'Deadly blasts' in China's Xinjiang

[P45Mustang]

I wish I had kept my photograph of 3 Urighur waitresses.

Absolutely no chance that they would accept any nonsense from the CCP-PRC.

Fierce.

[P45Mustang]

And the waitress in a Chinese restaurant with a big bronze bust of Mao stood outside....just does what she is told without thinking or questioning.

[LawrenceChee]

And the waitress in a Chinese restaurant with a big bronze bust of Mao stood outside....just does what she is told without thinking or questioning.

The Chinese are quiet thinking people on the outside and really funny and slapstick with family on the inside ...who knows she was thinking of buying up Tesco or her next vacation ...

From a worker standpoint ...it's much easier to work with people who can actually follow instructions and are positive about their careers than just going on strikes all the time for petty pittance or listening to their "union leaders " ..,that's disruptive to the workflow and another western right that people of Xinjiang would hopefully not learn

However it takes top mgt minds to understand that ...

[P45Mustang]

^

Or maybe not. !

Word of advice, while we are on the subject of curry. If you are in California, never use the phrase "I could murder an Indian".

Nice nan bread in Xianjing.

[squarethecircle]

Here's a good article from Aus news about the XJ unrest:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-29/mcdonell-chinas-hotbed-who-created-the-violence/5775492

He rightly points out that both Xinjiang and Tibet are colonial states of the Han Chinese - taken over by outsiders for the benefit of outsiders, in the same way that European powers were colonizing 2-3 centuries ago - and that the PRC government has been brutal in smothering any form of cultural expression of the locals in either place.

So the above posters who were comparing this to radical Muslims' attack-by-infiltration on countries such as UK are not quite accurate - the XJ terrorists/freedom-fighters are not colonizing China, in fact it is the other way around. Still we don't see Tibetan monks blowing themselves up in crowded markets like the XJ attackers.

The author - mind you he has to self-censor as his livelihood depends on continuing permission to report in China - suggests that China is in fact unintentionally encouraging extremist response by its ruthless crackdowns on moderate Uighurs.

"No. The Uighurs have no options. By throwing Tohti into jail for the rest of his life - or even just sentencing him - they're showing that moderate action has no future. The only actions which have the option, or the potential for success, are the radical actions, because the Chinese colonial state is so violent and very vigorous in pushing down any sort of Uighur self consciousness."

Note that PRC also took all of Tohti's property leaving his wife and children helpless. Spiteful and malicious.

Edited October 1, 2014 by squarethecircle

[P45Mustang]

^

Yes. I think it's called bullying. The CCP boys in Beijing are renowned for it.

[squarethecircle]

"Yes. I think it's called bullying. The CCP boys in Beijing are renowned for it."

Another relevant point: given how the powers-that-be in PRC (as well as other far east Asian countries like Korea and Japan) treat their in-group - ie: their fellow race-members, ie: the glorious Han/Ri ethnicity - priority status over all and anyone else - I certainly would not want them taking over my land either.

[Publicus]

And the waitress in a Chinese restaurant with a big bronze bust of Mao stood outside....just does what she is told without thinking or questioning.

The Chinese are quiet thinking people on the outside and really funny and slapstick with family on the inside ...who knows she was thinking of buying up Tesco or her next vacation ...

From a worker standpoint ...it's much easier to work with people who can actually follow instructions and are positive about their careers than just going on strikes all the time for petty pittance or listening to their "union leaders " ..,that's disruptive to the workflow and another western right that people of Xinjiang would hopefully not learn

However it takes top mgt minds to understand that ...

My god.

[P45Mustang]

^

Yes.

Worrying isn't it.

[squarethecircle]

^^^yes well the "wrath" or "mercy" of Allah was costly for the US (and no NSA I am not a terrorist). Likewise this will be costly for the PRC as there are others in central Asia who are have their eyes on the resources (or possibly trade/smuggling routes???) in Xinjiang. These people have a vast army of brainwashed people willing to die by suicide attack for them, and like the CPC, are quite willing to murder for their cause. I read that Han Chinese visits to Malaysia are down by 60% after the MH370 murders which I have always assumed were due to Islamic terrorism intended to send a message to BJ ("stay home"), and in the same way I suspect whatever groups are behind the XJ terrorism will continue with these small-scale terroristic attacks against mostly innocents for the foreseeable future; it is called asymmetric warfare, Islamic jihad, and is a difficult problem facing us - though as far as I can see CPC-run China has chosen to be an enemy and is not part of "us".

