Recent move to Thailand Experience

[JXCutter]

Moving to Thailand: Experience with shipping, visas, customs, voltage and tv’s.

I just moved to Thailand and want to share my experience regarding shipping US appliances, especially TV’s. Before moving I did a lot of research in the Thaivisa forums and throughout the internet. Some of the information was helpful a lot was not. I grew up in my father’s electrical and refrigeration business so I know a little more than the average person about electricity.

VOLTS: The 220-240 volt system here in Thailand is different than the 220-240v system in the US. In the US the two wires required for operation carry 110-120v each so when added together they supply the required 220-240v. The Thai system uses one wire with 220-240v and the other is a neutral (Zero volts). Much like the US system for 110-120v where one wire has 110-120v and the other wire is a neutral. For US equipment that uses 220-240v I don’t know if these two different types of 220-240v systems makes a difference or not. I do not suggest spending a lot of money shipping 220-240v equipment especially if it has a motor.

SHIPPING: I originally sent three pallet loads of boxes to be shipped. The shipping company told me that for $200 more I could ship my own container, put my own lock on the container and that the cargo would not have to be moved from container to container when being consolidated. What I was shipping occupied about a quarter to a third of the space in a 20 Ft. container. So after learning this I threw a lot more stuff in the container. I reasoned that I wouldn’t get much for what I left behind even if I was able to sell it so I would be better off sending to Thailand and throwing it away there if I was not able to use it. This wound up being a great choice because I decided to go ahead and ship my 60” TV. Most shipments have a minimum charge for about 2 or 3 cubic meters or less and after that the cost for additional stuff is not that much more.

I paid for door to door service and made sure that I had emails from the receiving shipping company in Bangkok that the delivery charges were included in the amount paid to the originating shipping company. Some stuff Customs Duty and VAT has to be determined after the shipment arrived.

In the past I had several Thai Non-Immigrant O-A (retirement) visas. The Thai Customs regulations state that used household goods for returning Thai residents is not subject to Customs Duty and/or VAT. That being the case I did not do a great job of listing my household goods or the value. However, upon arriving I was told that I had to pay Custom Duty on household items since I am not a Thailand citizen but since I was entering on a Retirement visa I did not have to pay tax or duty on “personal” items. Thai Customs told me personal items are things you wear on your person. I paid duty on the declared value of household items.

VISAS: I acquired the visas for my wife, Non-Immigrant – O, my daughter Non-Immigrant – ED, and myself Non-Immigrant O-A. I strongly suggest obtaining the visas before coming to Thailand even though it can be done after arriving. My wife’s visa requires her to exit the country every 90 days; however, there is a form to request an exemption to exiting and only require the 90 reporting. When entering Thailand with anyone with an Education visa have the school documents available to show to the immigration officer upon arrival.

VOLTAGE CONVERSION: The Thai 220-240v electrical system can be easily converted to 110-115v. However, only the voltage is converted, the hertz is NOT converted, see below. There are many cheaply made transformers/converters. It would behoove you to buy well-made transformers. Most of the quality transformers are not made in Thailand and therefore once the duty is added the price is two to three times higher. I was told of one quality Thai manufactured transformer, Siam Brand. I searched the Iron Bridge area and finally found a place to purchase the Siam Brand. I am very happy with the price and quality of these transformers. If you would like directions contact me and I will provide the information.

HERTZ: The Thai system is 50 hertz and the US system is 60 hertz. It appears that the different hertz do not make a difference except for induction motors that run for long period of time, such as the motors in refrigeration compressors, dryers, etc. When motors designed for 60 hertz run for lengthy periods of time on 50 hertz they will overheat. Motors running for short periods such as blenders should not have a hertz problem. I did read where cheaper transformers/power supplies built into equipment for 60 hertz also overheat when they are run on 50 hertz. Many US clocks work off of the 60 hertz for timing, running on 50 hertz will throw the timing off.

TV’s: Using US made TV’s in Thailand was initially a challenge. Upon arriving in Bangkok I had True Visions install several outlets which included the cable box with HDMI output. This HDMI output worked fine with a HDMI computer monitor. However, it did not work with any TV or anything that had a TV built in such as my Samsung combination computer monitor/TV. I don’t know why the computer monitors/TV did not work when just in the computer monitor mode. If you use just a computer monitor then you have to plug in some speakers to the cable box.

