Immigration clarifies Phuket visa run 'crackdown'

[Puccini]

...

One major aim of tightening the rules is to limit the number of people who arrive as tourists but are in fact planning to commit crimes – skimmers and ATM robbers are recent examples.

...

As an Italian I am allowed three times 30 days to skim and rob ATMs, then I have to let somebody else have his turn or alternatively go to a neighbouring country to get a tourist visa if I want to continue my criminal activities in Thailand. Life is beautiful. You won't hear me complain about this system.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[deepcell]

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but the internet is not a place - therefore even if you trade entirely on the intranet then your business should be registered somewhere and pay the appropriate business taxes. So if you have a business that trades over the internet are you saying that it is impossible to register your company in Thailand? The difference between internet and other businesses is that you will usually need to register your home as the business address and in many countries (I don't know about Thailand) it is not always easy to legally register a home address as a business address as this becomes a change of use - however it does happen so must be possible.

Equally if you are permanently resident in Thailand and receive an income from either inside or outside the country then surely you should also be paying tax on it - interest on capital is still an income in most countries.

My suspicion is that there are many people simply looking for a way to live in a low cost country and at the same time reduce or eliminate their liability for paying tax. The fact that you spend your money in Thailand does not substitute for paying tax because that spend does not directly contribute to government provided services. Even Amazon pay tax in the country their business is registered in! If you run an online business which is registered elsewhere then why should you be allowed to work in Thailand where you could employ Thais to conduct any business that needs to be done from Thailand.

Whilst tax evasion is illegal I believe that tax avoidance is morally wrong and not something that should ever be encouraged or made easy. Those who make the most should contribute the most.

Each case is different and I am not implying that this description fits everyone and I do agree that laws should be flexible enough to allow legitimate people who are willing to pay taxes and contribute directly to the Thai social structure.

Well, it is a difficult subject,

In Brazil for example you can register your company in your home address, it is so easy and you can do it online, then you get a CNPJ, and other countries the process is very similar (I did myself in Brazil).

Paypal and other internet companies made a fortune operating in so many countries for so many years, now they need to register an office in the country they operate business otherwise it is tax evasion (but who care about? now they are fuc*** billionaries).

I agree each case is different and laws should be more flexible with people, but the imigration law in Thailand sure need a deep review, or create new ones.

I work in the internet for many years as a software developer, I live in Asia, and I WORK. Then what? Am I a criminal? Am I breaking the law? bulls**** I pay the tax in my home country (lots of tax), and everything I need is a working connection, my VPN ON and a big mug of black coffee. No one will even track me down or spy on me.. even if someone come after me, they will find a lot of codes and what? working? huh? The misinformation today is a huge problem in society, they make this up for scare people, all about mass control. If you know the law, use it for your own safe. If they do not want you still living in the country, then pack and go for the next country (after months you can return to Thailand, none will remenber of you).

feeling mad right now!

[rayinkrabi]

Hi, first an apology in advance if this has already been addressed as I've only read a few pages of this post and got a bit bored.

“Tourists may renew 30-day or 15-day visas three times" I realise most understand that what is being referred to is not a visa but simply a standard entry stamp on arrival but why would an immi official quote so wrongly?

I haven't done visa runs for ages but I recall reading there was no limit on the 15 day stamps, which was later changed back to 30 day for some nationalities...have I missed something along the way?

[keestha]

The ED loophole is bound to be closed off some day. How long can it realistically take to learn a language, maybe 2 years? Everybody depending on this type of visa should plan ahead expecting the screws to tighten, and try to find a more durable solution.

[Som wat]

The ED loophole is bound to be closed off some day. How long can it realistically take to learn a language, maybe 2 years? Everybody depending on this type of visa should plan ahead expecting the screws to tighten, and try to find a more durable solution.

I studied Thai for about 4 years years before sitting my Bor Hok exam.

