Special report: Investigation into Koh Tao murders seriously flawed

[dealthedice]

Jonathan Head reporting DNA samples sent to BKK but they are "struggling to fund analysis on all samples". How about using the million THB the headman put up?

And not the only thing they're struggling with.

Also reported this.

Police KohTao say have taken DNA frm 179 ppl - + 30 who knew victims. .... so thats a lot less than previously claimed.

All DNA samples from KohTao sent to Bangkok. Costs B5,000 to analyse each. So tests still incomplete.

didnt they say they were using Singapore ? or would it now seem BKK can in fact analyse or do they just mean BKK has to get its bill in first then when thats done .. move it off to Singapore for better testing...

In which case the fast returned DNA tests clearing people within 24 hrs when its had to get from KT to either location if not both seems even more ridiculous

It will cost to Thailand (tourism) a lot more than that, if the case remains unsolved.

[Tokay]

Hub of flawed investigations.

[Thai at Heart]

They think that them talking about 5k per test makes it show how dedicated they are being to the case.

Sometimes Thais just get it wrong.

[MJP]

They think that them talking about 5k per test makes it show how dedicated they are being to the case.

Sometimes Thais just get it wrong.

It's about the right cost, perhaps a little expensive depending on the turnaround time.

2006 report I linked above reckons the cost per test to the lab was running around 2000 Baht.

[phuketandsee]

Interesting article from the Economist in 2008:

"In Thailand's most sensational crimes, the prime suspects are often the police".

http://www.economist.com/node/11058580

[Thai at Heart]

They think that them talking about 5k per test makes it show how dedicated they are being to the case.

Sometimes Thais just get it wrong.

It's about the right cost, perhaps a little expensive depending on the turnaround time.

2006 report I linked above reckons the cost per test to the lab was running around 2000 Baht.

If they want to.solve the case, the cost is rather irrelevant.

[MJP]

They think that them talking about 5k per test makes it show how dedicated they are being to the case.

Sometimes Thais just get it wrong.

It's about the right cost, perhaps a little expensive depending on the turnaround time.

2006 report I linked above reckons the cost per test to the lab was running around 2000 Baht.

If they want to.solve the case, the cost is rather irrelevant.

Of course it's irrelevant. I was just pointing out that the cost per test is not out of the ballpark.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a site containing photos from the crime scene has been removed as well as the replies. That was really sick.

[AGareth2]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue hero.

why the foreigner?

[greenchair]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

[Plutojames88]

There is nothing left to say ....

It's clear theses people have utter disregard to civilised norms and this case will go unsolved.

I urge those of you that care to quietly do your best to make a pact with your conscience when booking a holiday.

Don't let them win be balanced and honourable in your choices.

Send a message by the many.

By actually changing where you go.

If this is unsatisfactory to you take that next step .

Think of the horror this young woman endured.

Keep your dignity and boycott

[lucaswallachia]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

Sean originally said he was supposed to have meet up with David but fell asleep.

[AGareth2]

if asleep how come the blood?

[Number 3]

This is not only like a punch in the face of the poor parents of this unfortunate couple, but a punch in the face of international justice! Thailand's police force as a whole should be ashamed of themselves. I have no sympathy anymore for this bunch of morons. A uniform doesn't make a person a good or trustworthly person, heart and soul does, but it seems the main requirement to get into Thailand's police force is the very absence of heart and soul... If I woud be Hannah's or David's father, I would get in touch with Sean, then spend my last dime on the best undercover investigator I can get, send him to Koh Tao, find out who did it and then pay a Nakhon hitman to pull the plug on both thugs and send me photos. Anyone who trusts in "justice being served" here in Thailand could also start writing letters to Santa Claus now, because the reality level is about similar... I am upset and disgusted and feel so utterly sorry for the parents. Such a shame!

If I woud be Hannah's or David's father, I would get in touch with Sean, then spend my last dime on the best undercover investigator I can get, send him to Koh Tao, find out who did it ....

If 500'000THB from the "Orient Thai" owners, an other 200'000THB from the police donations

and 1 MillionTHB from Mr. Warot's didn't help to loosen someones tongue (until now), do you

honestly think, an outsider would find out anything on such a small island. I think he would be

lucky not to get killed himself.

As horrible as it might sound, I think Hannah's and David's family will need to learn to come to

terms that the killers might never be found and carry on with their lives. Although I must say,

if such a tragedy would hit my family, I could not see a reason for anything anymore, I probably

die from a heart attack.

