Final Few Queries

[Ollie]

Some time ago, I made some posts about getting a visitors or fiancee visa for my lady, took heed of the advice and decided against it. Now a married man with a step-son, the wife and I are just finalising the SV and would appreciate some guidance / information on the following:

Just how do you respond to the question about what date you intend to travel? Is it reasonable to say something along the lines of, as soon as a decison has been made about the visa application, or perhaps put a date a month or two ahead? It seems an odd thing to ask prior to a visa being issued?

Is it the case that the spouse is now always called for an interrview? Or is it still dependant on the view of the ECO?

Just to clarify, is the request for the child to travel, part of the visa application for the spouse, nothing else is needed? He has his own passport, ID card etc, the wife has her divorce papers which shows she has sole custody of the child. Its a fact that that the father only learnt he had a son when he contacted my wife for a divorce, she didn't even know where he was (he works in Singapore). Whilst the wife has a new ID card with my surname, she has changed her sons to hers, rather than the fathers (it can't be changed to mine).

My wife has no employment record that is recent or can be substantiated, but she has evidence of her recent and current studies and recently gained qualifications (to date). Its a British Council approved course, which she would like to complete in the UK - worth mentioning?

Finally, is it worth putting all the evidence with the visa application submission, or waiting for an interview? We can produce a very fat file, especially with evidence of the proof of our relationship.

Kind of hoping Scouse and GU22 will pick on this this?

Many thanks,

Ollie

[the scouser]

Hi Ollie,

First off, I'm afraid that your step-son will have to complete a separate application form at an additional cost of £260.00. For both, state an approximate date by which you would like to travel but, to be honest, it's not really that relevant unless you are not looking to go to the UK for another couple of months.

Applicants are not always called for interview now. Quite a few applications are decided on papers only, so I'd include all of the supporting documents with the applications. Indeed, the embassy now states that incomplete applications might now be refused solely for that reason.

Your wife's studies aren't integral to a settlement application, but I would still mention them and they then give the ECO an indication of how she will occupy her time once in the UK.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Ollie]

Scouse

Many thanks for a quick response.

So for the step son, is it the same SV application form? Although not the same one as completed for the wife! Obviously, it will be submitted at the same time - so can it logically sit in same folder - there's no other information to add as he's just 3.5 years old! Maybe I should have mentioned that in my opening post?

My aim is to complete everything on Saturday, Sunday is too important a day with a certain game taking place and your man at the centre of our chances! But importantly, a lot of work has already been done and most relevant documents are already in LOS and then in a week or so's time, we'll sit in front of a messenger together to build the file at the LOS end.

If only I could find my birth certificate?!

Thanks again,

Ollie

[GU22]

So for the step son, is it the same SV application form? Although not the same one as completed for the wife! Obviously, it will be submitted at the same time - so can it logically sit in same folder - there's no other information to add as he's just 3.5 years old!

Yes, you will need to complete a second application form for the boy, and pay a second fee!

You will need to include:-

His birth certificate.

Papers granting his mother sole custody issued by an Ampur or court; or the father's death certificate.

Submit both applications together in the same folder. Obviously, the evidence of finance and accommodation you have already gathered for his mother will be ok for him too.

It was six years ago, but when I applied for my wife and step-daughter we were told by the visa section that if the evidence was ok for my wife and she was granted the visa then her daughter would automatically get one too. Provided I could support and accommodate them both and my wife had sole custody or the father was dead.

[Ollie]

Thanks both, for such prompt responses.

The only mention of my wife having sole custody is on the divorce papers from the Amphur (translated into English, which will be submitted with the Thai version), so I guess that will have to suffice.

I'll let you know how we get on in due course.

Many thanks

Ollie

[GU22]

If the divorce papers definitely say that she has sole custody, then they will suffice.

[Ollie]

If the divorce papers definitely say that she has sole custody, then they will suffice.

OK, this is what is written on the divorce papers signed by my wife and her ex and wiitnessed by others:

"They have 1 child, namely, master x. The child is put under the female party's custody power."

Thats it! Seems unequivical to me?

I'd appreciate your feedback.

[GU22]

Seems ok to me too.

My wife's ex wouldn't play ball, so she had to go to court to get custody, so I can't say exactly what an Ampur custody document says, I'm afraid.

However, the lengthy court document granting her custody can be summed up in the simple phrase you quote above.

[Ollie]

Well, my wife was at the VFS this morning, paid to have the papers checked and was told that she needed to have a letter confirming custody from the local Amphur Office where she got divorced.

That the Embassy wouldn't accept the application otherwise.

Any views on this? The divorce papers state, ""They have 1 child, namely, master x. The child is put under the female party's custody power."

Thats it - are we really required to pay about 3k baht to get that added in a letter - what else can the local Amphur provide?

Urgent advice sought, as my wife is due to stay in Bkk for one more night and can re-submit first thing tomorrow morning.

[GU22]

You have two choices.

You can return to your wife's home Ampur and get the document they require.

You can insist on submitting the application as is. In which case VFS will want her to sign to say that they have advised her that the documents are incomplete.

As I said, my wife had a lengthy court documents granting her sole custody, so I can't say for sure. But it seems to me that your wife's divorce papers do grant her sole custody.

It's your decision, but I would be tempted to insist on the application going through to the visa section as it stands. I still feel that the wording on the divorce papers will be sufficient.

However, if I am wrong then she risks being refused, in which case she will have to apply again once she has the papers sorted out.

[the scouser]

Hi Ollie,

It is the immigration rules which govern whether the visa will be issued or not and a requirement of the relevant paragraph is:-

one parent is present and settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted on the same occasion for settlement and has had sole responsibility for the child's upbringing

It is my belief that an official court document which stipulates that your wife has custody of the child, is sufficient to demonstrate to the balance of probabilities that the quoted criteria is met: particularly if the child also appears on your wife's tabian baan.

The staff at the visa application centre are not visa officers and cannot refuse to take in an application. Your wife can insist that they accept it.

Scouse.

[Ollie]

Hi Ollie,

It is the immigration rules which govern whether the visa will be issued or not and a requirement of the relevant paragraph is:-

one parent is present and settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted on the same occasion for settlement and has had sole responsibility for the child's upbringing

It is my belief that an official court document which stipulates that your wife has custody of the child, is sufficient to demonstrate to the balance of probabilities that the quoted criteria is met: particularly if the child also appears on your wife's tabian baan.

The staff at the visa application centre are not visa officers and cannot refuse to take in an application. Your wife can insist that they accept it.

Scouse.

Still investigating this - this is what my wife was told:

"sorry , now i know what the enquiry, yes i ask and they say if i don't want to lose 40000, i have to do what the VFS want"

That is outrageous!!!!

[GU22]

If the VFS staff feel that the application is lacking, then they will advise the applicant not to submit it until the perceived problem is solved. However, they cannot refuse to accept it and forward it to the visa section.

Tell her to insist.

Edited August 16, 2006 by GU22

[Ollie]

If the VFS staff feel that the application is lacking, then they will advise the applicant not to submit it until the perceived problem is solved. However, they cannot refuse to accept it and forward it to the visa section.

Tell her to insist.

Thanks GU22 and scouse,

The wife contacted the Amphur in Chumpuang who have stated they can providee such a letter but it will say no more or less thatn what is already on the divorce papers, an original copy of which was supplied with our application. She is heading there from Bkk to get this as I write, becuae she feels more comfortable about this, even though ahe also has the tabien baan as mentioned by Scouse.

My gripe is that we have spent a long time on the preperation of this application and checked all the requirements. In this aspect of the application, proving custody, the UK visa service and embassy are consistent - for once - in what needs to be proved, as outline by Scouse, above.

If the VFS are now applying different standards, then that should be recorded somewhere for everyone to see. I think the "pre-check" is a good idea, no-one wants to waste time with applications that fall woefully short - at cost. But I wonder if its to do with a "performance target" linked to a financial return in the contact with VFS (or whoever) to reduce the nuber of applicatins that can't be fully considered due to being incomplete, and that to meet this they have created their "own" criteria?

In all other respects, our application, was given the green light. My wife will get the letter tomorrow, then travel back overnight to hand in the application on Friday morning and then head back again - this time only as far as Khorat.

Thats a lot of hassle for doing things right!

[saranagon]

Hi Ollie

Let me know how you get on with this ,as i am about to do the same thing with step-son age 4 and half ,At the moment wifes parents are taking care of son with no father ever being present ,i am hoping this does not have an effect on sv.

Also let me know timescale you are looking at from point of puting in application to getting visa,

I agree with exact checklists ,this has always been a grey area

Good luck anyway

[the scouser]

It's not for the employee at the VFS to say that you will lose 40,000 baht if you do not submit a letter from the amphur. This constitutes them deciding the application and is a massive abuse of their position. The problem is that few Thai will stand up to them and tell them they're talking through their posterior.

The same has been seen in Pakistan and India where the VFS also operate: the staff set themselves up as experts in immigration law and sow huge amounts of disinformation.

Scouse.

[Ollie]

It's not for the employee at the VFS to say that you will lose 40,000 baht if you do not submit a letter from the amphur. This constitutes them deciding the application and is a massive abuse of their position. The problem is that few Thai will stand up to them and tell them they're talking through their posterior.

The same has been seen in Pakistan and India where the VFS also operate: the staff set themselves up as experts in immigration law and sow huge amounts of disinformation.

Scouse.

I think that is probaly true, scouse. I tried to get her to go back based on the information provided here especially after she had spoken to the Amphur. But at of the end of the day it was really down to her to do what she was comfortable with doing.

She was really worried about losing the application fee - as I should be I guess! - and its only 2 more days. But another huge round trip and hassle for her, 1 night of a hotel fee wasted, and the cost of paying for the letter, travel etc. She'll be on an overnight bus tomorrow to be at the VFS first thing on Friday.

I suppose, if it is possible, it would have been better if I could have been there, but that just wasn't possible. If all goes well, I might pick this up later with the Embassy.

[Ollie]

Well, heres an update for any lost souls out there, as my wife has sounded like one since the above emerged.

She got home late on Wednesday and her mother had already been into the Amphur to tell them what they were going to do!!! My wife was there first thing this morning and had to wait about three hours before I got a happy text that she had the letter! The very letter, that, er, says exactly what the divorce papers say.

Then another text, that the document had been faxed off to "our" translation office and currently she is, I guess, fast akip, on the overnight bus to Bangers. The plan is that she will pick up the doc in the morning and then sraight on to the VFS.

Resolute lady!

[the scouser]

Very much so, Ollie.

I take onboard that this is the way your wife wished to play it, but I hope that she's saved all the receipts and, when she gets the visa, she will sue the buggers at the VFS for having messed her around.

Scouse.

[saranagon]

Do you need to get the letter from Amphur Translated ?I never knew that one

Who and where can do this one in Bkk ?

[Mossfinn]

Do you need to get the letter from Amphur Translated ?I never knew that one

Who and where can do this one in Bkk ?

Hi sarangon, I suppose there are many places where you can get all manner of official Docs translated with an official stamp but I have used two.

One is Yardley International law office.

Apparently they are Lawyers as well as Detectives?

They use a very cramped and what looks (is) a very disorganized office on Silom Road.

Ben Yardley

763 Silom Rd

Soi 15

02-2545731

They always did my translations on time and reasonably priced even if the Office looked pretty un-inviting.

As you walk along Silom toward the Silom center and past Silom and Convent it is perhaps 200 Meters on the right hand side. (Some time since I have been there, could be a little awry this distance.)

The other is on the other side of Silom, walking past O'Reillys and past the steps for the BTS and it is above a coffee shop/small restaurant, even longer since I have been there, can't remember the name of the Office or Restaurant, but fairly easy to find.

Scant information but hope it helps.

Good Luck

Moss

[Ollie]

There is a whole host of translation services next to Ploenchit station on the junction with Wireless Road. We used "Express". They were excellent, faxed stuff in advance and collected when needed.

[saranagon]

cheers guys

Hope all goes well your visa Ollie,I,m Hoping to get everything done and dusted in 9 days,don,t know if it will help for me to be there but it,s an excuse to have a wee trip over by.

[Ollie]

cheers guys

Hope all goes well your visa Ollie,I,m Hoping to get everything done and dusted in 9 days,don,t know if it will help for me to be there but it,s an excuse to have a wee trip over by.

Thanks - and to you - I'll let you know what happened. According to the tracking service, our docs have now been forwarded to the embassy.