Thailand visa: Crackdown banning 'walk-in visa runs' to begin August 13

[malcoml]

All I can say is that countries such as the Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, and Vietnam will benefit by Thailand enforcing these rules.

It is actually easier visa wise for me to maintain a permanent visa for my wife in Oz than it is for me to stuff round each year or pay an outlandish bribe to have a visa in Thailand.

[malcoml]

All I can say is that countries such as the Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, and Vietnam will benefit by Thailand enforcing these rules.

It is actually easier visa wise for me to maintain a permanent visa for my wife in Oz than it is for me to stuff round each year or pay an outlandish bribe to have a visa in Thailand.

[phuketrichard]

The 38-year old high-flyer in post #12 above, it seems, would have no problem flying back to the USA and getting a 6-month validity 3-entry tourist visa in person at a Thai Honorary consulate which would be good for up to 9 months stay with requisite exits and extensions.

or just flying to Bali

[larsjohnsson]

From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints including airports after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

** He is "functionally retired" (does not work) (but he is less than age 50)

** He currently flies in and out every 30 days; He stays one or two nights in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Bali, and he then returns through Swampy Boom, and he's been doing that for 5-years.

** He fits the profile that Thailand allegedly prefers - - Wealthy, clean-cut, dresses smartly, no tattoos, piercings, or other trashy appearance.

** On the other hand, he is not married. He rents a different high-end "escort" every so often, but he does not frequent bars. He doesn't precisely fit the negative "sex-pat" image.

** He does not drink, nor smoke, nor use drugs.

** He's never been in any trouble anywhere, zero criminal record.

What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

I suppose that he could use one of the many Thai Attorney Visa Services, and get a fresh one-year Non-O or Non-B every year, but that seems to really be illegal, given that most of these services mail your passport off to some Thai embassy for you.

Or, I suppose that he could form a Thai corporation, and pretend to work as a "consultant", and get a Work Permit, but again, he doesn't work, and he doesn't want to be forced into telling lies and cheating the system.

So - - What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

Thanks,

JD

He can always get a double or triple tourist visa.

[JLCrab]

The 38-year old high-flyer in post #12 above, it seems, would have no problem flying back to the USA and getting a 6-month validity 3-entry tourist visa in person at a Thai Honorary consulate which would be good for up to 9 months stay with requisite exits and extensions.

or just flying to Bali

The guy is an American citizen. If he wants to go this route for the next 12 years then I suggest there are far fewer variables just doing it in USA.

[happysanook]

Wait. It says foreigners will still be allowed 3 entries on visa exemption status. Weren't those banned a few days ago?

[skorchio]

Yes I must say I was surprised to read about this. I am affected by this, I am 39 yrs old, working all around the world, living in Thailand on visa-on-arrival for 11 yrs. I am a fly-in, fly-out global employee, and there are many of me here in Phuket. I am not married. So realistically I am not entitled to any form of non-immigrant visa, although I was able to obtain a non-O in the past when Thai Consulates were looser.

I have a lot to lose from this, if it continues to be enforced. I have a condo here, a car, 2 golfclub memberships. I have never worked here (I earn damn good money abroad), have no intention of ever working here, and I have to say I am concerned. My only hope is that this is just another short-lived weed-out of the teachers, tourguides and other oxygen thieves (timeshare sales) and in a few weeks we are back to business as usual.

[AJackson]

I don't really understand why people like the 38 year old friend of yours think they have or should have a right to stay just because they have a bit

of cash in the bank.

If he wanted to work, open a business and employ people, pay taxes and genuinely contribute in a meaningful way there would be legitimate routes to stay, and even PR and citizenship if he wanted it.

Too many people here seem to have the attitude - I have cash, am white, and therefore entitled.

What I don't understand is why you care. Is it a love of rules and some ethical philosophy that makes you feel like everyone should happily and without question follow the letter of the law? Do you think financially independent under 50 foreigners buying property and pumping 1-2 million baht each year into the Thai economy is a bad thing?

You seemingly feel like he is wrong for even thinking the Thai government should make some accommodation for financially independent people who aren't old enough for a retirement visa. Are you such a rule lover that you think it is wrong to hold the opinion that a law should change?