[manarak]

This is the twenty first century. Many people are now making their living on the internet, making their money from other countries and living in Thailand spending their money. These people have no legal means of living in Thailand. Even if they are on a non immigrant O visa, they are still breaking the law, because they don't have a work permit. Thailand should welcome these people. They are not taking jobs from Thais. Most of them make a lot of money and thus spend a lot of money in Thailand helping the economy. Quite a few live in rural areas where their contribution to the economy is well appreciated. Thailand should change their immigration procedures welcoming these people. They should issue work permits for working on the internet and issue non immigrant B visas for this purpose. If the individuals can show proof that they have brought an appropriate amount of money into the country they should get an extension of stay visa. Thailand should also offer an extension of stay visa for the purpose of retirement to any age level if they meet the financial requirements. Many people are inheriting large sums of money from their parents and are retiring early. These people want to live in warm country and many choose Thailand, but have no way of getting a legal visa.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's not really difficult to setup a company and get a work permit.

Sure if you want to pay somebody else to do it all for you. Whan you start trying to get all the papers together yourself, mixed in with every vist to any govt office requires a return trip to pick up whatever you went in to apply for, + of course the one paper you don't have, + the factor that they want you to use agents for everything, + tend to discourage independence by being as much a pain in butt as can be, like docs not being in English when actually they should be ( ASEAN....) = IMO then it becomes collossal headache and small business owners need not apply.

You want to run a mega factory and take advantage of slave waged labor, then Thailand is very welcoming.

Why,... it's the Walmart of Nations

why on earth would someone want to do the administrative paperwork by himself?

anyone doing decent money with his internet work shouldn't have a problem with the price of that service and just the time spared is already worth the money! Just spend that time working on the net...

[stevenl]

This is the twenty first century. Many people are now making their living on the internet, making their money from other countries and living in Thailand spending their money. These people have no legal means of living in Thailand. Even if they are on a non immigrant O visa, they are still breaking the law, because they don't have a work permit. Thailand should welcome these people. They are not taking jobs from Thais. Most of them make a lot of money and thus spend a lot of money in Thailand helping the economy. Quite a few live in rural areas where their contribution to the economy is well appreciated. Thailand should change their immigration procedures welcoming these people. They should issue work permits for working on the internet and issue non immigrant B visas for this purpose. If the individuals can show proof that they have brought an appropriate amount of money into the country they should get an extension of stay visa. Thailand should also offer an extension of stay visa for the purpose of retirement to any age level if they meet the financial requirements. Many people are inheriting large sums of money from their parents and are retiring early. These people want to live in warm country and many choose Thailand, but have no way of getting a legal visa.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are right George an each and every one of them could and SHOULD open a company and get a visa linked to that company.

Else you are breaking the Law. You are guest - act like one.

G

PS I did not see your response to a post before responding - I don't see why you can not open a Thai company and link your business to it and get a Visa. I have a friend that has just moved here for 12 months (maybe longer) and has don just that.

G

Moronic post.

All of the successful people I know who work online are "soloprenuers".

They work alone in high skill/high value niches.

Why on earth would they open a company when they must have four Thais sitting around doing absolutely nothing.

In order to be legal. Their choice to work illegally, but don't complain if caught out somehow.

[wilcopops]

One has to say that the OP is just a list of stupid upon stupid......it clarifies little, suggests the chap himself doesn't really understand the regulations and makes some absurd assumptions about the connection between foreigners, visas and crime.

It seems that far to many people achieve positions of authority in Thailand through methods other than merit.

[Radar501]

Immigration clarifies Phuket visa run 'crackdown'

The title of this topic says it all.

I really don't mind how tough the visa laws and procedures are, in fact, the tougher the better.

What irks me is the inconsistencies that seem to apply from one immigration office / border checkpoint / embassy / consulate / official to the next.

[keestha]

What irks me is the inconsistencies that seem to apply from one immigration office / border checkpoint / embassy / consulate / official to the next.

Point taken and you are right, but mostly the same could be said of most countries in the world.

[Frank James]

Education, work, business, volunteering, retirement, marriage, parenthood, tourism... nope not enough. Can just show up and get 30 days without any visa? No, not good enough. We want to LIVE here!

Well okay, will you work? no. Study? no! Business? No! Are you married? no! A Parent? No! Volunteer? No! Any sort of right at all to just come and live here? No! We're White Westerners, we can do what we want in any country we choose to grace with our presence.

How dare they stop these people from abusing a system designed for tourists.

Blah blah blah. You must be with the Tourist Police.

