Thai arts official urges villagers to sell the ancient treasure they found

[webfact]

Arts official urges villagers to sell the ancient treasure they found
THE NATION



BANGKOK: -- FINE ARTS OFFICIALS yesterday urged some 100 community leaders and villagers in Phatthalung's Khao Chai Son district to stop digging for gold and to cooperate by "returning" gold sheets they dug up - within the next two weeks - or face punishment.

Department inspector general Anan Chuchote said people who refused to do this could be punished by up to seven years in jail and/or hit with a fine of up to Bt700,000. He spoke at a meeting with local leaders at the Khao Chai Son Community Hall to discuss the retrieval of gold from villagers.

The move followed the recent discovery of big sheets of gold in a palm plantation, which triggered a gold rush despite a prospecting ban.

People who hand over gold sheets to the authorities within the next 15 days would not be punished.

In addition, he said the Nakhon Si Thammarat Fine Arts Office would assess an appropriate price and pay them a third of the "real" price, an amount that would still be higher than the market price.

Nakhon Si Thammarat Fine Arts Office director Anat Bumrungwong said an inspection by his officials was deterred by rainwater and muddy soil.

Gold sheets buried deep

He said villagers had told them the gold sheets were buried three metres under the ground.

The officials' initial assessment was that the gold sheets and ancient artefacts may be from the Ayutthaya era or earlier. The area was suspected to be an old waterway that connected to Songkhla Lake, so it was believed a boat with valuable items may have sunk there.

Ban Thung Ore palm plantation owner Vee Thabsaeng presented a big gold sheet to the officials later yesterday so it could be studied and kept as a national treasure, and the department purchased the sheet from him at the promised price.

Anan said that a study of the gold sheet by department officials would be complete in seven days and hoped that may yield more clarity on its origin.


-- The Nation 2014-06-03

[ChrisY1]

Ouch.....!!!....Silence is golden!

[dinger]

So market price is not real price?

Return the gold, would assume that you know where it came from

[NongKhaiKid]

The villagers would be well advised to hire a lawyer

[harrry]

Most countries have laws where ancient relics belong to the State.

[dinger]

Is this the same gold that a few days ago was thought to be from the Japanese and left after WW11 and had Japanese inscriptions on it?

[noitom]

Sell or else.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Fine Arts Office would assess an appropriate price and pay them a third of the "real" price, an amount that would still be higher than the market price.

So I am presuming they are talking about the spot price for gold content as the market price, I would have thought that the market price would have been the real price you could get on the world market.

Why wouldn't you sell these on the real market ?

[gemini81]

Finders keepers. Don't let fiefs come in and horde it, pack it up sell it abroad and come back, or get a good lawyer (if Thailand has any yet).

[Seastallion]

Fine Arts Office would assess an appropriate price and pay them a third of the "real" price, an amount that would still be higher than the market price.

So I am presuming they are talking about the spot price for gold content as the market price, I would have thought that the market price would have been the real price you could get on the world market.

Why wouldn't you sell these on the real market ?

Because they are not bullion per se, but actual artifacts that theoretically belong to the state anyway.

[howto]

@dinger

"Is this the same gold that a few days ago was thought to be from the Japanese and left after WW11 and had Japanese inscriptions on it?"

Yes...

2014-05-28

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/729841-thai-farmers-unearth-25-million-baht-in-gold-under-orchard/

@harrry

"Most countries have laws where ancient relics belong to the State."

What about that "Japanese inscriptions on it" part?

That is not ancient.

@NongKhaiKid

"The villagers would be well advised to hire a lawyer"

I agree.

Now from the 2014-05-28 post...

"Rawee Thabsaeng, 54-year-old resident of Khao Chai Son district,
said he found the gold on 25 May in the field where he
had planted small palm tree shoots two weeks ago."

In this OP...

"Ban Thung Ore palm plantation owner Vee Thabsaeng presented a big gold sheet to the officials..."

What about Mr. Rawee, seems he does not own the land.

and

"Anan said that a study of the gold sheet by department officials would be complete in seven days and hoped that may yield more clarity on its origin."

So what if it is from WWII Japanese?

I doubt that the FINE ARTS OFFICIALS will back down from their

extortionist threat of "punished by up to seven years in jail and/or hit with a fine of up to Bt700,000"

As said "get a lawyer or be happy with the 1/3 price rip-off,

and file charges with the NACC and DSI.

Just my 1 baht opion.

Yep, Mr. Rawee should have told no one, including family.

[englishoak]

Hmm someone has smelt a buck i see ... if i was them id bury it again and say i lost it... sorry

[dinger]

Best advice (hindsight now) keep your mouth shut.. But it must be a Thai thing as soon as you have some money you have to tell every one about it. Same as my wife when she hits the Lotto

[NongKhaiKid]

Best advice (hindsight now) keep your mouth shut.. But it must be a Thai thing as soon as you have some money you have to tell every one about it. Same as my wife when she hits the Lotto

It's all to do with face. Pointless to be successful, get money etc. etc. unless everyone knows all about it and can see how good you are.

The downside can be that relatives, including some you didn't know you had, friends and general hangers on come out of the woodwork looking for a donation.

[CPT]

The "real price" is the value of the ancient artifacts which is significantly higher than the value of the gold they contain. The fine arts department has been clear that even 1/3 of the "real price" is far more than the market value of the gold it contains. This is a win win. The folks who dug up the gold make more money than by selling it at their local gold shop and ancient artifacts are preserved.

[worgeordie]

If you ever need a field dug over,just say you found gold

there ,and stand back.

regards Worgeordie

[Frank James]

This is what we call a "shake down."

[dinger]

So the real price is decided upon by the fine arts dept. So it is made up by someone who has no involvement in this at all , correct?

But if you believe the farmers will actually see any of that money I have a bridge in London you might want to buy

[MMarlow]

So the real price is decided upon by the fine arts dept. So it is made up by someone who has no involvement in this at all , correct?

But if you believe the farmers will actually see any of that money I have a bridge in London you might want to buy

I think you'll find that the Fine Arts Dept has a substantial interest in fine art artefects and that they are in a pretty good position to value the pieces.

[timmyp]

Might be smart to say, "Here they are, all 5 pieces that we found," with the other 20 pieces tucked away elsewhere.

Has anyone seen close-up photos of these sheets? I want to see what is written on them. If it's Japanese, you gotta at least be able to read a little Japanese to know that; otherwise it's indistinguishable from Chinese (items like this usually don't have any kana, only kanji). I could definitely see folks in Japan applying pressure to get that stuff back. If there are no published photos, Thailand could also say, "whoops, sorry, not Japanese at all, we guessed wrong cuz nobody can read what is written." ...but maybe it has a picture of the Japanese Imperial flag? I'm just curious how they know it's Japanese, and if they have a chance to claim, "whoops, sorry, not Japanese, we made a mistake."

[marko kok prong]

I see the fine art dept where deterred by rainwater and muddy soil in their inspection attempt, a tough bunch .

[dinger]

So the real price is decided upon by the fine arts dept. So it is made up by someone who has no involvement in this at all , correct?

But if you believe the farmers will actually see any of that money I have a bridge in London you might want to buy

I think you'll find that the Fine Arts Dept has a substantial interest in fine art artefects and that they are in a pretty good position to value the pieces.

My point exactly. So if I am the one responsible for doing the valuation and also the one responsible for the compensation based on that valuation, guess which way I am going to be inclined to set the valuation at?. And the valuation is very subjective.

[belg]

my guess, those people will not be happy ...

finders keepers ?

1/3 of the price ?

now who is getting ripped off here again ?

[JesseFrank]

Fine Arts Office would assess an appropriate price and pay them a third of the "real" price, an amount that would still be higher than the market price.

So I am presuming they are talking about the spot price for gold content as the market price, I would have thought that the market price would have been the real price you could get on the world market.

Why wouldn't you sell these on the real market ?

Because they are not bullion per se, but actual artifacts that theoretically belong to the state anyway.

What is buried on my land belongs to me and nobody else.

Gold artifacts will fetch a higher price as bullion, because it has the added historical value.

[EyesWideOpen]

Wow a straightforward shakedown, sell or else. This will not play out well in the media,

especially the offering of 1/3 third the value. Why in the bleep would they not offer

full value, if they are indeed ancient relics? Perhaps I have been in Thailand too long,

but looks like someone is perhaps angling to make some money off of this. Force the

villagers to sell for a low price or face jail time, take a few of the sheets and put them

on public display somewhere, quietly sell the rest at top dollar, then pocket the money.

[gemini81]

Fine Arts Office would assess an appropriate price and pay them a third of the "real" price, an amount that would still be higher than the market price.

So I am presuming they are talking about the spot price for gold content as the market price, I would have thought that the market price would have been the real price you could get on the world market.

Why wouldn't you sell these on the real market ?

Because they are not bullion per se, but actual artifacts that theoretically belong to the state anyway.

What is buried on my land belongs to me and nobody else.

Gold artifacts will fetch a higher price as bullion, because it has the added historical value.

They should have kept their traps shut. Stuff it in cargo, take a plane, sell it abroad. Keep the funds in an account in the man of isle.

That was on private property, so why should the people be coerced or intimidated into forking it over? Sentimental or historical, thats subjective. Find it keep it (a secret, if in Thailand!)

[JohnThailandJohn]

If the real price is their value as artifacts and they are giving a third of that, it is a good business move as that 1/3 would be more than what the gold would be worth melted down and give further motivation not to traffic in illegal artifacts.

While on one side people should own what they find on their own property, the other side is the state does have a right to protect the interests of all people. So the 1/3 thing might be fair as well as smart.

Edited June 3, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[elgordo38]

The Treasure Trove act in England also states that any treasure found by metal detector or digging belongs to the state. I think the same applies to many other countries. But to the best of my knowledge the items are appraised by the department of antiquities and the full appraised price is paid out to the lucky finder.

[FangFerang]

If a man owns mineral rights, anything on his land belongs to him in the US. If he finds something, he buys the mineral rights, and then finds the treasure.

[somchaismith]

Lol, som non nah.