I had a PAL to NTSC converter I had used in Afghanistan a few years ago. That converter is for 720/1080 and it worked great on all the TVs and monitor/TVs except one, a 2005 Samsung TV. I believe the problem was that the 2005 TV was pre-720/1080. I tried to adjust the signal output on the cable box but didn’t have any luck. After searching in Pantip I found a converter that was designed for “Older TVs.” That fixed the problem with the 2005 TV. That same converter works fine for all the newer TVs also.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Tywais
Corrected font for better readability

[JXCutter]

Recent Move to Thailand Experience Part 2

As I previously stated I moved to Thailand with Visas in hand. However, I just recently learned the following:

My wife was issued a Multiple Entry (at least we paid for one) Non-Immigrant O visa from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles. This type of visa only allows for stays of 90 days at a time. She has to exit the country and re-enter at least every 90 days. Check the stamp that was placed in the passport upon arrival. It gives the exact date that a border run (exit Thailand) has to be accomplished.

We went to Immigration today to change change/modify the visa so she does not have to exit and re-enter and can do 90 day reports like an Non-Immigrant O-A visa. This can be done if a justifiable reason can be codified on a TM7. In addition, the applicant is required to have 500,000 Baht in a Thai bank account for 30 days. The application needs to be made with the completed TM7, copies of passport, visa, arrival stamp, Departure Card, bank passbook and bank letter regarding the deposits and account balance. Also, documents supporting the reason for not exiting Thailand every 90 days, i.e., minor child in school and can't leave the child alone. Take original of all document to immigration. I strongly suggest if someone is in this category they open a bank account immediately upon arrival and start the process. It my understanding that she will not have to get a Multiple Entry stamp (3,800 Baht) allowing entry and exit to Thailand after getting her visa status changed to "Report Only." We were erroneously informed that the bank account only have 50,000 baht for one month. My wife has to do a border run because there is not a month left before my wife has to depart Thailand.

My daughter was issued a Multiple Entry (at least we paid for one) Non-Immigrant ED visa from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles. Upon entry this visa is only good (allowed to stay in Thailand) for 90 days. It is clearly marked on the entry stamp that she was allowed to be in Thailand for only 90 days. We went to Immigration today and obtained an Extension (1,900 Baht) for one year. The year is one year from the end of her first 90 days. However, we learned that she could not leave and re-enter Thailand without voiding her present visa. We were required to purchase a multiple Re-Entry Permit (3,800 baht) even though the original visa issued by the Thai Consulate was a multiple entry visa. Maybe, I don't know, she was permitted to enter and exit Thailand multiple times during her first 90 days.

I am on a Multiple Entry (at least I paid for one) Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement) visa. After learning about my daughter needing a Re-Entry stamp even though the visa was marked "M" for multiple entries I asked if I needed to purchase a Re-Entry permit and was told I did not that my visa allowed me to enter and exit without one.

[Kwasaki]

Whow !! I wondered why no replies, so had a read and now I know.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kwasaki

[gpdjohn]

ok, and...

[enuff said]

.

This post is full of so much cr#p and misinformation that it should be terminated immediately.

Not only anecdotal but solipsistic as well.

Hey... best of luck OP. You done good!

NEXT!

'nuff said

~

[krisb]

Just noticed Tywais even edited the first lot.

Congratulations on your 60 inch tv from Afghanistan getting its visa. I think.

[stuurman]

How much import duty did you pay on your shipment JXCutter?

[HeijoshinCool]

I was about to make a new topic about how TV had become boring.

But now I can wait.

This has spiced things up.

OP: Are you an engineer, by any chance?

Anyway, best wishes for you your happiness in Thailand.

[lapd]

Standard US wall outlet voltage at 110v is half the Thai wall outlet voltage. I think you are confusing the fact there are often 2 x 110v lines in us households. They can be combined for 220v for heavy appliances like dryers. However that is infomation that is not of any use to an end user.

All you need to know is that US uses 110v 60hz and Thailand uses 220v 50hz. Just make sure the equipment you are plugging in is rated for that. Most wall adapters for electronic equipment can do both.

