Seriously Disturbing - Adolf Hitler Adoration -

[northernjohn]

Most Thais know nothing about the second world war, my wife had a hard few days working out why we were visiting the bridge on the River Kwai.

Yes we know about it more than the Thai's do because of a movie. In reality the Thais had more people losing their lives in the construction of the death railroad than the POWs.

[Som wat]

His name is Harry Von Walnutwhip and lives out in San Sai.

He was in my Thai class and we applied for PR around the same time.

Funny guy.

[Eliot Rosewater]

Perhaps, at least now we know a bit about hin
I suggest he keep a close eye on his car as well as his home and those who live in it

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 8, 2014 by Eliot Rosewater

[Som wat]

Harry Von Walnutwhip fears no man.

[northernjohn]

I have been spending a lot of time discussing things with a young Thai lady who is very smart and would have gone to college if she had been able to. She had to drop out in her last year when her father died and she needed to work to help support the family. She had a 3.5 grade average She was completely clueless about Hitler other than what we had been talking about. All she said was wasn't he a bad man.

In return I found out how clueless I was about Eastern history.

I guess what I am saying here is neither side teaches any thing about the history of the other side. So perhaps we should be throwing rocks at both sides when it comes to teaching world history. Not at the people.

I can not prove it but I bet if you go to any school in the west and ask the Senior graduating students who Pol Pot was they would not know. But they could tell you about Napoleon.

If you are clueless as to "Eastern History", educate yourself. Because I went to a Church of England affiliated school I was taught from a certain perspective. Our scriptures class was strictly Christian and I never met a muslim until I was in university. Very little was taught in respect to other non major western cultures or histories. Know how I remedied that? I read and educated myself. My friends and family have taught me a lot about other cultures and histories. Reading books is an efficient way of self education and enlightenment. Schools can only do so much. It is up to us to make ourselves aware and to continually educate ourselves. Education is a lifelong process.

Western kids are more clued in than you give them credit for. Today, the twitter universe is alive with news about the kidnapping of the school girls in Nigeria. School kids across North America and western Europe are organizing and speaking out against the crime. It is not uncommon now to have schools require social service as part of their curriculum. A lot has changed since you were in high school. In Thailand, those on twitter are probably discussing the latest hairstyle of a K-Pop singer. Thailand now is a culture given to the pursuit of money and selfishness and we see this reflected in the affliction called corruption. A culture that does not grow through innovation and self improvement, stagnates and eventually perishes. It takes awhile, bit it happens. Just ask the Philistines if you can find any.

I went to a Catholic school so we were tought a little about the Muslims and it was not any thing good.

I stand by my statement that the average graduating senior in the west would not know who Pol Pot is. I give an example of before the electronics age 30 years ago. You give an example of today in the age of electronics when all the kids do is play with electronics gain weight and blame it on McDonald's. No comparison to the kids of 30 years ago. Or your time and my time

[northernjohn]

Nonsense. They were partially responsible for the crimes of Nazi Germany and they started attacking the Jews long before that, after they had been living side by side peacefully for centuries. The leader of the Muslims in pre-Israel Palestine, Grand Mufti Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, was closely allied with, and actively assisted the Nazis throughout the Second World War. Al-Husayni met with Hitler several times, and was hosted in Berlin as the Nazis honored guest for most of WWII. He was given a personal tour of the Auschwitz death camp by Heinrich Himmler, where he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and have made their own bed.

Kill the Jews wherever you find them, this is pleasing to Allah.

- Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, 1943

Not just the Palestinians.

.

You are saying that because Hitler met the pope he was authorizing the slaughter of the Jewish people?

What year and where was the picture taken. Bear in mind the Pope had to protect the Vatican which in affect was in German occupied Territory.

There have been many things said about that Pope but no one has ever really put the whole story together. Just a bunch of innuendos such as yours.

If I recall correctly in the little bit I have read of it The Jewish people lived in Arab nations with mostly Muslim neighbors and got along fine until the war and Hitler came along.