Edited October 1, 2014 by squarethecircle

[Publicus]

Yes. Live and let live.

I visited Hong Kong recently. Booked a late room on Agoda. Complete nightmare. Hotel proprietor was muttering something about getting the Japanese room ready for me.

Hong Kong is definitely an interesting kettle of fish. Predominantly Cantonese speaking I believe, and 2000km from Beijing as the crow flies.

Bingo ....Chinese are distinctly different ...the west needs to understand that as they have asked for china to engage the west and also understand how that works.

We are in essence first a family unit and everything in the family and then the family name clan comes first.

This explains the Chinese networking of association clan houses you see around the world. We help ourselves first and this may not go well with everyone but it's the way we have done business ..."probably all the reason behind all the Chinese jokes ...oh you need something done I have a 4th uncle that has a factory"

We are politically astute and voice our opinions internally and it's vocal and critical when the government gets it wrong.

As such we are not repressed ..,we are just very selective of the people we share our deepest thinking of things with...

However it's not in our nature to be overtly critical in a public setting on TV and as such we look "oppressed" to the west with your TV shows where you can lambast any opinion or have a special day to make fun of your president.

I personally think it's undignified but I can see the humor and pun intended and why it may work in the western world ....the recent discussion on whether Obama can play golf or host a fundraiser where there was a city riot showcases how wide this gulf of cultural difference is as you can see in the east there is in general no reporting of what leaders do.

Most Asians believe it's their own business and we should not be nosy parkers and they should have their own space and privacy even if they are politicians.

As such I take it on myself to explain some of the thinking behind a Chinese mind and hope the majority of the forum enjoys that.

China is far from being perfect although the family unit will ensure that for years to come , the families that take an active interest in moulding their young will develop leaders of the future for the world just as it always has been for all cultures.

"We are in essence first a family unit and everything in the family and then the family name clan comes first. We are politically astute and voice our opinions internally and it's vocal and critical when the government gets it wrong.

As such we are not repressed ..,we are just very selective of the people we share our deepest thinking of things with...

However it's not in our nature to be overtly critical in a public setting on TV and as such we look "oppressed" to the west with your TV shows where you can lambast any opinion or have a special day to make fun of your president.

As such I take it on myself to explain some of the thinking behind a Chinese mind and hope the majority of the forum enjoys that."

You have some 'splainin to do Mr. Chee that is well beyond anything you posted above. I don't enjoy much of anything you post so maybe this time you can depart radically from your pedestrian norm.

Here's a 17 year-old Chinese kid, Joshua Wong, that a Chinese lawyer in Hong Kong said is "every mother's son." Here's a Chinese kid leading a protest movement in Hong Kong which makes him exceptional yet he is described as " filial, polite, principled, hard-working."

Here's a Chinese kid whose parents say, "“We have always brought up Joshua to be compassionate, caring, principled and loyal and we are very proud of all that he is doing to make Hong Kong a better place for his generation and our generation.”

Here's a Chinese kid who in 2012 founded the student movement Scholarism that caused the CCP Boyz in Beijing to withdraw their new "patriotic curriculum" that was to have taught Hong Kong youth in the schools that multi party democracy is wrong and bad and that the one party state of the CCP is the universal human ideal.

So what happened to you??!!?

Joshua Wong: the teenager who is the public face of the Hong Kong protests

Co-founder of Scholarism, which kickstarted protests, has been campaigning since he was 15 but plays down talk of being a hero

Joshua Wong speaks to fellow students on the street outside the Hong Kong Government Complex. “My teachers have always said my only strength is talking and that I talk very fast.” Photograph: Chris McGrath/Getty Images

Since his release on Sunday – ordered by a judge who said police had held him for an unreasonably long time – he has declined to discuss what happened in detention or to be drawn into discussing his career as an activist. On Wednesday he parried such queries politely but firmly: “These personal interview questions we can ask later.”