Edited September 13, 2014 by lapd

[JXCutter]

I provided the above posts to help those that might be interested. I was not really looking for any replies I was just hoping that my recent experience might be of some help to others. All of the things that I wrote about were questions that myself and many others have asked in the past.....and after careful review I found a mishmash of contradictory information. There are many things that I would have done differently if had had the experience that I cited. My father taught me that there are three kinds of people, stupid ones that don't learn from their mistakes, smart ones who do and wise one's who learn from someone elses. I think my father was being generous, as proven by some replies there are the deliberately ignorant who endeavor to remain stupid and ignorant even when presented with credible reliable information. However, I really believe these people are need in the world so as to not raise the bar too high.....I just hope they don't procreate. As far as replies, obviously some people need to try to find something constructive to do with their time. Trying to find someway to use the "Word of the Day" on your calendar is not constructive. I guess it is nice to know that the old Irish adage, "No good deed goes unpunished" will always be true.

It appears that some people feel the need to interject even at the expense of being inaccurate and incorrect. There is a lot more to using the electricity in Thailand than just knowing that the US uses 110v at 60 hz and that Thailand uses 220v at 50 Hz. As far as my background I could write a dissertation on 440v 3phases systems and the difference between 240v 3 phase Delta and Y systems with one of them having a high (208v) leg and the other having three 115v legs. That being said I would suggest that people who are looking for reliable information not pay any attention to pundits that have nothing better to do than try to prove to themselves that they are smarter than someone else while at the same time proving to everyone else that he or she is not.

I love how some people who opine that some information is incorrect but lack the mental capacity to codify exactly what is inaccurate. That should tell you something about the author.

Someone asked how much my import duties were. I could list a dollar amount but that wouldn't serve a purpose. It was based on the value placed on the household but not personal goods in the shipment. In my particular case Customs accepted the value that I asessed to the items. This was one of the reasons that I acquired my O-A visa prior to arriving.

I am sure there are people who have had different experiences. Most people that have spent anytime in Thailand know that consistency of the application of laws and policies is not a general practice throughout the Thai gov't beuracratic system(s). I have also found (this is where being wise vice smart plays an important role) that people with bad attitudes have a very difficult time and their experiences are for the most part negative...imagine that!

[Rupert Wellington]

[Soutpeel]

I could write a dissertation on 440v 3phases systems and the difference between 240v 3 phase Delta and Y systems with one of them having a high (208v) leg

Please don't....

[Sayonarax]

Glad your using the right vac now

[Sayonarax]

I could write a dissertation on 440v 3phases systems and the difference between 240v 3 phase Delta and Y systems with one of them having a high (208v) leg

Please don't....

Capture2.JPG

Capture4.JPG

Never heard of a 440v system before.. whats that bad boy used to run?

[crazygreg44]

Me thinks you want to hide something from us, as you do not give us an idea on how much percent import duty you ended up paying for useful plus the "useless" (stated by you) household items.

Could it be because you realized a bit later that it would have been cheaper & much easier to obtain these household goods, or at least neither cheaper nor much more expensive, the only negative being that you had to run from Pontius to Pilatus in order to make everything happen ? My oh my.

I am not an engineer, but due to the easyness of the Thai electric house systems, I was able to do all the wiring & fuse box by myself. Using test method "works" and "does not work" and a little screwdiver with an inbuild light. Plus a grounding rod. Everything including pizza oven, TV, computers, Water Heaters, Fridges & freezers and etc work like a dream for five years now, and I am happy I didn't have to go to university for that

[kurnell]

For those that want to know, tax and duties are based on the weight of the shipment as a whole.

[manarak]

the parts on electrics and TV standards are just hilarious!

Just why would anyone want to have 110V or NTSC inside their Thai home is beyond me...

[JXCutter]

To be polite I will answer the questions that have been posed. However, if you find my posts boring I have a suggestion......don't read them. If I had no interest in posted material reading it would be about the second most boring thing I could think of, the most boring of course would be being subjected to posts by people whining about posts that they don't need to read. However, I do understand that some people have absolutely nothing to do but sit around in their underwear wearing tattered wife beater T-shirts reading mundane material irrelevant to their life. For this I have a suggestion: Get a life, do something that makes a positive contribution to society, try to be part of the solution not part of the problem.