[Jingthing]

The facts might start to come out now about Hitler's Pope. It is already well known the Vatican's action were shameful during this period. Sorry, Catholics, it is what it is.

Francis 'will open files on Hitler's Pope', says friend Decades of doubt over the role played by "Hitler's Pope" under the Fascist regimes in Italy and Germany during the 1930s and 1940s may be answered if Pope Francis, as a close friend has suggested, opens the Vatican archives.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10004609/Francis-will-open-files-on-Hitlers-Pope-says-friend.html

[Mapguy]

The Palestinians are paying fro the crimes of Nazi Germany - which may be 'facts on the ground', but really isn't fair.

Nonsense. They were partially responsible for the crimes of Nazi Germany and they started attacking the Jews long before that, after they had been living side by side peacefully for centuries. The leader of the Muslims in pre-Israel Palestine, Grand Mufti Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, was closely allied with, and actively assisted the Nazis throughout the Second World War. Al-Husayni met with Hitler several times, and was hosted in Berlin as the Nazis honored guest for most of WWII. He was given a personal tour of the Auschwitz death camp by Heinrich Himmler, where he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and have made their own bed.

Kill the Jews wherever you find them, this is pleasing to Allah.

- Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, 1943

Sorry UG, but what you have written doesn't tell much about a complex history.

I understand what you have written, but I think you are totally underplaying the thrust of Ottoman and post-Ottoman politics and Post WWI administration in historical Palestine, especially considering the occupation by the British after WWI resulting from the Versailles Treaty and the Zionist movement in Europe dating back to the late 1800s.

Long before the Holocaust European Jews were seeking refuge, and because so many Jews felt guided by their interpretation of their bible, they headed from Europe to Palestine decades before Hitler. There was no Israel, but they felt otherwise, of course. The sense of an Israel as a nation came later, especially after the Holocaust. So, Hitler, to get back to this thread's OP, did accelerate the exodus. And the exodus was quite understandable.

To generally malign the Muslims in that region is not historically accurate. To call them anti-semitic is patently absurd. They are semetic. How semetic are the European Jews since the disaspora some two centuries ago? Think about it!

From the Wikipedia:

Today, the word "Semite" may be used to refer to any member of any of a number of peoples of ancient Southwestern Asia descent including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews (Jews), Arabs, and their descendants.

This is just a bullet comment about a very complex history. No comment here on what the secular European (coupled with the religious) nature of Israeli law as opposed to the traditional Ottoman laws and earlier regional traditions (honored by the Muslim Ottomans for centuries) has wrought to create what are unfortunately called these days "facts on the ground."

There is a lot more to consider. Before Hitler and the "ultimate solution," things were bad enough in Palestine. They have since gotten worse, a lot worse. Yes, Hitler and his henchmen had a lot to do with precipitating today's reality. But a lot more preceded Hitler and the Holocaust, and a lot more has happened since for which to blame Hitler is rather shallow.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Mapguy

[Beetlejuice]

Is it that time of the week already?

Yes, how many times are we going to do this?

Maybe it should become a pinned topic.

You are right.

This is just some prat that likes to draw attention to his/her self, hardly worth mentioning.

[northernjohn]

The facts might start to come out now about Hitler's Pope. It is already well known the Vatican's action were shameful during this period. Sorry, Catholics, it is what it is.

Francis 'will open files on Hitler's Pope', says friend Decades of doubt over the role played by "Hitler's Pope" under the Fascist regimes in Italy and Germany during the 1930s and 1940s may be answered if Pope Francis, as a close friend has suggested, opens the Vatican archives.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10004609/Francis-will-open-files-on-Hitlers-Pope-says-friend.html

Could be interesting. Not only was he the head of the Catholic church but he was the head of the Vatican which in it's self is a country. I am sure there was some less than popular deals made to keep it all in one piece.

It would seem that before he became Pope he had a record of helping Jewish people to escape Nazism. None of that will show up in the archives. Or perhaps I am wrong. At any rate the generally over all picture would be nice to know.