Chinese state media have attacked Scholarism as extremists and a pro-Beijing Hong Kong-based paper claimed that “US forces” had worked to cultivate Wong as a “political superstar” – accusations Wong has dismissed.

Despite his ardour and bluntness he is not a rabble-rouser. “He’s passionate but measured; measured beyond his years,” said Michael Vidler, the human rights lawyer who acted for Wong following his detention.

“He’s so young but so wise that you can’t help but have a lot of time for him … He is every mother’s son – filial, polite, principled, hard-working.”

Vidler described Wong’s parents, Grace and Roger, as “a very quiet, middle-class, ordinary family”, rather than activists.

Wong has said: “They are not helicopter parents and do not spoil me … They have given me freedom, which has shaped Joshua Wong as he is now.”

But they have taken part in protests in the past and in a blog post a few years ago, Wong said his father had started taking him to visit the poor and suffering when he was a child: “He told me that I should care for the abandoned in the city. They had not heard of the gospel, and were living solitary and hard lives.”

The couple have described their son’s detention as political persecution, adding in their statement: “We have always brought up Joshua to be compassionate, caring, principled and loyal and we are very proud of all that he is doing to make Hong Kong a better place for his generation and our generation.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/01/joshua-wong-teenager-public-face-hong-kong-protests

Could the CCP produce such a distinguished and balanced young activist who passionately yet calmly believes in his cause and who naturally attracts an association of a hundred thousand young people who share his views? The CCP on June 4-5 1989 massacred its equivalent young in Tianamen Square. How does one explain this radical and barbarian response by Beijing to its own youth in its own country?

Mr. Chee......?

Echoing Tiananmen, 17-year-old Hong Kong student prepares for democracy battle.

By Wilfred Chan and Yuli Yang, CNN

Mon September 22, 2014

.

Joshua Wong, 17, is the founder of pro-democracy student group Scholarism. In 2012, he led as many as 120,000 people in a protest that overturned a pro-Communist school curriculum in Hong Kong.

.

Hong Kong (CNN) — He’s one of the fieriest political activists in Hong Kong — he’s been called an “extremist” by China’s state-run media — and he’s not even old enough to drive.

Meet 17-year-old Joshua Wong, a skinny, bespectacled teen whose meager physical frame belies the ferocity of his politics. Over the last two years, the student has built a pro-democracy youth movement in Hong Kong that one veteran Chinese dissident says is just as significant as the student protests at Tiananmen, 25 years ago.

Echoing the young campaigners who flooded Beijing’s central square in 1989, the teen activist wants to ignite a wave of civil disobedience among Hong Kong’s students. His goal? To pressure China into giving Hong Kong full universal suffrage.

Student strike begins in Hong Kong

Wong’s movement builds on years of pent-up frustration in Hong Kong.

https://johnib.wordpress.com/2014/09/23/echoing-tiananmen-17-year-old-hong-kong-student-prepares-for-democracy-battle/

Mr Chee......?

Edited October 1, 2014 by Publicus

[P45Mustang]

From the BBC article referred to in the OP.

"China blames the unrest on Uighur separatists inspired by overseas terror groups, but activists say Beijing's repressive policies in the region are fuelling violence."

One or the other or a bit of both?

It kind of begs the question 'what is moderate and what is radical?".....if you get my drift.

Either way, looks like the people of XinJiang are getting militant.

[LawrenceChee]

I guess in some cultures heckling for a response is the norm and the basis for the freedom of speech. Apologies if that has not been my style of posting.

Good for Joshua that he believes in his points passionately and he has the right to bring forward his opinion ....to move that ahead to drive a balanced solution between ideologically different sides, that takes more than passion. I admire his start and would like to see the finish

He now has the media eyes on him and of course for some a hero's perspective to some for speaking up ...the next step would be if he would join up the CCP and create this new basis / ideals he would like to see in a government setting and bring forth his points and continue to drive China's middle ground of politics into reality ...now that would be a measurement of his success if he can join the CCP party leadership and effect that change ...it would be a big step forward.

Within the party leadership there are moderates and there are hard core activists...balancing that and keeping all happy is nothing new in the arena of politics as this is one similarity they share with the western environment . It's politics of give / take and points to be scored.