Regarding Sayonarax' question regarding 440v systems. 440v is used mainly for extremely large industrial motors especially if they are remotely located such as large submerigible irrigation pumps especially ones that are located long distances from an electrical power grid. The higher the voltage the smaller a wire is required to carry the current. That's why long distance electrical lines are very small in size because the voltage is around 13,000 and the line loss rate is a lot lower. That is what that big grey can is for on the pole near people's houses to step down the current from from a high voltage requiring a smaller wire to household 120v. But also sometimes they just have a camera in them so the police can watch your house. But not to worry, I'm sure if you have a very high electricity bill and your windows are blacked out the police have no interest in your house, just keep doing what you're doing.

In response to crazygreg44: It had been my plan to cull out of lot of the useless items when I started to pack. However, as luck would have it I was offered a very lucrative consulting job at during that time and didn't have the time to make the decision what to get rid of and what to ship. Since the cost of shipping is minimal after reaching the mandatory minium I told my wife to just ship most of the stuff. It would not have been a lot cheaper for me to acquire the items locally. I was going to leave the items behind but when I found out that for $200 more, $5,000 vice $4,800 I could have my own 20' container instead of using about a 1/3rd of container with my items palletized. Because of this I was able to go ahead a ship a lot of stuff very cheaply and as you can see from my text I saved a lot of money by doing so. For the cost of a very cheap transformer and a PAL to NTSC converter (less than $100) I am able to use a TV I shipped for free that would have cost thousands of dollars here in Thailand. And that is only one example. As far as time you do have a valid point, it did take some time but since I am here on a retirement visa as previously stated I am not working. Since I have a sizeable income from that retirement, which by the way was earned by not doing stupid stuff like throwing away a perfectly good large flat screen tv that could be put to use for about $100 instead of paying thousands for one in Thailand, I had the time. However, I am utterly shocked to learn that you are happy that you didn't get an advanced education. PS: Nobody uses fuses anymore, that is really old school, someone must have unloaded some old equipment real cheap, breaker boxes have been in use for decades now. Fortunately I did not have to spend time doing my own house electrical system since I just moved into a large condo on the river that of course was already completely wired.

Manarak: The reason I wanted a 110v NTSC TV in my house probably has something to do with it cost me less than $100 vice spending thousands for a similar TV here in Thailand. Spending less than $100 or spending thousands.....for most of us (this of course does not include some of the responders to this thread) is a No-Brainer. However, those individuals should not feel left out, it's apparent that no-brain might still have a credible application.

In response to Kurnell: The imposition of Duty and Vat is based on assessed value not weight, that is why VAT stands for "Value Added Tax." Sometimes duty is based on quantity which could be weight but for household/personal items weight is not a factor. If you are importing stuff commercially such as beer, wine or other commodities it is often based on quantity/weight of that category of item. That is why large of percentage of customs duty authorities throughout the world have a dual taxing system, one for quantity/weight and one for value. Why should the total import liability for a $20 bottle of wine be the same as $2,000 dollar bottle of wine?

[sipi]

Voltage is simply the potential between supply and earth. If you put a multimeter between the active and earth on a 240v system, it will read 240v. A 120v system will read 120v. A twin 120v supply will read 240v between supply and earth (single phase of course. 3 phase is another story ie 440v). Hertz in directly attributed to the speed of the alternators. At 50 hz the alternators spin at 3000rpm, 60 hz they spin at 3600rpm. A 110v appliance plugged into a 240v supply will "burn out". A 240v appliance plugged into a 110v supply will "brown out", or as we call it in either circumstance, "shit itself".