Edited May 8, 2014 by northernjohn

[Jingthing]

The Palestinians are paying fro the crimes of Nazi Germany - which may be 'facts on the ground', but really isn't fair.

Nonsense. They were partially responsible for the crimes of Nazi Germany and they started attacking the Jews long before that, after they had been living side by side peacefully for centuries. The leader of the Muslims in pre-Israel Palestine, Grand Mufti Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, was closely allied with, and actively assisted the Nazis throughout the Second World War. Al-Husayni met with Hitler several times, and was hosted in Berlin as the Nazis honored guest for most of WWII. He was given a personal tour of the Auschwitz death camp by Heinrich Himmler, where he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and have made their own bed.

Kill the Jews wherever you find them, this is pleasing to Allah.

- Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, 1943

Sorry UG, but what you have written doesn't tell much about a complex history.

I understand what you have written, but I think you are totally underplaying the thrust of Ottoman and post-Ottoman politics and Post WWI administration in historical Palestine, especially considering the occupation by the British after WWI resulting from the Versailles Treaty and the Zionist movement in Europe dating back to the late 1800s.

Long before the Holocaust European Jews were seeking refuge, and because so many Jews felt guided by their interpretation of their bible, they headed from Europe to Palestine decades before Hitler. There was no Israel, but they felt otherwise, of course. The sense of an Israel as a nation came later, especially after the Holocaust. So, Hitler, to get back to this thread's OP, did accelerate the exodus. And the exodus was quite understandable.

To generally malign the Muslims in that region is not historically accurate. To call them anti-semitic is patently absurd. They are semetic. How semetic are the European Jews since the disaspora some two centuries ago? Think about it!

From the Wikipedia:

Today, the word "Semite" may be used to refer to any member of any of a number of peoples of ancient Southwestern Asia descent including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews (Jews), Arabs, and their descendants.

This is just a bullet comment about a very complex history. No comment here on what the secular European (coupled with the religious) nature of Israeli law as opposed to the traditional Ottoman laws and earlier regional traditions (honored by the Muslim Ottomans for centuries) has wrought to create what are unfortunately called these days "facts on the ground."

There is a lot more to consider. Before Hitler and the "ultimate solution," things were bad enough in Palestine. They have since gotten worse, a lot worse. Yes, Hitler and his henchmen had a lot to do with precipitating today's reality. But a lot more preceded Hitler and the Holocaust, and a lot more has happened since for which to blame Hitler is rather shallow.

Not this again.

Antisemitic refers ONLY to Jews.

That's what the word means.

Arabs can be antisemitic even if they are Semites ... if they are it means they hate JEWS.

Yes even Jews can be antisemitic; we call them self hating Jews.

Jews who hate Arabs, that is NOT antisemitic; that is something else.

This isn't controversial.

It's a SET definition.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Mapguy]

Sorry that Beetlejuice is bored, but much of this conversation has IMHO been rather interesting. Ok, it started with a "Hitler motif" on a CRV or similar auto. That, contrary to what OP entitled the thread, is hardly "Adolf Hitler Adoration." That's too simplistic. Could just be immaturity. Fortunately, since, some rather interesting voices have been heard since on this thread.

I have commented previously on the history. Now, to tackle the dude who apparently runs around with the stupid cartoon on his autobutt. I am among those who would simply call him a jerk. I did not want to know his name or nationality. He is just a jerk as far as I am concerned. To identify him by name or by nationality doesn't help --- except to clarify he is not Thai ---especially some of the heroic people who saved Jews during the NAZI era, both in Germany and in occupied nations. A lot of occupied people unfortunately "went the other way" or, for most, really, just wanted to keep their heads down.

So what does Hitler really represent? A psychopathic reality that captured too many desperate people. Very tragic. Should Thais understand this European history? I think it very narrow-minded to expect it. For an apparent European --- seemingly some sort of "skinhead" --- to give the finger to people on his spare type deserves to be rammed by CPAC at full throttle!