Do you think the only meaningful contribution someone can make is directly employing people and paying the government income taxes? His VAT tax adds nothing? The 1-2 million (or more) he pumps into the Thai economy doesn't contribute? You seemingly have an incredibly narrow view of what constitutes contributing in a meaningful way.

Seriously, why do you care?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the MFA content at the bottom of the OP article is probably simply outdated info that's never been corrected on the MFA website -- and not any indication that's going to be the new policy now, or that they're resurrecting that old policy for the present.

MFA doesn't set the rules for visa-exempt entries... Immigration does. So in all likelihood, MFA has simply never updated their website info re visa-exempt entries from years past when the 6 months standard was briefly in place.

MFA is so slow to update their websites, there's no way they've suddenly posted updated info on Immigration's latest enforcement shift just in the past week or so.

[daveAustin]

Chaps, this is fair enough, don't blame the Thais for wanting to clean shop and weed out undesirables, of which there are many. They just want you to get a visa and stop taking the p1ss; you could not get into most countries in the world without one. That they let folks in for free is, okay, largely about tourism revenue, but nevertheless it is also pretty generous. A tourist visits for a few weeks and travels around, he doesn't typically stay for years in one place (and possibly working without a permit).

Having said that, I am also guilty of bouncing borders (many moons ago hen no-one cared), but at the end of the day, it's no way to live and is not without risk. If you have ties here--houses, cars, etc--that's your issue, no-one asked you to do that so don't blame the Thais for implementing something that is already policy. I have to pay for my visa/extension to stay, so why not you?

[Greg Nixon]

The declaration is another way for the government to say. If you are a genuine tourist and nothing more you are welcome here. If you are not a tourist but are masquerading as one, you are not welcome here. Drug dealers, pimps, illegal workers, thieves and pick pockets, foreign prostitutes please leave. Those interfering with our politics please leave.

If you are retired with a retirement visa or if you have a working visa, you are welcome to stay. If you have a business visa we welcome you.

You know if you are here with legitimate interests or not.

If you do not have legitimate interests, please leave because you are giving the rest of us a bad name.

[gabruce]

From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints including airports after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

** He is "functionally retired" (does not work) (but he is less than age 50)

** He currently flies in and out every 30 days; He stays one or two nights in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Bali, and he then returns through Swampy Boom, and he's been doing that for 5-years.

** He fits the profile that Thailand allegedly prefers - - Wealthy, clean-cut, dresses smartly, no tattoos, piercings, or other trashy appearance.

** On the other hand, he is not married. He rents a different high-end "escort" every so often, but he does not frequent bars. He doesn't precisely fit the negative "sex-pat" image.

** He does not drink, nor smoke, nor use drugs.

** He's never been in any trouble anywhere, zero criminal record.

What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

I suppose that he could use one of the many Thai Attorney Visa Services, and get a fresh one-year Non-O or Non-B every year, but that seems to really be illegal, given that most of these services mail your passport off to some Thai embassy for you.

Or, I suppose that he could form a Thai corporation, and pretend to work as a "consultant", and get a Work Permit, but again, he doesn't work, and he doesn't want to be forced into telling lies and cheating the system.

So - - What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

Thanks,

JD

I don't really understand why people like the 38 year old friend of yours think they have or should have a right to stay just because they have a bit

of cash in the bank.

If he wanted to work, open a business and employ people, pay taxes and genuinely contribute in a meaningful way there would be legitimate routes to stay, and even PR and citizenship if he wanted it.

Too many people here seem to have the attitude - I have cash, am white, and therefore entitled.

You seriously think being white (if this person is) and being entitled is a common attitude? I don't encounter that attitude much, however I don't ever ask if that is what white people think.

The attitude that I have cash, I contribute to the local economy, I am a useful visitor/resident is, in my opinion, an okay attitude.

Yes, every country has the legal right to determine who they want to visit and who they want to allow to stay.

In my opinion, Thailand, and other countries around the world do well when they attempt to accommodate expat residents who contribute. Whether that is just living an expensive lifestyle here, working on the Internet (they should have a work permit for this), working outside the country etc. I think it would be good for the economy. Just an opinion.

