Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

On the advice of UbonJoe I'm reposting a question here.

 

 I will be obtaining a new passport in London next month through the one day quick service.When returning to Bangkok is it just a matter of showing the Airport Immigration Officer the old passport with the multiple re-entry? Presumably he/she will stamp the white book as well as the new passport ? Then I presume a trip to CW is needed to transfer the multiple re-entry to the new passport and amend the white book/red book as necessary? Is there a time limit to get all this done?

 

All pretty obvious I suppose but forewarned is forearmed.If some kind person could advise that would be most helpful.

 

The norm for Immigration is that PRs obtain a new passport in country and go to CW to put that in the system and transfer the necessary stamps and signatures. Personally i would want to check with Immigration first before returning to the Kingdom with a completely blank new passport that is not in their system. Logically they can handle this and must do so in the case where a PR has lost his passport abroad and returns with a new one. But logic is not something that is always in use at Immigration. Personally I would rather get a new passport at the Trendy building which is quite painless, although it takes a couple of weeks to get it back, and go through the normal process at CW after that, rather than risking being delayed by an IO at Suwarnabhumi when I am exhausted from a long flight. 

 

I once got a new passport in the UK as a Thai PR but that was a second UK passport without any Thai visas in it.  They apparently had no way of knowing it was a second passport in those days, or just didn't care, and sent the new one in the mail to my mother's address with no questions asked and I picked it up on my next trip to the UK.  Nowadays they put you through the third degree asking for justification why they should issue or renew a second passport. For the first second passport I just told them I needed to travel to pre-Rainbow South Africa and black African countries for business (in those days countries like Nigeria would either not let you in or ask for a big dose of squeeze, if they saw any evidence you had travelled to South Africa - same with Saudi vis a vis Israel).  I had a second UK one for three decades but let the last one expire.  It used to be useful to fill up with non-Thai visas so that I could make the main passport last longer, although I never got one to last for the full 10 years.  Now I have a Thai pasport the full page Thai visa stamps are no longer an issue.

[jayboy]

29 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

The norm for Immigration is that PRs obtain a new passport in country and go to CW to put that in the system and transfer the necessary stamps and signatures. Personally i would want to check with Immigration first before returning to the Kingdom with a completely blank new passport that is not in their system. Logically they can handle this and must do so in the case where a PR has lost his passport abroad and returns with a new one. But logic is not something that is always in use at Immigration. Personally I would rather get a new passport at the Trendy building which is quite painless, although it takes a couple of weeks to get it back, and go through the normal process at CW after that, rather than risking being delayed by an IO at Suwarnabhumi when I am exhausted from a long flight. 

 

I once got a new passport in the UK as a Thai PR but that was a second UK passport without any Thai visas in it.  They apparently had no way of knowing it was a second passport in those days, or just didn't care, and sent the new one in the mail to my mother's address with no questions asked and I picked it up on my next trip to the UK.  Nowadays they put you through the third degree asking for justification why they should issue or renew a second passport. For the first second passport I just told them I needed to travel to pre-Rainbow South Africa and black African countries for business (in those days countries like Nigeria would either not let you in or ask for a big dose of squeeze, if they saw any evidence you had travelled to South Africa - same with Saudi vis a vis Israel).  I had a second UK one for three decades but let the last one expire.  It used to be useful to fill up with non-Thai visas so that I could make the main passport last longer, although I never got one to last for the full 10 years.  Now I have a Thai pasport the full page Thai visa stamps are no longer an issue.

Many thanks for this excellent advice.The prospect of a long boring discussion with an IO when I'm in a state of exhaustion is certainly to be avoided.

 

Having said that, I have now done what I should have done earlier, namely to check what I did 10 years ago when renewing my current passport (also one day service in UK). It was in fact very simple on the Thai side - just carry old and new passports when travelling and use until multiple entry in old is due to expire, then renew at Immigration in usual way.As to a puzzled IO at the airport,I don't recall any issue arising.Of course the old passport was in the system.

 

But perhaps I should renew my passport locally.It might all be a bit easier especially as I have a feeling the UK end might not be running at peak efficiency (Brexit etc)

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

12 hours ago, jayboy said:

On the advice of UbonJoe I'm reposting a question here.

 

 I will be obtaining a new passport in London next month through the one day quick service.When returning to Bangkok is it just a matter of showing the Airport Immigration Officer the old passport with the multiple re-entry? Presumably he/she will stamp the white book as well as the new passport ? Then I presume a trip to CW is needed to transfer the multiple re-entry to the new passport and amend the white book/red book as necessary? Is there a time limit to get all this done?

 

All pretty obvious I suppose but forewarned is forearmed.If some kind person could advise that would be most helpful.

 

 

I obtained a new passport abroad four years ago and gave the immigration officer both the old and new passports along with the white residence book when entering at Suvarnabhumi. There is a one-line notation under the entry stamp in the new passport which refers to the re-entry permit in the old one. White book stamped as usual near the endorsement. One week later, I went to CW to get a new re-entry permit and endorsement. Both were granted without any extra paperwork or explanation other than a verbal confirmation that the old re-entry and endorsement would be cancelled. The old re-entry and endorsement were near expiry, so this was not an issue. I have no direct experience of transferring a valid re-entry permit to a new passport.

 

I was granted PR more than 20 years ago and have renewed my passport a couple of times since. The only times I have gone to the police station apart from the 1-year anniversary of obtaining PR were the regular 5-year visits. Red book contains the passport number of the passport I had when I obtained PR, but none of the stamps or markings from subsequent visits contain the passport numbers of later passports. Nothing was ever said about having to make interim visits to update passport info in case of a change and I have not heard of any such requirement. 

 

 

[scorecard]

51 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I obtained a new passport abroad four years ago and gave the immigration officer both the old and new passports along with the white residence book when entering at Suvarnabhumi. There is a one-line notation under the entry stamp in the new passport which refers to the re-entry permit in the old one. White book stamped as usual near the endorsement. One week later, I went to CW to get a new re-entry permit and endorsement. Both were granted without any extra paperwork or explanation other than a verbal confirmation that the old re-entry and endorsement would be cancelled. The old re-entry and endorsement were near expiry, so this was not an issue. I have no direct experience of transferring a valid re-entry permit to a new passport.

 

I was granted PR more than 20 years ago and have renewed my passport a couple of times since. The only times I have gone to the police station apart from the 1-year anniversary of obtaining PR were the regular 5-year visits. Red book contains the passport number of the passport I had when I obtained PR, but none of the stamps or markings from subsequent visits contain the passport numbers of later passports. Nothing was ever said about having to make interim visits to update passport info in case of a change and I have not heard of any such requirement. 

 

 

Same.

[thedemon]

21 hours ago, jayboy said:

On the advice of UbonJoe I'm reposting a question here.

 

 I will be obtaining a new passport in London next month through the one day quick service.When returning to Bangkok is it just a matter of showing the Airport Immigration Officer the old passport with the multiple re-entry? Presumably he/she will stamp the white book as well as the new passport ? Then I presume a trip to CW is needed to transfer the multiple re-entry to the new passport and amend the white book/red book as necessary? Is there a time limit to get all this done?

 

All pretty obvious I suppose but forewarned is forearmed.If some kind person could advise that would be most helpful.

 

 

 

CW don't transfer the re-entry/endorsement stamps even if you ask them to. When travelling you just have to carry old and new passports until expiry of the re-entry. In my experience it doesn't faze the airport IO's.

 

It doesn't make any difference whether the new passport is issued in Bangkok or abroad.

 

The only slight hassle is if you are registered for Autochannel. In that case the system has to be updated and a new sticker placed in your new passport. You can do that at airport Immigration either on departure next to the overstay counter or on arrival at the office near the premium channel. In the past there have been issues with the software when linking a new passport with a new residence certificate but that seems to be resolved.

[scorecard]

8 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

CW don't transfer the re-entry/endorsement stamps even if you ask them to. When travelling you just have to carry old and new passports until expiry of the re-entry. In my experience it doesn't faze the airport IO's.

 

The only slight hassle is if you are registered for Autochannel. In that case the system has to be updated and a new sticker placed in your new passport. You can do that at airport Immigration either on departure next to the overstay counter or on arrival at the office near the premium channel. In the past there have been issues with the software when linking a new passport with a new residence certificate but that seems to be resolved.

I confirm the above in regard to transfer of the stamps. I have PR. Late last year I had my full Asutralian passport replaced (sent from Canberra).

 

Quickly after I received my new passport I was at immigration in Chiang Mai with a buddy who was doing his annual renewal of retirement visa. When he was finished I asked the same officer about transferring my exit/re-entry stamp from old to new passport. She said 'let me check' and quickly the main officer for PR matters appeared (speaks good English) and she reconfirmed my question.

 

Her response was 'it's not necessary at all, just show old and new passports'. She then re-checked the expirt date for my exit/re-entry stamp and said 'look forward to seeing  you again in about 3 months'.

 

 

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

I confirm the above in regard to transfer of the stamps. I have PR. Late last year I had my full Asutralian passport replaced (sent from Canberra).

 

Quickly after I received my new passport I was at immigration in Chiang Mai with a buddy who was doing his annual renewal of retirement visa. When he was finished I asked the same officer about transferring my exit/re-entry stamp from old to new passport. She said 'let me check' and quickly the main officer for PR matters appeared (speaks good English) and she reconfirmed my question.

 

Her response was 'it's not necessary at all, just show old and new passports'. She then re-checked the expirt date for my exit/re-entry stamp and said 'look forward to seeing  you again in about 3 months'.

 

 

I can confirm this. When I asked to transfer the stamp, they recommend not to do it: The one in the old passport was valid for another 6 months or so, and if I get a new stamp in the new passport (they don't transfer), I'd have to pay and it would be valid for 1 year from date of the new issuance. They told me to just bring both passports when I travel. The stamp in the old passport remains valid, even if the passport isn't any more.

[THAIJAMES]

Are permanent residents guaranteed entry into Thailand even from covid high-risk countries?

 

I'm currently in the Canary islands which is relatively safe but part of Spain I'm afraid that people from Spain may in the near future be denied entry into Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Are permanent residents guaranteed entry into Thailand even from covid high-risk countries?

I doubt very much that they would deny you entry.

At the most you could be put on self quarantine for 14 days. 

[brianinbangkok]

Hi, after renewing my Thai PR for the last 10 years living abroad (EU) I have let it go due to in part travel restrictions and risk of infection, as I know : not returning within a year cancels the PR and this is set in stone. However I do remember a guy from the amateur radio club who was able to re-apply and got it back the next year.

Paid 97k fee.

He was no longer working when he did this. Now my question is has anybody done this recently ? My guess a few others might be in same situation soon.

Do you need 3 years WP again and start all over ?

If so I will go for a Thai passport as I am married to a Thai.

 

It's not an urgent issue as I no longer live in TH but may return one day.

 

PS anybody got a phone number of PR section.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, brianinbangkok said:

Hi, after renewing my Thai PR for the last 10 years living abroad (EU) I have let it go due to in part travel restrictions and risk of infection, as I know : not returning within a year cancels the PR and this is set in stone. However I do remember a guy from the amateur radio club who was able to re-apply and got it back the next year.

Paid 97k fee.

He was no longer working when he did this. Now my question is has anybody done this recently ? My guess a few others might be in same situation soon.

Do you need 3 years WP again and start all over ?

If so I will go for a Thai passport as I am married to a Thai.

 

It's not an urgent issue as I no longer live in TH but may return one day.

 

PS anybody got a phone number of PR section.

I know someone who got his PR cancelled because he was unable to get back in time due to circumstances that were demonstrably beyond his control.  Immigration was very sympathetic and and helped him reapply and he got it back within a year but he was still working at the time.  I don't know if they can readily make an exception to the WP requirement for former PRs reapplying but it would be worth asking, if you want it back.  For Thai citizenship you need 3 years' WP, although the minimum salary is only 40k, if married to a Thai.  I can't see them waiving the work requirement for citizenship.

[ubonjoe]

They forgot  those on PR who don't have a valid work permit when they wrote the latest restrictions.

Those with PR should of been given the same status as Thai nationals. If somebody with PR and no work permit should contact the Thai embassy to find out if they can help to issue a "fit to fly" letter and some sort special entry allowance for them.

For those that are not aware of the latest restrictions under the emergency decree info is here.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They forgot  those on PR who don't have a valid work permit when they wrote the latest restrictions.

Those with PR should of been given the same status as Thai nationals. If somebody with PR and no work permit should contact the Thai embassy to find out if they can help to issue a "fit to fly" letter and some sort special entry allowance for them.

For those that are not aware of the latest restrictions under the emergency decree info is here.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

Joe, would you please look at your PMs.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Joe, would you please look at your PMs.

i replied to one you sent on Wednesday.

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

i replied to one you sent on Wednesday.

Sorry I'm causing confusion, I made another post to you just 1 minute ago. 

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They forgot  those on PR who don't have a valid work permit when they wrote the latest restrictions.

Those with PR should of been given the same status as Thai nationals. If somebody with PR and no work permit should contact the Thai embassy to find out if they can help to issue a "fit to fly" letter and some sort special entry allowance for them.

For those that are not aware of the latest restrictions under the emergency decree info is here.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

Permanent residents should have a prior claim over people on temporary visas with work permits. I agree that  PRs without work permits have been overlooked in drafting the regulations and I doubt that most Thai embassy staff abroad are familiar with PR, since they normally have nothing to do with it.  Who would normally carry their WP with them overseas anyway, specially if you have PR?

 

China has been more specific in actually prohibiting entry by foreingers with residence visas whcih are much harder to obtain than Thai PR. Tough luck for anyone who doesn't have anywhere else to live and is stranded away from family.

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

i replied to one you sent on Wednesday.

Joe,

 

After some failed attempts i sen you a PM 1 minute ago. Sorry to care confusion.

[smutcakes]

I had my main PR interview last Wednesday at Chaengwattana. All applicants given gloves, masks etc.

Panel of 3 interviewing and another 2 manning the video camera which i believe is a new initiative this year.

The actual process was very smooth, in and out in about 1.5 hours and the questions were relatively easy.

Now just have to wait 1 or 2 years.... who knows.

Chaengwattana itself was chaos.....

 

[Michael Hare]

I got my new 5-year drivers licence last week in Ubon Ratchathani. One had to listen to the seminar on-line and register with one's ID number and drivers licence number. When the first 5-year driver's licence were issued some years ago, my PR ID number was used. Then 5 years ago they refused to accept my ID number and would only accept my passport number. This time, there was much discussion at the desk about the PR ID number and PR. The ladies there didn't have a clue about PR. Fortunately, the guy in charge knew all about PR and my PR ID number was accepted. 

[Arkady]

31 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

I got my new 5-year drivers licence last week in Ubon Ratchathani. One had to listen to the seminar on-line and register with one's ID number and drivers licence number. When the first 5-year driver's licence were issued some years ago, my PR ID number was used. Then 5 years ago they refused to accept my ID number and would only accept my passport number. This time, there was much discussion at the desk about the PR ID number and PR. The ladies there didn't have a clue about PR. Fortunately, the guy in charge knew all about PR and my PR ID number was accepted. 

It's a pity there is so much ignorance about PR even amongst government officials. It is so difficult and expensive to get it and involves lugging around so many books and photocopies but it often counts for naught, e.g. the recent situation where the emergency decree gave preference to foreigners on one year visas with work permits.

[Bangel72]

Whats the situation regarding Landlord and the need to register foreigners, are PR holders treated the same as Thai's staying somewhere? 

 

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

Whats the situation regarding Landlord and the need to register foreigners, are PR holders treated the same as Thai's staying somewhere? 

 

PR holders do not need a TM30 report done for them it that is what you mean. Same for 90 day reports.

[Neeranam]

On 3/30/2020 at 11:26 AM, smutcakes said:

I had my main PR interview last Wednesday at Chaengwattana. All applicants given gloves, masks etc.

Panel of 3 interviewing and another 2 manning the video camera which i believe is a new initiative this year.

The actual process was very smooth, in and out in about 1.5 hours and the questions were relatively easy.

Now just have to wait 1 or 2 years.... who knows.

Chaengwattana itself was chaos.....

 

Good to hear that the PR process has not been postponed. Hopefully the Citizenship process(involving Special Branch police and Ministry of Interior) will follow suit.