Edited October 2, 2014 by sipi

[JXCutter]

close but no cigar. Your statement, "A twin 120v supply will read 240v between supply and earth" is not correct. The US is what you are calling a "twin" 240v system. That is why there is three leads to a typical house in the US. Two hots (120v) and a nuetral. These two 120v legs are different hot legs. the meter will read 120v from each of the hot legs to ground (earth as you like to call it). Only when you place the meter leads on the two different hot legs will the meter read 240v. However, as I stated in my original post the Thai 240 volt system is different. One of the incoming power legs is 240v, that is a meter reading between that one leg hot leg and to ground gives you a reading of 240v. Also as I posted I don't know the effect of supplying 240v equipment designed for one system powered by the other system, i.e., a US 240v motor getting one 240v leg and a nuetral instead of two 120v inputs or the reverse in Thailand, a motor designed for one leg being 240v and the other a nuetral being supplied by two different 120v legs. To simplify this a little the US 240v system is 120v + 120v = 240v whereas in Thailand 240v + 0 (nuetral) = 240v.

A 110v piece of equipment plugged into a 240 system (US or Thai) will not "brown out," you have introduced double the electricity that it is designed for and will almost instantly burn up. If you're lucky the equipment has a built in fuse that can be reset or replaced otherwise you have in a very technical term, "fried" but "shit itself" is as an appropriate term as any.

While on this subject of line voltage one pundit tried to make a point regarding the use of 110v, 115v or 120v. I don't know exactl why, my guess is that it has something to do with money, and what doesn't. The US has progressed over the years, from 110v when I started dealing with it to 120v and as far as I know it may be at 125v by now. Equipment that is built has a built in plus or minus factor of a few volts. The fact that someone uses the term 110v, 115v, or 120v has more to say about the person's age more than anything else. Is it absolutely accurate no, but is it accurate to say an auto loader has a clip instead of a magazine of course not but it is still common lexicon and should not be confused with theoperating system itself.

[sipi]

Ok I apologize. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I am a mechanical engineer that did his "time" in a power station with a lot of other electrical engineers (Callide...google it).

I didn't say a 110v appliance plugged into a 240v supply will "brown out" . Read my reply again. And I repeat, voltage is the potential between supply and earth; full stop.

Hey anyway, plug whatever you want into whatever supply you want, and learn the hard way. Die or burn the house down, or simply fry some of your stuff. Up to you. I have better things to do.

Bye.

[Berkshire]

Maybe we can convince canarysun to come over and post a few pictures of him and his hookers. That might spice things up.

Sorry, OP, couldn't resist. Carry on.

[daveAustin]

Op, visas can only be obtained outside Thailand; there is no option to get them from within other than perhaps changing from one type to another. What you do get while here is a the ability to extend non-immigrant visas, but you must first obtain the visa from an embassy/consulate outside of Thai, as you have.

Please don't bite my head of for stating this. Even though you might not be looking for responses, this is an open forum and you invite responses through the act of posting. Chill out, man, you made it out of the US.

[JLCrab]

After 10+ years in Thailand, I have nothing from the USA that I did not bring with me on the airplane including one oversize but not overweight checked item.

[choochoo]

Just noticed Tywais even edited the first lot.

Congratulations on your 60 inch tv from Afghanistan getting its visa. I think.

i plug my usa power cord in thai outlet and it works. phew.......

hertz car rentals?

[JXCutter]

I have lived on and off in Thailand for more than 10 years. I have had multiple Non-Immigrant O-A visas. On one occassion I was unable to be in Thailand during the time period for renewal of my retirement visa so I entered as a tourist. Immigration informed me even though I was only a week late that I had to start my retirement visa process from scratch and it could be done while in Thailand. They would issue me a 90 day tourist visa to cover the required time for having 800,000 baht in my Thai bank account. A friend of mine just re-entered just as a tourist and obtained his O-A visa after getting here but like me he had had a retirement visa in the past that had lapsed and had a thai bank account. I don't know if you can do it "in country" with a letter of income or not. I know I've used them to renew my retirement visa but not from scratch.

On another note, all my US electrical products are working great, I saved a ton a money by shipping the appliances.

[Soutpeel]

A friend of mine just re-entered just as a tourist and obtained his O-A visa after getting here

Categorically impossible, the person has not obtained an O-A visa in Thailand, his past retirement visa has absolutely no bearing on being issued a "visa" this time around

An O-A visa is issued typically from a Thai embassy/consulate in ones own country and in addition to the financial requirements requires a criminal record and medical report, immigration in Thailand do not deal with the issue of this visa class.

