Koh Tao murders: Police free bar owners and look for ex-village headman's son

[metisdead]

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[trainman34014]

I wonder how many overstayers were caught on Koh Tao because of this.

Who gives a toss? If they have overstayed they shouldn't be there so it's pay up and get out time.....i hope it hurts.

[BangkokHank]

I think the police have turned over a new leaf and are going to pursue this case, no matter where or who it leads to. I believe it is because the army has their back; both to support them and to keep them on the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

If they can bring in the guilty parties and make a credible case against them (no matter who is their father), it will go a long way to restoring respect and confidence in the RTP.

I think you're being a bit naive. The Thai police didn't change from one day to the next from being corrupt to the core to being righteous and respect-worthy. More likely this is what happened: The investigation started off in the hands of the local Koh Tao police, who are beholden to / buyable by local big-shots. It is for that reason that the investigation got off to such a farcical start. The local cops had no interest in finding the real killer(s) and went out of their way to lead the investigation down the wrong path - while doing their best to appear to be interested in solving the case. When it became obvious what was happening, international pressure grew - to the point where officers from Bangkok were sent in to investigate. These officers from Bangkok are not beholden to the Koh Tao big-shots, so they were able to do some real investigation and will likely eventually apprehend and arrest the killer. It has nothing to do with anybody finally deciding that honesty is best.

So I guess the real lesson from this tragic story is that whenever a police investigation is being clearly obstructed by corrupt local cops, we the public have a duty to keep the investigation in the (international) public eye until police (probably equally corrupt but) from a different part of the country and therefore not beholden to the party trying to cover up the crime being investigated, are brought in to investigate. This we can do via social media and discussion boards such as this one.

[Iumentum]

Why would such information as one helping Sean wash off blood be held back for so long? This whole investigation is as fishy as it can get!!!

[angsta]

You don't know what you're doing.

[mrtoad]

Let the games begin, as the negotiations start; to reduce charges, or cover up further. The KT mafia have a lot too lose financially, and they are not going to go down without a fight.

All the more reason for tourism boycott of Koh Tao.

[Utley]

Police revealed that two Thais had been interviewed but were released after refusing to provide DNA samples: What the Murder of Two British Tourists Tells Us About Thailand’s Dark Side

Where in the OP does it say they refused to give DNA samples ?

Click on the link in my post and read the article - duh.

[eeworldwide]

Where is Sean now?

I'm very very surprised that he was allowed to go free so quickly. Not casting any aspersions here, but for the sake of the victims and solving this crime, he should surely have to go undergo DNA testing too?

Murder cases are always complex, it's never going to be a cut and dried scenario - this is not manslaughter, this is a complex situation with multiple factors, and there has to be at least 2 people involved, due to the rape factor and the magnitude of the injuries involved, which ultimately culminated in a gruesome murder.

We are inching closer, but the police on all sides need to keep the pressure up.

I am sure that if Sean is in the UK, he will be questioned by the forces there and will probably have to undergo DNA testing.

[phanangpete]

Police revealed that two Thais had been interviewed but were released after refusing to provide DNA samples: What the Murder of Two British Tourists Tells Us About Thailand’s Dark Side

Where in the OP does it say they refused to give DNA samples ?

Did you even read the article he linked to?

"Police revealed that the two Thais had been interviewed but were released after refusing to provide DNA samples.".

His comment is even the quote from that article!

That piece of information is to be found in ton of articles about this case.

Well that stinks of guilt, i now know who my moneys on !

[mrtoad]

You don't know what you're doing.

I've said from the start that the local BIB did know what they are doing, there farce was an attempt to cover up their local paymasters, problem being it got to big, hence all the scurrying around. This is continuing to be a farce, with the latest announcements etc, and now threats of defamation. What a joke.

The more this goes viral on social media the better, as it's likely the BIB are hoping it will die down a bit and get swept under the carpet. Trying not to be cynical, but having been here a while, there's been a number of other cases such as tis, that just seem to disappear, with nothing happening; Chiang Mai, Kanchanaburi, Phi Phi and Pai (although they got there in the end)

The British reporters I am sure will keep up the pressure.

