Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[ATF]

 

I was just through the immigration Fast Track lane for business class at Suvarnabhumi. The officer was taking a long time with a middle-aged Japanese gentleman in front of me, discussions were going on, he began to get visibly upset, and then the immigration officer called a supervisor. More words were exchanged, and then all I heard from the immigration officer as he was led away by the supervisor was "but you don't have work permit or business visa!".

First time I have ever seen something like that in the Fast Track lane. Seemed to take a bit longer processing my entry, but I do have a work permit and business visa. Makes me wonder whether they are already doing added vigilance with air arrivals.

Last time I checked there were absolutely no Yakuza in Thailand.

 

How can you tell? All the youngsters have tattoos now.

David

The genuine article doesn't advertise.

[DrTuner]

I suspect a lot of Phuket business people have been complaining about the Russians who now appear to have a major presence in places like Karon.

It was not so long ago there was a major flare up over the Russian tour operators.

They are mentioned as one of the "target" groups. But why are Koreans mentioned too ?

Lots of Koreans working illegally, and they get 90 days visa exempt. So if they are extending by a border run, so getting another visa exempt entry, they are staying as a tourist 90+ consecutive days.

I don't remember seeing Koreans working here .. what are they actually doing ? In BKK or where ? Russians obviously have a lot of travel agencies, restaurants and so on.

[ATF]

I suspect a lot of Phuket business people have been complaining about the Russians who now appear to have a major presence in places like Karon.

It was not so long ago there was a major flare up over the Russian tour operators.

They are mentioned as one of the "target" groups. But why are Koreans mentioned too ?

Lots of Koreans working illegally, and they get 90 days visa exempt. So if they are extending by a border run, so getting another visa exempt entry, they are staying as a tourist 90+ consecutive days.

And they are always causing trouble on the golf course and corrupting Thai teenagers with their KPOP.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So the question now is how many times a year am I allowed to come to Thailand and stay for 10-20 days?

How long must I stay out between each arrival? How many total days a year am I allowed in LOS?

Those are VERY good questions right about now.

Before this past week, I and I suspect others would have said, pretty much unlimited visa-exempt entries, particularly if you had decent gaps between them and were arriving via air as opposed to land border.

But now, with whatever this new enforcement by Immigration just getting underway re visa-exempt entries, I think it's going to take some time before anyone can know just how this is going to shake out.

The sporadic arrivals pattern you describe above isn't one that Immigration is supposed to be going after. But, that doesn't mean you might not get caught up in hassles that supposedly were intended for other targets.

[PHP87]

BTW, does the area North of the Chiang Mai airport near CM University get a lot of noise due to take-offs and landings? (The area around Chiang Mai Outer Ring Road and Huai Kaeo Road intersection.)

I've seen some nice, inexpensive rental apartments/condos in that area and was wondering if airport traffic noise is a factor.

It can do yes, its on the flightpath quite commonly..

Both the south side and north side of the airport have noise.

Thanks. I kind of thought so.

My situation is that if I retire at 62, Social Security won't pay me quite enough to meet the monthly minimum for a Retirement Visa.

If I wait until I'm 66 or 67, and assuming no cuts to SS and hopefully the retirement monthly minimum won't go up by then, I will be able to meet/exceed the monthly minimum but the monthly requirements will probably go up by then and SS might get cut as well, so I will likely waste 4-5 years waiting and then still not meet the minimum monthly requirement.

Not to mention, I want to retire and leave the US at age 62 even though I live in the SF Bay Area which is a very nice place to live, but also very expensive which makes it nearly impossible to save any money, although I have some "seed" money put away for the big move and continue to save money when I can.

A basic 1 Bdrm Apt here in a decent/good, low-crime neighborhood will set you back about $2000 a month while a similar Apt in CM will cost about 1/10th of that from what I've seen from online ads and corresponding with Expats on Thai forums.

I'm also looking into making extra money online, but 95% of the schemes look more like scams.