Still, let's hope, eventually and if it takes years to wait, someone will talk.

(hmmm, just wonder, is there any "use by date" on those rewards?

An investigative journalist team and family representatives heading down there in the next couple of days is the only thing that will keep breath in this cases' sails. Seeing family and having to see them every day would be very disturbing to everyone on that island. I would request both families to consider sending someone to the island if they feel that justice and fingering these killers will be important to them down the road. Right now they are consumed in grief but later on they will want justice and it will be too late. Not in the UK would it be, but here I give it another couple of days and I would say it's largely done and dusted. Dramedy curtain call.

[SteveFong]

I think it best to keep this fresh with the journalists on twitter,

Sean McAnna is now a mystery.

I hope he wen tot the authorities wherever he went

[Plutojames88]

There was definitive advice early on that there was CCTV footage of a female running, that police had under wraps. Do you know if this has seen the light of day yet ? Or if it even exists? It was purported it was possibly hannah running ..

Yes I heard on twitter it existed and was taken and gone .

And the Thais who had it recorded now denying it existed.

It's all a bit too much .

Horrible .

[Orac]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

So, according to your theory, Sean was smart enough to use a condom and remove his own DNA from the inside of it but then goes off covered in the victims blood to find someone to clean it off for him - a someone who did not come forward once the murders were discovered?

[greenchair]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

Sean originally said he was supposed to have meet up with David but fell asleep.

Yes, and then his story changed and suddenly he was at the bar being threatened. And then he has acknowledged that he was the guitar player near the crime. His story doesn't make sense.

So he fell asleep and did not meet his friend. Woke up about 3 o'clock in the morning ,went down to the beach to play guitar. Around the time of the rape, went to the bar. The two guys come to threaten to frame him for a rape that had just happened. That he says he knew nothing about and was not there.

No. There is something wrong here.

[Orac]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

Sean originally said he was supposed to have meet up with David but fell asleep.

Yes, and then his story changed and suddenly he was at the bar being threatened. And then he has acknowledged that he was the guitar player near the crime. His story doesn't make sense.

So he fell asleep and did not meet his friend. Woke up about 3 o'clock in the morning ,went down to the beach to play guitar. Around the time of the rape, went to the bar. The two guys come to threaten to frame him for a rape that had just happened. That he says he knew nothing about and was not there.

No. There is something wrong here.

Except the incident where he was threatened in the bar happened several days after the murder.

[greenchair]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

So, according to your theory, Sean was smart enough to use a condom and remove his own DNA from the inside of it but then goes off covered in the victims blood to find someone to clean it off for him - a someone who did not come forward once the murders were discovered?

Perhaps he used two condoms one inside the other ,or he was just starting when the guy hit her. Making him run off in a hurry. Perhaps he did not know there was a bit of splatter on his face. Which is why the girl wiped it off for him. Perhaps he did not have a mirror in a bar.

[JoeLing]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

Not a very bright comment either is it? First of all,

"He was seen near the scene playing his guitar".

No one saw him near the scene. People say they saw three man at the

beach singing songs and playing guitar but I haven't read anywhere that

the guitar player was indeed Sean.

Now I am surprised how little "sex education" some of the TV members

have, Anyone thinking wearing two condoms would be safer, either think

again or apply for a job by the BIB.

Using two condoms at the same time is actually a real bad idea as it creates

an excess amount of additional friction and thus increases the chance that

one or both condoms will break.

[SteveFong]

I believe 3 men 2 Thai and 1 foreigner were attacking Hannah and David went to save her. He is atrue

hero.

Is the foreigner Sean?

I dont know but. He did say he was supposed to meet David,but did not. But he was accosted at the bar after the crime. It's obvious he was very near at the time of crime. In his story . He was just quietly sitting in the bar at 4 0clock in the morning and two of bar people casually walked inand threatened to stitch him up for acrime that was committed a little bit beforehand. The bar owner says he was covered in blood splatter , Like we got as much on you as you have on us. He was seennear the scene playing his guitar. His story does not add up. The use of a condomto hide dna is a foreigner thing and he may have used two condoms which is why no sperm was found at the scene. Thai are not bright enough to plan that. Must be aforeiger

Not a very bright comment either is it? First of all,

"He was seen near the scene playing his guitar".

No one saw him near the scene. People say they saw three man at the

beach singing songs and playing guitar but I haven't read anywhere that

the guitar player was indeed Sean.

Now I am surprised how little "sex education" some of the TV members

have, Anyone thinking wearing two condoms would be safer, either think

again or apply for a job by the BIB.

Using two condoms at the same time is actually a real bad idea as it creates

an excess amount of additional friction and thus increases the chance that

one or both condoms will break.

I have never in my life met anyone who ever thought of trying to put a second condom on,

Western people would wear a condom to practice safe sex

a rapist that wears a condom?

never heard a rape victime ever say, and yes, he stopped to put on the condom, and, I just waited

[catinthehat]

"...investigation personnel lost time getting to the far flung island." <deleted> From BKK by plane and boat what a 3 or 4 hrs of hours?

Given the important nature of this event (although only in the eyes of foreigners) it seems now that there is no LZ or large enough are to land a helicopter. I am sure that the RTP could arrange that with their counterparts in the army.

I remember in the news that only once the event became present in the global news that's when higher ranking officers were inclined to travel there.

It's all about face, and the foreigners wallets. The two main concerns.

[apalink_thailand]

So...who runs the local drug cartels supplying the various island parties? Seems to me that someone of that stature would have the power and cash to protect themselves. I cannot believe that some local Kamnan has that kind of money and power unless he has involvement in the trade too. Follow the money. Just speculation of course.

[retarius]

Well I'm shocked! I must say that I thought the investigation would show that it was an immaculate investigation only marred by not finding the killers. Criticism of the police is unfair.

[SteveFong]

With the new condom revelation,

and the zero likelihood any rapist killer with a mafia angle would use a condom on anyone, much less a pretty blonde,

my new suspicion is, Miller and the girl were getting started,

he got hit from behind with the iron bar and then staggered, tried to fight, but was quickly drowned,

that takes two guys,

the third subdues the girl with the hoe,

then they go to town

This is a highly likely scenario but what doesn't make sense is the cigarette butt with Hannah's lipstick and DNA matching that taken from semen. Unless this evidence has been falsified to make it seem that Hannah knew her attackers?

I am not sure if you, or I has this aspect correct

Where was it ever stated that Hannah's lipstick on the cigarrette?

I was under the impression that the shared cigarette was the two attackers, which matched Hannah's DNA

I dont recall where it was stated Hannah was smoking with them

feel free to correct

[MikeENZ]

So...who runs the local drug cartels supplying the various island parties? Seems to me that someone of that stature would have the power and cash to protect themselves. I cannot believe that some local Kamnan has that kind of money and power unless he has involvement in the trade too. Follow the money. Just speculation of course.

Police of course. It costs a lot of Baht to become the police officer in charge of tourist destination.

Though thats over on KP... Heck you can smell the weed growing as you go over the hill and around the corner from the lookout/temple thats being rebuilt on the hill down to haad rin if the air is still.

[apalink_thailand]

So...who runs the local drug cartels supplying the various island parties? Seems to me that someone of that stature would have the power and cash to protect themselves. I cannot believe that some local Kamnan has that kind of money and power unless he has involvement in the trade too. Follow the money. Just speculation of course.

Police of course. It costs a lot of Baht to become the police officer in charge of tourist destination.

Though thats over on KP... Heck you can smell the weed growing as you go over the hill and around the corner from the lookout/temple thats being rebuilt on the hill down to haad rin if the air is still.

Interesting indeed.

[ScubaPhuket]

Everyone knows the police is totally incapable and corrupt.

How many of the mysterious tourists deaths on Thai Islands during the last years got solved?

Hope this case is an exception, but probably not.

If Thai people would be murdered this way, there wouldn't even be an investigation of this kind.

Thai people suffer even more from the incompetence of the police.

What is most important is that the parents and family are not given false hope.

I see the police making declarations about how it will take another 2 days, while in reality they've messed up the whole case and have no idea of where to look.

The family should be aware of how Thai police works or doesn't work.

That will protect them from disappointments later on.

Why do people keep saying this?

They haven't messed it up at all. It's deliberate, they know exactly where to look & are doing a very bad cover-up job.

[MJP]

The confessions are being reported in the UK press. Reading the comments to the articles no one believes any of it. DM article titled 'This is how we killed them': Chilling moment two Burmese barmen showed how they beat British pair to death on Thai beach after confessing to rape and murder following DNA match . . . top rated comment . . .

I seriously hope the British Government is overseeing this investigation. I still think there's a strong possibility of this being a staged confession to protect the Thai tourism industry.

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