Ready to Throw in the Towel, Have kids here in Chiang Mai

[MisterJimmy]

Wow!

Lived in Thailand for 8 years, married in states 9 years ago. We have two kids aged 3 and 4. What a mess this will be. I want to move back to the states, what are my options for custody? The kids already have US Passports. The house is in her name, I paid for about 50% of it. I understand I can not get that back. I wouldn't mind staying here to be with my kids, but I really can't support myself here. I am 38 years old, with an education, there's just not much up here in Chiang Mai, outside of teaching.

I should also add that my wife and I planned on moving back to the states in two years. She is a well educated, decent lady. We just kind of lost that loving feeling after the kids. It's a shame, but that's what happened.

I am really tired right now and can't quite think of everything I need to ask, but I at least wanted to get this post going.

[NeverSure]

I can't tell you about custody, but you need to see a US lawyer. Some states are community property states and some aren't. If they are, then she owns 1/2 of everything you own even in the states and even retirement accounts. If your state isn't community property, then anything you owned before the marriage is yours.

Don't forget child support and maybe even spousal support. See a lawyer.

[jacky54]

I think you are entitled to 50% of the house on divorce, that's if it can be sold of course

[Aussieroaming]

Why not pack up mum and kids and head off to the states?

First thing it will give you and your wife a sea change to give the relationship another crack. You sound like you still respect her.

If it fails you will have already gotten home and established a base.

Being divorced myself with 2 kids I found it incredibly hard not to feel guilty about living in another country even though I didn't precipitate the separation and subsequent divorce. And I was flying home and seeing my kids every 2 months, which costs a fortune.

You may well be better trying to find work in Thailand or take the kids to the USA and fight for custody there.

Regardless with it all good luck and keep a cool head.

[BrooklynNY]

You should settle either the divorce or reconciliation before moving back to the States. In the case that you would move back to USA with your wife and kids. If you are divorced in USA you will end up paying for child support and spousal support while your wife is unemployed. If I were you, I would move back alone and have your kids come to live with you when they are older, that what many Loog Krueng kids do when they get older. They want to go live with their foreign fathers abroad. Most Thai mothers would want their grown children to have an education and get a good paying job in the country where their ex husband live.

Added texts.

I have read many threads on a Thai web board about loog krueng adults posted searching for a lead to help find their foreign fathers who left Thailand after divorced or simply left and have never sent any money to help their children. Those loog kreung adults want to live with their fathers hoping that they could have a better opportunity anywhere outside Thailand. When they were young, many Thai mothers did not want to let go their children until they are grown up became independent adults.

If you make an official agreement with your wife that you would like your children to study in USA, she may let you take the children with you.

[ebean001]

My friend got a Thai lawyer who did a 'learn as we go' process. He went to immigration at the airport and asked - innocently - here is all the paper work. can i get on a flight to USA with my kids. What more paper work do I need. Answer to him: your wife's approval.

[Swiss1960]

From your post, I assume that your wife is Thai and the kids were born in Thailand and therefore have dual nationality Thai and US?

From your post, I assume that you want the divorce ("lost that loving feeling") and there is no chance you want your wife to come with you to the US?

Then... forget custody, if your wife does not agree. Why in the world should a Thai court give you custody to you and not to your wife? You say yourself that she is a "well educated, decent lady" and therefore, the court would see no reason why she should loose the custody right for the kids.

Not even worth thinking of a lawyer... and definitely not a US lawyer as you are in Thailand for your custody fight...

Talk with your wife. Don't throw your marriage away. If you could convince your wife to move with you to the US for the sake of the children, once you established yourself back home and have a good job and your economic situation is better, then this might also help your family life and there are chances to engage with a mediator to help you solve the problems in your relationship. Put the kids and what is best for them into the middle of your thoughts. And splitting kids from the mother is never a good idea, specially if there are thousands of miles inbetween them afterwards.

[robertthebruce]

Sorry to hear your predicament, it must be difficult for you,

Moving the wife and kids to the States could maybe help , different scenery and at least you could get a decent job with some money....???

Just my toe cents worth...

All the best ...

[KhnomKhnom]

Oh oh, another worthless father, another dead beat dad in the making.

YOU fathered them; you take care of them.

Take wife and kids back to America and your wife, THERE, will either return to loving or will fully hate you. But then you can deal with a decided situation in a country that forces dads to live up to their responsibility, another plus for YOUR children.

Be a man outside the bedroom, also, eh?

[cup-O-coffee]

If you died today, they would get by. But you aren't dead yet, so take the time to take care of yourself first and then take the time to consider their needs. If you've got no juice, then you are pretty much worthless to everyone around you, including yourself.