[nev]

This is not over by a long shot, it looks like they are still trying to frame someone else and cover up the real murderer's, i will be very surprised if it is all wrapped up by Friday as stated before.

There are so many twists and turns it i like watching a Thai soapy.

Edited September 24, 2014 by george

[Iumentum]

Where is Sean now?

I'm very very surprised that he was allowed to go free so quickly. Not casting any aspersions here, but for the sake of the victims and solving this crime, he should surely have to go undergo DNA testing too?

Murder cases are always complex, it's never going to be a cut and dried scenario - this is not manslaughter, this is a complex situation with multiple factors, and there has to be at least 2 people involved, due to the rape factor and the magnitude of the injuries involved, which ultimately culminated in a gruesome murder.

We are inching closer, but the police on all sides need to keep the pressure up.

I am sure that if Sean is in the UK, he will be questioned by the forces there and will probably have to undergo DNA testing.

I actually think that i read somewhere that the "guitarman" was interrogated and did provide DNA samples quite early in the investigation.

I am not saying that they should rule out Sean as the murder, but i honestly find this whole thing very fishy. Why would such information as Sean being full of blood be held back for so long? I sure wouldn't eat that information raw, and just believe such thing coming from a family member of prime suspects.

[keeffy48]

Todays comments from the U.K Independent newspaper concerning this horrific crime.

You need to go to the main page and then Asian News section as like yesterday the article link url comes back with a ''404'' notice.

One wonders why that should be?

http://www.independent.co.uk

Maybe if you gave proper link it wouldn't go to a 404. No links on that website is as the link you provided there, so my guess if that the mistake is on you and not some kind of conspiracy.

I think this maybe what you are looking for .... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-police-identify-two-suspects-over-deaths-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-9751056.html?origin=internalSearch

Edited September 24, 2014 by keeffy48

[FarangWorld]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

Edited September 24, 2014 by FarangWorld

[NeverSure]

I think the police have turned over a new leaf and are going to pursue this case, no matter where or who it leads to. I believe it is because the army has their back; both to support them and to keep them on the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

If they can bring in the guilty parties and make a credible case against them (no matter who is their father), it will go a long way to restoring respect and confidence in the RTP.

I think you're being a bit naive. The Thai police didn't change from one day to the next from being corrupt to the core to being righteous and respect-worthy. More likely this is what happened: The investigation started off in the hands of the local Koh Tao police, who are beholden to / buyable by local big-shots. It is for that reason that the investigation got off to such a farcical start. The local cops had no interest in finding the real killer(s) and went out of their way to lead the investigation down the wrong path - while doing their best to appear to be interested in solving the case. When it became obvious what was happening, international pressure grew - to the point where officers from Bangkok were sent in to investigate. These officers from Bangkok are not beholden to the Koh Tao big-shots, so they were able to do some real investigation and will likely eventually apprehend and arrest the killer. It has nothing to do with anybody finally deciding that honesty is best.

So I guess the real lesson from this tragic story is that whenever a police investigation is being clearly obstructed by corrupt local cops, we the public have a duty to keep the investigation in the (international) public eye until police (probably equally corrupt but) from a different part of the country and therefore not beholden to the party trying to cover up the crime being investigated, are brought in to investigate. This we can do via social media and discussion boards such as this one.

Just a question then.

Very early it was posted as news here that the Thais had asked the US FBI for help in solving this.

Next it was in the news here that the Thais had decided they didn't either want or need the FBI.

Next it was discovered that the Thais can't even do real DNA testing and they subbed that out to Singapore in at least some cases. FWIW, Singapore doesn't have anything near to what the US and the Yard have in DNA database and technology, which they share.

I believe that if the Thais had sealed the island and immediately brought in either the Yard or the FBI that this would have been a done deal some time ago.

So how would I in good conscious say that the Thais are doing their best, and really want to solve this case?

This isn't a trick question.

[Tony121]

I read somewhere yesterday that he still had blood on his guitar,

[monk213]

This is not over by a long shot, it looks like they are still trying to frame someone else and cover up the real murderer's, i will be very surprised if it is all wrapped up by Friday as stated before.

There are so many twists and turns it i like watching a Thai soapy.

Apart from the fact the acting is better .... or worse I cannot tell

[lildragon]

The uncle cleared and the boys are 'studying' into Bangkok eh? Hollywood couldn't of come up with a better script.

[Tatsujin]

Conflicting stories/information . . . various other articles state the 2 men were released after REFUSING to supply DNA samples, yet here it states they provided samples and the samples did not match the suspect DNA and they were released.

[Iumentum]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

No wonder that there is RTP bashing, people are very skeptic for a good reason. What does a civilian do on a crime scene to begin with just as an example? Same civilian who are caught on CCTV. Same civilian who start to play private investigator with his police friend. Same civilian who was having a conflict with the murder victims before the murder took place. Same civilian who was interrogated but denied to provide DNA sample. I could go on.....

Don't come and tell us that there is no reason to be skeptic about this while investigation.

[Iumentum]

Todays comments from the U.K Independent newspaper concerning this horrific crime.

You need to go to the main page and then Asian News section as like yesterday the article link url comes back with a ''404'' notice.

One wonders why that should be?

http://www.independent.co.uk

Maybe if you gave proper link it wouldn't go to a 404. No links on that website is as the link you provided there, so my guess if that the mistake is on you and not some kind of conspiracy.

I think this maybe what you are looking for .... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-police-identify-two-suspects-over-deaths-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-9751056.html?origin=internalSearch

I was not looking for it, id did find by following instructions. I was trying to explain him that he did not provide correct link, and that was the reason for 404, not some kind of conspiracy.

[monk213]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

C'mon, I have not been a Sherlock but it is not difficult to totally lock down an area within a few hours with the authority. It is also not difficult, be careful and treat every bit of evidence as if it were the most precious gem. Furthermore, it is also not difficult if you are in power of authority to detain suspects and people under suspicion instead of letting them walk out of the door. That is a given. Oh yea also this quote; 'No Thai could have committed this crime'

[tonyboy33]

madmitch, on 24 Sept 2014 - 09:09, said:

We all know the police have been made to look foolish throughout this investigation but I would also say the same about Thailand's English language press which has been filled with inaccuracies, conflicting stories, confusing reporting and poor use of the English language.

'We all know the police have been made to look foolish throughout this investigation ...'

Poor English; wrong tense! The Police made themselves look foolish; they needed no help. The Press should be heavily criticized for reporting rumours and non-facts and for the disrespect they continually showed the victims, their families and their friends.

[ttthailand]

Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

[culicine]

The uncle cleared and the boys are 'studying' into Bangkok eh? Hollywood couldn't of come up with a better script.

Hmm...how as DNA testing done so quickly? I thought they just gave a sample yesterday? That's not even 24 hours. Previous tests seemed to take longer. I'll bet noone will test positive for this. Apart from the missing son, who else is a suspect now?

[Utley]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence. Thailand is under martial law - remember? Civil rights and jurisprudence don't exist in Thailand today.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Utley

[BestBitterPhuket]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

You must have been blindfolded, every minute you have been in Thailand and all your information about the country comes from tourist brochures. That's the impression you give. Beyond naive...

[culicine]

Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

According to ThaiPBS report, above, the uncle and his brother have tested negative.

[green job]

My wife has family that live on Koh Tao and Koh Phagnan.

She had a chat with her cousin yesterday on Koh Tao and everyone there knows who did it. Probably known since the day after the crime.

Therefore, the police must have known too.

Only conflicting info from her, was that it was the nephew of a village headman ??

Looks like they will get the right people eventually though, more due to international pressure than good police work.

RIP the deceased..

Then tell your wife to report to the head of police,or army,and give them the info they need. In the UK this would be law.

I quite like my wife alive, but thanks for the advice...

The info she got is the same as the police are acting on now, so she does not need to do anything. Besides it is up to the Koh Tao residents to spill the beans

OK point taken, But I in my typicle british way think the army have the power to deal with this scum, They should just move in,and sort out all the bullsxxt now.

We the World Everyone now wants to know the truth. The island has had it anyway.

By the way, enyone got any idea of the price of a house there now? Must be a good investment,if you can wait 50 years for this to cool down

[Iumentum]

Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

According to ThaiPBS report, above, the uncle and his brother have tested negative.

Didn't they just provide DNA sample? How can that be known as negative already?