[ATF]

Education, work, business, volunteering, retirement, marriage, parenthood, tourism... nope not enough. Can just show up and get 30 days without any visa? No, not good enough. We want to LIVE here!

Well okay, will you work? no. Study? no! Business? No! Are you married? no! A Parent? No! Volunteer? No! Any sort of right at all to just come and live here? No! We're White Westerners, we can do what we want in any country we choose to grace with our presence.

How dare they stop these people from abusing a system designed for tourists.

Blah blah blah. You must be with the Tourist Police.

He's probably one of those geriatric clown cops in Pattaya. I think they are allowed to carry a whistle.But they get a badge and have to pay for their own clown suit. Bust him Danno 2 days overstay.

[Ianatlarge]

"crimes committed by foreigners in Thailand"

As opposed to the crimes committed by Thais, in Thailand

"the number of tourists who are thought to be working illegally"

I really don't see many westerners taking Thai jobs. Do you want to work on the farm.

Still, someone told me, that for 50b, a Burmese can cross the river into Thailand, curtesy of the boys in blue. No me. But someone.

This is rediculous. 99.99% of westerners are of positive benefit to Thailand. Money, jobs, expertise, and a bit of humour. Maybe cutting the Thai bureacracy is the best way of helping the Kingdom?

Is it really a problem that some folk on tourist visas stay here as permanent residents? In Isan there are way more than a few farang looking after a Thai family (and half the village). How about these guys leave, and the Thai gov take over?

The Thai visa situation (not the website, let me hasten to clarify) is a jumble mess, where lots of interested parties make a living, but at the expense of a great deal of wasted effort. Thailand is not the only country in this situation, but it is where we are. How about a fundamental change to the visa system. Pay as you go, pay at a 711 or police station. Just a thought.

[stevenl]

"crimes committed by foreigners in Thailand"

As opposed to the crimes committed by Thais, in Thailand

"the number of tourists who are thought to be working illegally"

I really don't see many westerners taking Thai jobs. Do you want to work on the farm.

Still, someone told me, that for 50b, a Burmese can cross the river into Thailand, curtesy of the boys in blue. No me. But someone.

This is rediculous. 99.99% of westerners are of positive benefit to Thailand. Money, jobs, expertise, and a bit of humour. Maybe cutting the Thai bureacracy is the best way of helping the Kingdom?

Is it really a problem that some folk on tourist visas stay here as permanent residents? In Isan there are way more than a few farang looking after a Thai family (and half the village). How about these guys leave, and the Thai gov take over?

The Thai visa situation (not the website, let me hasten to clarify) is a jumble mess, where lots of interested parties make a living, but at the expense of a great deal of wasted effort. Thailand is not the only country in this situation, but it is where we are. How about a fundamental change to the visa system. Pay as you go, pay at a 711 or police station. Just a thought.

Maybe you should leave the farm and come to a tourist area. You will see many, many non-thais working, quite often illegally, as divemasters, tourguides, English teachers, etc. And as mentioned earlier, many of those are Asians, not westerners, who will therefor be hit much harder by this (if they continue with this check of course).

[Som wat]

Education, work, business, volunteering, retirement, marriage, parenthood, tourism... nope not enough. Can just show up and get 30 days without any visa? No, not good enough. We want to LIVE here!

Well okay, will you work? no. Study? no! Business? No! Are you married? no! A Parent? No! Volunteer? No! Any sort of right at all to just come and live here? No! We're White Westerners, we can do what we want in any country we choose to grace with our presence.

How dare they stop these people from abusing a system designed for tourists.

Blah blah blah. You must be with the Tourist Police.

Nope.

I just respect the right of every country to set their own immigration laws as they see fit. Then to enforce them as they see fit.

There are a number of visa options for a host of different reasons, as they see fit for people wanting to stay here.

That they dare to not allow the superior White Man who has decided that he is going to live here without legally working, studying, conducting business, marrying, parenting, volunteering, retiring, etc. to abuse the Tourist Visa system that they have enabled for tourists to enjoy their holidays here obviously create a big loss of ego, and resulting anger from the superior Western white men.

I mean, how f#%king dare they! Don't they know how important you are!

[KarenBravo]

You're the only one banging on about the superior white man syndrome. A case of projection?

