Frequent Flier Mileage Programs

[DogNo1]

Has anyone noticed the scandalous increase in cost when using frequent flier miles? I am a longtime member of UAL's Mileage Plus program with several credit cards feeding miles into my account. Back in September, I booked a flight from Narita (Tokyo) to LAX using 127,500 miles plus a $45 co-pay. It's a hybrid flight in that I fly on ANA in business class to LAX on July 28th and then return via economy to SFO and then first class on a 747 from SFO to NRT on Sept. 1st. I thought about changing my dates and staying for a shorter while so I investigated changing the ticket. What I found is that a round-trip ticket for the same route now costs 340,000 miles. I guess that only rich people will be flying in business or first class in the future. Strangely, as there has been in years past, there was one American Airlines first class seat available for $4,927. The ordinary cost of the ticket is over $10,000 but every year they seem to make just a few FC seats available at what amounts to half price. These are the seats I'll be looking for in the future. That and buying flights originating in Bangkok from Thai Airways. I am going to wind down my participation in the United program and probably get credit cards that give me Thai miles. In my opinion, the frequent flyer loyalty programs have become unattractive. Who can afford to pay 340,000 miles to LAX? The good seats will now become the exclusive domain of the very wealthy!

[madmitch]

Some programmes are good, some not so. I find it better to use the miles for upgrades rather that actual flights, though I did get a fantastic deal with Continental from BKK to Miami two years ago using miles and paying just over USD100 taxes/fees. I did this knowing they'd be merging with United.

I had some Malaysian miles, enough for a return HKT to KUL. The fees/taxes were more than the cheapest available fare online, so they are still sitting in my account ready to expire.

Good info sometimes available on the Flyertalk forum.

[KED]

In addition to the increased number of miles to claim an award ticket, UA just announced they were changing the accrual from a distance flown to cost of ticket scheme. For most people traveling on discount tickets - this results in receiving half as many miles under the current program. This takes effect 31March15.

For me, that kills my allegiance to UA - plus the fact that they pulled-out of Bangkok and their Star Alliance codeshare flights are more expensive than most other airlines who serve BKK to U.S. on their own aircraft.

[ClutchClark]

In addition to the increased number of miles to claim an award ticket, UA just announced they were changing the accrual from a distance flown to cost of ticket scheme. For most people traveling on discount tickets - this results in receiving half as many miles under the current program. This takes effect 31March15.

For me, that kills my allegiance to UA - plus the fact that they pulled-out of Bangkok and their Star Alliance codeshare flights are more expensive than most other airlines who serve BKK to U.S. on their own aircraft.

Delta announced a few months ago they would initiate this new scheme of miles earned based on ticket price beginning Jan 2015.

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/2015-skymiles-program.html

Agree with madmitch...check out flyertalk forum.

Edited June 19, 2014 by ClutchClark

[pomchop]

In addition to the increased number of miles to claim an award ticket, UA just announced they were changing the accrual from a distance flown to cost of ticket scheme. For most people traveling on discount tickets - this results in receiving half as many miles under the current program. This takes effect 31March15.

For me, that kills my allegiance to UA - plus the fact that they pulled-out of Bangkok and their Star Alliance codeshare flights are more expensive than most other airlines who serve BKK to U.S.

seems more and more airlines are going to HOW MUCH YOU PAY determines how many miles you get.....a.k.a.....the rich get richer....

[wprime]

Qantas has similar things planned.

[Ricardo]

We're all familiar with inflation with our own currencies, why should air-miles or frequent-flyer-points be any different ?

the economist did (in 2002) predict this !

http://www.economist.com/node/1109840

"frequent-flyer miles could be said to be the world's second-biggest currency after the dollar."

Edited June 19, 2014 by Ricardo

[Furbie]

What did Thai do to their frequent flier program? Has anyone checked their Royal Orchid Gold account lately? I logged in yesterday and saw that I have a bunch of miles expiring in June, September and December. A few months ago all miles were good through 2014 at least. Also, the costs for upgrades will go up between 20-50% depending on the destination, effective 1 September.

Check your account people In a pinch, use your expiring miles to get hotel vouchers.

[el jefe]

In addition to the increased number of miles to claim an award ticket, UA just announced they were changing the accrual from a distance flown to cost of ticket scheme. For most people traveling on discount tickets - this results in receiving half as many miles under the current program. This takes effect 31March15.

For me, that kills my allegiance to UA - plus the fact that they pulled-out of Bangkok and their Star Alliance codeshare flights are more expensive than most other airlines who serve BKK to U.S.

seems more and more airlines are going to HOW MUCH YOU PAY determines how many miles you get.....a.k.a.....the rich get richer....

It makes sense that the more you pay the more miles you should get, doesn't it? Otherwise, why should someone get more miles for a Biz Class ticket than an economy ticket.

And the rich don't get richer. if they spend more on their ticket then they are getting poorer.

[pomchop]

In addition to the increased number of miles to claim an award ticket, UA just announced they were changing the accrual from a distance flown to cost of ticket scheme. For most people traveling on discount tickets - this results in receiving half as many miles under the current program. This takes effect 31March15.

For me, that kills my allegiance to UA - plus the fact that they pulled-out of Bangkok and their Star Alliance codeshare flights are more expensive than most other airlines who serve BKK to U.S.

seems more and more airlines are going to HOW MUCH YOU PAY determines how many miles you get.....a.k.a.....the rich get richer....

It makes sense that the more you pay the more miles you should get, doesn't it? Otherwise, why should someone get more miles for a Biz Class ticket than an economy ticket.

And the rich don't get richer. if they spend more on their ticket then they are getting poorer.

Doesn't much matter as I suspect most miles are earned via credit cards etc than by actually flying. Once upon a time mileage programs were about how many miles you actually flew...now much more about partner marketing opportunities......overall no complaints from me as I have done quite well earning miles via credit card promos and then redeeming them to fly almost free....I am especially happy that most programs now allow one way bookings for half the miles of a roundtrip...works nicely especially if you are flexible and willing to check often to see what is available for low mileage requirements.

[ClutchClark]

In addition to the increased number of miles to claim an award ticket, UA just announced they were changing the accrual from a distance flown to cost of ticket scheme. For most people traveling on discount tickets - this results in receiving half as many miles under the current program. This takes effect 31March15.

For me, that kills my allegiance to UA - plus the fact that they pulled-out of Bangkok and their Star Alliance codeshare flights are more expensive than most other airlines who serve BKK to U.S.

seems more and more airlines are going to HOW MUCH YOU PAY determines how many miles you get.....a.k.a.....the rich get richer....

It makes sense that the more you pay the more miles you should get, doesn't it? Otherwise, why should someone get more miles for a Biz Class ticket than an economy ticket.

And the rich don't get richer. if they spend more on their ticket then they are getting poorer.

Doesn't much matter as I suspect most miles are earned via credit cards etc than by actually flying. Once upon a time mileage programs were about how many miles you actually flew...now much more about partner marketing opportunities......overall no complaints from me as I have done quite well earning miles via credit card promos and then redeeming them to fly almost free....I am especially happy that most programs now allow one way bookings for half the miles of a roundtrip...works nicely especially if you are flexible and willing to check often to see what is available for low mileage requirements.

Actually, if you follow anty travel forums it matters quite alot to most frequent fliers and the loss to me personally will be about 40K airmiles annually.

This is a significant change and is a notable departure of a standard practice in the industry and mileage programs .

Edited June 19, 2014 by ClutchClark

[pomchop]

Actually you can get 35000 or so miles just for signing up for a credit card...to get that many miles by just flying you have to fly around the world 1+ times....that is a lot of flying.

I do not know but again I suspect that more miles are earned these days by MOST frequent flyer participants from credit cards than actually flying....and yes it is a significant change but of course the fine print has always said the airlines can pretty much change anything they want anytime they want to change....and now they are all more or less just copying each other so not all that much consumers can do but accept the new rules and deal with them as best we can.

On the positive side I find many of the airline websites make it much much easier to find a frequent flyer seat than before by providing calendars showing what dates are avail at what mileage redemption levels....used to have to spend hours and hours searching for those elusive low mileage seats.

[ezzra]

IMHO, the more tougher the major airlines will get with their FF entitlement the more customer

will gravitate towards the LCC airlines, so in fact they shoot them self in foot,

case in point, July, 35 gays ticket, TG BKK-Melb b.38,000 Jetstar b.26,000 including food, 30 kg and seat selection, and a direct flight,

[ClutchClark]

Actually you can get 35000 or so miles just for signing up for a credit card...to get that many miles by just flying you have to fly around the world 1+ times....that is a lot of flying.

I do not know but again I suspect that more miles are earned these days by MOST frequent flyer participants from credit cards than actually flying....and yes it is a significant change but of course the fine print has always said the airlines can pretty much change anything they want anytime they want to change....and now they are all more or less just copying each other so not all that much consumers can do but accept the new rules and deal with them as best we can.

On the positive side I find many of the airline websites make it much much easier to find a frequent flyer seat than before by providing calendars showing what dates are avail at what mileage redemption levels....used to have to spend hours and hours searching for those elusive low mileage seats.

I am talking about airmiles earned by flying.

You are talking about miles earned with a credit card.

Why do you keep quoting me? Your comments have nothing to do with my point ? ;-)

[richard_smith237]

My Wife Son and I flew BKK-UK a few months ago with Etihad:

Wife and Son (5 months old - lap ticket) - Used an Air Miles redemption Ticket (Business Class) 189,029 Miles + 21685 baht.

I purchased a Business Class ticket: 110,000 baht

Total Cost: Approx 130,000 baht + 190,000 air Miles (Saving of approx 70,000 baht).

Airline Etihad (usual Business Class cost - approx 200,000 baht all in)

My Wife, Son and I are looking at flying BKK-UK again in a few months - this time using TG Air-miles.

Wife on an Air Miles Redemption Ticket (130,000 miles - Business Class) - Tax: 28,000 baht

Son - Lap Seat: 31,290 baht (ticket for infant)

Myself: 136,000 baht

Total Cost: 196,000 baht

When compared to flying with another airline: I can fly Etihad, get a free chauffeur in BKK and the UK (within 100miles) for approx 200,000 baht (or with Emirates for approx 240,000 baht) - OR fly Thai Airways - Use a Redemtion ticket of 130,000 air miles and still pay 196,000 baht.

To me the 130,000 TG air miles in this case are worth approx 4,000 baht.

Instead we have chosen to use the air miles for 5 star Singapore Visit (hotel and flights).

When using an Airmiles Upgrade - The additional tax is not insignificant.

On a Single Seat with TG: Airmiles + Tax 21,000 baht

On a Single Seat with EY: Airmiles + Tax 28,000 baht

Added to which - and this is quite a shocker. Thai ROP Airmiles will half in value from September (i.e. 130,000 miles return business class reward flight is not 130,000 miles one way !)

Edited June 20, 2014 by richard_smith237

[DogNo1]

Well, I don't know how much other posters are flying and spending but it takes an awfully lot of both to accumulate 340,000 miles. UAL sells miles online for $35 per 1,000 miles. That means that each mile that you buy will cost you about $0.035. That makes the putative price of a FC ticket NRT-LAX-NRT about $11,900! I have had my UAL credit cards for years so the signup bonus is long-gone. I don't know how much Thai miles cost or are worth, but if they were UAL miles, the value of 130,000 miles would be $4,500. I used to use my UAL miles for upgrades, but since they stopped flying to Bangkok and don't offer FC tickets or upgrades on partner flights, I have just been buying my FC tickets from the Thai website. I seldom fly to the USA anymore so I will just be using my miles for hotel vouchers for my July-Sept. trip. There seem to be a lot of expiration and usage conditions regarding miles on Thai. At least on United, your miles don't expire for 18 months from your last flight or use of your credit card.

One poster mentioned that inflation is to be expected and was predicted by The Economist. True, but the inflation in the cost of air miles required to fly has been over 100% in less than a year. That's much more than the inflation in the price for other things. I often read Flyertalk and I can tell you that people are very unhappy about the price increase of business and FC tickets.

[ClutchClark]

We're all familiar with inflation with our own currencies, why should air-miles or frequent-flyer-points be any different ?

the economist did (in 2002) predict this !

http://www.economist.com/node/1109840

"frequent-flyer miles could be said to be the world's second-biggest currency after the dollar."

The inflation in airmiles as a currency has been similar to the Argentine Peso !

[RabC]

I am guessing that most of those complaining are Americans, nothing disrespectful but welecome to the real world. The rest of us have been paying huge ++ in taxes! surcharges etc for our "air miles tickets" for years. To redeem TG First class BKK-LHR-BKK cost me far more in surcharges than an eceonmy return.

Pay for the seat get the miles, why should two guys sat side by side earn the same miles when one has a discount ticket at half the price of the other guys full fare ticket. The airlines want full fare paying pax not discount travellers.

[BusyB]

A couple of years ago, Lufthansa tried to up the required mileage for flights/upgrades.

One guy who'd collected millions of miles took them to court and won. The judges ruled that LH isn't allowed to one sidedly reduce the value of miles earned as part of a contract agreement (i.e flight with agreed discount for further flights).

This year they (quite understandably, but this time honestly and openly) reduced mileage to match fare structure: 50% fare = 50% miles. Seems fair enough. June 30th is also the last opportunity to buy airmiles in special promo. That part of the program is being discontinued.

It's also worth knowing that LH is outsourcing the Miles and More program soon. That is usually the first step towards bad service.

I've done OK out of M+M. I'm a fairly regular LH paying pax and have the credit card. Last year I got FF status, and aim to keep it next year as well despite the fare/mileage boost. That will mean at least one C class fare. LH is a damn good airline, and well worth the extra cash as far as I'm concerned - and I'm speaking as someone who used to work in the business. M+M can also be gamed reasonably well for decent deals, especially with a CC where you get miles for purchases and they don't expire either.

However the M+M outsource means I'm not dealing with LH directly any more for my mileage account or bookings. If that results in the slightest jiggery pokery or reduction in what has so far been excellent customer service, then I will immediately fly off all my miles, change CCs and book budget from thereon in - if I'm forced into accepting cheapskate service then I'm going to pay as little as possible for it. And if that means a few hours stopover in Abu Dhabi, so be it.

[theoldgit]

What did Thai do to their frequent flier program? Has anyone checked their Royal Orchid Gold account lately? I logged in yesterday and saw that I have a bunch of miles expiring in June, September and December. A few months ago all miles were good through 2014 at least. Also, the costs for upgrades will go up between 20-50% depending on the destination, effective 1 September.

Check your account people In a pinch, use your expiring miles to get hotel vouchers.

Thai have also increased the number of miles for award tickets from 1 Sept 2014.

A round trip to Tokyo has increased from 45k to 54k and to London from 70k to 82k, increases of 20%. and 17% respectively.

If you book a trip before the 1 September you get the old rates and can book for travel up to 12 months in advance.

[apiwan]

Used to be with Thai.

Now moved to etihad.

And can say it's by far a better experience all round.

No expiring miles. And they give you miles for this and that.

Upgraded at the gate often compared to twice in 10 years.

No more thai

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[matman]

I fly with Emirates Manchester (UK) to Bangkok. About four years ago I attempted to use my Skywards miles when booking a flight on this route. However I found the cost of the flight was around £200 more if I wanted to use my Skywards miles than not using them for exactly the same flight schedule and routing. I've several times asked Emirates staff as to why this was and never was given an answer, I recently contacted Skywards miles on line and posed exactly the same question. The response I got informed me how Skywards miles were earned - and the question I asked was completely ignored. I continue to fly Emirates but only because after checking other airlines they usually come out the cheapest or within so few a pounds that it makes no difference. Now I don't even bother to claim the Skywards miles.

[siam2007]

everything is being devaluated. Not only airline miles, the hotel loyalty programs start to s*ck big time too. Hilton does not give 500 miles anymore per stay, only miles according to the amount spent (which in 80% of the cases will be lower than the 500 Miles - spent a night at Hilton Chongqing earlier this year and got 160 miles or so (80$ x 2). I then had a very unpleasant chat with a very rude team leader of the US call Center and then terminated the Hilton membership entirely (even I was a status member).

from 2015 on IHG group, of which I am a gold member until now, starts the same thing......

[TravelerVon]

As a frequent Thai-to-US flyer I've noticed this recent change too. That was one of the reasons why I've went looking for some service that can help me manage my free miles more efficiently. Eventually I've stayed with flyingfirst.com.au. They've helped me to cut some expenses on first-class tickets (internationally and within US), but if the devaluation will continue and airlines will continue cutting their loyalty programs this might just not be enough...

[mogandave]

The only flights I book with miles are US domestic. Just booked three eco flights Los Angeles to Houston using 75,000 UAL miles, I think that was pretty good value.

I quit flying UAL and quit using their credit card when they dropped the BKK-NRT route, just not enough leg room on ANA. My gold card will expire in 2016.

I think the UAL hotel bookings are good, so I'll burn the 279,132 miles I have left and whatever I generate on Star Alliance flights going forward on hotels, merchandise and gift cards.

Got a new credit card that pays 1% cash back on all transactions and 2% back on all travel and restaurant, any no foreign transaction fee.

Airlines are just trying to reward business travelers (their bread and butter) while reducing the cost of heir heavily discounted fairs.

[Ricardo]

Recently booked BKK-LHR-BKK for 130,000 miles with Jet Airways (of India), my previous redemption (four years ago ?) was with Qatar and only cost about 70-75k, on the other hand any saving is better than nothing !

[bangmai]

Delta now does one way for just half the miles...so I got a KAL ticket from CNX to Inchon to Dulles for 40K and 68 usd...saves 540 miles by not going to BKK, and a stop.

[Dannyboy666]

Delta started this Debacle...

[Diplomatico]

Recently booked BKK-LHR-BKK for 130,000 miles with Jet Airways (of India), my previous redemption (four years ago ?) was with Qatar and only cost about 70-75k, on the other hand any saving is better than nothing !

I hope that's in Business Class because 130K for an economy seat on Jet Airways is - shall we say - less than a bargain.

[mogandave]

Recently booked BKK-LHR-BKK for 130,000 miles with Jet Airways (of India), my previous redemption (four years ago ?) was with Qatar and only cost about 70-75k, on the other hand any saving is better than nothing !

I hope that's in Business Class because 130K for an economy seat on Jet Airways is - shall we say - less than a bargain.

I think that's the point, miles have been significantly devalued.