Ducati Monster 821 to replace 796 in Thailand. Soon...

[Shurup]

Went to Ducati Korat today to test ride the Monster 796, after a ride I had a little chat with one of the cute sales girls and found out that the 796 has been discontinued. It will be replaced with Monster 821 model in 2015. I left my email with her so she can forward me all the info she has on the new monster. I really hope what she sends me is more than just the tech specs of the new model - as I easily found that info online, I'm looking to get a price or/and release date...

From reading the online reviews, it appears that the bike has already been released not even a month ago in US, UK and perhaps in few other countries.

Comparing to the 796, the 821 got: larger displacement (821 cc) with 112 HP and 65.8 lb-ft (vs 803 cc, 87 HP and 58 lb-ft of Monster 796 engine), 4 valves per cylinder, liquid cooled, lower longer and wider adjustable height seat, longer wheelbase, the handlebars are higher and closer to the rider, slightly larger (1+ extra gallon) fuel tank, 3 ride modes - Sports, Touring and Urban with Urban mode limiting the power output to 75 HP. Other notable changes that I don't like are: dual sided rear swingarm and the dual exhaust coming off on the right side (twin pipe under the seat, made the 796 stand out from the rest of the bikes). Weight went up too, some 40 lbs heavier than the 796.

A good thing about the new bike is the engine isn't brand new, it's been around for about 3 (???) years now so all the issues have hopefully been ironed out. Only hope the price stays reasonable so the new bike could compete with other Manufacturers and their bikes. Considering the 796 costs 449,000, if the new monster is below the 500,000, it will be a good deal! Lets not forger the 1000cc bikes from Kawasaki and Honda are as low as 600,000 (plus if Kawasaki updates a few things on the z800 and keeps it below 400,000), the new Monster will not stay competitive if over 500K baht.

Now, my impressions regarding the test ride of 796.

1st thing I've noticed as soon as I started it is very nice and throaty sound. The idle speed seems a little too low (comparing to about 1,800 RPM of Ninja 300) and I swear it got even lower at the end of the ride, to the point that I was afraid it would stall on its own if not given more gas, but this probably was my head playing tricks with me after riding the hi revving Ninja. However I stalled it right after coming up a short/steel ramp back into the show room, I shouldn't blame a bike for it, just not getting enough feel for this totally different (comparing to a Ninja) engine after the short test ride.

2nd thing I've noticed is the sitting position. I sat on this bike before and I thought it didn't feel too bad, but during the ride it was very noticeable that the riding position is very much leaned forward. I really think the longer rides would get very tiring on the arms. In comparison, I've been on some rides when I rode the Ninja for about 2 hrs without taking a break and I didn't feel tired, but I have lowered the bike which brought the handlebars slightly higher and closer to the rider. I'm thinking the new Monster 821 would feel great in this regard!

3rd thing - there's some weird vibration around 3500-4000 RPMs and I'm not sure if it was that particular bike issue or they're all like this. It was there regardless the gear I was on and it was so bad I felt the bike might fall apart, the mirrors were shaking so bad I couldn't see anything at all behind me. Note: the vibration is a lot worse while the bike under the heavy acceleration (not that there is a lot of power in this power band) and not so bad while cruising at this RPM speed.

@ATF your comment on this issue will be appreciated, does your bike feel the same way? Just trying to figure out of they're all like this or the Test bike was a lemon? This is something that put me off this bike in the instant!

4th - the POWER! 2nd and 3rd gear - you better hold on to those handlebars! I didn't whack it right open but I gave it a good and smooth twist, almost ripped those handlebars out of my hands! Doing the same smooth WOT twist with my WR450 dirtbike, makes me do wheelie, but this thing stays glued to the ground and goes! Also because its not a high revving engine like my Ninja, it's easy to get up to speed and not notice it (if you know your bike and can pretty much feel it by the engine sound).

Was going to test ride a Z800 as well but came too late and they were closing... so it will be another day.

Now my wait for a new bike has just been postponed until the new Monster shows up, or at least until I know it's price, or until z800 is updated to my liking, or...

[nikster]

You could do a test ride on the Hypermotard in the meantime - same engine as the new Monster 821, and same riding modes, and prepare for even more of a "holy sh*** this thing goes off" kind of feel. The ride by wire throttle exaggerates that difference - there is no play, at least not in sports mode. Twist and off it goes. Engine is a significant update to the 796.

Hopefully it will be assembled in Thailand and if so it should be a little bit cheaper than the Hypermotard (USA MSRP is $2,000 less). Wouldn't dare hope they can keep the price the same to the 796 though.

Scrambler will be the new low price entry once it arrives here.

[Shurup]

@nikster Yes you're correct, this is the same engine as in the Hypermotards, I didn't know they were available in Thailand with this engine but I didn't look. After your comment I dug out the price list I've got from Ducati Korat some months back and yup, here it is. 499,000 baht so if the new monster is not more than that, it would be great! Ideally I'd like to see it closer to the 796 price tag but I know I'm dreaming.

Have you used the gasohol in your bike for more often than the occasional fill? I keep getting the conflicting reports on the gasohol use, some people say it will melt the fuel tank if used frequently, others say no problem, just don't store it with gasohol in it, salesgirl at Ducati Korat said can use 95 anything... I wouldn't mind filling it up with benzine all the time but it can be hard when traveling away from the larger towns/cities. How often do you fill it up with gasohol and have you had any issues? Or is it a steel and not a plastic tank on a Hypermotard?

[nikster]

I think it's a plastic tank. I also think they fixed the gasohol melting issue. It was recommended to me to fill only benzene, but OK to use gasohol 95 too. Most Ducati guys seem to just use gasohol in their bikes. Since the price difference really doesn't matter very much I usually use benzene 95 when available. But yeah it works fine with gasohol too, and I can't tell the difference in feel.

I love that the monster 821 has a bigger fuel tank - range is my only complaint with the Hypermotard. The tank really only has 14.5 liters usable (spec: 16). The Monster 821 gets 17.5 liters, and hopefully it's all usable. Should have a range of 250+ km. Engine economy is pretty good at 15.5 km / liter riding it like a maniac...

Edited July 28, 2014 by nikster

[nikster]

I really like the looks of it too, much better than the 796, despite the swing arm thing... it looks like a squashed Hyper. Which is a good thing.

The Hypermotard sound absolutely great with the stock exhaust, and by reviews the Monster 821 sounds even better.

Edited July 28, 2014 by nikster

[Wong!]

Terrible riding position and an engine that's coarser than a Kawa's? I hope the 821 has removed these major flaws.

[Shurup]

Terrible riding position and an engine that's coarser than a Kawa's? I hope the 821 has removed these major flaws.

I'm not sure I understand your comment regarding the engine, I still need to try the z800 to compare, but I agree on the riding position, it was not comfortable. Reviewers say it is much improved in the new monster.

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

[nikster]

The new monster 821 is a totally different animal to the old. Everything is different. The old one was known for not actually being a very good bike, all the things you pointed out basically. It was too radical - taking the "strip everything away" philosophy too far.

From all reviews the new one is much improved.

Hyper is still probably better its got rave reviews, all owners love it, and its definitely the best motorcycle ive ever ridden. Its not the specs its about the whole package. Needs a better fuel tank but other than that, wow...

[Hili]

there are pro and cons about this change - in the end you cant really compare a air cooled with a water cooled engine. I am happy to keep my light and well powered 796; dont need more for it's purpose which is mostly city riding. What i dont like is with more power you are also getting more weight and well the monster loosing its charme more and more. In the end it will be a blast to ride for sure but everybody has his own cup of tea.

If it will be build in LOS than soon we see the 2nd hand market flooded by 795s and 796s (which even is the case now)

[Shurup]

Yes I've noticed this too, more monsters are being offered in classifieds than usual and some are good deals.

@Hili do you have this weird vibration issue I described in my OP?

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

[Hili]

Yes I've noticed this too, more monsters are being offered in classifieds than usual and some are good deals.

@Hili do you have this weird vibration issue I described in my OP?

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

Well Shurup that depends because in general yes a Ducati (v-twin) does have alot more vibrations than other bikes so if you are riding a duc the first time that can be a strange thing for you. Espeically the stock setup of a 795/ 796 is really unsmooth at low rpm; which can be optimize eaisly by changing the gearing or optimzing the fuel/ air mixture via different exhaust/ air filte etc...

On the other hand i am coming from an older Ducati well compared to this it doesnt vibrating at all Some ppl love it / some ppl hate it. For me its an emotional thing and i dont want to miss a v-twin in my garage even though a inline 4 putting a smile on my face as well. 2 different pairs of shoes.

[ll2]

i also say hypermotard!

i rode monster 796 and yes it vibrates and it is a ball breaker but nice and light bike for city rides. And dont trust test models. I rode a hyperstrada test model, and it was stalling a lot with an idle surging hard and very poor fueling. but i rode hypermotard 15 minutes after(or before) that and these issues were not very noticeable! same bikes same spec!

