Kerry attacks Russia over MH17 crash

[webfact]

MH17 plane crash: Kerry points finger at Russia

WASHINGTON: -- US Secretary of State John Kerry says there is overwhelming evidence of Russian complicity in the downing of a Malaysia Airlines plane in Ukraine.

Mr Kerry called on Russia to take responsibility for the actions of the rebels, saying their handling of the dead had been "grotesque".

All 298 people on flight MH17 died when it was reportedly hit by a missile.

Russia has been accused of providing the rebels with an anti-aircraft system that was allegedly used in the attack.

Earlier, the remains of up to 196 people were loaded on to refrigerated rail wagons in eastern Ukraine, to be taken to an unknown destination.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28396862


-- BBC 2014-07-21

[Scott]

A post deleted. I believe this topic is about the downing of the Malaysian airliner. Please stay on topic.

[lostsoul49]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

[tomyummer]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

Well, one American dead on the flight pretty much allows the US government and investigators a way in.

And you're right, until the hard evidence comes in it's hard to find fault just yet. Those pro Russian rebel coversations could have been faked. Although I don't think Ukrainians are smart enough to do it in reaction that fast.

[janpharma]

...Barbarians...

[rebeli]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

They put that evidence in the same place where they left the evidence of the weapons of mass destruction in irak.

[lovetotravel]

This article summarizes things quite well. Russia is definitely involved with the rebels. How far, nobody really knows right now. But they are definitely involved:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/20/world/europe/ukraine-rebels-weapons/

Wherever they came from, Russian language websites soon featured calls for people with military skills to call a number associated with the separatist Donetsk People's Republic if they could help operate or maintain the tanks.

One answered, "I served in the military engineering academy...and am a former commander in the intelligence."

[lostsoul49]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

Well, one American dead on the flight pretty much allows the US government and investigators a way in.

And you're right, until the hard evidence comes in it's hard to find fault just yet. Those pro Russian rebel coversations could have been faked. Although I don't think Ukrainians are smart enough to do it in reaction that fast.

I think between the two possibilities of the Ukraine government coming up with this so called evidence within hours (far too fast for comfort) and the possibility that they already had this concocted before the incident which is a lot more realistic.

I know which one sounds more logical to me.

Someone is attempting to trigger a war, and I doubt it is the Russians.

[lovetotravel]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

Well, one American dead on the flight pretty much allows the US government and investigators a way in.

And you're right, until the hard evidence comes in it's hard to find fault just yet. Those pro Russian rebel coversations could have been faked. Although I don't think Ukrainians are smart enough to do it in reaction that fast.

I think between the two possibilities of the Ukraine government coming up with this so called evidence within hours (far too fast for comfort) and the possibility that they already had this concocted before the incident which is a lot more realistic.

I know which one sounds more logical to me.

Someone is attempting to trigger a war, and I doubt it is the Russians.

The Russians already triggered a war when they invaded the sovereign territory of the Ukraine months ago.

[NeverSure]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

I posted quotes from reliable sources in another thread. The US satellite network with infrared sensors saw that missile leave the ground, and saw it hit the plane. They even knew what speed it was traveling and what type of Russian missile it was. High ranking military personnel from the US went on record about it.

It is also widely believed that the rebels don't, by themselves, have the training to fire that missile and hit the plane.

Kerry isn't just blowing smoke. They've already announced the evidence they have and have blamed it on the Russians.

Now Putin is in full CYA mode and an international team can't get in there to do a decent handling of the bodies or to do an expert investigation.

PS Your all caps key just makes you sound more adamantly wrong.

Edited July 21, 2014 by NeverSure

[SDM0712]

Someone is attempting to trigger a war, and I doubt it is the Russians.

There will never be a war between Russia and another superior power or major country. All sides know that cannot end well.

But this is exactly right, it is either someone playing with a new toy, aiming it into a distant jet and pulling the trigger to see what will happen, or it is, as you say, an attempt to raise the game, to bring every major country to the table and up the stakes. But they misjudge most of us, perhaps they think this will make us put pressure on our governments to force a peaceful solution. It doesn't, and only speaking for myself, what is needed is for the person who pulled the trigger to die, then the people who gave him the weapon to die, then the people who sold him the weapon to die, then everyone who supports his cause to die. And that's why thankfully I'm not in politics!

Personally I think it's the first case that some drunk fool has been playing with equipment that he has a very basic working knowledge of and has seen the distant plane and thought it would be amusing to see what would happen, but never thinking he would actually shoot the plane down. After all 33,000 feet is six miles or ten kilometres up. It would appear as a tiny prick to the naked eye at ground level. Quite frankly I'm amazed and shocked that the missile could even reach its target. We will never know for sure and hopefully no one like me is making the big decisions.