I have yet to visit the LOS, but will eventually take a 28 day trip to get a feel for things.

I have read and studied so much about Chiang Mai I feel like I already know my way around the City and it is at the top of my retirement list, but that may change once I spend some time in Thailand.

I will then likely go for the ED Visa which must be applied for outside of Thailand, usually from your home Country and then get the maximum 3 year ED Visa.

By then, I should have no problem finding a beautiful young Thai wife.

If not, I'll return to the US and reapply for language school and learn Spanish for another 3 years.

But seriously, I think the legit language schools are an inexpensive way to stay in country for up to 3 years and learn Thai while you're at it.

I don't drink or smoke, so I won't be hanging out at bars (except for the occasional visit to the naughty bars!) and won't spending money on booze and smokes, so I will be looking to do something useful with my time and perhaps even meet some decent Expats at language school.

One thing that irks me about US immigrants is that most have no interest in assimilating or even learning basic English.

I would not want to live in a country where I can't speak the language somewhat fluently in addition to reading/writing the language.

I would feel helpless having to depend on others to translate basics for me as I'm a very independent person, plus it greatly reduces your odds of getting taken advantage of. And once I learn Thai, the only people that will need to know will be those that I trust.

Let others think I'm a farang tourist that doesn't understand the locals when they speak poorly about me in my presence, or worse, talk about scamming me.

For those currently doing Visa runs, they will have to leave the country to apply for language school and that process can take about 4-6 weeks, if not longer.

And if someone has a lot of re-entry stamps on their passport, immigration may deny them so a lot of Expats may be headed to the Phils or elsewhere as language school may not be an option, and even if they return to their home country and apply, Thai immigration will see all the re-entry stamps on their passport.

There are some places in the Phils I would consider but most I wouldn't.

I have an older friend living on the Island of Cebu about 75 miles South of Cebu City on the beach with a much younger wife and he is very happy, but other than the numerous Islands and beaches, Thailand is a better choice IMO although there are places in the Phils that are included in my "Plan B" where I would live.

If Thai officials are trying to rid the Country of the riff-raff, I think they are going about it the wrong way.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My situation is that if I retire at 62, Social Security won't pay me quite enough to meet the monthly minimum for a Retirement Visa.

If I wait until I'm 66 or 67, and assuming no cuts to SS and hopefully the retirement monthly minimum won't go up by then, I will be able to meet/exceed the monthly minimum but the monthly requirements will probably go up by then and SS might get cut as well, so I will likely waste 4-5 years waiting and then still not meet the minimum monthly requirement.

Not to mention, I want to retire and leave the US at age 62 even though I live in the SF Bay Area which is a very nice place to live, but also very expensive which makes it nearly impossible to save any money, although I have some "seed" money put away for the big move and continue to save money when I can.

If you were to be "close" to meeting the current 65,000 baht per month income requirement for a retirement extension of stay, based on your Social Security at age 62, you could always use the "combo" method of meeting Immigration's financial requirement by placing the shortfall amount of funds on deposit in a Thai bank account (assuming you had some cash available).

Doing that would at least get you into the retirement extension game earlier/sooner. That way, if Thai Immigration were to change/raise the financial requirements at some point in the future, hopefully they'd stick with past patterns and grandfather in those who are already holding existing retirement extensions of stay under their existing financial requirements. Although, there's certainly no guarantee that they would in fact do that...

[PHP87]

My situation is that if I retire at 62, Social Security won't pay me quite enough to meet the monthly minimum for a Retirement Visa.

If I wait until I'm 66 or 67, and assuming no cuts to SS and hopefully the retirement monthly minimum won't go up by then, I will be able to meet/exceed the monthly minimum but the monthly requirements will probably go up by then and SS might get cut as well, so I will likely waste 4-5 years waiting and then still not meet the minimum monthly requirement.

Not to mention, I want to retire and leave the US at age 62 even though I live in the SF Bay Area which is a very nice place to live, but also very expensive which makes it nearly impossible to save any money, although I have some "seed" money put away for the big move and continue to save money when I can.