How long to take care of yourself and get the juice back? That's up to you and your sense of self-honesty.

Additionally, I have found that time often cures things like this. Not making any rash decisions or emotional outbursts... simply being patient and "listening" to life, or letting life finish with this "down time" it is testing you at.

Believe me, the clouds do indeed part, but if you aren't rested and of sound mind and feeling good about yourself, then you won;t see the sunshine for your feet.

That is my answer.

[HeijoshinCool]

Oh oh, another worthless father, another dead beat dad in the making.

YOU fathered them; you take care of them.

Take wife and kids back to America and your wife, THERE, will either return to loving or will fully hate you. But then you can deal with a decided situation in a country that forces dads to live up to their responsibility, another plus for YOUR children.

Be a man outside the bedroom, also, eh?

.

Totally unwarranted.

[GentlemanJim]

We just kind of lost that loving feeling after the kids.

Jimmy

That is not an excuse to throw in the towel and threaten the wellbeing of 'family'. You need to work harder at it. Most marriages go through that phase, create the time and environment to get that loving feeling back. Kids are exhausting, especially ages 3 and 4 and they can drain away your spare emotion. It does not sound as if you are married to a terrible woman or a sponger, it sounds like you need some time. Where is Grandma to look after the kids for a long weekend, or perhaps her sister. Fight fight fight. You will not regret it in 10 years when you think, wow, we got through it. The successful people in all walks of life are the ones who are willing to go the extra mile. I got divorced a long time ago and with hindsight I should never have done so. Barely a day goes by when I do not regret my actions, but sadly, even if I had a time machine I could now not go back and rectify things because I would lose the wonderful wife and children I now have.

Speak to people on here as much as you like, find a friend to go out for a chat with, Thailand can be a lonely place for us foreigners when you cannot have a decent intellectual conversation with anyone in your first language and for most of us our Thai is not up to a deep and meaningful level of competence. Do not give up. You are displaying the symptoms of someone who needs time with the woman they married. Create that time. As one poster said, if you were planning to go to the states as a family in two years then go now and work to save your family. In 30 years you will realise that nothing is more important. Good luck.

[HeijoshinCool]

First, gird yourself.

Your kids already have passports. If you are still in Thailand, you are a candidate to get your wife an IR-1 immigrant visa. An IR-1 filed here is fast and cheaper than starting it in the States.

Since you reside in LOS full time, you can directly apply at the USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services) in BKK. After they accept the I-130 petition for alien relative (usually within a week or two), you are free to leave LOS, return to the States, establish legal domicile, and go back to a good paying job. You could be back in mid-October if you start now.

Starting the petition is simple, especially since you have 8 years of marriage, and joint property.

Your wife should have zero problem getting a visa. Filing here, instead of from back in the States, cuts 75% of the processing time. She would get a visa in two to four months, often sooner.

PM me if you want details.

Some of us are in the same boat as you, worn down by living here. It distorts reality and brings on bad decisions.

Get to the States and get set up. That relief will help you to start seeing things clearer. Then, in a short time, your family will follow. Once in a new environment, feelings may very well change your relationship for the better.

Worse case scenario, you separate in a few years, but still get to see your kids, and make decent money.

[mango66]

I can't tell you about custody, but you need to see a US lawyer. Some states are community property states and some aren't. If they are, then she owns 1/2 of everything you own even in the states and even retirement accounts. If your state isn't community property, then anything you owned before the marriage is yours.

Don't forget child support and maybe even spousal support. See a lawyer.

[mango66]

Jimmy !

You are the man , you are the Papa !!

Every marriage have its up and down;

Look ad your kids, when they get up in the morning,

they see Papa, and you will see the smile in their face and they are happy you are with them,

Do you want they miss it in future, day for day,

and to ask Mamam, where is pappa, when he will be back ?

I have a 8y boy and 4y girl,

i still cant live full time in bkk,

the girl cry on airport , papa, when you will be back - soon;

You are lucky to have the chance to stay with your kids full time, day for day;

Head up,

make a short brake in US, and than back to your family !!

good luck

Franz

[slipperylobster]

If you died today, they would get by. But you aren't dead yet, so take the time to take care of yourself first and then take the time to consider their needs. If you've got no juice, then you are pretty much worthless to everyone around you, including yourself.

How long to take care of yourself and get the juice back? That's up to you and your sense of self-honesty.

Additionally, I have found that time often cures things like this. Not making any rash decisions or emotional outbursts... simply being patient and "listening" to life, or letting life finish with this "down time" it is testing you at.