[Mapguy]

To respond to Jingthing, yes, I understand what you have written, and I understand common parlance, but to say that it is "set" is to say that usage has been politically warped and regrettably misused. Think about that and how the misappropriation of important cultural distinctions have been ignored. It seems that people have been very uncomfortable with saying "anti-Jewish." And that is really what it is all about. In the meantime, the Palestinians, as Semetic as anyone in that region, have been rather overwhelmed.

So, I leave you with this question: How do European traditions of law, from which so many current Israelis hale (let alone other continents), coupled with interpretations of of the Jewish bible, agree with the Semetic traditions of the region? The answer to that is not so surprising and undergirds "facts on the ground."

Is it any surprise that some people who had absolutely nothing to do with Hitler or the Holocaust get upset?

To suggest some parallel to Thailand --- and Chiang Mai, which is the largest city in the mixed ethnic pot of Northern Thailand --- consider that, while there are clear prejudices of one kind or other, this region is remarkably tolerant and accommodating ---if too much nation-building doesn't overwhelm the rich multi-dimensional cultural heritage of this region.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Mapguy

[Beetlejuice]

Sorry that Beetlejuice is bored, but much of this conversation has IMHO been rather interesting. Ok, it started with a "Hitler motif" on a CRV or similar auto. That, contrary to what OP entitled the thread, is hardly "Adolf Hitler Adoration." That's too simplistic. Could just be immaturity. Fortunately, since, some rather interesting voices have been heard since on this thread.

I have commented previously on the history. Now, to tackle the dude who apparently runs around with the stupid cartoon on his autobutt. I am among those who would simply call him a jerk. I did not want to know his name or nationality. He is just a jerk as far as I am concerned. To identify him by name or by nationality doesn't help --- except to clarify he is not Thai ---especially some of the heroic people who saved Jews during the NAZI era, both in Germany and in occupied nations. A lot of occupied people unfortunately "went the other way" or, for most, really, just wanted to keep their heads down.

So what does Hitler really represent? A psychopathic reality that captured too many desperate people. Very tragic. Should Thais understand this European history? I think it very narrow-minded to expect it. For an apparent European --- seemingly some sort of "skinhead" --- to give the finger to people on his spare type deserves to be rammed by CPAC at full throttle!

On this thread Hitler represents an image displayed on some prat`s spare wheel holder.

I haven`t witnessed any Jack boot wearing, Thai storm troopers goose stepping down my way as yet, but if I do see anything, I will start a new thread on the subject.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Chiengmaijoe]

Perhaps, at least now we know a bit about hin

I suggest he keep a close eye on his car as well as his home and those who live in it

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why, what are you going to do?

[wellred]

I think all Thais brandishing nazi regalia should be identified and banned from entering Europe.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I think all Thais brandishing nazi regalia should be identified and banned from entering Europe.

He's Dutch!

[rhythmworx]

Time for a quick break, take a breather

Ahhhhhh that's better, Hitler who's he?

[zeichen]

I don't understand how this has made it to 4 pages. This is the second thread of this type in the past few weeks. Not about Chiang Mai.

Personally, I don't understand why there are so many threads about this. There is a Hitler spoof on youtube that is quite popular, many tv shows have added things about Hitler and Nazis as a part of their skits. When is it acceptable and when is it not? Seems like a fine line.

First of all there are only 3 things one can do. Ignore it, accept it, or do something about it.

i guess there is now a 4th sit on your chair, secretly complaining about how stupid or ignorant another culture is for not sharing your same disgust.

Though I share a lot of the same tension and disgust when I see the same imagery, I do realize that some people do not have a direct relationship. Would you ever yell at a kid dressing up as a Night Templar for halloween back home?

Every country and most people are not always as sensitive to others as they are to their own beliefs.

[Ulysses G.]

The Palestinians are paying fro the crimes of Nazi Germany - which may be 'facts on the ground', but really isn't fair.

Nonsense. They were partially responsible for the crimes of Nazi Germany and they started attacking the Jews long before that, after they had been living side by side peacefully for centuries. The leader of the Muslims in pre-Israel Palestine, Grand Mufti Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, was closely allied with, and actively assisted the Nazis throughout the Second World War. Al-Husayni met with Hitler several times, and was hosted in Berlin as the Nazis honored guest for most of WWII. He was given a personal tour of the Auschwitz death camp by Heinrich Himmler, where he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. The Palestinian Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and have made their own bed.

Kill the Jews wherever you find them, this is pleasing to Allah.

- Mohammad Amin Al-Husayni, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, 1943

There is a lot more to consider. Before Hitler and the "ultimate solution," things were bad enough in Palestine. They have since gotten worse, a lot worse. Yes, Hitler and his henchmen had a lot to do with precipitating today's reality. But a lot more preceded Hitler and the Holocaust, and a lot more has happened since for which to blame Hitler is rather shallow.

Not this again.

Antisemitic refers ONLY to Jews.

That's what the word means.

Arabs can be antisemitic even if they are Semites ... if they are it means they hate JEWS.

Yes even Jews can be antisemitic; we call them self hating Jews.

Jews who hate Arabs, that is NOT antisemitic; that is something else.

This isn't controversial.

It's a SET definition.

Some people do not seem to understand that "Semitic" refers to people who speak Semitic languages. It has nothing to do with race and, as Jingthing points out, the term "anti-Semitic" only refers to Jews, not anyone else.

Yes, it is true that the Palestinian Arabs started attacking and murdering Jews several decades before Hitler did, but that does not mean that they were any less anti-Semitic than this tyrant that they embraced and supported in the second World War. Grand Mufti of Palestine Hajj Amin ElHusseini was largely responsible for riots started in 1920 that targeted innocent Jews, which is one of the reasons that Adolph Hitler held him in such high esteem.

"...I hold all commanders and other SS officers, responsible for the most scrupulous and loyal respect for this privilege especially granted to the Moslems. They have answered the call of the Moslem chiefs and have come to us out of hatred for the common Jewish-Anglo-Bolshevik enemy and through respect and fidelity for he who they respect above all, the Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler. There will no longer be the least discussion about the special rights afforded to the Moslems in these circles....

Heil Hitler!

(signed)

H. Himmler"

Edited May 9, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[cheeryble]

I'm interested in raising this to a higher level.

I use this example of Hitler, not Herr Walnutwhip (actually the same applies to him).

I believe we all get a strange subtle level of enjoyment from hating people.

We stick people in the love slot, the neutral slot, or the hate slot.

What we do is mentally change them from what they are......a congeries of characteristics good and bad who we unthinkingly assume to be the same as they were yesterday.....to a caricature which we can easily classify into a mental drawer so our opinions on them.....well actually they become preconceived auto-reactions about them......are ready-to-serve.

Buddhism and the perennial philosophy, the worthwhile core running through, but distorted by, many worthless religions, tells us.....and one can work this out intellectually.....it tells us that there is no "person", there is no soul, that as I say we're just a process, a congeries of factors mental and physical.

So Hitler was just a product of his genetic makeup, plus chemical influences dependent on what happened to his mother in pregnancy, plus what happened to him in childhood (where interestingly he went to the same school as Wittgenstein, a 3/4 Jew racially, if there is such a thing which is a stretch in the Ashkenazim) and through all the conditioning from multitudinous factors throughout his life. He didn't have any choice at all about what memories were laid down in his own brain...the amygdala does that.....or how they were formatted. Yet those memories he didn't choose are the basis for the thought patterns we think are "him".

Somehow we end up with an automatic aversion to Hitler's particular brain matter and the body he didn't choose which goes around it.

So whilst we might better condemn the thought or the action (actually in Buddhism a thought IS an action) we reify the "person" and it becomes a hate figure.

Which begs the question.....how does this help our lives?

Does it make us happier?

We might well remember the Stoic admonition that other "persons" and events are not responsible for our reactions and our mental states (and mental states are really all that matters).

In other words we ought not blame others for our disgust, our anger, or our negative emotions.