SDM

[ggt]

Blaming Russia was to be expected from the US...Russia is the villain...so the spin goes...Kerry is just doing his job...it comes down from the top...

[BudRight]

Wow, it can either be an elaborate conspiracy involving many players in multiple countries...or it can be a tragic accident by trigger happy morons.

Edited July 21, 2014 by BudRight

[animatic]

This type and size of Russian weapon can not possible have arrived in Ukrainian rebel hands without direct acquiescence and complicit actions of the Russian military.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[laolover88]

Have yet to see ANY evidence or explanation why Russians or so-called 'rebels' benefit from bringing down a plane.

Funny how the spin goes on and on about 'Russia' 'helping' rebels...Nobody ''helping " Kiev, then? And now Kiev, if they can massage/lose evidence think they have a lot to gain. Funny how Russia says little, Malaysia says little, Netherlands says little...only Kerry and Oz loosing off wildly. Does not take a lot of brains to run rings round Kerry, does it? Whole thing stinks.

Edited July 21, 2014 by laolover88

[tingtongteesood]

There is hard evidence, just look for it. The tapped phone call, eye witness reports etc....A lot of speculation too I must admit though.

[pitrevie]

Well if you have nothing to hide then why stop the international investigators going to the crash scene and looking for the evidence of what brought this plane down?

[Cats4ever]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

The two groups who had the capability to shoot the airliner down are Ukraine and the Russian supported rebels. The Ukraine would have air traffic control over the flight zone and would know what aircraft it was. They would not have been shooting down their own planes, and the rebels don't have any. Russian backed rebels have got a humoungous rocket, some trained people and a possible Ukraine Antonov above them. Let her rip.

Yes, let us wait for more evidence, but there is enough here to demand some answers.

[lovetotravel]

Have yet to see ANY evidence or explanation why Russians or so-called 'rebels' benefit from bringing down a plane.

Funny how the spin goes on and on about 'Russia' 'helping' rebels...Nobody ''helping " Kiev, then? And now Kiev, if they can massage/lose evidence think they have a lot to gain. Funny how Russia says little, Malaysia says little, Netherlands says little...only Kerry and Oz loosing off wildly. Does not take a lot of brains to run rings round Kerry, does it? Whole thing stinks.

No hard evidence yet, other than a missile launch detected from within territory they control. And of course the other planes they've downed lately in the exact same area and took full responsibility for. All indicators are pointing to the rebels as the cause of this.

Spin about Russia helping rebels? It's a widely known fact. Reported by many different news agencies with people on the ground. As for the other countries, they are saying a lot. Same with Russia and their loud denials.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/10978756/MH17-plane-crash-Dutch-PM-Mark-Rutte-warns-Vladimir-Putin-he-has-one-last-chance.html

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/20/Australia-PM-says-MH17-crash-site-chaotic

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/18/malaysia-airlines-crash-world-leaders-condemn-attack-video

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. Please stay on topic and do not post in an inflammatory manner.

[spidermike007]

So come on Mr Kerry..... where is all this OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE??????

Or are you SPECULATING on the commentary supplied by the Ukraine government which happens to be the sworn enemy of Russia and vice versa?????

If you want a war with Russia, just grow some and do it.

Keep your dirty nose out, this is NONE of your business. You have just as much blood on your own hands.

I posted quotes from reliable sources in another thread. The US satellite network with infrared sensors saw that missile leave the ground, and saw it hit the plane. They even knew what speed it was traveling and what type of Russian missile it was. High ranking military personnel from the US went on record about it.

It is also widely believed that the rebels don't, by themselves, have the training to fire that missile and hit the plane.

Kerry isn't just blowing smoke. They've already announced the evidence they have and have blamed it on the Russians.

Now Putin is in full CYA mode and an international team can't get in there to do a decent handling of the bodies or to do an expert investigation.

PS Your all caps key just makes you sound more adamantly wrong.

And the more the rebels prevent the investigators from doing their jobs, interferring with the international community, and denying complete access, the guiltier they look. And the guiltier they make Putin look. King Vladimir is looking very, very guilty at the moment. Maybe he cannot behave exactly as he pleases, whenever and where ever he wants? Maybe even this megalomaniacal swine has limits? It has been suggested this attack would have required some technical training, as well as a rather sophisticated missile system. What are the chances of the rebels having both, without direct Russian support? Small, one would guess. Putin is looking guiltier by the moment, especially in light of his lack of help and assistance. Bad bad boy.

Spidermike007

[snooky]

NSA probably knew within minutes where the missile came from and its trajectory using their satellites which are known to be trained on that area. And one of the top dogs in the 'rebel's is a Russian who was/is with the Russian GRU in a commanding position. Reports are that most of the cadre and so called 'mlitia' are actually Russian troops or volunteers. You can Google most of this info. Those of you who doubt they are doing this might ask the Poles, Finns, Czechs, Hungarians et al, just what Russians are capable of. I am not allowed to use language like that on this board.