I am happy to hear his parents are proud of him and his upbringing. There is much to be proud of as much as there are millions of PRC parents doing the same in China, hardworking middle class folks who want the best in their children

Edited October 2, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[P45Mustang]

Chinese don't do passion. It takes them out of their comfort zone.

Young Joshua must have been mixing with Westerners.

Anything he does or says is likely to go in Xi Jinping's left ear and out the right.

Let's hope no bullets are involved like Tiananmen Square.

[Publicus]

It's a concern of everyone to see Al-qaeda struggling to get back on their feet but the CCP Boyz in Beijing are fuelling the fire.

Having been torn up by the United States, Al-qaeda is becoming active in India but by focusing on Xin Jiang in the westernmost PRC, where Afghanistan and several Muslim countries have borders, Al-qaeda is going to find fertile causes and a rich breeding ground among another group of angry Muslims.

While the U.S. and its coalition partners are setting down upon IS in Iraq and Syria, the CCP Boyz are creating their own new menace in the PRChina where Muslims had been treated well historically speaking until the CCP came to power in 1949. Most of China's Muslims fought against Mao Zedong during the civil war Mao won.

The photo more than suggests real and serious problems for the CCP Boyz.

Al-qaeda Calls for Caliphate in China’s Xinjiang

By Joshua Philipp, Epoch Times | October 26, 2014

Last Updated: October 27, 2014 6:58 am

In this file photo, the Chinese People's Armed Police watch a Muslim ethnic Uighur woman protest in Urumqi in China's far west Xinjiang province on July 7, 2009. (Peter Parks/AFP/Getty Images)

A new recruiting magazine for al-Qaeda has a two-page spread that lists China’s abuses of Uyghurs in its far-west region of Xinjiang, which the Uyghurs call East Turkestan.

The magazine, “Resurgence,” was just launched by al-Qaeda’s propaganda branch, al-Sahab media organization. The inforgraphic appears in its first edition.

The infographic features “10 Facts” about Xinjiang. It says the region “remained independent of China for more than 1800 years” yet for the last 237 years it has been “under Chinese occupation at various intervals.”

An two-page infographic in the new al-Qaeda magazine, “Resurgence,” calls attention to the Chinese regime’s suppression of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. The magazine calls for Xinjiang to be brought into an Islamic Caliphate. (Screenshot/al-Sahab media organization)

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1043863-al-qaeda-calls-for-caliphate-in-chinas-xinjiang/?utm_source=Epoch10&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1

Edited October 28, 2014 by Publicus

[squarethecircle]

Meanwhile a friend who was just cycling in southern XJ says the reported death toll of nearly 100 killed in "riots" in the Kashgar region was far under-exaggerated, locals said it was closer to 1000. I know you've got something against the PTB in the PRC Publicus but these aren't Chinese shock troops doing the murders, in fact I read that XJ based terrorist groups are crossing over into the NW region of Pakistan to train...in the exact same area which US drone strikes targeted, Chinese intelligence is aware of this and the central government in Islamabad appears unable (or perhaps for some, unwilling) to stop it. One wonders if Pakistanis will mount the same level of protest when China sends drones in to strike this area, I think it inevitably will face the choice between doing that and having its civilians/police/military murdered.

[Publicus]

The CCP Boyz in Beijing aren't going to be sending drones anywhere under the present circumstance, whether reconnaissance or armed drones. China's neighbors from Japan to Singapore to India would become alarmed if the CCP Boyz were to start bombing another country for any reason. The CCP Boyz have too many unneighborly border and territorial disputes going on to start bombing anybody and in another country besides. Neither are the CCP Boyz the United States engaged in a post-9/11 global war against the extremist Muslim jihadists.

The CCP Boyz in Beijing are certain they can settle the matter of Xinjiang in Xinjiang and to do it there once and for all. The Boyz believe absolutely in the forceful use of will and the willful use of state force against rebellions or insurgencies. As long as the Boyz confine their actions to brutality within their own borders they effectively can get away with an awfully lot while ignoring condemnatory reports from organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

The more jihadist the Uyghurs might become, the more internationally isolated they would become to include from the U.S.

To date, suicide bombings by Uyghurs have not occurred despite what some can call suicide sword attacks by groups of Uyghurs in busy train stations in some major metropolitan areas of the PRC. The absence of suicide bombings is taken to indicate radical Muslim jihad is still not a factor of the separatist sentiment in Xinjiang. The central issue remains that of how the CCP Boyz are going about their colonization of the people of the region. So far it's been all wrong so the troubles will continue until Beijing gets real about it.

[squarethecircle]

"The CCP Boyz have too many unneighborly border and territorial disputes going on to start bombing anybody and in another country besides. Neither are the CCP Boyz the United States engaged in a post-9/11 global war against the extremist Muslim jihadists."

I bet you a pork roll bun with egg and cheese and beer they will publicly consider this if not actually carry it out in the next 5 years, the Ch. authorities already did publicly state drone strikes were being considered in the hunt for the Golden Triangle boss Naw Kham who was said to have ordered the executions of the 13 sailors in the Mekong River incident in 2011, but ultimately he was captured by an international police raid (strangely no word on the reports that the killings were actually carried out by rogue Thai special force units with RTA-issued M-16's). Maybe they will find a more politically expedient way to crack down on it, but I don't think they're going to just stand by and let it turn into a full-blown terrorist insurgency as it appears will happen.

Ch. intelligence has publicly acknowledged that militants (apparently some are also Kazakh or Uzbekis) are crossing over into Pakistan with support of younger radically-minded officers in the Pakistan Army; the older generation is loyal to PRC but the new ones, no. Glad to provide links if necessary.

"The absence of suicide bombings is taken to indicate radical Muslim jihad is still not a factor of the separatist sentiment in Xinjiang."

Well it may not be the root driver of it but it effects how it plays out. Again glad to provide links if necessary but I read that many Uighur women are now dressing up in the full head-to-toe-veil in the style of Chechen black widow suicide bombers, this is not traditional clothing and in fact indicates a turn towards radicalism, but as has been widely reported that's to be expected, with the arrest of the moderate Uighur scholar Mr. Tohti, that the "moderates" do not have a voice and this will lead to sympathy and support for terrorist/insurgency, much like in southern Thailand.

Basically the point I'd like to make to you that this is one evil being matched with a different evil, the Boyz get a kick out of bullying people around to get their way but seem to have met a match with Islamic jihad terrorists, I still wonder what the whole story is with MH370 as KL is a known thoroughpoint for jihadists and anti-China sentiment is high there, including among the ruling Barisan Nacional gangsters. I guess it's pointless to banter about but more interesting than the convo at the local pub...

Edited November 2, 2014 by squarethecircle

[Publicus]

"The CCP Boyz have too many unneighborly border and territorial disputes going on to start bombing anybody and in another country besides. Neither are the CCP Boyz the United States engaged in a post-9/11 global war against the extremist Muslim jihadists."

I bet you a pork roll bun with egg and cheese and beer they will publicly consider this if not actually carry it out in the next 5 years, the Ch. authorities already did publicly state drone strikes were being considered in the hunt for the Golden Triangle boss Naw Kham who was said to have ordered the executions of the 13 sailors in the Mekong River incident in 2011, but ultimately he was captured by an international police raid (strangely no word on the reports that the killings were actually carried out by rogue Thai special force units with RTA-issued M-16's). Maybe they will find a more politically expedient way to crack down on it, but I don't think they're going to just stand by and let it turn into a full-blown terrorist insurgency as it appears will happen.

Ch. intelligence has publicly acknowledged that militants (apparently some are also Kazakh or Uzbekis) are crossing over into Pakistan with support of younger radically-minded officers in the Pakistan Army; the older generation is loyal to PRC but the new ones, no. Glad to provide links if necessary.

"The absence of suicide bombings is taken to indicate radical Muslim jihad is still not a factor of the separatist sentiment in Xinjiang."

Well it may not be the root driver of it but it effects how it plays out. Again glad to provide links if necessary but I read that many Uighur women are now dressing up in the full head-to-toe-veil in the style of Chechen black widow suicide bombers, this is not traditional clothing and in fact indicates a turn towards radicalism, but as has been widely reported that's to be expected, with the arrest of the moderate Uighur scholar Mr. Tohti, that the "moderates" do not have a voice and this will lead to sympathy and support for terrorist/insurgency, much like in southern Thailand.

Basically the point I'd like to make to you that this is one evil being matched with a different evil, the Boyz get a kick out of bullying people around to get their way but seem to have met a match with Islamic jihad terrorists, I still wonder what the whole story is with MH370 as KL is a known thoroughpoint for jihadists and anti-China sentiment is high there, including among the ruling Barisan Nacional gangsters. I guess it's pointless to banter about but more interesting than the convo at the local pub...

Salient points to which I would add initially that the CCP Boyz and, interestingly enough the civilian and military analysts in Washington, are well aware of China's history of otherwise prosperous rulers to include entire dynasties of rulers dethroned because of some social upset or a sudden social upheaval that comes from out of nowhere. The cause of upsets vary greatly, from earthquakes to famine to servile or civil insurrection, but the history of China as most Chinese will themselves say is a record of hopes dashed, promise spoiled, foolishness reigning. In addition to it being true on several fronts to include the property market and banking, It is also going in that direction for the Boyz concerning Xin Jiang.

The Boyz know that a significant contributing factor to the downfall of the former USSR was its inability -- it's inattention and indifference -- toward its non-Rus ethnic minorities spanning the country's vast expanse to the Pacific. To try to sidestep the wandering and random axeman, the Boyz have officially recognized 56 ethnic minorities in the PRC to fawn over. The Uygurs seem to have fallen off the list, if they were even in fact on it (they still are on the list if I recall correctly).

While waging a campaign of repression, punishment, death against one of your official celebrated minorities strikes you and I as counter-intuitive at the least, it is a given that it is in fact the predictable intuitive reaction and historical response by the Chinese elites. It is therefore ironic that the CCP Boyz who pride themselves as having learned the lessons of Chinese history should ensnare themselves in the very same historical traps as their ancestors so notably did.

I'm still waiting to see whether the Boyz have met their match in the Uyghur Muslims whose red zone is much larger on the dial than is that of the standard PRChinese discontents. I certainly wish well to both and to the many other groups of CCP resistors.

It is clear the Uyghurs fight back in ways no other minority or identifiable group in the PRC do or has done when provoked. Falun Gong went peacefully if not entirely, farmers' protests of which there are many have had no impact on the larger society or the social and political order, HKG still is astir but everyone remains solidly in one piece, Taiwan remains precariously posititioned but stable, anti-pollution activists give no indication of raising the Jolly Roger against the CCP and so on.

The Uyghurs constitute a radically different matter so we'll have to see how that may develop. I strongly suspect the Boyz in Beijing will make it worse yet for everyone to include themselves.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Publicus

[squarethecircle]

"I certainly wish well to both and to the many other groups of CCP resistors."

I don't, most of the ones I know have been "cool", certainly friendlier than your average slave or slave-master in Chinaland, but a sizeable number of the ones in Shanghai seemed like bandits, worth the bad reputation. I'd have no problem if they were going after the actual bosses responsible for whatever's going on in XJ, and suspect in the future PRC will become a bigger target for international jihadists, in fact read a message exactly to this point posted by the SE Asian jihadist network JI, stating they plan to make a super-state encompassing the Malaysian peninsula basically Songkhla down, Indonesia, Borneo, S Phillippines, all of whose territory and resources China is interested in. That came out about the same time as the MH370 incident, which is why I have thought that was a non-publicized, subtle, but rather clear message to China to "back off". No press release as that would implicate higher-level authorities in the BN government but it seems clear there was some form of nation-state-level involvement in that. Anwar asked the same in an interview a few months back. Meanwhile I saw some PRC bosses in Laos a few weeks ago, walking around LPB like they own the place, anywhere they s**t becomes holy, etc. Bad colonists, but those aren't the ones who are getting the brunt of the force by XJ terrorists, much like the dead in S Thailand is primarily low-level civilians, volunteer security, infantry boys from the North, etc., not higher-level crooks on either side.

(another thought that comes to mind is how the people of Dresden suffered dreadfully even though they had some of the least support for the Nazis in all of Germany, and the Emperor of Japan was let off the hook for war crimes charges, for political reasons, even though he was directly responsible).

Hence no sympathy here.

"I strongly suspect the Boyz in Beijing will make it worse yet for everyone to include themselves."

Well they seem to have chosen their own prosperity in favour of an internally strong country, not sure how they're worse off.