Seneca, and he was a very sharp pencil following in the footsteps of Epictetus, tells us we and we alone are responsible for our mental states.

"You make me angry always coming home from work late!"

No.

I have allowed myself to become angry, and generally speaking, I do nothing about this painful emotion, I just feed it.

An intelligent person would deal with it in an intelligent way, instead of just reacting like an automaton ....(of course this is a skill.)

So, whilst we cannot for the life of us understand how Hitler could do what he did, he might say the same about us.

Perhaps we should just be more skillful ourselves, and not forget how Hitler loved his doggy woggies so our automatic hate reaction diminishes and we head towards the far preferable state of ataraxia, or calm.

Remember, if Hitler had used the same tactics to see things more as they really are, the holocaust would never have happened.

Cheeryble

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited May 9, 2014 by cheeryble

[KhunKevin]

Hi everyone, now this is on topic, but i have to ask.....i am going to a fancy dress party, so what can i wear?

Nazi uniform...out, Muslim....out, black man...out, Thai rice worker.....out? English army...out? Scotsman...out? Nurse...? doctor..? Mr Blobby (No uniform needed.....so fat man....?)

So you hopefully get what im getting at.........

Fancy dress parties, soon a thing of the past !

Khun.......ermmm sorry Mr Smith!

[Som wat]

I think all Thais brandishing nazi regalia should be identified and banned from entering Europe.

He's Dutch!

Yup.

Mr. Harry Von Walnutwhip.

Or with his full middle names included - Mr. Harry Strawbelly-Cheetcake Von Walnutwhip.

I think the Dutch newspapers should be contacted.

[nottocus]

I don't give a crap if someone has a swastika and a picture of an Austrian on the back of their car.

[landtrout]

I think all Thais brandishing nazi regalia should be identified and banned from entering Europe.

He's Dutch!

Yup.

Mr. Harry Von Walnutwhip.

Or with his full middle names included - Mr. Harry Strawbelly-Cheetcake Von Walnutwhip.

I think the Dutch newspapers should be contacted.

You've been flogging this weak attempt at misguided humour for days now, even though nobody is giggling except for you.

Are you simply trying to divert attention from the topic being discussed, or is this a cry for help?

[amexpat]

Hi everyone, now this is on topic, but i have to ask.....i am going to a fancy dress party, so what can i wear?

Nazi uniform...out, Muslim....out, black man...out, Thai rice worker.....out? English army...out? Scotsman...out? Nurse...? doctor..? Mr Blobby (No uniform needed.....so fat man....?)

So you hopefully get what im getting at.........

Fancy dress parties, soon a thing of the past !

Khun.......ermmm sorry Mr Smith!

Fancy dress parties will still be around for people who can differentiate between Adolph Hitler and English soldiers, Scotsmen, rice workers, etc.

[transam]

Hi everyone, now this is on topic, but i have to ask.....i am going to a fancy dress party, so what can i wear?

Nazi uniform...out, Muslim....out, black man...out, Thai rice worker.....out? English army...out? Scotsman...out? Nurse...? doctor..? Mr Blobby (No uniform needed.....so fat man....?)

So you hopefully get what im getting at.........

Fancy dress parties, soon a thing of the past !

Khun.......ermmm sorry Mr Smith!

Fancy dress parties will still be around for people who can differentiate between Adolph Hitler and English soldiers, Scotsmen, rice workers, etc.

Nooooooooo problem with this...................

..................

[Som wat]

I think all Thais brandishing nazi regalia should be identified and banned from entering Europe.

He's Dutch!

Yup.

Mr. Harry Von Walnutwhip.

Or with his full middle names included - Mr. Harry Strawbelly-Cheetcake Von Walnutwhip.

I think the Dutch newspapers should be contacted.

You've been flogging this weak attempt at misguided humour for days now, even though nobody is giggling except for you.

Are you simply trying to divert attention from the topic being discussed, or is this a cry for help?

What's with your trolling? It's not welcome here.

[onthedarkside]

I think that this topic has gone well well past it's expiry date ...

//CLOSED//