Further suggestion, How about all of the countries who had passengers on MH 17 deny entry into their countries for anyone with a Russian passport for a period of at least three months or more. Sorry to step on the travelers toes, but in view of the heavy censorship in Russia, the average person there probably has no idea of how appalled and angry the rest of the world is. Possibly they could learn something about their beloved Thug-in-charge and wake up at their next election - if they have they actually ever have a really free election.

The money their local travel agencies and hotels lost could be paid by their own governments in lieu of foreign aid to other countries.

Edited July 21, 2014 by snooky

[StasD]

i do not believe any politics, specially americans. Kerry plays his game and MH17 crash helps him to do it does not matter who shot it

[Lokie]

Seems the the pro Russian rebels had been bragging over Twitter accounts of having the BUK missile system and bringing down Ukrainian military aircraft over last few weeks, mysteriously the Twitter account history has now been erased relating to these tweets???

Bloody disgusting, and now using the dead as bargaining chips to show who has a bit of power? RIP to all the innocent and hopefully the perps will burn in hell one day for this act of cowardly mass murder

[3NUMBAS]

where is this evidence they keep on about ,like the weapons of mass destruction that never were .

if the hitech yanks can shoot down an airliner then anyone can.

the russkies claim there was a military plane in the sky at the time so whos plane was it ?

Edited July 21, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[Roadman]

Seems the the pro Russian rebels had been bragging over Twitter accounts of having the BUK missile system and bringing down Ukrainian military aircraft over last few weeks, mysteriously the Twitter account history has now been erased relating to these tweets???

Bloody disgusting, and now using the dead as bargaining chips to show who has a bit of power? RIP to all the innocent and hopefully the perps will burn in hell one day for this act of cowardly mass murder

That info was captured however before the Ukrainian separatists deleted it. Add all the other bits and pieces of early info captured from social media and other groups in the area along with the American satellites tracking the missile that did the damage it was not difficult to know the guilty scum bags are Ukrainian separatists with Russian military support.

Sadly your wish that the cowardly (possibly wrong on that call as one would consider it is probably not cowardice but incompetence - ie - not identifying the target they had locked onto) perps will burn in hell one day for their mass murder is probably going to be the only justice that will be available. Putin is the only one who can see justice dispensed and he is not going to rain on his parade of his separatist backed regime claiming the Ukraine into the Russian empire. Good on Kerry and the Americans on behalf of the world community for calling these scum for what they are. Putin may slim his way out of it but at least the world knows the piece of slime for what he is. Personally think sanctions would be great like immediately taking the 2018 Fifa World Cup off Russia for a start along with economic embargo's. However slapping sanctions would be cold comfort if it turned to tit for tat to the Germans who were not among the causalities (?) wanting their gas heater warmth in the middle of a European winter.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Roadman

[pedro01]

So what is Mr Kerry suggesting that Russia do?

When the US shot down an airliner in 1988, they issued no apology (and still havent) and sent a few hundred thousand dollars to the families of the dead.

Is this the response he is looking for?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[lovetotravel]

So what is Mr Kerry suggesting that Russia do?

When the US shot down an airliner in 1988, they issued no apology (and still havent) and sent a few hundred thousand dollars to the families of the dead.

Is this the response he is looking for?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

What the US has been asking for all along. Leave Ukraine alone, quit funding the rebels, and have your military personnel depart sovereign Ukraine territory. Pretty simple.

[chuckd]

So what is Mr Kerry suggesting that Russia do?

When the US shot down an airliner in 1988, they issued no apology (and still havent) and sent a few hundred thousand dollars to the families of the dead.

Is this the response he is looking for?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Just to set the record straight.

The total payment made by the US government was $61.8 Million..paying $213,103.45 PER PASSENGER.

Considerably more than..."a few hundred thousand dollars to the families of the dead."

I agree Kerry is an empty suit but where are the European leaders and what are they doing?

[pedro01]

So what is Mr Kerry suggesting that Russia do?

When the US shot down an airliner in 1988, they issued no apology (and still havent) and sent a few hundred thousand dollars to the families of the dead.

Is this the response he is looking for?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Just to set the record straight.

The total payment made by the US government was $61.8 Million..paying $213,103.45 PER PASSENGER.

Considerably more than..."a few hundred thousand dollars to the families of the dead."

I agree Kerry is an empty suit but where are the European leaders and what are they doing?

Exactly what I said. A few hundred thousand to the families.

Did the lack of the word 'each' trigger an OCD event or something?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand