Special report: Investigation into Koh Tao murders seriously flawed

[Don Aleman]

Clearly commenters do not accept that the investigation includes everything essential to qualify as an investigator. 1). High ranking relative/lottsa money, 2 ), A proven ineffective method of detection, 3), No yellow crime scene tape, \and,

of top priority,4), Pictures of yourself scratching your head furiously !

[joedot]

With the new condom revelation,

and the zero likelihood any rapist killer with a mafia angle would use a condom on anyone, much less a pretty blonde,

my new suspicion is, Miller and the girl were getting started,

he got hit from behind with the iron bar and then staggered, tried to fight, but was quickly drowned,

that takes two guys,

the third subdues the girl with the hoe,

then they go to town

I've heard a lot of theories and I didn't feel they were right. But your theory may just be spot on. Had to have been more than one and probably 3 as you mention.

[kkup]

I wonder how long it would take to get deported if a reporter asked the chief of police how much his cut was to cover up the crime..

Edited September 26, 2014 by kkup

[mojorison]

And mr. General, in case you don't know, there is a very powerful world out there that demands you do your job and get results.

Anyone who thought a military junta was a good idea need think again. We have just witnessed the true intentions and heart of whoever it is in charge. That guy in Singapore, with his lustful disdain of southerners would have bagged these monsters in a second, and welcomed the adulation of millions... these guys now are not interested in adulation, quite the contrary.

[slipperx]

Not really. Put on inside out.

"Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside".

Wow - there's a new one!

Are you mad? Whichever way it is on there must be DNA on both the inside and out unless some other object than the male organ was inside it. Even then there would be traces of what it was - protection for another object used by these animals?

[pantareiyingluck]

Before we start jumping all over the thai police let me ask one question.

How many murders go unsolved in your old country where they have all the latest equipment and training.

There are a couple of things to rmember.

1 KT is a back packers paradise because there is no police and it is a free and easy place.

That is good if you want to let loose but also makes life easy forsomeone that wants to do harm.

2. because it is an island there is in actuality no way to stop boats fromleaving

There is no Police stationed at KT ?

Let the noodle shop owners perform the investigation then. They can't make it worse than what has happened so far with the RTP.

[2befrank]

For those who think these murders will not have an effect on Thai tourism are probably correct.

But this investigation surely IS going to have an effect on it.

Prayuth.... You know how things work here, you know how money buys off your police, you can see for yourself that this investigation is 100% Thai style and not unusual.

Are you not ashamed that now the whole world knows that if you get killed here, there is NO chance of getting justice if the murderer is connected.

The world is getting a true taste of 'Thainess' That us expats are already totally aware of and most of us knew from day one exactly where this was going to go.

[pantareiyingluck]

With the new condom revelation,

and the zero likelihood any rapist killer with a mafia angle would use a condom on anyone, much less a pretty blonde,

my new suspicion is, Miller and the girl were getting started,

he got hit from behind with the iron bar and then staggered, tried to fight, but was quickly drowned,

that takes two guys,

the third subdues the girl with the hoe,

then they go to town

To take another Yabaa tablet

[slipperx]

The main problem with "Special Reports" such as this is that these are the views of the Nation newspaper and as far as I can see, not comments from any expert.

Based only on what has been released into the public sector by the investigation teams.

IMHO, a major flaw with media in general and the readers of the majority of people that believe everything the see in print. Articles written, likely in good faith, displaying the viewpoint of the writer of the article. Sensationalized.

Yes, it appears that mistakes have been made and not what people would imagine in CSI or suchlike series. This is the real world chaps, not Hollywood.

IMHO of course.

It's doesn't feel like the real world when such utter police ineptitude is on display and they are proud of themselves. Edited September 26, 2014 by slipperx

[RedCardinal]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

[JacknDanny]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

Why discard said condom?

If it was premeditated, the perpetrator would simply take the condom with him.

Besides, according to earlier reports, DNA was found in semen in female victim.

[Number 3]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

These attackers are animals. They predate. They attack. They flee. They hide.

You have not described the action of an attacker at all here but the actions of a criminal mastermind. Wrong tree mate. Ask anyone in the know on samui phang na or koh tao......

[slipperx]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

A very good point!

[Mooner]

Before we start jumping all over the thai police let me ask one question.

How many murders go unsolved in your old country where they have all the latest equipment and training.

There are a couple of things to rmember.

1 KT is a back packers paradise because there is no police and it is a free and easy place.

That is good if you want to let loose but also makes life easy forsomeone that wants to do harm.

2. because it is an island there is in actuality no way to stop boats fromleaving

1. There is police on Ko Tao!!

2. A boat off the island looking out for leaving vessels. Realistically can only head south to the mainland or west to chumphon.

[Triplebank999]

Why would they expect to find a woman's DNA on the inside of a condom?

Presumably they didn't expect that, why would you ask that question?

[slipperx]

Nothing has changed here has it?

No sense of inadequacy from the police so they will continue their corrupt ways.

No initiative response really from Prayuth and his government.

The lack of progress in this case rather mirrors Thailand. Going backwards!

There really isn't any intention of moving this place forwards Is there?

I am so sad for Thailand could be so, so much better than it is or is looking like it will be for my kids. So sad!

[Thai at Heart]

Yes of course. Social media did it.

They have had how many new stories and new avenues for leads per day printed? 3 or 4 at least.

BP, Nation, Kaosod, BBC, Mail, and others all getting fed slightly different stories from slightly different levels. And they reckon social media did it.

[spidermike007]

I wonder if the Bangkok Post or the Nation have done serious investigative pieces on this fiasco yet? Yes, it is international news. And they seem to be the only ones talking about this bumbling house of fools, called the police force. At this point, it does not appear to be an issue of incompetence, but rather an issue of the force being compromised by a headman who is bigger, and seemingly more powerful and richer than either the police or the army. it does appear that they knew who the perpetrator was from the beginning, but realized he was an untouchable. Does the phrase above the law come to mind? It is incumbent on Prayuth to take this into his own hands now. Even if it means using the military police, and trying the rich punk in a military court, to avoid the monkey courts.

[RedCardinal]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

Why discard said condom?

If it was premeditated, the perpetrator would simply take the condom with him.

Besides, according to earlier reports, DNA was found in semen in female victim.

I've no idea why someone might leave one condom behind, and I was merely suggesting a possible reason for the discovered condom to contain no internal DNA. It's possible the perpetrator didn't mean to leave this behind - perhaps it fell off the inner condom after the fact and he only realised later after leaving the scene. Who knows.

The point is the police should be thinking about why there would be no DNA inside this particular condom. I find it strange that they cant come up with some possible reasons, and posted my suggestion above. Merely a guess.

Earlier reports did say that DNA from 2 individuals was found on the victim, but that doesn't mean there weren't more than 2 perps. There could have been a third or more perps who were cool headed enough to wear condoms, and the discovery of this condom with the victims DNA on outside may support this theory.

Regardless, of the details, everything about this murder is just so desperately sad. I really hope they catch the people behind this.

[lavender19]

T.I.T

Totally Incompetent Thailand. Strikes again.

The hub for incompetence

[khunpa]

Nothing has changed here has it?

No sense of inadequacy from the police so they will continue their corrupt ways.

No initiative response really from Prayuth and his government.

The lack of progress in this case rather mirrors Thailand. Going backwards!

There really isn't any intention of moving this place forwards Is there?

I am so sad for Thailand could be so, so much better than it is or is looking like it will be for my kids. So sad!

Don't be sad ...... just make sure you make lots of money and your kids will be fine here. They will even be able to commit lots of crimes and be okay. Just remember to make money!

Edited September 26, 2014 by khunpa

[Baerboxer]

This article is full of Thainess, I.e trying to shift the focus and blame away and not accept that this stinks of corruption.

You are right. No such thing as accepting responsibility or accountability. Simply blame somebody else, even if it requires a statement based on zero logic.

The police seem to waste an awful lot of time trying to find a politically acceptable solution that is acceptable to all interested stakeholders. Nothing to do with justice and bringing the real culprits to account. All to do with finding the "best solution for all, whatever that may mean". The core of Thainess.

[Thai at Heart]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

Why discard said condom?

If it was premeditated, the perpetrator would simply take the condom with him.

Besides, according to earlier reports, DNA was found in semen in female victim.

I've no idea why someone might leave one condom behind, and I was merely suggesting a possible reason for the discovered condom to contain no internal DNA. It's possible the perpetrator didn't mean to leave this behind - perhaps it fell off the inner condom after the fact and he only realised later after leaving the scene. Who knows.

The point is the police should be thinking about why there would be no DNA inside this particular condom. I find it strange that they cant come up with some possible reasons, and posted my suggestion above. Merely a guess.

Earlier reports did say that DNA from 2 individuals was found on the victim, but that doesn't mean there weren't more than 2 perps. There could have been a third or more perps who were cool headed enough to wear condoms, and the discovery of this condom with the victims DNA on outside may support this theory.

Regardless, of the details, everything about this murder is just so desperately sad. I really hope they catch the people behind this.

It is patently obvious they are looking for a gang or.group of people. 2 or more. Hence why its very unlikely to be foreigners. Murderers and rapists don't just make a tourist fraternity by luck.

[EnglishJohn]

If Chalerm was still in charge, it would have been very publicly pinned on a couple of Asian stooges who confessed all within hours of their arrest.

Seems like the new Junta and their attempts to do things properly has come as a bit of a shock ....

I never thought I would support military rule over an elected government - but yet again, Thailand has amazed me.

[Chutney]

Reading that new information about the condom and DNA has made me physically gag. It pulls together some other loose ends and to me is all too blindingly obvious what it means. One of the most hideous aspects of this in many ways has been the disrespect of the female victim even in death. I don't know how to write this without graphics.

There has been always this suggestion that the two victims had or were having or going to have sex yet what is known about them does not support that.

It always looked as if there was an attempt to stage that scene: David undressed yet Hannah not but with clothing disarranged.

Vile release of graphic information said the female victim was brutalised vaginally 'after' death. Suggestions that there was an aspect of necraphilia but that also doesn't sit well. Rape is more about power and cruelty than sex. Rapists want their victims to know what is happening. Hannah was alive when she was raped then her body abused after being killed.

The condom on a hoe handle was very likely used to attempt to make this look like the victims had sex on the beach. Perhaps initially there was going to be some aspect of that which supported the cover up. Certainly the Thai police and locals have gone on and on about it but it never made sense.

Even the foul notice put up in that rotten bar AC recently is still trying to reinforce this story that they left that bar together to have 'sex on the beach'. Why that red herring? What really happened that is so important to draw attention away from?

[Orac]

SPECIAL REPORT

Snip

Also, before local police officers arrived at the crime scene at dawn on September 15, many locals had already messed up the evidence by moving the two murder weapons - a hoe and a wooden stick - and thereby affecting the fingerprints.

Snip

-- The Nation 2014-09-26

This is also an odd bit of info i had not seen before. I seem to recall there been a delay in them finding the second weapon which suggests the 'locals' had deliberately sabotaged the crime scene.

[Number 3]

SPECIAL REPORT

Snip

Also, before local police officers arrived at the crime scene at dawn on September 15, many locals had already messed up the evidence by moving the two murder weapons - a hoe and a wooden stick - and thereby affecting the fingerprints.

Snip

-- The Nation 2014-09-26

This is also an odd bit of info i had not seen before. I seem to recall there been a delay in them finding the second weapon which suggests the 'locals' had deliberately sabotaged the crime scene.

All this to try and cover up their deliberate mishandling.

Now it s the many locals that got in their way. Or was it the social media ? I understand that local family had sent people in WAY before police arrived and were in very early morning talks. About what exactly - the mind boggles.

But being invited to inspect the crime scene beside officers ensured that any evidence that was left behind was then destroyed too. Well orchestrated. No bungling involved here.

Where is the army again did you say ?

[khunpa]

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

A simple possibility is that the wearer wore 2 condoms, discarding only the outer one. It would be a very clever way to protect yourself, and may also indicate that at least one of the attackers was very cool headed when they perpetrated this horrible crime (perhaps older/wiser/experienced). Might also be someone who is familiar with criminal investigations and DNA evidence collection/processing.

Just a thought.

These attackers are animals. They predate. They attack. They flee. They hide.

You have not described the action of an attacker at all here but the actions of a criminal mastermind. Wrong tree mate. Ask anyone in the know on samui phang na or koh tao......

Sorry, but you are wrong... They attack, they rape and they kill.... Then they PAY! No need to hide.

[Thai at Heart]

I think it goes without saying, that men like this don't just randomly get up rape and abuse a woman.

These men have done this before. Someone knows who they are. No doubt.

[Alwyn]

"Also, before local police officers arrived at the crime scene at dawn on September 15, many locals had already messed up the evidence by moving the two murder weapons - a hoe and a wooden stick - and thereby affecting the fingerprints" "Oh sorry Mr policeman, the reason my finger prints are on the murder weapons isn't because I killed them, I just moved the weapons to make sure the place was tidy"...... "It wasn't me, I was in BKK and you know it's true because there's a photo of my dad holding a piece of paper, so no need to DNA test me. Thank you"... So much for the PM's anti-corruption nonsense then.