

As long as they are students all is fine. And if fundiving a Thai divemaster would be required. You just have to work within the system, and now the system has been clarified.

Agreed. Ambiguity is the killer.

But if "fun diving", does one actually need to be accompanied by a dive master?

That said, when i was working as an instructor, i never liked having others handle my gear. it was precious to me, as it preserved my life.... Mind you, on reflection, perhaps thats what i told myself, as i never had a paid servant to hump my pack

[Phuketboy]

There is a loophole for every foreign worker. When you apply for a work permit through your lawyer you can list everything you need to do. You cannot do those jobs listed under jobs for Thai's such as service, construction, etc because they are a Thai only job, however the loophole is that you can put down that you train staff. Therefore as long as you have a Thai person standing next to you, you can basically do whatever you want. If questioned you can state you are training a staff member and showing them what you want them to do. This advice came from my lawyer.

[stevenl]

There is a loophole for every foreign worker. When you apply for a work permit through your lawyer you can list everything you need to do. You cannot do those jobs listed under jobs for Thai's such as service, construction, etc because they are a Thai only job, however the loophole is that you can put down that you train staff. Therefore as long as you have a Thai person standing next to you, you can basically do whatever you want. If questioned you can state you are training a staff member and showing them what you want them to do. This advice came from my lawyer.

You mean that same lawyer that didn't come when called by the instructor after he was apprehended?

[SanukJoeII]

The nervousness of the foreigners in the diving industry shows that there is a whole lot illegal, whether no WP at all, or a WP for less activities than are performed. Both are wrong and unlawful. Up to foreigners to stick to the rules, simple as that.

A dive-instructor is paid to teach people HOW to dive, not where to dive, accompanied by him. They are two different jobs and if you got a WP for one job you cannot perform the other job too.

[Halion]

Love it or hate it you simply can not dispute that this is a very screwed up and egregious society.

No mater what subject,industry or activity they can manage to destroy any semblance of development or progress through their ass backward, insular mentality.

Although there are several well trained and operated dive businesses there are also more who have under qualified and inexperienced locals acting as Dive Leaders/Tour Guides whose abilities and attitudes have strong parallel with the standard of driving and road safety .