Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[Yahooka]

This could crash the condo markets very badly.

Good luck trying to find the next tenant or trying to sell your condo.

A lot of exaggeration here I think. How many people really are concerned by this "crackdown"? Probably not that much. And how many of them rent yearly a condo? Probably very few.

In my condo I think that most people live here on long term visa (extension for wife, retirement, work-permit...) and others only come by period as true tourists using tourist visa. In fact I don't know any who live here on visa-run... and I supose it must be similar in most condos.

In my condo most of the people owning is young russians,but I guess they will be OK too

[nidieunimaitre]

I'm getting confused here, is this crackdown thats supposed to hit in august gonna affect people using tourist visas with double and triple entries if they cant prove they are tourists, or is this crackdown only for visa exemptions?

Yes, tourists are included in this crackdown.

From the instructions given to immigration officers at entry points:

Immigration stations are not allowed to permit Visa run-type Out-Ins that are intended to get the right to live in the Kingdom continuously, that are not for purposes of tourism

Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725053-final-crackdown-for-border-runners-new-strict-immigration-regulation-in-force-from-today/page-6?p=7802286#entry7802286

Both visa-exempt entries and entries with a tourist visa are for the declared purpose of tourism. "Visa run-type Out-Ins" is not defined and it is up to the immigration officer to interpret, but from interviews with with immigration generals it appears to mean "departure from Thailand and return to Thailand on the same day or within a few days"

“The crackdown is all about preventing foreigners from using visa-exemptions and tourist visas to stay in Thailand and work,” Gen Pharnu said.

Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726721-thai-immigration-is-determined-to-prevent-abuse-of-visa-exceptions/?p=7833758#entry7833758

Thirty days should be enough for a normal tourist. If they really want to travel around the country for more than 30 days, then they must show us a plausible plan. If officers are suspicious, then they will carry out checks

Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725773-immigration-boss-confirms-the-out-in-visa-run-is-dead/

No, tourists are not included in this crackdown.

...Non-Immigrant Visa or Tourist visa holders with remaining entries on their visa can exit and enter Thailand as before.

Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725053-final-crackdown-for-border-runners-new-strict-immigration-regulation-in-force-from-today/page-25?p=7805873#entry7805873

If I understand you correctly, it is possible that holders of a double entry tourist visa could have problems when they do their out/in visa run. They could be suspected of working illegally.

Do you think that likewise, holders of a multi entry non immigration o visa could have problems when they do a out/in visa run? - they too could be working illegally.

[danols]

This is obviously super confusing and seem very inconsistent so I guess anyone's guess is as good as my own but maybe someone been in a similar situation that I will be in next week.

In my passport (Swedish) I have a double entry tourist visa for 2012/13 with extensions (done in Chiang Mai) and 2 extra border runs to Mai Sae for 14 days visa exemptions.

I also have a triple entry tourist visa for 2013/14 with extensions (done in Bkk) and same day border runs to Cambodia to activate the 2nd/3rd entries.

I have several tourist visas in older passports (would they have access to that information?) I work online and haven't worked a single day in Thailand and I don't have a Thai bank account and I just cash out with my overseas VISA when needed. So no paper evidence to show for none Thai based income.

I am leaving Bangkok by air at Suvarnabhumi Sunday next week and I am attending a funeral the day after arrival so delays would be disastrous.

What can I expect when I leave? Questioning and delays? Possibly being detained & delayed several days (lol really? seem absurd) and get blacklisted? Fines? A quick stamp, smile and a 'hope to see you again' greeting?

Obviously no one really knows for sure since it seems so inconsistent but what is your guess, anyone been in a similar situation recently?

Anything I can do to prepare for my exit to avoid problems?

Unrelated but still interesting question in my case> If I get a new blank passport in my home country and a new tourist visas would I be able to get back in? (I have a condo and a lot of possessions here)

Thanks

The question is are you a resident in your home country or Thailand? Reading your last paragraph I'd suggest you are resident in Thailand in which case you need more than a tourist visa.

Tourist visas are what they say on the tin.

What is the definition of a resident? What is the definition of a tourist? I pay taxes in Sweden if that matters. I stay in Thailand about 7 months a year, 3 months travelling Asia and 2 months in Sweden and I rarely stay less than 2 months in one place. I have a condo in Bkk to store my stuff but I only live there in total maybe 4-5 months a year. In which countries am I considered a tourist? Where am I a resident? The world isn't as easy anymore like 99%+ of people showing up in Thailand either has a job that pays a salary which requires you to perform that job in a physical location, or you have wealth and don't need to work anymore. There are a lot of location independent jobs that you can perform anywhere. And there are a lot of people that don't have one fixed place of residency and move around a lot because they like that lifestyle.

But all that is irrelevant and mine and your definition of what a resident and a tourist is doesn't matter. What matters is what the immigration officer interrogating me next Sunday thinks it is. Sometime with little experience on the job and quite often with limited English. Looking at what ever documents I am producing. Have they had a shitty day? Do they have some quota to fill? Are they getting crap from their supervisor for not being firm enough? And this is the big problem here now. The lack of predictability. They can set what ever rules they want but they should be clear. If people show up with a tourist visa and still get denied entry or get blacklisted for 5 years because they have one to many stamps from an arbitrary number of correct stamps that is a big problem. I realize it is early days and it will hopefully become clearer what those rules are but I expect it to be major inconvenience and stress for a lot of people the next 6 months while they try to figure it out.

Are there really that many illegal Russian real estate agents & tourist operators that it is becoming a major issue? I mean do they really need to boot out the illegal English teachers? Are they stealing that many jobs from the great pool qualified Thai born English tutors? Maybe they need more English teachers, not less? Did I miss any other jobs that people actually perform on illegal visas?

Edited May 17, 2014 by danols

[SuengTueng]

Yes i wonder that myself.

Im currently on my 3rd back to back 2-entry tourist visa. In 1week i have to get the 30day extension from chiangmai immigration office. Then a month later i have to cross the border, get back in thailand to activate my 2nd entry of my tourist visa.
Will they ask questions? Is yes and they want to have me proof that im a tourist. What about not having much money in my bank. I work online and i don't work for any company, but i make enough on my own to live in cm.
I always went to mae sai by land for activating my entries, should i change this and go by air or is this not needed ?

Thank you

Edited May 17, 2014 by SuengTueng

[danols]

Well by the looks of it I think Mae Sai is the worse place of all at the moment so you should probably avoid that. I think a flight is probably the safest way to go at the moment.

When you try and do the extension on your tourist visa I would leave yourself with 4-5 days to spare before it expires if it is not granted and you need to leave the country.

And you should probably start planning a trip to see your folks and get a fresh passport in your home country while you are at it.

Edited May 17, 2014 by danols

[Jay Sata]

A fresh passport won't help.

All your previous visits are logged along with your picture.

[danols]

A fresh passport won't help.

All your previous visits are logged along with your picture.

Of course my old visits are logged but how is the new and old passports linked? By facial recognition? You get a new passport number every time.

I am not sure you are 100% correct here that they can automatically link old & new passports for people from every country in the world. Are you?

[Thai at Heart]

A fresh passport won't help.

All your previous visits are logged along with your picture.

Of course my old visits are logged but how is the new and old passports linked? By facial recognition? You get a new passport number every time.

I am not sure you are 100% correct here that they can automatically link old & new passports for people from every country in the world. Are you?

Presumably it can be done, but you are right. There is no reason to know for sure that Thai immigration can do it.

Particularly if you are called John Smith. But dates of birth should make it quite easy to match old and new passports and id.

[aussiejon1604]

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.

As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

Stop with the panic...and with the amount of money that you spend. Explain all, calmly, to the officer if questioned....but better still...get a Tourist Visa, at the very least.

The fact is that no one has bothered you at all to date. Yet here you are, ranting, as if someone has taken your toys away. Your stays show you to be a likely tourist.

I have to agree with Jiu-Jitsu. If your a tourist your as safe as houses, Fort Knox or your local fall-out shelter. The sky isn't falling. You will have no problem. If your not following what your legally obligated to do then as in any situation or countries governed by common laws, "Your knabbed". Thailand has announced a crake down because of three reasons,

1. It's Thailand.

2. It's owned by the people of Thailand

3. It's not where you are from.

In others words, because they can.

Many western countries immigration screens you before you pass through local customs. What's stopping Thailand for increasing their scrutiny? If you haven't worked out TIT by now and then learn't to accept it without doing a comparison and complaint of "They should be doing it this way" or "Back home this wouldn't happen" then you're probably in the "worried" category.

[PHP87]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Surely more cash is better for Thailand than being a few months older ??

If someone is under age 50 and does not have previous Visa stamps that took advantage of the so-called loophole, they can apply for Thai language classes and take them for up to 3 years at a modest cost.

The downside is that you must attend 4 - 50 minute classes per week which you can do them all in one day and you must apply from your home country and it takes about 4-6 weeks to approve. The upside is that you learn Thai and stay in Thailand legally for up to 3 years on an ED Visa.

After that, return to your home country and apply for a retirement Visa if you are age 50 or older and have the financial means to meet the rest of the retirement requirements.

Without an age requirement for a retirement Visa, Thailand would fill up with retirees of all ages in no time. The country and infrastructure can support only so many people, regardless of how much they spend.

Or you can bide your time in the Phils, but they will probably be next to crack down on the so-called Visa loophole.

There are some places in the Phils were I would live, but most I would not although it is still my retirement "Plan B" after Thailand.

BTW, for a retirement Visa, does one need to show proof of having both 800k BHT in the bank and a steady monthly income of 65k BHT, or is it one or the other? Also, can it be some combination of both? I'd like to retire when I turn 62, but Social Security will pay me a bit short of 65k BHT per month and I would have to wait a few more years before SS would pay me 65k BHT + per month and I'd like to retire to the LOS when I turn 62, but don't want to have 800k BHT tied up in the bank that I cannot access as I would like to have that money for unforeseen spending and emergencies and general piece of mind and security.

My other option is to start a small venture in the US that would net me a couple of hundred a month to meet the 65k BHT requirement, along with my SS payments assuming that I don't have to also deposit 800k BHT to meet the retirement Visa requirement.

Thanks.

[Jay Sata]

Slightly off topic but why would you want to live in. Thailand when the USA has warm places and they speak your language?

[danols]

A fresh passport won't help.

All your previous visits are logged along with your picture.

Of course my old visits are logged but how is the new and old passports linked? By facial recognition? You get a new passport number every time.

I am not sure you are 100% correct here that they can automatically link old & new passports for people from every country in the world. Are you?

Presumably it can be done, but you are right. There is no reason to know for sure that Thai immigration can do it.

Particularly if you are called John Smith. But dates of birth should make it quite easy to match old and new passports and id.

Of course it can be done manually if they want to. It can even be done automatically with decent accuracy if they want to. But that is not what is interesting.

What is interesting is if it is done automatically at scale and is being utilized at this moment. I am yet to see anyone saying they are. I have had multiple tourist visas granted on clean passports (when the rules were, more than 2 in the records and you won't get it.) It doesn't make sense that the boarder immigration officers have access to a system where this can be done but the people issuing visas doesn't. So therefore I think it is bad when someone confidently says that a clean passport wont make a difference. But I am still curious if anyone had any experiences where they actually had this happen to them. Not what some keyboard jockey know it all thinks.

[danols]

Slightly off topic but why would you want to live in. Thailand when the USA has warm places and they speak your language?

Because the US sucks? Just <deleted> unless you have something relevant to say.

[Yahooka]

A fresh passport won't help.

All your previous visits are logged along with your picture.

Of course my old visits are logged but how is the new and old passports linked? By facial recognition? You get a new passport number every time.

I am not sure you are 100% correct here that they can automatically link old & new passports for people from every country in the world. Are you?

On my march trip they did go through the stamps in my passports and the female immigration officer asked me how many trips I had being doing over the last year.I told her 6 times(all on visa excempts) and she started to type in to her computer and saying that she could only find 5 stamps in my passport.I was about to say that I was using my second passport on one occassion when she said "You had one arrival with a different passport,correct ?"

The procedure took about 5 minutes and it was the first time in 20 years I`ve been asked any questions from immigration.

So I would guess getting a new passport will not be any solution.And for those fools who truly believe that the Immigration computers aren`t even turned on,dream on !!

