Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[bangkoklasse]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

Yep, can I go live in the us or uk too for $30 per month. Let's open that one up to everyone. Given that it is rational and modern and all that...

You can do it for free if your from the EU.

No you can't do that

[retell]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

Yep, can I go live in the us or uk too for $30 per month. Let's open that one up to everyone. Given that it is rational and modern and all that...

You can do it for free if your from the EU.

No you can't do that

For sure cannot for holland you need to have funds for 30 eu a day x the period you stay and a pile of paperwork translated legalised and so on , for non eu residents if you wanna do some work (good luck to find any) its even more papermache

[larsjohnsson]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

You don't understand, apparently. They aren't giving tourist visas to most people now. That began about a year or more ago. If you have ever had tourist visas before - REGARDLESS or their date (could be from years ago) they are denying tourist visas. When one finally figures out all the runaround and catch-22's of this, what it really indicates, is that a faction in Thialand doesn't want anyone here who is regulaly here, any longer. From now on, it seems, tourists are to only be allowed 30 days, period.

That is NOT true. I know many people that have got 2,3,4 tourist visas in the last years

[brewsterbudgen]

Pray tell me, will these new tourist border runners restrictions affect people from Laos for instance ?

Good question. I've asked it already on this thread, and on another similar thread, but so far no answer...

from laos they get a sort of borderpass that allows them to stay in thailand for ?? Days , same for thai that go there ,they do not get a visa as we do .for tourist purpose that is , there are many that get visas for working in thailand

That's for Lao citizens who don't have a passport (same for Thais who can get 3 days in Laos with a border pass). But until now (perhaps) Lao citizens with a passport have been able to get stamped in at a land border for 30 days on an unlimited basis. Many Laos take advantage of this.

[samran]

Gotta say, I'm more happy about this than yinglick getting shafted the other day.

Why? Is it because you were not happy with the latter (i.e. totally irrelevant to this thread) - or that you are happy that some people were not luckily enough to have a Thai parent like you, and will be hurt by this - only financially off course, they will just switch to tourist visas, so will still not go home? In short are you being an off-topic opportunist, or a vindictive bar steward?

I'm happy that immigration have decided to do their job if you must know. Too many people taking the piss doing visa runs. Good on them if they want to get a tourist visa at an embassy. I hope that a parallel edict is given to stop people taking the piss with those visas as well.

You - and plenty of others - seem to confuse my want to have a nation of stonger rules with some sort of xenaphobia. I'd be happy with more people working in Thailand. Bring it on. Want to retire - got no problem with that either.

I'd be happy if people who married a Thai could work and live here indefinitely without the annual paperwork. Remember - I am married to a non- Thai citizen too and still have to go through the system every 90 days and then once a year for an extension.

And this tells me two things - to go via that route isn't very hard, and if I am going through it, why shouldn't others?

[wolf5370]

This is big news that will affect a lot of people.

Kudos to Thai visa for getting the info out there.

I wouldn't fancy being a border runner right now - that said, going in and out of Thailand every 30 days means you aren't a tourist anyway and are probably milking the system.

Immigration seem to be on one at the moment!

You are not referring to Thailand's generous social welfare system?

I said it before and I will say it again.....First they came for the bottomfeeders....

Eventually everyone will get shafted.

Out of likes or this would get one! +1

[Triglav]

If you are working, regardless if through the internet, you should have a work permit. That would entitle you benefits of staying in Thailand without having to do the 30-day Out/In runs.

As far as I'm aware, work permit requires applicant to 1) hold a Non-Immigrant Visa (which I can't receive without breaking a law) and 2) have supporting documents from a Thai business employing said foreigner.

There was some talk about new kind of work permits for e-lancers a while ago, but nothing happened.

A tourist, in most people's mind, is a short-time visitor to a location. Thailand offers multiple-entry Tourist Visas (typically 2 Visas).

...

This gives a total of 120 days (approximately 4 months).

That's my point, tourist need not be equal to holidaymaker.

Personally, my priority is not getting to live as long as possible in Thailand on tourist visas, it's methodically traveling the region (a trip at least once a month). Thailand serves as a launchpad, not a destination.

[samran]

Pray tell me, will these new tourist border runners restrictions affect people from Laos for instance ?

Good question. I've asked it already on this thread, and on another similar thread, but so far no answer...

from laos they get a sort of borderpass that allows them to stay in thailand for ?? Days , same for thai that go there ,they do not get a visa as we do .for tourist purpose that is , there are many that get visas for working in thailand

That's for Lao citizens who don't have a passport (same for Thais who can get 3 days in Laos with a border pass). But until now (perhaps) Lao citizens with a passport have been able to get stamped in at a land border for 30 days on an unlimited basis. Many Laos take advantage of this.

