Pledging policy blamed for drastic fall in price of Thai rice

[KunMatt]

Come now be honest

Farmer were happy to take the crazy price....why not...I would if offered.

But it was not sustainable. Who did not know that? Look at the result.

Yet the farmers got use to the higher price & thought it would last forever.

rice 10yr.jpg

Are you speaking from personal experience or just from what you read on the news on this forum?

For the first year of the scheme the farmers MAY have got a slight increase in the sale price for their rice but most of the promised 30% increase on market price was sucked up by the millers and at very best the farmers MAY have got 11k or 12k per tonne when the PTP PROMISED them 15k per tonne. The 2nd year Yingluck stopped subsidising the farmers for their irrigation which used to be 2k baht per rai and then the price of rice tumbled, so now you have to deduct another 2k baht from the price of rice which wasn't a factor before. This year the farmers are getting about 6k per tonne at the end. If you really think that the farmers had any time to "get used to the higher price" then I think you are mistaken about what you are talking about.

Last year was the first time ever that my partner's family ever made a loss on their rice. It actually cost them 5k baht last year for them all to work in the fields all year to make rice. Yes they have rice to eat but they could've just bought the rice they needed for probably 5k baht too and saved all the hard graft. They are expecting this year to cost them the same.

Unless something drastic happens then this will continue.

[mania]

Are you speaking from personal experience or just from what you read on the news on this forum?

I am not taking sides at all actually

What the farmers got is ultimately irrelevant

"Thailand" cannot pay the fantasy price. Whether that be to middlemen.

farmers or politicians

This is the price of rice period!

All else is fluff

If you look at the chart you see right at the aberration or gap up

in price in 2008 the true price.

All traders of markets have a saying...All Gaps Must Be Filled

That gap up is now returning to reality. Look at the chart it is a textbook example

The price is now where it should be & can continue perhaps

a sustainable growth over the next decade just as it did from 2004 to 2008

The Gap is filled for the most part although there is still the possibility of it going as low as $312/tonne

Edited May 26, 2014 by mania

[UbonRatch]

The already-rich Chinese-Thai rice millers aren't complaining. They were probably front of the queue when gov't money was being handed out.

Let's think outside-the-box for a moment. There's a crop which is superior to rice for the following reasons... can you guess which crop?

>>> grows like a weed in poor soils

>>> doesn't need copious amounts of water, like rice does

>>> doesn't need pesticides or herbicides like rice does

>>> doesn't destroy watersheds like rice paddies do

>>> has higher $ value than rice

>>> its seed and oil are much more nutritious. What is rice, other than starch?

>>> has hundreds of practical applications. Just one: Volvo uses one part of the plant to cushion its car and truck seats.

answer: HEMP

Either you're as high as a kite, or you've lived her too long and gone back 200 years in time.

Hemp is not as widely used as you believe it is nowadays. The majority of man-made, modern, technologically-advanced products of late have totally out-priced hemp, and in most of its previous applications.

Are you part of a Colombian cartel who ran away before being shot?

[fab4]

Remember the very poor small rice farmers. The poorest of the poor. The ones who were to small to get the pledge price but had to wear the inflated costs that the scheme brought about. Now they pay yet again with the collapse of the rice price. Thanks PTP

Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) stated the richest 20 per cent of rice farmers produce 42 per cent of the total rice supply in the market. Meanwhile, the 2.59 million poorest rice-growing households do not produce enough grain to join the programme.

The rice price subsidy which does not take into account farmers’ income levels therefor only benefits those who are already well off, including rice millers and exporters, while those who were actually in need of a subsidy get nothing.

http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/pledging-scheme-aids-rich/

No cherrypicking eh, djjamie?

[djjamie]

Remember the very poor small rice farmers. The poorest of the poor. The ones who were to small to get the pledge price but had to wear the inflated costs that the scheme brought about. Now they pay yet again with the collapse of the rice price. Thanks PTP

Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) stated the richest 20 per cent of rice farmers produce 42 per cent of the total rice supply in the market. Meanwhile, the 2.59 million poorest rice-growing households do not produce enough grain to join the programme.

The rice price subsidy which does not take into account farmers’ income levels therefor only benefits those who are already well off, including rice millers and exporters, while those who were actually in need of a subsidy get nothing.

http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/pledging-scheme-aids-rich/

No cherrypicking eh, djjamie?