[daveAustin]

From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints – including airports – after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

** He is "functionally retired" (does not work) (but he is less than age 50)

** He currently flies in and out every 30 days; He stays one or two nights in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Bali, and he then returns through Swampy Boom, and he's been doing that for 5-years.

** He fits the profile that Thailand allegedly prefers - - Wealthy, clean-cut, dresses smartly, no tattoos, piercings, or other trashy appearance.

** On the other hand, he is not married. He rents a different high-end "escort" every so often, but he does not frequent bars. He doesn't precisely fit the negative "sex-pat" image.

** He does not drink, nor smoke, nor use drugs.

** He's never been in any trouble anywhere, zero criminal record.

What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

I suppose that he could use one of the many Thai Attorney Visa Services, and get a fresh one-year Non-O or Non-B every year, but that seems to really be illegal, given that most of these services mail your passport off to some Thai embassy for you.

Or, I suppose that he could form a Thai corporation, and pretend to work as a "consultant", and get a Work Permit, but again, he doesn't work, and he doesn't want to be forced into telling lies and cheating the system.

So - - What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

Thanks,

JD

Yes, he probably is at risk. He could:

• go the Ed visa route by learning the language/culture at a local school.
• Invest and get himself a business visa.

But bud; as others have stated, he has no 'right' to stay here because of his status, just like a well-heeled Thai has no right to stay in the US for being moneyed up and educated. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Thaier than Thai wannabee, but why should the Thais bend over backwards?

[larsjohnsson]

He already flies in and out every 30 days. So just getting tourist visas he can do the same. Or even better only fly out every 90 days

[SICA]

Sorry - this may be really clear to some, but not me!

Is it possible for a tourist (a real, genuine tourist) from the countries listed on the included list of nationalities, to come to Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt stamp, leave Thailand, and re-enter to get a second 30 day stamp, and do that a maximum of 3 times?

The article is very confusing in this respect as at the beginning it states - "The news follows the appearance of a formal notice posted on Bangkok Immigration’s website on May 8 stating that any persons who exit Thailand after completing a stay in the Kingdom on tourist-visa exemption status* are to be refused re-entry to Thailand."

BUT at the end it states - "“Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry."

Apologies again if i'm misreading the article, i'm just genuinely confused

[connda]

The Thai Visa forum editor needs an emoticon of someone shooting themselves in the foot.

[onni4me]

It is always pretty clear in these threads that some who say they have dotted all i's and so forth, feel that they are more entitled to feel superiority over others. I hope Thai government will enforce new rules like 2 week course understanding Thai culture and people EVERY time one applies for a visa. No requirement seems to be silly enough so one should jump when asked to do so.

When living in a country with ones family bothering no-one, paying ones bills, never causing any trouble and minding ones own business, one is asked to show up every 3 months or do ridiculous amount of paperwork, I feel that one never really can call this place home.

After a decade it has become clear to me that I will not reside here forever. I still have feelings of being outsider. I have talked about this with my Thai family and we are leaving. In my country when completing the paperwork, there is no need for doing anything every 3 months. When you get your permanent residency OR get married, there is no limit for stay. And you are entitled for social security.

This is only to make more money from visa business. Thais seem to believe that tourists - Yes! There are genuine tourists also - like to spend few days traveling the area sitting in hot offices and waiting visas. My guess is that they rather choose somewhere else where it is easier.

Thailand IMHO has seen it's better days. Time to move on.

[PattayaPhom]

From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints – including airports – after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

** He is "functionally retired" (does not work) (but he is less than age 50)

** He currently flies in and out every 30 days; He stays one or two nights in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Bali, and he then returns through Swampy Boom, and he's been doing that for 5-years.

** He fits the profile that Thailand allegedly prefers - - Wealthy, clean-cut, dresses smartly, no tattoos, piercings, or other trashy appearance.

** On the other hand, he is not married. He rents a different high-end "escort" every so often, but he does not frequent bars. He doesn't precisely fit the negative "sex-pat" image.

** He does not drink, nor smoke, nor use drugs.

** He's never been in any trouble anywhere, zero criminal record.

What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

I suppose that he could use one of the many Thai Attorney Visa Services, and get a fresh one-year Non-O or Non-B every year, but that seems to really be illegal, given that most of these services mail your passport off to some Thai embassy for you.

Or, I suppose that he could form a Thai corporation, and pretend to work as a "consultant", and get a Work Permit, but again, he doesn't work, and he doesn't want to be forced into telling lies and cheating the system.

So - - What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

Thanks,

JD

investment visa

[ThaidDown]

The 38-year old high-flyer in post #12 above, it seems, would have no problem flying back to the USA and getting a 6-month validity 3-entry tourist visa in person at a Thai Honorary consulate which would be good for up to 9 months stay with requisite exits and extensions.

Or, as he is 'wealthy' he could deposit 10 mill baht in approved accounts and get an Investment Visa

Note money paid for a condo can be used as part of this investment, or all of it if the condo costs at least 10 mill.

[SymS]

From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints – including airports – after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

I think he can get an investment visa. He just needs to invest 10 million Baht in Thai government bonds and/or fixed deposits. See http://www.thaivisa.com/investment-visa.html

If you are wealthy you can stay nearly in any country you please.

[Expattaff1308]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.[/i]

How is that advice? Go home we don't need you here?

No, its come here spend all your money then we kick you out but only after we empty your pockets.

Isn't that what people do when they are on holiday, have fun spend their money then go home and save more for next time, you cant blame the Thais for that no one holds a gun to their head or indeed insist they come to Thailand to spend it!!

[jamhar]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

That was most probably the most hateful post I have read in a long time.

"Go Home"... are you serious.

Some people need to stick their "Godly" heads back up their...............

There have been a LOT more hateful posts here. Mostly by people that seem to feel they are entitled. Or one nationality bashing another.

It seems to me that the officials are trying to crack down on specific nationalities manipulating the Thai visa policies. Unfortunately because of that, all nationalities will be affected.

This will not significantly affect the Thai Tourist industry, and so will not affect the Thai economy to a great extent. So, no great desire to modify the new policies. Message? Learn to deal with it.

Hopefully those who successfully find a not too inconvenient method will post, so that others can take advantage.

But the message to me is clear, Where ever you go to get a new Visa, Make sure that country has a Thai Consulate, otherwise you risk not being able to return to Thailand from there. That is the key message I got out of it.

[Chicken George]

I have a visa extension for reason of retirement so this does not effect me directly. But maybe some of my friends or groups travelling over will be put off by the chance that they will not get in? Yes they can get a travel visa but lets face it last minute travel is then out the window and many people don't want to bother getting a visa and will not condider coming. I see this going away quickly or rethought and refined. But who knows. Next I do believe changes will be made to getting extensions to visas. More income higher age for reason of retirement but maybe easier to get a long stay visa for people who have funds. After all rich 30 or 40year olds are the ones they keep saying they want here.. My only one word of advice is make sure you don't make yourself too ccomfortable here and have a bolt hole or funds to go somewhere else.Having the biggest house and biggest car counts for nothing when it comes to extending your visa.

[JLCrab]

Anyone can plunk down roughly $300,000 for the investment extension. Still, it seems rather extravagant for someone with lots of time who can obviously afford the airline tickets back to their home country for the tourist visa.

[devaram]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

That was most probably the most hateful post I have read in a long time.

"Go Home"... are you serious.

Some people need to stick their "Godly" heads back up their...............

Its because the 30 day border runners are young guys that the girls want to be with for free so there is allot of jealousy from the old guys who have to pay up the wazoo for a young girl. In fact they cant even get a young girl anymore because lets face it young women are are attracted to young men not to old men. There was a time when mostly old guys came here but now there is allot of younger guys and the girls are hip to it.

Thailand is so desperately in need of more english teachers but they make it so difficult to get a job as an english teacher and so difficult to get a visa that many english teachers have to resort to visa running.

This is because the elites dont want the poor to get ahead when they should in fact hire anybody who is an english native and give them a fast track visa to fill the public schools with native english teachers instead of relying on a few Thai english teachers who cannot speak english properly the result being that no one who went to a public school can speak a word of english to the delight of the eletes who want to continue the exploitation of the poor. Many farangs who are rich take the side of the elites because they are after all here to exploit the poor in the same way and their racist viewpoint is probably not appreciated where they came from.

[biggles45]

". In my country when completing the paperwork, there is no need for doing anything every 3 months. When you get your permanent residency OR get married, there is no limit for stay. And you are entitled for social security."

Same in the Philippines, Resident Retirement Visa,is a LIFETIME visa, no reporting, no extensions, no exit permit. In six years I have never been to immigration office at all.

In Australia my friends Thai wife qualified for residency after two years here, she has medical coverage, never reports to anyone and can become a citizen and get an australian passport if she wants. A bit of a difference to the way her husband is treated by the Thai government !!

[MikeandDow]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

That was most probably the most hateful post I have read in a long time.

"Go Home"... are you serious.

Some people need to stick their "Godly" heads back up their...............

Its because the 30 day border runners are young guys that the girls want to be with for free so there is allot of jealousy from the old guys who have to pay up the wazoo for a young girl. In fact they cant even get a young girl anymore because lets face it young women are are attracted to young men not to old men. There was a time when mostly old guys came here but now there is allot of younger guys and the girls are hip to it.

Thailand is so desperately in need of more english teachers but they make it so difficult to get a job as an english teacher and so difficult to get a visa that many english teachers have to resort to visa running.

This is because the elites dont want the poor to get ahead when they should in fact hire anybody who is an english native and give them a fast track visa to fill the public schools with native english teachers instead of relying on a few Thai english teachers who cannot speak english properly the result being that no one who went to a public school can speak a word of english to the delight of the eletes who want to continue the exploitation of the poor. Many farangs who are rich take the side of the elites because they are after all here to exploit the poor in the same way and their racist viewpoint is probably not appreciated where they came from.

What a load of bullshXt if you can not post some thing sensible don't post at all.

[moe666]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.[/i]

How is that advice? Go home we don't need you here?

No, its come here spend all your money then we kick you out but only after we empty your pockets.

I love these post, I do not know which is better this one or the nail in the coffin. These types of post have been made for years but people still retire here and stay being married to a Thai. I guess the coffin will not float because of all of the nails in it.

[moe666]

". In my country when completing the paperwork, there is no need for doing anything every 3 months. When you get your permanent residency OR get married, there is no limit for stay. And you are entitled for social security."

Same in the Philippines, Resident Retirement Visa,is a LIFETIME visa, no reporting, no extensions, no exit permit. In six years I have never been to immigration office at all.

In Australia my friends Thai wife qualified for residency after two years here, she has medical coverage, never reports to anyone and can become a citizen and get an australian passport if she wants. A bit of a difference to the way her husband is treated by the Thai government !!

The thread is not about your country or the Philippines

[gabruce]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

That was most probably the most hateful post I have read in a long time.

"Go Home"... are you serious.

Some people need to stick their "Godly" heads back up their...............

Its because the 30 day border runners are young guys that the girls want to be with for free so there is allot of jealousy from the old guys who have to pay up the wazoo for a young girl. In fact they cant even get a young girl anymore because lets face it young women are are attracted to young men not to old men. There was a time when mostly old guys came here but now there is allot of younger guys and the girls are hip to it.

Thailand is so desperately in need of more english teachers but they make it so difficult to get a job as an english teacher and so difficult to get a visa that many english teachers have to resort to visa running.

This is because the elites dont want the poor to get ahead when they should in fact hire anybody who is an english native and give them a fast track visa to fill the public schools with native english teachers instead of relying on a few Thai english teachers who cannot speak english properly the result being that no one who went to a public school can speak a word of english to the delight of the eletes who want to continue the exploitation of the poor. Many farangs who are rich take the side of the elites because they are after all here to exploit the poor in the same way and their racist viewpoint is probably not appreciated where they came from.

work on your writing style. It's just barely humorous. You have the ideas, and just need to practice your presentation more. Thanks for trying to keep this forum light hearted.