And they may be affected too. It will force their employers to out them on special non immigrant LA visas for people from neighbouring countries under the migrant labour scheme. It is hardly an effort to do so, and puts these people into the Thai system for health care and social protection while they work here.

[larsjohnsson]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. Only people who live in Thailand do that. It's not at all about making it more difficult for tourists

(A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. ) this is a bad assumption, lots of Tourist I know have thai DL and renew if need next time they come on holiday, you need to post correctly (Facts)and not just assumptions.

Then they are not the "normal average tourist" . You need to post correctly (facts)

[Elfin]

Again, I ask the question.

What does ONCE mean? Once every month, 3 months, 6 months, year, ilfetime????

[larsjohnsson]

This is pretty bad for all the backpackers. Especially once Airlines are affected too.

When I first got here, I did quite a few visa runs like that.

Sure backpackers can go out and get a tourist visa and that's probably long enough to do all the traveling they like to do. But it's an additional hassle and I know I myself - back then - would not have put up with it, I'd just have visited Laos or Vietnam or whatever.

So this will prevent some legitimate travelers from traveling in Thailand. Is that the intention?

You can get double or triple tourist visa also if you are a backpacker. That will cover their trips to Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Someone in Thailand with a Thai driving license is not a tourist.

[MikeandDow]

A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. Only people who live in Thailand do that. It's not at all about making it more difficult for tourists

(A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. ) this is a bad assumption, lots of Tourist I know have thai DL and renew if need next time they come on holiday, you need to post correctly (Facts)and not just assumptions.

Then they are not the "normal average tourist" . You need to post correctly (facts)

forget it waste of time and your post is not on topic

[retell]

A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. Only people who live in Thailand do that. It's not at all about making it more difficult for tourists

(A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. ) this is a bad assumption, lots of Tourist I know have thai DL and renew if need next time they come on holiday, you need to post correctly (Facts)and not just assumptions.

Then they are not the "normal average tourist" . You need to post correctly (facts)

forget it waste of time and your post is not on topic[/quote

Renew dl , as a tourist , last time i did that renew they checked my passport first if i got the right visa ,o or b

Then needed to show where i stayed , company papers

Not so common for a tourist to being able to produce those

[wolf5370]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

I agree. I have always wondered the same. Why let all the money go the neighbouring countries. Just allow people to reregister every month at some immigration office (or licensed premises thereof) and be quids in. It makes no difference to working or not - illegal workers will find a way to do it - making them border run or overstay makes no difference and makes no profit for Thailand. If they registered each month and paid their 1000 baht each time, then there would be an address to do spot checks to see if they were working too. I would suggest many would be happy to do this - even more so if they got a booklet or card to hold the stamps/registration so as not to fill up the passports - would also make checking easier as it would be standard for all foreigners, unlike passports.

[wolf5370]

This will be a severe hardship for many Thai mini-bus drivers.

Up in Mae Sai, I'd say the entire town ( on the border ) depends on visa runners for it's prosperity. As would Green Line bus company to a minor extent, but they will be feeling it too.

Not forgetting the market on the Burmese side.

Wonder if they'll be putting up the border fees to compensate for loss of income?

I would think that both Mae Sai and Tachileik depend mostly on the Thai-Burmese cross-border trade for their prosperity. Considering that most traditional visa runners spend the absolute least possible amount of time in either towm, I doubt that their collective contribution to the local economy is all that much.

I disagree entirely. I know many people that do the run - some 90 day runners and some 30/15 day runners. They pretty much all use the occasion to stock up on stuff from the market - admittedly mostly booze, fake DVDs and sweets, but given the amount of runners there each and every day - this must add up, add he 500 baht per person, even if they just turn straight around and walk back mover the bridge. There is also the Green Bus Company - always around 50% of the seats are foreigners on the VIP bus doing runs. There is pretty much no other reason to go to Maesai or Taichilek - the odd backpacker is not likely to help much with the local economy (or buy anything in the market other than a coffee and a rotti) - hardly a place for "quality family tourists" now is it!

//Edit: The other mass transit group through Maesai is the Chinese gamblers going over to the casinos - with a 50+% drop in Chinese tourists, seems like even less a good idea!