Edited May 17, 2014 by Yahooka

[osiboy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

This almost happened to me this week. I did about 4 visa runs to Myanmar, when I first came to Thailand 4 years ago as a tourist. Since then, I been working as a teacher, and being a good boy. I finally went home for a visit, and when I returned they saw those stamps from 4 years ago, and they started talking about not letting me enter at the BKK airport. So luckily I had my work permit, which did not seem too impressed with, until I showed pay stubs, my work contacts etc. I was lucky I had all those documents with me.

this makes me think its aimed at the russians , i think they now realise how dangerous they can can be and that they are scarring the traditional farang that has madethailand a prosperous country intead of taking wealth out .

[PHP87]

Slightly off topic but why would you want to live in. Thailand when the USA has warm places and they speak your language?

1) Tropical Paradise depending where you choose to live.

2) Low(er)-Cost of living.

3) The adventure of living in a different country.

4) Lot's of beautiful women that are not "Feminazi's", bossy and obese like here in the US

5) Living out your final years in a place like Koh Samui is a lot less expensive than the US equivalent.

[Thai at Heart]

A fresh passport won't help.

All your previous visits are logged along with your picture.

Of course my old visits are logged but how is the new and old passports linked? By facial recognition? You get a new passport number every time.

I am not sure you are 100% correct here that they can automatically link old & new passports for people from every country in the world. Are you?

Presumably it can be done, but you are right. There is no reason to know for sure that Thai immigration can do it.

Particularly if you are called John Smith. But dates of birth should make it quite easy to match old and new passports and id.

Of course it can be done manually if they want to. It can even be done automatically with decent accuracy if they want to. But that is not what is interesting.

What is interesting is if it is done automatically at scale and is being utilized at this moment. I am yet to see anyone saying they are. I have had multiple tourist visas granted on clean passports (when the rules were, more than 2 in the records and you won't get it.) It doesn't make sense that the boarder immigration officers have access to a system where this can be done but the people issuing visas doesn't. So therefore I think it is bad when someone confidently says that a clean passport wont make a difference. But I am still curious if anyone had any experiences where they actually had this happen to them. Not what some keyboard jockey know it all thinks.

I am not 100% either way. But bear in mind, these guys buy the same systems the whole world buys, so assuming that the Thai system is useless is a bit silly.

Its all a matter of enforcement.

[danols]

So this global passport system. Is that the same system that the Malaysian immigration used when they didn't identify the 2 passports reported stolen on that flight? If they can't even figure out how to trace passports being stolen between countries it just doesn't feel very likely that they are automatically connecting different passports for the same person. I think cross country capabilities, especially between continents is far less sophisticated than what you would expect. I am unconvinced.

And regarding your story Yahooka. Thanks for sharing. But it seems to me you gave her all the information she required to be able to draw the conclusion you had been taken your 6th entry on another passport.

Edited May 17, 2014 by danols

[Yahooka]

So this global passport system. Is that the same system that the Malaysian immigration used when they didn't identify the 2 passports reported stolen on that flight? If they can't even figure out how to trace passports being stolen between countries it just doesn't feel very likely that they are automatically connecting different passports for the same person. I think cross country capabilities between countries, especially between continents is far less sophisticated than what you would expect. I am unconvinced.

And regarding your story Yahooka. Thanks for sharing. But it seems to me you gave her all the information she required to be able to draw the conclusion you had been taken your 6th entry on another passport.

If you could read what I said one more time I was about to say I was traveling on a second passport,but she beat me to it .

Edited May 17, 2014 by Yahooka

[LivinLOS]

You think I would be allowed to live in Russia, the US or most other countries for a year or longer just because I'd like to and can support myself. Fat chance.

Erm.. Well yes...

You show a large amount.. say 10 or 20x an average annual western wage in the bank.. And the visa is pretty open and shut.

I got a 10 year visa for america when I asked for a 1 year.. All around the EU show big funds in the bank, a mil EUR etc.. and they dont have an issue.

[kjhbigv]

I am under 50 and my income is from the UK from various properties, I spend my time here on Triple Entry Tourist Visa's and head back to homeland every 9 months...now my Thai GF is now 6 mths pregnant.....I rent a place here.....what now?

Why not have a Visa that is similar to a "retirement" Visa but is allowed for under 50's?