[Som wat]

You're the only one banging on about the superior white man syndrome. A case of projection?

Actually it's written all over this thread.

They just know that they're writing it.

[ALFREDO]

As far as i understand you are a thai. It is with bleeding heart I must teel you, i feel you don't welcome me. I'm below 50 years early retired from my home country and have 160000 baht every month. I'm not a drinker, don't work here and I'm still not able to get a visa in Thailand and has to go to my home country every year to get a new visa. So is my money not value and benefit to Thailand.

You fail to say how you obtain your 160000 baht per month and how long you can sustain this income or savings or whatever form you have this money?

What type of visa do you think the authorities should give you for presently having 160000 per month baht at your disposal?

There are ways and means to stay in Thailand under 50.

Find employment and get a job that entitles you to a Non-Imm 'B' visa and a work permit.

Study Thai for 16 hours a week and go for a Non-Imm 'O/ED' Visa (not allowed to work), which can be extended in various ways.

Invest 40,000,000 Baht in Thailand or in a Thai bank account.

Marry a Thai lady and obtain a Non-Imm 'O' based on marriage (need to show 400k in a Thai bank in your sole name or an income of 40k/month which you alleged you have well sorted).

Start your own company with BOI approval.

Start a company with the required Thai directors and shareholders.

Do a TEFL course and take on a voluntary teaching job (unpaid) at least 4 hours a week via a licensed foundation (like SEETEFL's

Become a monk.

You forget the possibility, make a child with a Thai national, register as father, take care the child and live with it,

and extend your Non Immigrant O with 400.000 baht shown in Bank to one year.

[duanebigsby]

This is the twenty first century. Many people are now making their living on the internet, making their money from other countries and living in Thailand spending their money. These people have no legal means of living in Thailand. Even if they are on a non immigrant O visa, they are still breaking the law, because they don't have a work permit. Thailand should welcome these people. They are not taking jobs from Thais. Most of them make a lot of money and thus spend a lot of money in Thailand helping the economy. Quite a few live in rural areas where their contribution to the economy is well appreciated. Thailand should change their immigration procedures welcoming these people. They should issue work permits for working on the internet and issue non immigrant B visas for this purpose. If the individuals can show proof that they have brought an appropriate amount of money into the country they should get an extension of stay visa. Thailand should also offer an extension of stay visa for the purpose of retirement to any age level if they meet the financial requirements. Many people are inheriting large sums of money from their parents and are retiring early. These people want to live in warm country and many choose Thailand, but have no way of getting a legal visa.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Those who are working online without permits, meaning they are also not paying tax or legally employing Thai staff, are of no benefit to the country whatsoever. In fact these illegal workers are benefiting by living in Thailand cheaper than in their own countries, plus bypassing all the encumbrances of registering and running companies in the West.

Reading the OP I gather that the exploits of the eternal tourists are now going to be under more scrutiny and whether these people are given extended visas or not is going to be under the discretion of the Immigration officers.

I have nothing against the Westerners that are working and living here legally, but those who are not have no entitlements to be in Thailand. Many Westerners under 50 years old can legally live and work in Thailand, providing they meet the imposed conditions as imposed by the Immigration department, for example skilled engineers, fully qualified teachers and so on. Otherwise it`s a case of being here under false pretences. Hoping that eventually all these people will be weeded out, they are not wanted here.

So by your logic tourists are of no benefit to Thailand either, because they don't pay tax or employ Thai staff? They come here to spend money which they earned in another country, the same as someone working online without a work permit.

It's your opinion that we're not wanted here, not one widely shared. I'm sure my Thai landlord and all of the other places I spend money in Thailand are quite happy to have me here.

That's comparing apples and oranges. The tourist isn't working here and isn't using nearly the infrastructure in their 2 weeks holiday as a resident does while living here. That tourist has also paid entrance and exit taxes at the airport for their vacation, not to mention the foreigner prices at national parks etc.

Of course the tourist is a benefit to the economy, but if you live and work in a country, internet or not, you pay taxes.

I agree there should be an easy to obtain, single operator internet work permit allowing you to be legal and get a work permit. I also agree with those saying young wealthy people should be able to get retirement visas. But I have to ask, do you pay taxes to any country?

[stevenl]

As far as i understand you are a thai. It is with bleeding heart I must teel you, i feel you don't welcome me. I'm below 50 years early retired from my home country and have 160000 baht every month. I'm not a drinker, don't work here and I'm still not able to get a visa in Thailand and has to go to my home country every year to get a new visa. So is my money not value and benefit to Thailand.

You fail to say how you obtain your 160000 baht per month and how long you can sustain this income or savings or whatever form you have this money?

What type of visa do you think the authorities should give you for presently having 160000 per month baht at your disposal?

There are ways and means to stay in Thailand under 50.

Find employment and get a job that entitles you to a Non-Imm 'B' visa and a work permit.

Study Thai for 16 hours a week and go for a Non-Imm 'O/ED' Visa (not allowed to work), which can be extended in various ways.

Invest 40,000,000 Baht in Thailand or in a Thai bank account.

Marry a Thai lady and obtain a Non-Imm 'O' based on marriage (need to show 400k in a Thai bank in your sole name or an income of 40k/month which you alleged you have well sorted).

Start your own company with BOI approval.

Start a company with the required Thai directors and shareholders.

Do a TEFL course and take on a voluntary teaching job (unpaid) at least 4 hours a week via a licensed foundation (like SEETEFL's

Become a monk.

You forget the possibility, make a child with a Thai national, register as father, take care the child and live with it,

and extend your Non Immigrant O with 400.000 baht shown in Bank to one year.

See post # 126

[alocacoc]

"crimes committed by foreigners in Thailand"

As opposed to the crimes committed by Thais, in Thailand

"the number of tourists who are thought to be working illegally"

I really don't see many westerners taking Thai jobs. Do you want to work on the farm.

Still, someone told me, that for 50b, a Burmese can cross the river into Thailand, curtesy of the boys in blue. No me. But someone.

This is rediculous. 99.99% of westerners are of positive benefit to Thailand. Money, jobs, expertise, and a bit of humour. Maybe cutting the Thai bureacracy is the best way of helping the Kingdom?

Is it really a problem that some folk on tourist visas stay here as permanent residents? In Isan there are way more than a few farang looking after a Thai family (and half the village). How about these guys leave, and the Thai gov take over?

The Thai visa situation (not the website, let me hasten to clarify) is a jumble mess, where lots of interested parties make a living, but at the expense of a great deal of wasted effort. Thailand is not the only country in this situation, but it is where we are. How about a fundamental change to the visa system. Pay as you go, pay at a 711 or police station. Just a thought.

Maybe you should leave the farm and come to a tourist area. You will see many, many non-thais working, quite often illegally, as divemasters, tourguides, English teachers, etc. And as mentioned earlier, many of those are Asians, not westerners, who will therefor be hit much harder by this (if they continue with this check of course).

This could be very easily solved....if Police and Immigration officers would do their job instead of opening their hands and wait for some tea money. If the authorities seriously want to crack down the foreigner criminals, i suggest do your job, but first do window dressing in your own lines and get rid off of the corrupt officials.

Exactly the same procedure would be helpful in context to road safety.

Instaed of all them, they try from time to time to impede the visa rules. It's ironic, that those measures just the criminals don't affect.

In the news they speak about skimmers and credit card fraudsters. As we know from the daily news, this criminals are able to send millions of Baht to abroad. Only after a few week... and somebody think really, they are not able to obtain a proper visa, or the harsher visa rules would stop them to do waht they do? I guess it's harder to move large amount of money out of the country then to apply for a proper visa.

[ALFREDO]

See post # 126

=stevenl=

I referred to -Beetlejuice- post, not to the whole thread or to post 126.

[stevenl]

See post # 126

=stevenl=

I referred to -Beetlejuice- post, not to the whole thread or to post 126.

You're right, the option you missed was mentioned by somebody else, not beetlejuise, in post # 126.

[Bangel72]

I thought I'd throw in a simple solution.

After the 30/90 days whatever tourist visa, allow a 5000 baht monthly visa from any local police station registering contactable and check-able address etc.

Introduce a 10k straight forward 6 month freelancer work permit that can be used with the monthly general visa with personal and not company tax registration requirements provided income does not exceed a certain limit.

Seems like a win/win to me.

[oldsailor35]

Learn Thai or English and get an ED visa with Walen School. No more visa runs. We have thousands of happy customers. We can help you too.

It seems the authorities want to rid parts of LOS from foreign riff raff that are making problems and you are advertising a fix for the folk WE want to get rid of......

So why is he allowed to carry on in business here.

[oldsailor35]

Immigration has got it so very wrong here.

Criminals come to Thailand because there are lots and lots of police but zero policing.

The proper fix here is to get police to do their job. That is, prevent crime.

Trying to address a crime problem with randomly applied visa restrictions is like trying to play snooker with a tennis racket.

But that's how they do it in Thailand, did'nt you know.

[oldsailor35]

" Set up a company, pay 4 lucky Thai;s 1000thb per month and you are legal. Stop complaining.."

There are other company costs. Friend has a house in a company name, no other assets, and he pays around 15,000 baht a year in accounts fees for company document lodgement. Also, dont you have to show capital of 1 million baht for each employee?

lf so that is another 4 million required

Depends where you are , thats's a different bar girl each week.

[oldsailor35]

btw. the pic in this article of myanmar office in sea is OLD! they finally have a new office ;-)

Does it still work out cheaper and more comfortable to do the Club Andaman visa run than those open long tail boat runs open to all weather ?

[asia212]

This is the twenty first century. Many people are now making their living on the internet, making their money from other countries and living in Thailand spending their money. These people have no legal means of living in Thailand. Even if they are on a non immigrant O visa, they are still breaking the law, because they don't have a work permit. Thailand should welcome these people. They are not taking jobs from Thais. Most of them make a lot of money and thus spend a lot of money in Thailand helping the economy. Quite a few live in rural areas where their contribution to the economy is well appreciated. Thailand should change their immigration procedures welcoming these people. They should issue work permits for working on the internet and issue non immigrant B visas for this purpose. If the individuals can show proof that they have brought an appropriate amount of money into the country they should get an extension of stay visa. Thailand should also offer an extension of stay visa for the purpose of retirement to any age level if they meet the financial requirements. Many people are inheriting large sums of money from their parents and are retiring early. These people want to live in warm country and many choose Thailand, but have no way of getting a legal visa.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree with this completely. I work from my computer running online stores. All I need is quality internet. Thailand does have great internet but all this visa business makes it a drag to settle in for several months at a time. Where as in the Philippines I can pay for my extension and not have to spend money traveling back and forth for the same stamp.

But what is most important to this converstation is why create these rules to filter out the worst offenders who are ultimately a small fraction of westerners in Thailand? I would gladly pay a few hundred dollars for the ability to stay and not have to spend the same money on flying or driving somewhere just to get a stamp. Once I fly out I'm staying where ever I land at least for a month or more and Thailand loses my money.

It would seem like all the South East Asian countries should start thinkng about how to attract long term people like me who make middle class western wages working from their computer. Just as Western countries court the brightest minds to live in their countries, these countries should at least make it possible for us not so bright but self sufficient types to easily spend extended time spending money in their country and after a year or so if they lay down roots pay more taxes.

As for income tax. While I agree paying local tax if staying for years makes sense. If I'm not recieving state subsidiized medical care and actually paying full fare for that service I think the country is benefitting from that. Furthermore if I'm not being a burden on society, not sending kids to school or anything like that. I don't see how I am negatively impacting these countries by spending my money here.

I'm in Thailand now but as soon as my 30 visa runs out I'm leaving. I tried getting an extended visa in the last country I was in but that was only possible if I had a work visa for that country. So the hell with it. My US Passport gets me anywhere. If Thailand is so concerned I'm stealing a local's job by spending money here, I can go somewhere else and come back as I please. My job remains the same ATM's everywhere all I need is internet.

[transam]

Learn Thai or English and get an ED visa with Walen School. No more visa runs. We have thousands of happy customers. We can help you too.

What about the recent news that the Ministry of Education wants applicants to show details of all trips to Thailand for the previous 2 years?

have you had any issues with that?

I like to work on specific cases. I can assure everybody that Walen School will take the very best care of every applicant.

I think we know that............