[samran]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

I agree. I have always wondered the same. Why let all the money go the neighbouring countries. Just allow people to reregister every month at some immigration office (or licensed premises thereof) and be quids in. It makes no difference to working or not - illegal workers will find a way to do it - making them border run or overstay makes no difference and makes no profit for Thailand. If they registered each month and paid their 1000 baht each time, then there would be an address to do spot checks to see if they were working too. I would suggest many would be happy to do this - even more so if they got a booklet or card to hold the stamps/registration so as not to fill up the passports - would also make checking easier as it would be standard for all foreigners, unlike passports.

. 1000 baht per month for permission to stay in Thailand? You are taking the piss....

[wolf5370]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

Yep, can I go live in the us or uk too for $30 per month. Let's open that one up to everyone. Given that it is rational and modern and all that...

Chalk and cheese and irrelevant. UK is desirable for immigrants due to the welfare state - it costs money to the country for people staying there as they are able to claim benefits after a relatively short time - they can also apply for residency and citizenship based only on time in the country (sometimes even illegitimately so!) - USA and UK are both in the world's most wealthiest top 5 countries - none of that relates to expats living in Thailand.

Thailand requires foreign money from Visas, why else make these changes? They do nothing less than make some of the border runner move on to tourist visas instead. If visa money is the goal, then why not collect it in-country instead? 1000 baht for 3 moths tourist visa, with skim from consulate, or the same each and every month without the skim.

When the UK and USA make such changes in such a fashion, then you can start a separate thread - as it is there is no more relevancy than talking about the fact that Thai food is more expensive in LA than in Udon.

[wolf5370]

In case you need an ED visa Walen School provides most reliable service. Thousands of satisfied customers.

I think your business will pick up considerably soon.

Probably, and then everybody here complains, the ED-Visa is abused.

What's the correct Visa for someone, who lives on his Savings, is not yet 50 (retirement visa), does none business, volunteering, study, is there any????

Don't come now up, with the investment visa (requires 10 million, right). Who want to invest 10 million, in a country where the gov. changes twice a year

Why should there be a special visa for such a person? It's not like all people on the globe have a right to live in Thailand just because they like that. Try telling the Immigration in USA, UK, Norway or Germany if you are a foreigner, that you like to live in their country. But you don't like to work, invest, study or do anything. And you don't like to bring any big money because you don't like their Gov.

Meh, same old strawman argument - Thailand IS NOT "USA, UK, Norway or Germany" - it has no welfare system that is applicable to foreigners - no direct path to residency or citizenship based on length of stay - they have much more freedom once in the country too, easy to get jobs, work permits are more flexible, and so on.

[Arandora]

My wife and I come to Thailand every year on Non Imm O Retirees visas for 5 months every year for a long holiday. I hire a car for that period. To hire and drive it legally for over 60 days I am required to hold a Thai Driving Licence which I do. So I am a tourist with a Thai Driving Licence

[bangkoklasse]

My wife and I come to Thailand every year on Non Imm O Retirees visas for 5 months every year for a long holiday. I hire a car for that period. To hire and drive it legally for over 60 days I am required to hold a Thai Driving Licence which I do. So I am a tourist with a Thai Driving Licence

But it was the "normal average tourist"

And the normal average tourist don't have a non immigrant visa and stay 5 months. He/she either have a Tourist visa or no visa at all. Most tourist can't even apply or get the visa you have.

[wolf5370]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

I agree. I have always wondered the same. Why let all the money go the neighbouring countries. Just allow people to reregister every month at some immigration office (or licensed premises thereof) and be quids in. It makes no difference to working or not - illegal workers will find a way to do it - making them border run or overstay makes no difference and makes no profit for Thailand. If they registered each month and paid their 1000 baht each time, then there would be an address to do spot checks to see if they were working too. I would suggest many would be happy to do this - even more so if they got a booklet or card to hold the stamps/registration so as not to fill up the passports - would also make checking easier as it would be standard for all foreigners, unlike passports.

. 1000 baht per month for permission to stay in Thailand? You are taking the piss....

The border run is from just 500/mo (30 days for G7) - and all of it to the Burmese. Tourist Visa is anything from free to (I believe) about 1000 baht for the first 60 days, plus 30 day extension - thus 500 baht (assuming the extension is changed also - so ignoring that and simply 1000/60 * 30 for the first 2/3s). Make it too expensive an there is no incentive to be legal or simply to put up with doing the alternatives - all of which benefit the country less. So, no not taking the piss, being realistic - charge 5k/mo and very few would take it when there are cheaper alternatives - at that price even signing up for an ED visa course would be cheaper.

[seancbk]

Order of RTP No. 608/2549 dated September 8, 2006 Clause 3

Any holder of a passport or substitute passport whose nationality falls under the category for which the Minister permits a stay for tourism purposes, by consent of the Cabinet, shall, according to Clause 13(3) of the Ministerial Regulation Stipulating the Criteria, Procedures, and Conditions for verification, exemption, and change of Visa B.E 2545 (A.D 2002), dated August 16, 2002 be granted multiple entries. The permitted period of temporary stay foe each entry shall not exceed thirty days from the date of entry into the Kingdom. In addition, within a period of six months from the date of first entry into the Kingdom, the total period of temporary stay shall not exceed ninety days.

This was superceded by Order of RTP No. 777/2551 dated November 25, 2008.

This line "In addition, within a period of six months from the date of first entry into the Kingdom, the total period of temporary stay shall not exceed ninety days." Was removed from the new order (see attached)

[deepcell]

So fly in and out every 30 days won't be affected?

It will be effected in August 2014.

Correct.

It seems that as of 12 August border runs by air will also no longer be allowed.

So many tourists and people in general will start to look for another country to live, and Thailand will miss farang a lot.

[Chivas]

So after 12th August Visa Runs will not be available by Air as well..............So how long do you you need to be away from Thailand before presenting yourself again for a Visa Exempt entry......??

[wolf5370]

If it says same day - is staying the night over the border a viable alternative???

[Timwin]

Funny how those 50+ year old pompous "retirees" flood these crackdown threads with their schadenfreunde BS. What kind of retirement age is 50 years old anyway? Let's put it to 65 years like in the West and you hypocrites would start squealing like pigs about how unfair it is! You guys would be back to the regular visa runs...

[hawker9000]

...

I chose Thailand as a place to stay because it is both a 1) nice place to be in; and 2) requires relatively little bureaucratic hoop-jumping. I do consider myself a long-term tourist: I do not intend to integrsocial/economicai society nor do I seek social/economic services above what a tourist would; my monthly spending is obviously above the local average. I do not own a home or a vehicle and I do not drive. Everything of significant value that I own in Thailand fits into a backpack - I know this because I pack all of it at least once a month when I go for a 3-5 day trip to some other country in the region. In a year or two I will be done and move on, maybe to another country in SEA, but likely to a country on another continent instead. And yes, I ended up staying on visa-exempt stamps because those are a nice incentive to keep me moving around and seem to fit best (both in letter and spirit) the kind of visitor that I am.

How do you support yourself in Thailand? Do you work (via the internet)?

If you are working, regardless if through the internet, you should have a work permit. That would entitle you benefits of staying in Thailand without having to do the 30-day Out/In runs.

A tourist, in most people's mind, is a short-time visitor to a location. Thailand offers multiple-entry Tourist Visas (typically 2 Visas).

You can use the first Tourist visa to get 30 days in the kingdom, of which you can then extend this by an additional 30 days (for 1900 baht, at the Immigration Dept.).

After these 60 days, you can perform the Out/In maneuver in a single day, and begin using your second Tourist visa... which can then be extended as well before it expires.

This gives a total of 120 days (approximately 4 months). How long is your vacation/holiday??

P.S. When the 120 days are up, you could always go to a neighboring country to apply for another Tourist Visa. Bingo... another 60 days!

So typical of the crap through which the rest of us are having to wade. A tourist visa is good for 60d, extendable by an additional 30d. Not 30d extendable by another 30d. That's per entry.

When you get a double-entry tourist visa, you may well only get a 90d validity window (dating from the issue date of the visa). If you get such a visa and such a 90d validity in a neighboring SE Asian country, and are able to therefore execute the first entry on the first day of the validity window, and then get the 30d extension, and then exit and return on the last day of the validity window, and finally get the 30d extension on the 2nd entry, then you can be in Thailand legally for a total of 180d (not 120d).

I'm not entirely clear on exactly where you can get triple-entry visas anymore (I believe UJ has mentioned Bali), but if your object is to remain in Thailand as long as possible on that single tourist visa, and the validity window is only going to be 90d, then I don't really see how useful the triple will actually be.

[Feesbay John]

Can you remember the song of John Lennon,,, Imagen,,, Listen to the word's,, all this is about is control and MONEY,,,,,,

[puukao]

All the socialist-minded backpackers must now become ruthless capitalists!!! Money will solve many problems. This law enforced will get more money from people who overstay. 500 a day is good income. watch that fine go to 1,000 a day. Definitely the max of 20k is way too low. I predict that will go to 100k.