Believe me, the clouds do indeed part, but if you aren't rested and of sound mind and feeling good about yourself, then you won;t see the sunshine for your feet.

That is my answer.

One hundred percent agreement.

I am torn 3 ways....kids in the Philippines, A wife here, and an elderly Mom who had to leave her home. Moral support is nice...but in order to make things work, you will need stability and financial strength. My son's mom just died....but he is making do and just opened his own bank account and enrolled himself in a private school. Dating his teachers younger sister. Even though I have a ton of stuff here in Thailand, he would rather stay there for now. He is getting his passport on his own, as well.....and will fly here for visits. I could not be happier. My mom is making do, with my 3 older brothers on watch, as well. I call frequently and visit when I can. It can all work, but if you do not have the wherewithal....then you will be useless. Nobody should have to rescue the rescuer.

[belg]

quick quitter ?

love lost? you mean you don't get enough s e x anymore ?

always possible to get a mia little on the side

you lived here so many years and suddenly you cannot support yourself ? married a rich hi-soso that gave you the easy way ?

[farangmick]

Jimmy.

Don't do anything rash, or while you are feeling emotional. In seven years living Thailand, this is the first time I have ever written anything on a forum.

GentlemanJim, Aussieroaming and especially mango66 sum it up about right. I have two sons 6 and 4 and I could never leave them. I couldn't convince my wife that I was too old to be a fist time father at 51, but she was right (always is).

If I fell out with wife, I would have three options. Return to England and just get by with no money to send to family, Kids have to go to a government school. Live a single life in Pattaya or BK and send a little money to family, or rent something local and cheap so I could see the kids and support them. We live in a town as far from anything interesting as it is possible to get, but I would still choose option 3.

Advice is cheap, but I believe that if you pack it in without trying everything to make it work, you will feel bad later.

[Kathiejs]

A quote from Rabbi Lionel Blue (British, so you probably never heard of him, but never mind):- "Love is not an emotion, it's a comittment". You decided to enter a relationship and create 2 children - are you now going to bail out and deprive them of one of their parents just because you are vaguely disatissfied because you feel that 'love' is lacking? What do you imagine happens in ALL long marriages? The crazy "in love" stage is a temporary emotional imbalance - when it fades you are left with genuine love, IF you work at it. They say that if you are feeling sad, smile - it will cheer you up. Same applies to love - act in a loving way and you will feel love grow. Act coldly, and you will feel cold. If you don't get real you are doomed to spend your life drifting from one relationship to another looking for the exciting illusion of being "in love" - and the price is paid by your children (concern for whose happiness doesn't feature in your post at all!)

[greenchair]

I have only one, after being child free most of my life. Hardest thing I ever did was the 1-6years getting a little easier now, but certainly would not do it again. Marriage takes a backburner for a while. if your wife is well off, the kids will be fine. if not well to do, don't expect them to have a very nice life. you really need to go away from the situation for maybe a month. Get your energy back and make a rational decision of what u want to do. Go To one of the islands. You might have a whole new perspective after a break. Remember --the decision you make now will effect all your lives forever.

[greenchair]

I have only one, after being child free most of my life. Hardest thing I ever did was the 1-6years getting a little easier now, but certainly would not do it again. Marriage takes a backburner for a while. if your wife is well off, the kids will be fine. if not well to do, don't expect them to have a very nice life. you really need to go away from the situation for maybe a month. Get your energy back and make a rational decision of what u want to do. Go To one of the islands. You might have a whole new perspective after a break. Remember --the decision you make now will effect all your lives forever.

[Johpa]

Try for joint custody, sharing time with the kids. Try raising then bilingually. Have them educated in the States, but in the earliest school years a few months in Thai schools won't hurt. Every summer send them back to Thailand. By the time they graduate high school they will be bilingual and possibly bi-cultural, and with a western education then at the very least they will have a decent future in Thailand, with options to boot. And if they continue on to college the options in life just increase. And who knows, maybe you can reconcile with the mother.

[choochoo]

Oh oh, another worthless father, another dead beat dad in the making.

YOU fathered them; you take care of them.

Take wife and kids back to America and your wife, THERE, will either return to loving or will fully hate you. But then you can deal with a decided situation in a country that forces dads to live up to their responsibility, another plus for YOUR children.

Be a man outside the bedroom, also, eh?

Taking Responsibility is not allowed here............................lol.

This marriage section is a goldmine of entertainment. Hope its just man and thai girl and not a lot about innocent children.

[wisemonkey]

Oh oh, another worthless father, another dead beat dad in the making.

YOU fathered them; you take care of them.