He may have issued an extension based for the purposes of retirement from a tourist visa, but this is not a visa or an O-A and only requires the financial side of things

[phuketjock]

A friend of mine just re-entered just as a tourist and obtained his O-A visa after getting here

Categorically impossible, the person has not obtained an O-A visa in Thailand, his past retirement visa has absolutely no bearing on being issued a "visa" this time around

An O-A visa is issued typically from a Thai embassy/consulate in ones own country and in addition to the financial requirements requires a criminal record and medical report, immigration in Thailand do not deal with the issue of this visa class.

He may have issued an extension based for the purposes of retirement from a tourist visa, but this is not a visa or an O-A and only requires the financial side of things

I am not exactly sure what an " O-A visa " is but I did ,some years ago, obtain a 90 day non-immigrant

visa catogory O from the immigration office in Phuket. This was issued on the strength of a 30 day visa

exempt entry stamp to give me the necessary 90 days to season the necessary funds to cover my

visa extension on the grounds of retirement, so I did in fact obtain a non-immigrant "O" visa in Thailand.

Edited October 2, 2014 by phuketjock

[JXCutter]

Let me re-itierate in order to attempt to displell some of the mis-information presented above. All the information that I have cited is from personal first hand experience. I was in Thailand on a regular tourist exemption when I applied for my initial Non-Immigrant O-A visa. I had all the required paperwork, including the US bank account documents that a Thai Consulate in a foreign country would require. However, Thai Immigration, in Thailand told me since I was applying in Thailand, which is acceptable, I must already have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for required 90 days. The same requirment that is required at the end of your initial year if you had received your initial O-A visa in your home country. Since I had not opened a Thai bank account as of yet I did not meet the "In Country" requirements of already having the money in Thailand. As stated above I don't know what would have happened if I had presented a letter showing guaranteed income endoresed/stamped/notorized (whatever you want to call it) by the US Consulate. So it is very clear that a person can obtain a Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirment) visa after entering Thailand with just a tourist passport. There is no prohibition from obtaining the Retirment visa in Thailand, not just an extension but the initial Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement) visa. I took the same documents to the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles a few days later (except you do have the get the medical certificate in the country where you apply for the O-A visa) and the request flew thru. I actually handed the paperwork to the lady as she drove into the parking lot of the consulate and when the doors officially opened a about 30 minutes later the processing was already complete.

But you do have to jump through some hoops. As Phuketjock stated you have to be here for the required time amount so you have to turn your 30 day visa ememption into a 90 day Non-Immigrant visa in order to be in Thailand for the required time to submit the documents to obtain a Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement) visa. In addition, I had a friend to the exact same as above so I have seen it done personally.

I should note the informaiton in my posts are not based based on the belligerent belly aching of idiots sitting around the bars complaining about why they didn't obtain some priviledge by the Thai government. Anyone who is going to live in Thailand needs to understand that the Thai people are very polite and will find ways to tell Farangs things in a way so as it won't be taken as a personal affront. If you go to Thai immigration in dirty cut off jeans wearing sandals and a stained wife beaterT-shirt and show that you have the required income however limited there is a good chance that you will be told that the visa can only be processed in your home country after you depart Thailand. The "depart Thailand" is the operative intent of the Thai immigration official. If you decide to go to Thai Immigration wearing respectable clothing, take a bath, shower, comb your hair, wear a collared shirt and have all your necessary documents with the required copies completed and correctly filled out you have a very good chance of obtaining the Thai priviledge that you are requesting.

It should be noted that the words "impossible" and "typically" are not antonyms and as were used in the context above are mutually exclusive for describing the procedure for which a person can and cannot receive a Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement) visa. To spell this out a little further, as I originally suggested it behooves a person to obtain their Non-Immigrant O-A visa before entering Thailand, this is the "typical" way it is done and there is a very good reason for that. However, that being said, since it is only the "typical" way then by definition that would mean that there are some other way such as obtaining the visa in Thailand.

As a final note, I do not take the time and energy to try to change any posters mind, it is very evident that most people are very entrenched in their perceptions irrespective of the validity. However, I think it is important that the readers who are actively seeking information in order to make informed decisions to the extent possible be provided accurate information.

[ATF]

Obviously you failed your High School Physics.

Who says Americans don't travel well?