I fit all the requirements of a retirement Visa BUT I am not 50.....not my fault I made my cash before the so-called "retirement" age.

I know at the moment, Triple Entries are exempt (to a degree) BUT can easily see this being misinterpreted by Imm.

Marriage here I come!

[Danielsiam]

I am under 50 and my income is from the UK from various properties, I spend my time here on Triple Entry Tourist Visa's and head back to homeland every 9 months...now my Thai GF is now 6 mths pregnant.....I rent a place here.....what now?

Why not have a Visa that is similar to a "retirement" Visa but is allowed for under 50's?

I fit all the requirements of a retirement Visa BUT I am not 50.....not my fault I made my cash before the so-called "retirement" age.

I know at the moment, Triple Entries are exempt (to a degree) BUT can easily see this being misinterpreted by Imm.

Marriage here I come!

Bring and stay with your girlfriend and let her delivery in Cambodia, no problem with visa issues, then the baby will enjoy 3 citizenship ( yours, thai, & cambodian )

Edited May 17, 2014 by Danielsiam

[Mencken]

I am having a difficult time understanding why persons that at do not possess an O or B visa and for whatever reason, cannot obtain one are:

Not moving to Edu visa (for as long as that lasts). Baring that ...Wasting their time and lives posting on TV, you are done here as a casual resident.

Pack your bags ffx!

Look back on it all with fondness and MOVE ON.

Asia still has living options, try the coastal Balkans

Seems a few possibilities in S/C Amer

Get over it.

Philippines and Cambodia are the obvious choices for mongers. Sri Lanka and India, Myanmar, Lao on monthlies and extensions. Malaysia will surely get some flotsam, recommend flying into KUL not Penang, even if you want to hole up there. I understand staying in Vietnam for six months is ez.

Seems the moaners really not interested on anything but women and beer. Visa run is exhausting so sure you don't want to stap a pack on your back and go hobo. Stop complaining, it will change nothing. Noobs, stop asking about.your special situation, no one knows.

Turn the page or roll the dice and don't complain when they come up snake eyes.

Yes, they are beginning to enforce now

Of course this will eventually affect b2b visas

Every exit will be a chance return for those visiting more than a few months a year. Two tourist visas six months apart. One double or one single O (winter).

If they are serious, this will empty all the fleshpots and 25% of the teachers (Issan might lose 50%+??). All the high school dropout loser "dive masters", all the slavs (Russian economy is shit so I'd expect all sorts of sketchers. Boiler Room Billies, real estate "agents" in BKK. Loads of Indians...the list is endless.

★★ I would like to say though that Imm/Lab offices should really step up their game and provide teachers a streamlined process that the teacher can diy and not leave to the lazy and corrupt agencies to file not.

Show diploma, transcripts, cert letter at any embassy, get a B visa.

Get a job

Get a WP

✔teaching waiver granted on basis of above docs, five years out

★TCT provide bonafide weekend course for license

There are no repercussions to Thais working teachers illegally. Only upside, this must change! Allowing five year waivers will totally rock the bs oit of the industry.

Allow teachers to own their permits.

Thailand is just so impossible in this regard. So many schools and especially agencies have no intention of legalizing their staff. It is crazy complicated and they save money by not complying. They ate not penalized - so why would they bother?

Edited May 18, 2014 by Mencken

[stevenl]

This is obviously super confusing and seem very inconsistent so I guess anyone's guess is as good as my own but maybe someone been in a similar situation that I will be in next week.

In my passport (Swedish) I have a double entry tourist visa for 2012/13 with extensions (done in Chiang Mai) and 2 extra border runs to Mai Sae for 14 days visa exemptions.

I also have a triple entry tourist visa for 2013/14 with extensions (done in Bkk) and same day border runs to Cambodia to activate the 2nd/3rd entries.

I have several tourist visas in older passports (would they have access to that information?) I work online and haven't worked a single day in Thailand and I don't have a Thai bank account and I just cash out with my overseas VISA when needed. So no paper evidence to show for none Thai based income.

I am leaving Bangkok by air at Suvarnabhumi Sunday next week and I am attending a funeral the day after arrival so delays would be disastrous.

What can I expect when I leave? Questioning and delays? Possibly being detained & delayed several days (lol really? seem absurd) and get blacklisted? Fines? A quick stamp, smile and a 'hope to see you again' greeting?

Obviously no one really knows for sure since it seems so inconsistent but what is your guess, anyone been in a similar situation recently?

Anything I can do to prepare for my exit to avoid problems?

Unrelated but still interesting question in my case> If I get a new blank passport in my home country and a new tourist visas would I be able to get back in? (I have a condo and a lot of possessions here)

Thanks

The question is are you a resident in your home country or Thailand? Reading your last paragraph I'd suggest you are resident in Thailand in which case you need more than a tourist visa.

Tourist visas are what they say on the tin.

What is the definition of a resident? What is the definition of a tourist? I pay taxes in Sweden if that matters. I stay in Thailand about 7 months a year, 3 months travelling Asia and 2 months in Sweden and I rarely stay less than 2 months in one place. I have a condo in Bkk to store my stuff but I only live there in total maybe 4-5 months a year. In which countries am I considered a tourist? Where am I a resident? The world isn't as easy anymore like 99%+ of people showing up in Thailand either has a job that pays a salary which requires you to perform that job in a physical location, or you have wealth and don't need to work anymore. There are a lot of location independent jobs that you can perform anywhere. And there are a lot of people that don't have one fixed place of residency and move around a lot because they like that lifestyle.

But all that is irrelevant and mine and your definition of what a resident and a tourist is doesn't matter. What matters is what the immigration officer interrogating me next Sunday thinks it is. Sometime with little experience on the job and quite often with limited English. Looking at what ever documents I am producing. Have they had a shitty day? Do they have some quota to fill? Are they getting crap from their supervisor for not being firm enough? And this is the big problem here now. The lack of predictability. They can set what ever rules they want but they should be clear. If people show up with a tourist visa and still get denied entry or get blacklisted for 5 years because they have one to many stamps from an arbitrary number of correct stamps that is a big problem. I realize it is early days and it will hopefully become clearer what those rules are but I expect it to be major inconvenience and stress for a lot of people the next 6 months while they try to figure it out.

Are there really that many illegal Russian real estate agents & tourist operators that it is becoming a major issue? I mean do they really need to boot out the illegal English teachers? Are they stealing that many jobs from the great pool qualified Thai born English tutors? Maybe they need more English teachers, not less? Did I miss any other jobs that people actually perform on illegal visas?

Yes, many, many illegal touroperators from Korea, China, Russia, I see this every day. So I fully understand that action.

Regarding your resident status, it would depend on the law in your home country, but quite often the rule is: reside more that 6 months in a country and you're a resident there. Which means you'd not be a Swedish resident (so no taxes there) but Thai (so you'd have to change you visa status since you're not a tourist and pay taxes here).

[stevenl]

Actually it confirms them perfectly. No Thai consulate in nearby countries issue more than 2 or 3 tourist Visa, at the most. In most case single entry. If you don't believe it try it yourself.

Which is not what John is saying.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but it is what I am saying. The official statement regarding requirements for a TR visa have not changed in years. And also, applying from one's home country seems to be a different case. But the reality on the ground anywhere and everywhere within SE Asia has changed very significanly over the last 2 years. At this point, if the official simply sees several Thai visas in one's passport, regardless of how old they are, the applicant will be refused. No, it's not what the laws says. It's Thailand, and these new statments saying 'simply get a real visa' are double speak. That person surely knows that visas aren't being issued to most people at this point.

Look at this thread and other threads about the same subject. Many people living on perpetual tourist visa.

What you're saying is simply not true and does not reflect policy and reality.

[stevenl]

To really understand what's happening people need to stop buying, and then arguing over, the officially released excuse: 'working illegally', and 'get a proper visa'.

Get around and look around. Check the tourist areas of Pattaya, Koh Tao, Samui, Phi Phi, Phuket, Khao Lak and you'll see many, many foreigners working illegally, quite often the whole company setup is illegal. And of course the legitimate companies and workers are not happy about that and complaining. Some of these illegal workers are westerners, most of them are Koreans, Russians, Chinese. Coincidence there are targeted now?

[Canada]

I guess that the companies that are hiring w/o work permits will be affected then, like schools that will hire a foreigner but not support a work permit. There are many of these. Has the right hand thought about how it's actions will affect the left? Not likely.

[Concerned expat]

" I'd be prepared to bring copies of airline tickets and proof of sufficient funds though."

Air tickets is stupid thing - everybody know that exist ticket tarifs which allow return tickets. So this is just burecracy - ppl buy tickets, pass the border, and then return it to aircraft company - this visitors filter doesnt work anywhere the world. - stupid waste of time - for everybody.

About sufficient of funds, Well i have on accounts several million bahts, but the question in airport i meet at 15 of May was not suffient funds - it was notice that in my passport i have Cambodia border run and words - don't do this again. Well on 15 May it was words. Whats the next?

As per post #262: " Regarding 'get a proper visa', the officlal statements on websites, etc (what has generally been true in the past), is not how it is anymore, in most cases. Ignore the people with other types of visa denying that: if you've tried to get another Thailand tourist visa recently, inside any SE Asian country, you know it's getting harder and harder to come by.

The OBVIOUS thing that no one here is mentioning, is that the PM was forced to flee office, just 2 days before this was first announced. That is NOT UNRELATED! It is certainly a more obvious reality than 1% unemployment being suddenly seen as an emergency. Nor was it a coincidence that it became much harder to get a new tourist visa after she first took office: her party (which I have no opinion of) traditionally is not partial to farangs. Royalists traditionally are. That the new head of immigration who found a chance to impose harsh prejudices based on 'the feelings of a particular agent' is Thai-speak. 'Working illegially' isn't what it's about at all. It means, "Oh yeah? You Royalists think that foreigners are more important than the poor people up-country? I have the power in this office now, and watch this."

In America and the UK it's become routine for some politicians to target ethnic minorities. Like it or not, that's you here. We've all learned to detect their dog whistle calls back at home, about 'inner city' people meaning blacks (in America), rightwing politicians supporting 'stop and frisk' laws to target whatever group of people they don't like, muslims being targeted unfairly by UK law enforcement. It's common, but here in Thailand, we have been rather blissfully unaware of how much 'some' people don't like us, no matter how polite and 'Thai' we try to be. You aren't going to hear about it from your girlfriend, a food vendor, or your landlord. I love Thai people, but they are famous for not speaking their minds and smiling. The retirement, gold-plated crowd may well be very surprised after first celebrating the 'tourists' being driven out in the next months. Because they are in truth, as white as the rest of us. And just like blacks or Mexicans in America, or Muslims in the UK, there are plenty of people in Thailand who hate you every bit as much. Once you are the remaining target, all bets are off as far as your relazing retirements go, no matter how 'legitimate' you like to imagine Thais see you as being up to now."

It appears as all the measures or "knee jerk reaction" are moving towards "legalizing" some sort of extortion by immigration officers and consular officials from every "white farang" regardless if law obedient or illegally working. Some sort of "well connected consultancies" could pop up and offer a resolution for an additional fee. Who could provide at least one example when Thai system was capable of function without any corruption?

Would all of us who are not working in Thailand and just enjoying the sun agree on acting through public media in our country of passport by raising our concerns about adverse discrimination / racism?

It does not matter if any white farang come from Eastern or Western Europe or Canada/US, we are now at the same boat as targeted by local mob minority. Let's start with explaining regular Thai suppliers of services how new rules are hurting their pockets when we are discriminated against. It could be too late by August. Act now and start spending less with adding explanations about new political forces. I am sure: local Thais who are benefiting from farangs could raise their concerns too.

[Canada]

Concerned Expat

No. They are not targeting tourists.

[kriswillems]

Let's be honest, if you are a farang. How much money can you get from illegally working here? And how stable would the job be?

I doubt that the main source of income of the illegal workers is their work and most probably they take a lot of money from abroad into Thailand.

Honestly, I don't see the relation between tourist visa and illegal work, because you can illegally work on any kind of visa.

The problem with illegal workers comes from the people of the neighboring countries, who enter Thailand without a visa on/or are illegally staying here.

And even that is a problem with many sides, because these people make a huge contribution to the Thai economy.

Thailand is a country with very little unemployment and almost no government money for the unemployed.

You can't compare it to the west when talking about illegal work.