Stranded Cables for house wiring

[RigPig]

Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for any input.

I have been trying to purchase stranded cables in Phuket now for 2 weeks with no luck. Now that doesn't mean I have limited my search to Phuket, I have been onto a few manufacturers too.

I am looking for 1.5mm2, 2.5mm2 and 4.0mm2 stranded conduit cables for household installation, I will also be looking for the same sizes but a double insulated (preferably flat type, but not absolutely necessary) stranded twin and earth cable, at a later date.

I have had absolutely no luck with the exception of being told 20 days for production.

ALLof the cables I have been offered up to 6mm2 have been a single solid conductor.

I am sure I have bought it here before, but a long time a go and probably in some small hardware at the side of the road.

I am prepared to pay shipping costs to Phuket, and can easily do a bank transfer with the details. I need the cable ASAP, as it is now holding the job up.

Any help will be appreciated,thanks.

[CharlieH]

Might be bettervin either Phuket forum or house building.

[RigPig]

Might be bettervin either Phuket forum or house building.

I thought about that Charlie, but I don't care where I get the cable from it doesn't have to be Phuket.

I also thought I may get a bigger / better / wider response in the General forum, it's not so limited.

[Rimmer]

I will move this to the electrical forum but as far as I am aware stranded house wiring cables in those sizes is no longer available.

[RigPig]

I will move this to the electrical forum but as far as I am aware stranded house wiring cables in those sizes is no longer available.

It seems you can get them, but I have yet to find any "on the shelf" so to speak. I can get it from Thai Yazaki, but there is a 20 day wait, and it is now holding the job up.

My only other alternative at this stage may be to buy multi-stranded industrial double insulated cable and strip the outer sheath off.....

Expensive and a waste.

Edited for a PS.

You would find it difficult in Australia to buy solid, single strand cables larger than 1.0mm2, andthere is a good reason for it. I can't even imagine pulling a solid single core 4mm2 cable around bends in conduit. The 1.5mm2 I am not to worried about, but the 2.5mm2 is for the grounding and should definitely be stranded.

Solid cables break easily, the joins are never as good, bending radius’s when pulling through conduit are reduced and they are generally more difficult to work with.

This is 1970's technology IMO.

Edited June 2, 2014 by RigPig

[Crossy]

Yes, the vast majority (OK all) singles in the smaller sizes that are maintained in stock are annealed solid core, much harder to get into conduit.

If you really want stranded you'll have to wait for it

[bankruatsteve]

Dare I ask, WHY do you need stranded cable?

[Crossy]

Dare I ask, WHY do you need stranded cable?

I can answer that, it's 1,000,000 times easier to get into conduit without doing the Thai thing of cutting into short lengths and joining in the boxes (with associated reliability issues).

[RigPig]

Dare I ask, WHY do you need stranded cable?

As I posted in a previous post:

"You would find it difficult in Australia to buy solid, single strand cables larger than 1.0mm2, and there is a good reason for it. I can't even imagine pulling a solid single core 4mm2 cable around bends in conduit. The 1.5mm2 I am not to worried about, but the 2.5mm2 is for the grounding and should definitely be stranded."

I am an Electrician with 2 licenses from Australia (amongst other qualifications), I am currently working as a Field Foreman in Saudi Arabia, in charge of the electrics on 6 oil rigs.

Apart from the comment Crossy made (thanks), do you know how easy it is to put a nick into a (single strand) cable when stripping it back, and how easily that cable can break when you push the switch or power point back into it's box? When you put cables into a screwed terminal, at the back of a switch or power point, especially if you do not twist the cables together first, which is not uncommon, do you know the chances of one of those single strands going down the side of the screw and not being clamped firmly underneath it (causing an arc)? These are but a few reasons, and they can lead to fires, especially when under load. When cables are put under varying loads they get hot then cool down, they expand then contract, causing them to get looser and looser, producing a bigger and bigger arc everytime until.... well I'll leave that to your imagination....

These things are all but elliminated when using stranded cables. It is the reason you should ONLY use stranded cables for grounding. The rules and regulations are probably some of the toughest in Australia (I work all over the world and to different standards), and the reason is because they are designed to prevent these things from happening in the first place. I would (personally) spend the few extra Baht in the first place.....

Hope that helps a bit

[Bcgardener]

Why not use multi stranded control panel cable? We use it in all our equipment and I know it is readily available up to at least 6sq/mm. It maybe overkill for house wiring but it is far better than the single strand building good wire Thad the is common here. Our local electrical supplier normally has it in stock here in Rayong.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[RigPig]

Why not use multi stranded control panel cable? We use it in all our equipment and I know it is readily available up to at least 6sq/mm. It maybe overkill for house wiring but it is far better than the single strand building good wire Thad the is common here. Our local electrical supplier normally has it in stock here in Rayong.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So far I've only seen it up to 2.5mm2, If I could get that in 4mm2 I would be happy with that, is your supplier a one man band or part of a chain? Rayong isn't that far away from here, could you PM me his Ph number and a name maybe, please.

Thanks

[seajae]

there is a great electrical supply shop just past the new central in Surat Thani, it is used by all the local sparkies and has huge amounts of wiring etc there but whether or not it is stranded I am not sure. I will be able to get a name for you maybe tomorrow night if you are interested, just pm me.

[innerspace]

Numchai in pattaya have some cable going cheap. Comes in red, yellow or white hot.

[IMHO]

The Thai standard for THW wire doesn't require multi-strands. Usually you'll only get stranded THW in 4mm2 or 6mm2 and up, and even then they're not very flexible...

If you must have more flexible wires, It would seem your best compromise will be VCT wire - multi-strand, 2-4 cores @ 0.5mm2 to 35mm2, double-insulated - as normally used for appliance and extension cables.

As an example, 3x2.5mm2 VCT will cost around 39 Baht/meter, compared to around 25 Baht/meter all up for 3x 2.5mm THW (Thai Yazaki brand).

Edited June 2, 2014 by IMHO

[Daffy D]

Just out of curiosity is there any difference in resistance or current drop between solid and stranded cable over long distance?

I seem to recall from long ago that electricity does not travel through a wire but on the surface of it so with stranded wire having more surfaces would they be more efficient?

[Forkinhades]

Just out of curiosity is there any difference in resistance or current drop between solid and stranded cable over long distance?

I seem to recall from long ago that electricity does not travel through a wire but on the surface of it so with stranded wire having more surfaces would they be more efficient?

The ohmic value is the same, and also the voltdrop will be the same

EDIT: well negligable anyway

[Spoonman]

My suggestion, try a car parts shop.

Arjen.

Iam fairly certain the OP does not want to wire his GPO's with speaker cable.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Spoonman

[Forkinhades]

Back to the OP and on topic

try ebay singapore

Or wire pulling Lubricant

In my dwelling the conduits only go into the ceailing voids, and its quite easy to pull solid core cables down straight drops.

[Crossy]

My suggestion, try a car parts shop.

Arjen.

Iam fairly certain the OP does not want to wire his GPO's with speaker cable.

Not all cables in a car are speaker cable??

But equally they are unlikely to be rated for 750V as required for mains wiring.

[Crossy]

Bangkok Cable do stranded singles in 1.5 - 240mm²http://www.bangkokcable.com/bcc_catalog/backoffice/file_upload/131004_2-450!750V%2070C%2060227%20IEC%2002.pdf finding stock is going to be the difficult part.

[seajae]

there is a great electrical supply shop just past the new central in Surat Thani, it is used by all the local sparkies and has huge amounts of wiring etc there but whether or not it is stranded I am not sure. I will be able to get a name for you maybe tomorrow night if you are interested, just pm me.

mate, sent you a message with the contact for the shop the email address you sent me didnt work, wife phoned then and they told her they do have stranded cable but didnt elaborate so it might be a go.

[yankee99]

My suggestion, try a car parts shop.

Arjen.

Iam fairly certain the OP does not want to wire his GPO's with speaker cable.

Not all cables in a car are speaker cable??

But equally they are unlikely to be rated for 750V as required for mains wiring.

I also purchased stranded at the auto shops. I think it was vsf and rated at 300 v. It was the only place i could find multi colors stranded without having to buy huge runs.

[IMHO]

As noted, just buy VCT. Easy to find, not that much more expensive, and rated for the application. Oh, and it's color coded too.

Edited June 4, 2014 by IMHO

[Crossy]

Using 300V cable on a 220V AC system is marginal at best, 220V RMS is 311V peak, add 10% supply tolerance and you're at nearly 350V, about 12% overvoltage.

Now, whilst there's unlikely to be an issue as the insulation is actually far thicker than needed due to mechanical constraints, if you have a fire and the insurance assessor discovers 300V rated cables which he then blames for the fire (even if started by a cigarette), guess whose insurance is going to be invalidated.

Get the proper stuff!

[RigPig]

Thanks for all your help Guys, I REALLY do appreciate it. First I want to apologize for the late reply,the last 2 days have been VERY hectic.

I ended up buying double insulated flexible cable (twin and earth, due to the time constraints), it was expensive, and over kill but I would rather go better than boarder line. Needless to say the Thai electrician just thought I was nuts!!

It was interesting that trying to obtain something I took for granted in my own country was (is) so difficult to obtain here. I always say the impossible things happen easily here but the simple things always seem to be impossible.

I think the cable is obtainable, but you need to allow a month for them to do a run manufacturing it. And I have no idea of the price.

This is my first experience at the front line of tring to build (renovate) here. I did expect issues but didn't realize how you can just hit a brick wall, I have always prided myself with being able to fix anything, however, welcome to Thailand I guess. I can't wait for the next issue hahaha !!

Thank you to everyone for your help,

[IMHO]

Using 300V cable on a 220V AC system is marginal at best, 220V RMS is 311V peak, add 10% supply tolerance and you're at nearly 350V, about 12% overvoltage.

Now, whilst there's unlikely to be an issue as the insulation is actually far thicker than needed due to mechanical constraints, if you have a fire and the insurance assessor discovers 300V rated cables which he then blames for the fire (even if started by a cigarette), guess whose insurance is going to be invalidated.

Get the proper stuff!

That would be VCT right? 750V rated and all

[Crossy]

The proper stuff as previously linked http://www.bangkokcable.com/bcc_catalog/backoffice/file_upload/131004_2-450!750V%2070C%2060227%20IEC%2002.pdf

[RigPig]

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Using 300V cable on a 220V AC system is marginal at best, 220V RMS is 311V peak, add 10% supply tolerance and you're at nearly 350V, about 12% overvoltage.

Now, whilst there's unlikely to be an issue as the insulation is actually far thicker than needed due to mechanical constraints, if you have a fire and the insurance assessor discovers 300V rated cables which he then blames for the fire (even if started by a cigarette), guess whose insurance is going to be invalidated.

Get the proper stuff!

That would be VCT right? 750V rated and all

Correct

The proper stuff as previously linked http://www.bangkokcable.com/bcc_catalog/backoffice/file_upload/131004_2-450!750V%2070C%2060227%20IEC%2002.pdf

Yes you are right Crossy, but it is not stranded until you get to 6mm2, "flexible" apparently doesn't mean stranded, go figure, at least that's what I was told !!

Lesson Learned..............

Edited June 4, 2014 by RigPig

[RigPig]

Oh and as a by note why do they even manufacture 300 volt cables? At 220 volts you are supposed to check the insulation resistance (not that that will ever happen here) with an Insulation Resistance Tester (Megger) at 500 Volts !!! It would be OK at 120 volts, the same as the American style plugs sold everywhere, 120 volt rated !!

Imagine a Thai electrician owning an Earth Loop Impedance tester .

Testing an RCD on both sides of the sine wave

Checking the resistance from the ground rod to every earth in the house, or even running an earth to light fittings..........

It is amazing there are not more deaths here, but the biggest concern is that just trying to do it right is almost impossible.

[Crossy]

Yes you are right Crossy, but it is not stranded until you get to 6mm2, "flexible" apparently doesn't mean stranded, go figure, at least that's what I was told !!

Looks to me like the 1.5mm² (C6DC013B4012) is 30 strands of 0.26mm diameter (truly flexible).

The THW here http://www.bangkokcable.com/bcc_catalog/backoffice/file_upload/131004_1-450!750V%2070C%2060227%20IEC%2001%20%28THW%29.pdf shows 1.5mm² (C6KY013V4012) as 7 strands as opposed to C6KY013V1012 which is solid. This is actually what you want rather than my original link.

This is what you would use in the UK http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA1dot5SBL.html I don't think TLC even sell solid.

Our place is wired in solid, and, as RigPig notes one nick in the core can cause it to fracture (it's supposedly annealed but still very hard) and it's a real wrestle to get into conduit leading to a large number of joints (at least ours are Wago connectors).

Anyway, RP has solved his issue, never mind that sparky thinks he's loony.