If you were to be "close" to meeting the current 65,000 baht per month income requirement for a retirement extension of stay, based on your Social Security at age 62, you could always use the "combo" method of meeting Immigration's financial requirement by placing the shortfall amount of funds on deposit in a Thai bank account (assuming you had some cash available).

Doing that would at least get you into the retirement extension game earlier/sooner. That way, if Thai Immigration were to change/raise the financial requirements at some point in the future, hopefully they'd stick with past patterns and grandfather in those who are already holding existing retirement extensions of stay under their existing financial requirements. Although, there's certainly no guarantee that they would in fact do that...

Yeah, I thought of that but it's hard to save money where I live due to the high cost of living and I will have about 20-25k USD as "seed" money to "set up shop" in Thailand and the remaining 15-20k set aside for emergencies and can't afford to have it sitting in the bank for immigration where I can't access it.

Plane ticket, cost of school, cost of renting (1st, last, deposit) buying a scooter, buying furnishings as needed, clothing as needed, unexpected expenses, unexpected medical expenses, etc...

I should be able to save some money while living in Thailand, so it's possible that I can deposit the 25k that's required for a retirement Visa after 3 years or so while still having money left over for emergencies and unexpected expenses, but I want to get out of the US and start collecting SS at 62 instead of waiting until I'm 67 or so.

And there are no guarantees that I will live long enough for either scenario, which is another reason why I want to retire as early ASAP and move to the LOS. You never know when your clock is going to strike midnight although I'm in relatively good health.

I might also move out of the SF Bay Area in the near future to save more money as the cost of housing/rent here is astronomical and I'm still a few years away from retirement, so moving to Idaho, Oregon or Nevada would save me about $700 a month that I could bank and have enough for the retirement Visa deposit in a few years, but I have all my friends and family here but I'm going to be leaving here eventually, so maybe I'll just be leaving here sooner than later, but still staying in the US

Worst case scenario would be getting an ED Visa which isn't the worst thing in the world as it's not much money and will more than pay for itself as I see it as an investment in my best interest as well as a way to stay in the LOS without hassle for 3 years.

Until I marry that young, beautiful, rich Thai girl.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yeah, I thought of that but it's hard to save money where I live due to the high cost of living and I will have about 20-25k USD as "seed" money to "set up shop" in Thailand and the remaining 15-20k set aside for emergencies and can't afford to have it sitting in the bank for immigration where I can't access it.

Just remember, when using the full bank deposit or partial combo method of meeting Immigration's financial requirement, the required funds (800,000 or a portion thereof for the combo method) don't have to stay in the Thai bank account all year. You can access those funds if they're in a regular savings account, and even in some varieties of time deposits.

Depending on the situation, the required "seasoning" is only two or three months ahead of time for each annual retirement extension using the full 800,000 baht amount (two months for the first application and three months thereafter). And if I recall correctly, there's supposedly no advance seasoning requirement for bank funds when used with the combo (monthly income and bank deposit) method, though apparently a few Immigration offices still insist those deposited funds be "seasoned" as well.

Edited May 15, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[shaurene]

Just curious as to what are the visa running tourists doing in Thailand? Are they just living here on a foreign income or working illegally?

The majority are here to live away from there previous home, due to a number of reasons,

1: They have a Thai partner they live with.

2: Their other home land is to cold or expensive to live if they are on a pension.

3: They are married to a Thai partner.

4: They are retired and want to live there last days in a country like Thailand.

All normal reasons.

[tropo]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Yes, that is absolutely right. ED visa will become very popular now. Just in case anybody needs help with their visas please contact Walen School or PM me.

don't you mean if anybody wants to study thai language (at a respectable educational establishment that provides the appropriate visas for its students) they should contact you??!!...

One thing is for sure.. No matter what my visa class, or need for a visa, or desire to learn thai.. The one place I would never go to is Walen, simply because of the spammy way the operator uses the forums.