Take wife and kids back to America and your wife, THERE, will either return to loving or will fully hate you. But then you can deal with a decided situation in a country that forces dads to live up to their responsibility, another plus for YOUR children.

Be a man outside the bedroom, also, eh?

What a negative post, no helpful advice just ignorant judgemental garbage, pathetic.

[mike80122]

First, gird yourself.

Your kids already have passports. If you are still in Thailand, you are a candidate to get your wife an IR-1 immigrant visa. An IR-1 filed here is fast and cheaper than starting it in the States.

Since you reside in LOS full time, you can directly apply at the USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services) in BKK. After they accept the I-130 petition for alien relative (usually within a week or two), you are free to leave LOS, return to the States, establish legal domicile, and go back to a good paying job. You could be back in mid-October if you start now.

Starting the petition is simple, especially since you have 8 years of marriage, and joint property.

Your wife should have zero problem getting a visa. Filing here, instead of from back in the States, cuts 75% of the processing time. She would get a visa in two to four months, often sooner.

PM me if you want details.

Some of us are in the same boat as you, worn down by living here. It distorts reality and brings on bad decisions.

Get to the States and get set up. That relief will help you to start seeing things clearer. Then, in a short time, your family will follow. Once in a new environment, feelings may very well change your relationship for the better.

Worse case scenario, you separate in a few years, but still get to see your kids, and make decent money.

"Some of us are in the same boat as you, worn down by living here. It distorts reality and brings on bad decisions".

I am in the process of retiring to Thailand. I am a single male over 70 in perfect health and will use Thailand as a base to explore all of Asia. I may or may not stay more than a few years. I am very interested in your comments in the above quote starting with "worn down..........bad decisions".

I look forward to your comments.

[louse1953]

Oh oh, another worthless father, another dead beat dad in the making.

YOU fathered them; you take care of them.

Take wife and kids back to America and your wife, THERE, will either return to loving or will fully hate you. But then you can deal with a decided situation in a country that forces dads to live up to their responsibility, another plus for YOUR children.

Be a man outside the bedroom, also, eh?

Don't know about worthless father but the above comment is pretty useless.Lets presume the wife has a good job,you suggest she quits and they are both unemployed in the States,don't think thats going to help the marriage.What benefits is he/they due after 8 years away.How easy is it to get a job after know work record in the US for so long.Lets say hubby gets a job first,she is going to be reliant on him for money,in a sour relationship.The best idea is,he goes back,gets established,sends money to support kids and take it from their.Kids and maybe wife can visit/live later.You don't need to be forced to live up to your responcibilitys,you can do it of your own free will.

[louse1953]

We just kind of lost that loving feeling after the kids.

Jimmy

That is not an excuse to throw in the towel and threaten the wellbeing of 'family'. You need to work harder at it. Most marriages go through that phase, create the time and environment to get that loving feeling back. Kids are exhausting, especially ages 3 and 4 and they can drain away your spare emotion. It does not sound as if you are married to a terrible woman or a sponger, it sounds like you need some time. Where is Grandma to look after the kids for a long weekend, or perhaps her sister. Fight fight fight. You will not regret it in 10 years when you think, wow, we got through it. The successful people in all walks of life are the ones who are willing to go the extra mile. I got divorced a long time ago and with hindsight I should never have done so. Barely a day goes by when I do not regret my actions, but sadly, even if I had a time machine I could now not go back and rectify things because I would lose the wonderful wife and children I now have.

Speak to people on here as much as you like, find a friend to go out for a chat with, Thailand can be a lonely place for us foreigners when you cannot have a decent intellectual conversation with anyone in your first language and for most of us our Thai is not up to a deep and meaningful level of competence. Do not give up. You are displaying the symptoms of someone who needs time with the woman they married. Create that time. As one poster said, if you were planning to go to the states as a family in two years then go now and work to save your family. In 30 years you will realise that nothing is more important. Good luck.

Well said Jim,best advice i have read on this forum for a long time.

[rhodie]

Lots of good advice to read. You are probably feeling that everything is too much right now. Try get into a better head space to help you make the right decision.

[piersbeckett]

Mister Jimmy,

I'm going with louse1953 (#26); you'll both have a good idea as to whether your altered feelings constitute a fact to be faced or a problem to be solved; nothing, in my view, to do with 'being a man', anyway I thought all that was old hat and that us men were supposed to be getting in touch with our feminine sides but perhaps its gone back to the macho thing.

You might be in for a hard time so think carefully as Gentleman Jim indicated, yourself and the family coming out of this well is likely to depend on you walking the extra mile.

Good luck - Piers

[MisterJimmy]

Thanks for everyone's comments.