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

Whats the situation regarding Landlord and the need to register foreigners, are PR holders treated the same as Thai's staying somewhere? 

 

PR holders are treated the same as Thais in that they need to get registered in a blue tabien baan book by a householder. Landlords usually don't want to get involved with this for various reasons. So foreign PR's living in rentals often end up getting added to a Thai friend's tabien baan.  Thais usually just stay on their parents' tabien baan, unless/ until they can buy a home of their own.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

PR holders are treated the same as Thais in that they need to get registered in a blue tabien baan book by a householder. Landlords usually don't want to get involved with this for various reasons. So foreign PR's living in rentals often end up getting added to a Thai friend's tabien baan.  Thais usually just stay on their parents' tabien baan, unless/ until they can buy a home of their own.

Example, I'm recorded on the blue tabien baan book for the property owned by my Thai adult son, this entry was made about 8 years ago.

[mortenaa]

On 3/30/2020 at 3:11 PM, Michael Hare said:

I got my new 5-year drivers licence last week in Ubon Ratchathani. One had to listen to the seminar on-line and register with one's ID number and drivers licence number. When the first 5-year driver's licence were issued some years ago, my PR ID number was used. Then 5 years ago they refused to accept my ID number and would only accept my passport number. This time, there was much discussion at the desk about the PR ID number and PR. The ladies there didn't have a clue about PR. Fortunately, the guy in charge knew all about PR and my PR ID number was accepted. 

I also got my new driving license the other day. Even though I brought copies of PR Book, Pink ID card, Tabian Baan etc, the still used my passport number as ID number. I don't see that it makes a difference for my personal life, so I didn't bother to argue about it. 

[Michael Hare]

1 hour ago, mortenaa said:

I also got my new driving license the other day. Even though I brought copies of PR Book, Pink ID card, Tabian Baan etc, the still used my passport number as ID number. I don't see that it makes a difference for my personal life, so I didn't bother to argue about it. 

The problem with passports is they have a limited life and with each new one, a new number is issued. When I clicked in to listen to the on-line seminar about traffic rules etc (compulsory) I used my ID number. Therefore my ID number was in the system. I also took in hard copes of all the books so they could see that the Tabian Baan was a blue book and not a yellow book. But as you say it is not that important. A few years ago I lost my ATM card and when I reported it to the bank they wanted to see the passport that I opened my account number with, which was more than 20 years and three passports ago. After some discussion my new ATM card was issued. Since then, I have changed all my bank accounts over to my ID card. So at any branch of this bank, I only have to show my ID for transactions. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

2 hours ago, mortenaa said:

I also got my new driving license the other day. Even though I brought copies of PR Book, Pink ID card, Tabian Baan etc, the still used my passport number as ID number. I don't see that it makes a difference for my personal life, so I didn't bother to argue about it. 

Last month I renewed my driving license in BKK and thought I could go without the passport, I almost succeeded with Pink ID card actually, just at the last minute to receive my license I was asked to read and sign my information and the form said "Nationality: Thai" (due to PR side-effect I guess) I told I was not Thai citizen to which the answer was "Ok, can you show me your passport?" - fair enough. That's actually one clear limitation of the pink ID: it doesn't say anything about your nationality. 

[Michael Hare]

11 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Last month I renewed my driving license in BKK and thought I could go without the passport, I almost succeeded with Pink ID card actually, just at the last minute to receive my license I was asked to read and sign my information and the form said "Nationality: Thai" (due to PR side-effect I guess) I told I was not Thai citizen to which the answer was "Ok, can you show me your passport?" - fair enough. That's actually one clear limitation of the pink ID: it doesn't say anything about your nationality. 

In Ubon they were not interested in the pink ID card. They didn't even want copies. It was the blue tabian baan book and the old red-brown PR book that they inspected closely and wanted signed copies of every page (which I had). The latter is what the big boss said was most important. 

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

In Ubon they were not interested in the pink ID card. They didn't even want copies. It was the blue tabian baan book and the old red-brown PR book that they inspected closely and wanted signed copies of every page (which I had). The latter is what the big boss said was most important. 

'...the old red-brown PR book...'  I wonder is you mean the red police registration book which you must get updated after first 1 year then every 5 years?