Not at all. I am agreeing with everything iassanaus said and reinforcing it with statements by the TDRI.

[thumper101]

Well... This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just wait till the next harvest is in, I will guarantee that there is going to be many conversations on here, because 4.5 million rice farming families are going to be in the shitter.

What is the government going to do about it?... throw money at them??... You can't have an entire industry becoming dependent on hand outs all the time, we need less rice produced and more things that are currently very expensive i LOS.

[outre99]

This all goes back to populist policies.

The PTP might have seemed pretty popular for introducing this scheme, but what makes populism different from popularity is the exploitation of economic and social interests. Populism leads to abuse and politicians play their role as hero's fighting for a greater good, but in reality they are fighting their own personal struggle for power. Nazism had its roots in Populism, as did many other failed democracies. Heck, even the fall of the Roman Empire was attributed to populism.

The PTP are now no longer. They too can be added to this long long list of failed governments. In part due to populism.

The tragedy is that the red masses either are not capable or willing to comprehend this distinction and will continue to support the corrupt Shins till the bitter end to the detriment of the country. Add to that a very tolerant attitude towards corruption throughout Thai society and virtually not accountability from politicians and you got youself an very swampy ground on which to build the house of democracy.

As i've argued before on these pages Thai society is not ready for a full fledged democracy and must take baby steps towards that end.

[BlackCedar]

We bought two 5 kg bags yesterday and my wife was saying how expensive it is getting. I guess the price isn't falling in the supermarkets.

She bought ....... You paid. make no difference to Thai wife .... Falang .......

[ChrisY1]

It sounded like a grand plan when I first hear of it....but that was when I assumed the government had secured forward sale contracts with international buyers, I hadn't taken into account the gross incompetence in managing the scheme and I expected the rack-off the top to be no more than usual. Silly me!

Gross incompetence or premeditated fraud?

I often wondered of it all part of the plan......fraud that is.....legalised scamming of taxpayers money

[rebelplatoon]

I doubt if the PTP supporters here on TV will have anything useful to contribute to this thread..... ?

Haven't seen them on this topic. Interfering with market prices has never worked. My question still is:

When we (the consumer) buy rice in the shop, why is it more expensive than last year?

Someone must have been making quite a buck !

[BlackCedar]

Remember the very poor small rice farmers. The poorest of the poor. The ones who were to small to get the pledge price but had to wear the inflated costs that the scheme brought about. Now they pay yet again with the collapse of the rice price. Thanks PTP

Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) stated the richest 20 per cent of rice farmers produce 42 per cent of the total rice supply in the market. Meanwhile, the 2.59 million poorest rice-growing households do not produce enough grain to join the programme.

The rice price subsidy which does not take into account farmers’ income levels therefor only benefits those who are already well off, including rice millers and exporters, while those who were actually in need of a subsidy get nothing.

http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/pledging-scheme-aids-rich/

No cherrypicking eh, djjamie?

Fab4 .. I am surprised you can show your face on here... what an utter waste of time all your red supporting posts were... your lovely Yinluck is under arrest .. her brother your Hero, is still on the run as is his layer the amazing Mr Amsterdam.. (from Thailand) You lost out big time... next you will tell me you are a Man U fan.... and any more Red posts and you and your likes might be locked up also... see how quiet all of you are now... I'm singing in the rain...

[rebelplatoon]

Trust Thais to buy high and sell low, I wish there were some Thai Jews in the government

and you would have seen how to handle buying and selling....

-------------------------------

Actually there are some Thai Jews (as you seem to want to call them). Mostly they are wealthy hi-so Capitalist elite in Thailand..

But they don't buy and sell commodities.

They are smart enough to buy and sell Thai politicians, then let those Thai politicians form meaningless Thai political parties, and then fight it out among themselves within those meaningless Thai political parties.

No matter which political party wins, the "Thai Jews" will win anyhow, because their money has already bought all the politicians and the organized "political party mafia.

Whoever, "wins" in Politics is of no concern to these people. they effectively own all the politicians anyhow.

In Thailand that patronage system is called "Democracy, Thai style".

I will be hung for this again but it's the Sino Thais that are in charge of all the middle man trading. They sit in their offices and use their money to become richer and richer without doing anything, while the Thai farmers break their backs in the paddies. No patronage, no Ammart, it's the friends of TOXIN (I will repeat again: from previously the Sae Khu clan) who lined their pockets with this scheme. Simple as that.

What the Thai farmers need is cooperatives, warehouses, trucks and a distribution system under their own brand. See how their plight will be elevated. Besides that we need to demolish the loan sharks now that the military is in charge. That'll help immensely!

[monkeycountry]

Remember the very poor small rice farmers. The poorest of the poor. The ones who were to small to get the pledge price but had to wear the inflated costs that the scheme brought about. Now they pay yet again with the collapse of the rice price. Thanks PTP

This is the true tragedy of the scheme.

In my opinion the true tragedy is that these very poor farmers will still vote for PTP next time they get the chance, and they will do everything they can to force the PTP to continue the rice scam. If it was just because the farmers were ignorant, and had no idea what is best for them, then I would have some sympathy, but I understand that this is not the case, that they are not ignorant, and know full well what is best for them, which is why their voices should be heard in a vote. Well in that case they asked for it, and likely will do so again.

[moe666]

Well that's what happens every time an attempt to corner the market fails. And they always fail, sooner or later. Unfortunately the wider consequences have yet to be realized.

Remember the Hunt brothers & their foray into the silver market where they did actually corner the market but then went bankrupt.

no they never cornered the market, they didn't have enough money either.

[boomerangutang]

The already-rich Chinese-Thai rice millers aren't complaining. They were probably front of the queue when gov't money was being handed out.

Let's think outside-the-box for a moment. There's a crop which is superior to rice for the following reasons... can you guess which crop?

>>> grows like a weed in poor soils

>>> doesn't need copious amounts of water, like rice does

>>> doesn't need pesticides or herbicides like rice does

>>> doesn't destroy watersheds like rice paddies do

>>> has higher $ value than rice

>>> its seed and oil are much more nutritious. What is rice, other than starch?

>>> has hundreds of practical applications. Just one: Volvo uses one part of the plant to cushion its car and truck seats.

answer: HEMP

Either you're as high as a kite, or you've lived her too long and gone back 200 years in time.

Hemp is not as widely used as you believe it is nowadays. The majority of man-made, modern, technologically-advanced products of late have totally out-priced hemp, and in most of its previous applications.

Are you part of a Colombian cartel who ran away before being shot?

Am I a Colombian cartel boss? I decline to answer that due to self-incrimination concerns.

I don't know what they put in the potable water in Ubon Ratchasani (sp?), but do yourself a favor and google hemp and how it's different than pot. Then, when you come back to post, perhaps you'll have a tad bit of knowledge to back up your aspersions.

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't mind going back 200 years in time, when there were still wild mammals in Thailand, and neither plastic nor internal combustion engines had been invented.

[CaptainPeacock]

RE: BANGKOK: -- THE PRICE of Thai rice has plunged to the lowest level in six years, even lower than Vietnam's despite higher cost of production, due to the deposed government's pledging policy.

So how is it that the 2 kilo of brown rice that I buy from big C is up by 21 baht in the last six months?

Last year it was 68 baht now 89 baht!

I really DON'T get this...maybe I'll start a protest at the rice section of big C, anyone care to join me?

[Gunna]

It sounded like a grand plan when I first hear of it....but that was when I assumed the government had secured forward sale contracts with international buyers, I hadn't taken into account the gross incompetence in managing the scheme and I expected the rack-off the top to be no more than usual. Silly me!

Gross incompetence or premeditated fraud?

I often wondered of it all part of the plan......fraud that is.....legalised scamming of taxpayers money

It was always Thaksin's plan so he could get back the THB 46,373,687,454.70 that were confiscated in February 2010 when he lost in his court cases over not paying taxes after selling Shin Corp shares. It is also why he also paid the Red Shirts to lay siege to Bangkok immediately after the court case as another payback for finding him guilty. He is a very vindictive person and I hope the General has good body guards..

[hawker9000]

Nobody could have expected that to happen!

/sarc

Sarcasm, right?

[whybother]

Nobody could have expected that to happen!

/sarc

Sarcasm, right?

Yes.

... sent from my phone.

[Now or Never]

I doubt if the PTP supporters here on TV will have anything useful to contribute to this thread..... ?

It would be nice if they didn't say any thing but we all know they will soon be screaming their version of history.

[khunken]

I know this is not likely to go down too well on this thread but there are some strong points made that I equally strongly disagree with.

Subsidies are not always bad. When they are made for the right reasons and directed mainly at the right targets - they are for the common good. The EU agricultural subsidies were (& still are to some degree) a good example. They effectively transferred some of the wealth from the richer regions to the poorer ones. It wasn't by any means perfect but broadly did the job.

The second reason for them was the flight from the land. The EU correctly saw that in places like rural Ireland, Greece & Portugal, farmers were deserting the land in droves and moving to the cities to find jobs. Not good if it gets out of hand and your region can't produce enough food for local consumption. Importing basic foodstuffs is not a very economical nor is it a good strategy in times of conflict.

Having said that, the Thai rice subsidy - Thaksin version - was carried out for all the wrong reasons. One, it was a vote-buying ploy. Two, it was very badly structured towards the millers, storage companies and big land owners. Three, it did not make any attempt to help those really in need. Four, it set the prices too high. Five, it was poorly run. Six, it had corruption written all over it but the party refused & blocked & obfuscated & lied - so much that financial figures and amounts of rice in stock are still a grey area.

In a nutshell, subsidies can work if finely directed at identified needful targets.

[FATOZ]

duplicate post removed

Edited May 26, 2014 by FATOZ

[FATOZ]

This is just my opinion, but after spending much time in both countries I think Vietnamese rice is far superior in taste to Thai rice. Maybe just the way it is cooked. Like i said - just my opinion

Edited May 26, 2014 by FATOZ

[Gonzo the Face]

It sounded like a grand plan when I first hear of it....but that was when I assumed the government had secured forward sale contracts with international buyers, I hadn't taken into account the gross incompetence in managing the scheme and I expected the rack-off the top to be no more than usual. Silly me!

Gross incompetence or premeditated fraud?

Maybe a bit of both..... like premeditated incompetence

[boomerangutang]

Not mentioned anywhere, but....

Rice paddies in my region of northernmost Thailand are being covered up. Hills around town are being leveled and long lines of trucks are dumping clay on rice paddies. The standard is; 1 meter, and it's got to be as flat as a football pitch over every sq.M or property.

Some readers might say, 'oh, ha ha ha, there is plenty of rice growing region in Thailand.'

Don't be so sure. If 500 rai of paddies are being eradicated each day, how many years will it take to halve the amount of rice-growing fields? ....and then halve it again in a few more years.

....and I don't need to tell you what all that fill is for. Or maybe I do: for tract houses, malls, apartments, shops, parking lots, roads. That's what our species does; it covers nature with concrete and asphalt. Joni Mitchell said it poetically:

"Pave paradise, put in a parking lot"

from her song; 'Big Yellow Taxi'

Edited May 26, 2014 by boomerangutang

[kimamey]

The big question that I would have is - how do they shift the massive stock pile of old rice before the end of the next growing period - why should a customer be buy from old stock - simple, it has to be cheaper

Not that I know very much about rice farming but it seems to me that the government should be addressing the high material cost to actually grow the rice and leave the market alone - investigate the costs involved in fertilizers etc and investigate those that are price fixing and introducing price controls and possible subsidies at the front end reducing the cost to actually grow it

A rice subsidy isn't so bad and both parties have had them but they have to be reasonable. The problem here is that a lot of the extra paid was taken up by increased costs and land rents. Your idea might have some merit. I know one woman who owns some rice fields but doesn't grow the rice herself. She as the landowner gets the money and shares the extra with the grower. She's a PTP supporter by the way so they're not all bad.

She thinks the scheme is good because she gets more than she used to so her support is understand able. It may be why the PTP won by so much in 2011. If you're offered a lot of money when you don't have much it's not surprising if you don't spend much time wondering how it will be paid.

You don't know much about rice farming!!! You're useless. Only fit to be chairman of the rice committee. I'll put your name forward. Don't worry you won't have to go to a lot of meetings.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AnotherOneAmerican]

We bought two 5 kg bags yesterday and my wife was saying how expensive it is getting. I guess the price isn't falling in the supermarkets.

I reckon the price of rice in supermarkets is up about 100% over the past few years.

5 years back I could buy a 5Kg bag of rice in Makro for 99bht.

Yesterday, same price.

[smedly]

The big question that I would have is - how do they shift the massive stock pile of old rice before the end of the next growing period - why should a customer be buy from old stock - simple, it has to be cheaper

Not that I know very much about rice farming but it seems to me that the government should be addressing the high material cost to actually grow the rice and leave the market alone - investigate the costs involved in fertilizers etc and investigate those that are price fixing and introducing price controls and possible subsidies at the front end reducing the cost to actually grow it

A rice subsidy isn't so bad and both parties have had them but they have to be reasonable. The problem here is that a lot of the extra paid was taken up by increased costs and land rents. Your idea might have some merit. I know one woman who owns some rice fields but doesn't grow the rice herself. She as the landowner gets the money and shares the extra with the grower. She's a PTP supporter by the way so they're not all bad.

She thinks the scheme is good because she gets more than she used to so her support is understand able. It may be why the PTP won by so much in 2011. If you're offered a lot of money when you don't have much it's not surprising if you don't spend much time wondering how it will be paid.

You don't know much about rice farming!!! You're useless. Only fit to be chairman of the rice committee. I'll put your name forward. Don't worry you won't have to go to a lot of meetings.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

can you explain the above in bold - I thought you were having a reasonable conversation until I read that - you really lost me on that one

Please explain before I have your post removed - there is no place here for insults

[englishoak]

The already-rich Chinese-Thai rice millers aren't complaining. They were probably front of the queue when gov't money was being handed out.

Let's think outside-the-box for a moment. There's a crop which is superior to rice for the following reasons... can you guess which crop?

>>> grows like a weed in poor soils

>>> doesn't need copious amounts of water, like rice does

>>> doesn't need pesticides or herbicides like rice does

>>> doesn't destroy watersheds like rice paddies do

>>> has higher $ value than rice

>>> its seed and oil are much more nutritious. What is rice, other than starch?

>>> has hundreds of practical applications. Just one: Volvo uses one part of the plant to cushion its car and truck seats.

answer: HEMP

Just a couple of problems with it.

You cant live on it like you can rice, you can make dishes with it

1. Creamy Hemp Pesto

2. Goji Berry and Hemp Seed Granola

3. Cheezy Kale Salad

4. Creamy Lemon Herb Dressing

5. Banana Chocolate Chia Pudding

Its not a staple diet product

It is probably also illegal to grow here.

Supply and demand dictates the price and Thai rice isnt that much superior to other options. Im glad the price of Hom mali has been dropping its way over priced imo and irritates the heck out of me the family insist on eating only that type... it dosnt go well with anything other than Thai dishes and I do like an Indian curry and other types of rice bar just jasmine all the time.

[Thai at Heart]

I know this is not likely to go down too well on this thread but there are some strong points made that I equally strongly disagree with.

Subsidies are not always bad. When they are made for the right reasons and directed mainly at the right targets - they are for the common good. The EU agricultural subsidies were (& still are to some degree) a good example. They effectively transferred some of the wealth from the richer regions to the poorer ones. It wasn't by any means perfect but broadly did the job.

The second reason for them was the flight from the land. The EU correctly saw that in places like rural Ireland, Greece & Portugal, farmers were deserting the land in droves and moving to the cities to find jobs. Not good if it gets out of hand and your region can't produce enough food for local consumption. Importing basic foodstuffs is not a very economical nor is it a good strategy in times of conflict.

Having said that, the Thai rice subsidy - Thaksin version - was carried out for all the wrong reasons. One, it was a vote-buying ploy. Two, it was very badly structured towards the millers, storage companies and big land owners. Three, it did not make any attempt to help those really in need. Four, it set the prices too high. Five, it was poorly run. Six, it had corruption written all over it but the party refused & blocked & obfuscated & lied - so much that financial figures and amounts of rice in stock are still a grey area.

In a nutshell, subsidies can work if finely directed at identified needful targets.

Exactly. For westerners to bemoan agribusiness subsidies as some kind of devil born socialism while our own countries spend billions is hypocritical in the extreme.

Agrisubsidy is a fact of life. Farmers only have one life, if someone else gets a subsidy, why can't I? To make taxpayers sleep better?

BS.