821 will be a much more better bike though for me. i believe in technology but monster fanatics like air cooled and light older which i can also understand and respect them fully as i never had a monster or i am not a monster guy. (actually i am but in other ways:))

i say wait for monster 821 if you want to buy a monster.

and god's sake, do you really want to buy that 230 kg Ninja800 so called naked with a rubber mounted engine? And no ABS for that price? And, no traction control or riding modes if you compare with the new monster 821?

if naked, just get a real one: Ducati Monster or kawa z1000(at least it is 220 kg and engine is a stressed member). A Honda cb650f also does the job for much more cheaper than these at 285 k thb.

and Ducati monster 821 sure will be around 500 k thb by the way, maybe a bit less if we are lucky:)

Edited July 29, 2014 by ll2

[brfsa2]

interestingly enough I got a call today from a ducati sales guy telling me that the 821 will be available in Thailand in mid 2015. that is 1 year from now.

he's been chasing me for a while to get a ducati on the loan program, I told him I will wait for the 821 before I make any decisions to upgrade from my CB500.

I think it's hard for any other competitor to beat the CB650 price... we should be thankfull to honda for giving this gift to Thailand motor scene.

Edited July 29, 2014 by brfsa2

[BKKBike09]

if naked, just get a real one: Ducati Monster or kawa z1000(at least it is 220 kg and engine is a stressed member). A Honda cb650f also does the job for much more cheaper than these at 285 k thb.

Talking naked you shouldn't forget FZ-09, not that I'm biased in any way

As an aside Ducati Thonglor sent me a text yesterday for an "offer' on the 796 Monster. 89,990 up-front; 48 months at 6,997 and then a balloon payment of 99,900. Adds up to a grand total of THB 525,746. No thanks.

[ll2]

if naked, just get a real one: Ducati Monster or kawa z1000(at least it is 220 kg and engine is a stressed member). A Honda cb650f also does the job for much more cheaper than these at 285 k thb.

Talking naked you shouldn't forget FZ-09, not that I'm biased in any way

As an aside Ducati Thonglor sent me a text yesterday for an "offer' on the 796 Monster. 89,990 up-front; 48 months at 6,997 and then a balloon payment of 99,900. Adds up to a grand total of THB 525,746. No thanks.

You are totally right. Sorry for that.

Mt 09 is also a great option, it is a bike really upset other makers sure with its value.

still Ducati is better value here as one is 11,500 USD bike and one 8000 USD normally but same prices in Thailand but with ducati you get lots of electronics and some exotic design and stance - yeah one side of it is a bit plumbers nightmare though!

[Shurup]

interestingly enough I got a call today from a ducati sales guy telling me that the 821 will be available in Thailand in mid 2015. that is 1 year from now.

I've been trying to find this out from that sales girl but she just couldn't get what I was asking so I tried this question in a different way, I asked when will you get the 2015 models and she said middle of the next, year so this sounds about right. One year from now, dammit that's too long.

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

[nikster]

The sad truth is Ducati Thailand and the factory here aren't very organized. It might very well take them a long time to start producing the Monster 821.

F800GS just became available as an option, for 530k a really good deal. Sorry I just think the FZ-09 is grossly overpriced - it's a fun, budget bike, except in Thailand it's not budget so it sort of defeats the purpose.

I'm still madly in love with my Hypermotard; best bike I've had, everything else feels lame now. Tested a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak recently - awesome bike but felt kind of sluggish coming off the Hyper hahaha.

[ATF]

Why don't you get a Ducati Monster 1100 EVO about 500k used. This is an 1100 tons of mods available.

[bramds]

Why don't you get a Ducati Monster 1100 EVO about 500k used. This is an 1100 tons of mods available.

With a green book?

[ATF]

Why don't you get a Ducati Monster 1100 EVO about 500k used. This is an 1100 tons of mods available.

With a green book?

Sure. Quite a few around.

[Nickymaster]

Why don't you get a Ducati Monster 1100 EVO about 500k used. This is an 1100 tons of mods available.

Difficult to say if the images you show are from the EVO. And with those mods 500k will not be possible. But yes, you can find a good 1100EVO with low mileage for 500k here in LOS.

[Nickymaster]

let's see if the 821 also has that ugly oil cooler once it becomes available here.

Good thing is that it has a 180 rear tyre

(yeah I know the 1200 has a 190 rear tyre but 180 will do the job too. Better than 160 )

[ATF]

The pic above has lots of expensive mods just like this one. Be warned do not open this link if you don't have s_hit loads of cash http://www.bikeexif.com/monster-1100-custom

[BKKBike09]

F800GS just became available as an option, for 530k a really good deal. Sorry I just think the FZ-09 is grossly overpriced - it's a fun, budget bike, except in Thailand it's not budget so it sort of defeats the purpose.

I'm still madly in love with my Hypermotard; best bike I've had, everything else feels lame now. Tested a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak recently - awesome bike but felt kind of sluggish coming off the Hyper hahaha.

Out of interest what expected LOS pricing do you have in mind to label the FZ-09 as "grossly overpriced"? I'm not trying to pick a fight here - I'm genuinely curious as to what you think. Personally I do think it is somewhat overpriced even by LOS standards, but not by much - I'd say around 400K would be 'reasonable' for LOS (400K would be UK pricing) for a CBU Jap import.

The Hypermotard is a great bike for sure and is the only other bike I'd consider at the moment as an alternative to my FZ.

[DILLIGAD]

Visordown FB page just announced that it's out this week in UK for £8995.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[nikster]

F800GS just became available as an option, for 530k a really good deal. Sorry I just think the FZ-09 is grossly overpriced - it's a fun, budget bike, except in Thailand it's not budget so it sort of defeats the purpose.

I'm still madly in love with my Hypermotard; best bike I've had, everything else feels lame now. Tested a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak recently - awesome bike but felt kind of sluggish coming off the Hyper hahaha.

Out of interest what expected LOS pricing do you have in mind to label the FZ-09 as "grossly overpriced"? I'm not trying to pick a fight here - I'm genuinely curious as to what you think. Personally I do think it is somewhat overpriced even by LOS standards, but not by much - I'd say around 400K would be 'reasonable' for LOS (400K would be UK pricing) for a CBU Jap import.

Shouldn't be more than 350k. In the USA this bike costs the same as a Versys with ABS.

I understand it's overpriced because it's an import. But that doesn't change the fact?!

[BKKBike09]

F800GS just became available as an option, for 530k a really good deal. Sorry I just think the FZ-09 is grossly overpriced - it's a fun, budget bike, except in Thailand it's not budget so it sort of defeats the purpose.

I'm still madly in love with my Hypermotard; best bike I've had, everything else feels lame now. Tested a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak recently - awesome bike but felt kind of sluggish coming off the Hyper hahaha.

Out of interest what expected LOS pricing do you have in mind to label the FZ-09 as "grossly overpriced"? I'm not trying to pick a fight here - I'm genuinely curious as to what you think. Personally I do think it is somewhat overpriced even by LOS standards, but not by much - I'd say around 400K would be 'reasonable' for LOS (400K would be UK pricing) for a CBU Jap import.

Shouldn't be more than 350k. In the USA this bike costs the same as a Versys with ABS.

I understand it's overpriced because it's an import. But that doesn't change the fact?!

Thanks. At 350,000 it would certainly be a great deal - way cheaper than RRP in UK and many other countries. Strikes me that the US price is just incredibly low and it's a little unfair to expect LOS pricing to be anywhere near that. I believe the FZ09 is also cheaper in US than a CB650F.

As an aside I met a Thai guy today at the Ratchada Yamaha dealer: turns out he has a new Hypermotard with the Testastretta engine, but said after riding the 09 he thought the 09 was much more powerful

[nikster]

F800GS just became available as an option, for 530k a really good deal. Sorry I just think the FZ-09 is grossly overpriced - it's a fun, budget bike, except in Thailand it's not budget so it sort of defeats the purpose.

I'm still madly in love with my Hypermotard; best bike I've had, everything else feels lame now. Tested a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak recently - awesome bike but felt kind of sluggish coming off the Hyper hahaha.

Out of interest what expected LOS pricing do you have in mind to label the FZ-09 as "grossly overpriced"? I'm not trying to pick a fight here - I'm genuinely curious as to what you think. Personally I do think it is somewhat overpriced even by LOS standards, but not by much - I'd say around 400K would be 'reasonable' for LOS (400K would be UK pricing) for a CBU Jap import.

Shouldn't be more than 350k. In the USA this bike costs the same as a Versys with ABS.

I understand it's overpriced because it's an import. But that doesn't change the fact?!

Thanks. At 350,000 it would certainly be a great deal - way cheaper than RRP in UK and many other countries. Strikes me that the US price is just incredibly low and it's a little unfair to expect LOS pricing to be anywhere near that. I believe the FZ09 is also cheaper in US than a CB650F.

As an aside I met a Thai guy today at the Ratchada Yamaha dealer: turns out he has a new Hypermotard with the Testastretta engine, but said after riding the 09 he thought the 09 was much more powerful

I'm not saying it should be priced as US prices. I am only comparing relatives here.

Versys and FZ-09 are both $8000 or 260,000 THB in the USA. In Thailand thanks to various taxes and whatnot the Versys is 315,000. And the FZ-09 450,000. Hypermotard costs $12,000 in the USA, or 50% more than the FZ-09. In Thailand, the Hyper is 11% more. This is not difficult math.

It's the reason I think the FZ-09 is overpriced. Because relatively speaking, it's way more expensive than comparable value bikes, and almost as expensive as more-value bikes.

Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it! Or have fantasies of power 555

Imported BMW, Ducati, KTM and whatnot are worse value still at US price x 2 and more, and people enjoy those too

[Wong!]

F800GS just became available as an option, for 530k a really good deal. Sorry I just think the FZ-09 is grossly overpriced - it's a fun, budget bike, except in Thailand it's not budget so it sort of defeats the purpose.

I'm still madly in love with my Hypermotard; best bike I've had, everything else feels lame now. Tested a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak recently - awesome bike but felt kind of sluggish coming off the Hyper hahaha.

Out of interest what expected LOS pricing do you have in mind to label the FZ-09 as "grossly overpriced"? I'm not trying to pick a fight here - I'm genuinely curious as to what you think. Personally I do think it is somewhat overpriced even by LOS standards, but not by much - I'd say around 400K would be 'reasonable' for LOS (400K would be UK pricing) for a CBU Jap import.

Shouldn't be more than 350k. In the USA this bike costs the same as a Versys with ABS.

I understand it's overpriced because it's an import. But that doesn't change the fact?!

Thanks. At 350,000 it would certainly be a great deal - way cheaper than RRP in UK and many other countries. Strikes me that the US price is just incredibly low and it's a little unfair to expect LOS pricing to be anywhere near that. I believe the FZ09 is also cheaper in US than a CB650F.

As an aside I met a Thai guy today at the Ratchada Yamaha dealer: turns out he has a new Hypermotard with the Testastretta engine, but said after riding the 09 he thought the 09 was much more powerful

I'm not saying it should be priced as US prices. I am only comparing relatives here.

Versys and FZ-09 are both $8000 or 260,000 THB in the USA. In Thailand thanks to various taxes and whatnot the Versys is 315,000. And the FZ-09 450,000. Hypermotard costs $12,000 in the USA, or 50% more than the FZ-09. In Thailand, the Hyper is 11% more. This is not difficult math.

It's the reason I think the FZ-09 is overpriced. Because relatively speaking, it's way more expensive than comparable value bikes, and almost as expensive as more-value bikes.

Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it! Or have fantasies of power 555

Imported BMW, Ducati, KTM and whatnot are worse value still at US price x 2 and more, and people enjoy those too

What about the various taxes in the US? I remember Americans saying the Honda 500s were cheaper in the States than Thailand when in reality the on the road price was about the same.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Wong!

[BKKBike09]

I'm not saying it should be priced as US prices. I am only comparing relatives here.

Versys and FZ-09 are both $8000 or 260,000 THB in the USA. In Thailand thanks to various taxes and whatnot the Versys is 315,000. And the FZ-09 450,000. Hypermotard costs $12,000 in the USA, or 50% more than the FZ-09. In Thailand, the Hyper is 11% more. This is not difficult math.

It's the reason I think the FZ-09 is overpriced. Because relatively speaking, it's way more expensive than comparable value bikes, and almost as expensive as more-value bikes.

Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it! Or have fantasies of power 555

Imported BMW, Ducati, KTM and whatnot are worse value still at US price x 2 and more, and people enjoy those too

"Fantasies of power" … about the only fantasies I get these days . Actually the FZ here is 435, not 450, not that it makes much difference.

I agree that if you solely base on US pricing, then FZ09 is expensive here. But I don't see that FZ09 and Versys can be described as 'comparable' in any way other than pricing. Versys: 210 kg steel frame tourer 650 cc 65hp-45 ft/lb parallel twin; FZ09: 190 kg streetfighter ally frame 850 cc 110hp-65 ft/lb triple. That said, Versys is an excellent bike, particularly the latest model. If I didn't live in central BKK (and do most of my riding in s**t traffic) I'd give a lot of thought to a Versys or V-Strom 650.

Anyway, as you say, we all enjoy different bikes and long may that continue. To bring back on topic - I'm sure lots of people will also enjoy the Monster 821. I was amazed to read in one review that Ducati has sold more than 250,000 Monsters since it was launched 20 years ago!