Some people need a netiquette lesson and to realize that you can lose a target audience that way.

If I was looking for an education visa, Walen is the first place I'd go. The people constantly whinging about his promotion on here are the people who never need one of those visas and just like nagging. I'm surprised admin doesn't delete all these whining posts.

[Jay Sata]

The Russians and Koreans are targeted but let's face it Europeans are the biggest culprits for running business's in Thailand on tourist visas. The whole visa run business revolves around these people who enter Thailand on tourist visas and rubber stamp them.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post about "Yanks"

[stevenl]

The Russians and Koreans are targeted but let's face it Europeans are the biggest culprits for running business's in Thailand on tourist visas. The whole visa run business revolves around these people who enter Thailand on tourist visas and rubber stamp them.

You don't notice them as much, but many, many Korean, Japanese, Russian and these days also Chinese businesses. And looking here at the area (Phuket), Europeans tend to be much more legal than the Koreans etc.

[PHP87]

One thing is for sure.. No matter what my visa class, or need for a visa, or desire to learn thai.. The one place I would never go to is Walen, simply because of the spammy way the operator uses the forums.

Some people need a netiquette lesson and to realize that you can lose a target audience that way.

If I was looking for an education visa, Walen is the first place I'd go. The people constantly whinging about his promotion on here are the people who never need one of those visas and just like nagging. I'm surprised admin doesn't delete all these whining posts.

Is Whalen a forum sponser?

Just wondering.

[bubba]

If I was looking for an education visa, Walen is the first place I'd go. The people constantly whinging about his promotion on here are the people who never need one of those visas and just like nagging. I'm surprised admin doesn't delete all these whining posts.

don't you mean if anybody wants to study thai language (at a respectable educational establishment that provides the appropriate visas for its students) they should contact you??!!...

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

One thing is for sure.. No matter what my visa class, or need for a visa, or desire to learn thai.. The one place I would never go to is Walen, simply because of the spammy way the operator uses the forums.

Some people need a netiquette lesson and to realize that you can lose a target audience that way.

But I am not surprised that the admins did delete the numerous spamming self-promotionals that were posted to this thread. Kudos to the admins.

[Soutpeel]

Europeans tend to be much more legal than the Koreans etc.

Are you a Thai immigration officer ?....how do you know ?

This is like saying every Russian in Thailand is Russian Mafia.

[brewsterbudgen]

The Russians and Koreans are targeted but let's face it Europeans are the biggest culprits for running business's in Thailand on tourist visas. The whole visa run business revolves around these people who enter Thailand on tourist visas and rubber stamp them.

Not forgetting the hundreds of Laos who do monthly border runs to enable them to stay in Thailand.

Sent from my GT-S7270L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tropo]

One thing is for sure.. No matter what my visa class, or need for a visa, or desire to learn thai.. The one place I would never go to is Walen, simply because of the spammy way the operator uses the forums.

Some people need a netiquette lesson and to realize that you can lose a target audience that way.

If I was looking for an education visa, Walen is the first place I'd go. The people constantly whinging about his promotion on here are the people who never need one of those visas and just like nagging. I'm surprised admin doesn't delete all these whining posts.

Is Whalen a forum sponser?

Just wondering.

Yes, Walen is a sponsor.

[stevenl]

Europeans tend to be much more legal than the Koreans etc.

Are you a Thai immigration officer ?....how do you know ?

This is like saying every Russian in Thailand is Russian Mafia.

Because I am at the pier here every morning, seeing exactly what is happening, who is working here, who is working here legally and wearing a company shirt, who is working illegally and hiding behind others, etc.

My experience in this is of course local, so it could be that the situation in other places is different from Phuket.

Your final sentence is BS and has no relation at all to what I wrote.

Edited May 16, 2014 by stevenl

[Soutpeel]

Europeans tend to be much more legal than the Koreans etc.

Are you a Thai immigration officer ?....how do you know ?

This is like saying every Russian in Thailand is Russian Mafia.

Because I am at the pier here every morning, seeing exactly what is happening, who is working here, who is working here legally and wearing a company shirt, who is working illegally and hiding behind others, etc.

My experience in this is of course local, so it could be that the situation in other places is different from Phuket.

Your final sentence is BS and has no relation at all to what I wrote.

So you are an immigration officer then... ....so one assumes you check all these miscreants passports and scrutinize the stamps in their PP's

If your not, why don't you volunteer for immigration then...?

[stevenl]

Europeans tend to be much more legal than the Koreans etc.

Are you a Thai immigration officer ?....how do you know ?

This is like saying every Russian in Thailand is Russian Mafia.

Because I am at the pier here every morning, seeing exactly what is happening, who is working here, who is working here legally and wearing a company shirt, who is working illegally and hiding behind others, etc.

My experience in this is of course local, so it could be that the situation in other places is different from Phuket.

Your final sentence is BS and has no relation at all to what I wrote.

So you are an immigration officer then... ....so one assumes you check all these miscreants passports and scrutinize the stamps in their PP's

If your not, why don't you volunteer for immigration then...?

Wow, you really have real life issues. How about getting away from your computer and looking around, seeing what is happening..

Edited May 16, 2014 by stevenl

[uptheos]

If I was looking for an education visa, Walen is the first place I'd go. The people constantly whinging about his promotion on here are the people who never need one of those visas and just like nagging. I'm surprised admin doesn't delete all these whining posts.

Yes Walen not only seems to have things in order, but appears to have many new ideas too. I doubt if he would steam ahead with these, if he were not sure of giving people what they want.

[Soutpeel]

Wow, you really have real life issues. How about getting away from your computer and looking around, seeing what is happening..

Oh dear...but no I don't have any real life issues as far as I am aware....I know I didn't use too many smileys in my post...but sense of humour dear boy sense of humour...I was taking the "mickey"

[NanLaew]

Well I have been here long enough to see a lot of sad retiree's, drinking beers outside the 7/11 to save money.. While I also know oil workers with new 5 series M sports and a garage full of million baht motorbikes.

Which one do you think benefits Thailand the most financially ??

Doesn't really matter, they can all stay legally here without too much hassle.

I have yet to hear how an oil worker, with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to BKK, can do for a visa ??

Saying go and get tourist visas from a 3rd party country is simply not workable for the travel.

An oil worker with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to Bangkok MAKES time to get a visa.

You only need to make ONE alternate repatriation travel plan each year and 'lose' at tops 48-hours out of your precious time off to secure a visa that totally eliminates exposure to Thailand's nebulous visa-waiver regulations AND the vagaries of working in the oil patch.

[NanLaew]

I friend of mine, works FIFO in E&P owns a condo he bought here about 12 years ago. Unfortunately, he is still a few years shy of 50 so can't do the retirement visa option either. So he signed up for an ED visa and manages to satisfy course requirements and maintain the visa while still working in the oil patch. His only 'inconvenience' was applying for the ED visa back in the UK which was hassle free.

I think that some here are just cadging for a 'silver bullet' solution on a plate without doing any meaningful research, thinking outside the box or exerting any real effort. I wonder what they are like at work?

[SUSHI SHOGUN]

Tourist visa runs are not dead: Immigration boss

Phuket Gazette - May 16, 2014 | 05:46 PM

PHUKET: Tourists who can prove that they are genuinely staying only short-term while travelling in Thailand will be allowed to leave on “visa-runs” and re-enter the country, Immigration Commissioner Pharnu Kerdlarpphon confirmed to the Phuket Gazette.

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday.

“Then they will be allowed to re-enter the country.”

Gen Pharnu clarified the focus of the new immigration regulation, which allows most foreigners to enter the country only once using visa-exempt status.

“The crackdown...

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news#ad-image-0

[Maestro]

Continued here:

Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions