Retry of Linux in the office.

[h90]

After a year or two out trial with Linux failed, I would like to try it again.

Which distribution?

Task:

Computer in the office

No need for sound or games

Have simple excel lists that need to be edited and some word documents (documents were made with Office 2010, but no special things just lists with simple calculations).

Documents are shared by a Win7 computer.

printed on a brother network printer.

Some file names are in Thai, but that can be changed if really necessary

Ubuntu?

Any chance that it will be successful?

[Morakot]

Any chance that it will be successful?

Yes, why not..

Any mainstream distro and you're ready to go.

Use LibreOffice. Ubuntu or Linux Mint should be straight forward for your purpose.

[RichCor]

After a year or two out trial with Linux failed, I would like to try it again.

OK, i'll bite. Why did it fail last time?

...and, what does "after a year or two out [our?] trial with Linux failed" mean? Two years ago, two year tryout?

I use apple devices (Unix-based), android devices (Linux-based) and... well, devices that aren't Windows that seem to get the job done. But then, I still have a Windows OS Laptop because that's what I'm in the habit of using for my go-to place for getting things done. That's where the overpriced published applications are. But then, I'm an idiot.

Edited October 21, 2014 by RichCor

[h90]

After a year or two out trial with Linux failed, I would like to try it again.

OK, i'll bite. Why did it fail last time?

...and, what does "after a year or two out [our?] trial with Linux failed" mean? Two years ago, two year tryout?

I use apple devices (Unix-based), android devices (Linux-based) and... well, devices that aren't Windows that seem to get the job done. But then, I still have a Windows OS Laptop because that's what I'm in the habit of using for my go-to place for getting things done. That's where the overpriced published applications are. But then, I'm an idiot.

Well the last trial was under different conditions: I tried it on my computer first.

Problems: after an automatic update there was no sound anymore. The only fix I found on the internet had to be applied every time again after reboot. No issue here as the office computer don't have sound. But it scared me a bit.

The killer was the poor quality driver from Brother for the printer. Some different printer problems but the killer was. It was never possible to print envelopes correctly. Now we have different printer (but still Brother) and we don't print envelopes anymore.

Hopefully Ubuntu is also a bit further developed. My main concern is the word/excel documents. If the format will be OK or if everything will be messed up. My other concern is, if it is simple enough for my staff who are used to Windows, but even there just able to click around on the desktop without deeper understanding what they do.....

[Morakot]

You might like to check this database, if you need a better driver for your printer.

https://www.openprinting.org/printers

Edited October 21, 2014 by Morakot

[RichCor]

I think I may have just crashed ThaiVisa.

I wanted to see how long you've been playing around with Linux, and you my friend turn out to be older than dirt when it comes to playing with Linux. So much so that when I pulled up all Linux threads you've contributed to ...it crashed the system. before 2005, awesome!

[h90]

yes it was crashed...couldn't reload......

One of my long term thoughts for Linux is also that I have 3 CNC machines which have software that runs only on WinXP (or earlier). Changing them to Linux and run WinXP in a virtual machine might be necessary at some point.

Currently they are connected to the Internet (router firewall, but no non job activity permitted on this computers) without any problems and all has backups. But at some point the mainboards (I have 2 unused on stock) will fail and I have to find different solutions. The CNCs will run another 10 years.

[h90]

Another thing is: I run two Linux server for webpages, they run for years, don't need any attention doing their job. Both software and hardware is very old. But they don't crash. Log in shows me a last login 2 years ago and time running without reboot 4 years.

That is somehow impressive. That is one reason that I want to try again in the office.....

[manarak]

Another thing is: I run two Linux server for webpages, they run for years, don't need any attention doing their job. Both software and hardware is very old. But they don't crash. Log in shows me a last login 2 years ago and time running without reboot 4 years.

That is somehow impressive. That is one reason that I want to try again in the office.....

without updates for so long, you are lucky you didn't get hacked, unless they run on an intranet only.

for the needs you described, linux should be OK, though don't expect to be able to push excel sheets back and forth in full compatibility, unless you buy MS Office for linux, 555.

A better option would be to use LibreOffice on both Linux and Windows.

[RichCor]

Do any of your CNC controllers require a hardware security dongle on a PC interface port, or can you just upload a G-code or CAD data from any source?

I've really am fond of Oracle VM VirtualBox.

I play with about 8 guest OS, versions of Android, Chromium, Windows 10 preview, and mostly Debian/Ubuntu-based distros.

Found I really dislike 'Unity' so mostly explore the other desktops.

And if you have multiple systems needing to print, a Network Interfaced Printer is the way to go.

I probably could go cold-turkey and stop relying on a Microsoft environment and be at home on a Linux distro. Most of the stuff I do these days is browser-based. Still need to learn a graphics editor -- I'm way too reliant on adobe PhotoShop.

[phil2]

After a year or two out trial with Linux failed, I would like to try it again.

OK, i'll bite. Why did it fail last time?

...and, what does "after a year or two out [our?] trial with Linux failed" mean? Two years ago, two year tryout?

I use apple devices (Unix-based), android devices (Linux-based) and... well, devices that aren't Windows that seem to get the job done. But then, I still have a Windows OS Laptop because that's what I'm in the habit of using for my go-to place for getting things done. That's where the overpriced published applications are. But then, I'm an idiot.

Well the last trial was under different conditions: I tried it on my computer first.

Problems: after an automatic update there was no sound anymore. The only fix I found on the internet had to be applied every time again after reboot. No issue here as the office computer don't have sound. But it scared me a bit.

The killer was the poor quality driver from Brother for the printer. Some different printer problems but the killer was. It was never possible to print envelopes correctly. Now we have different printer (but still Brother) and we don't print envelopes anymore.

Hopefully Ubuntu is also a bit further developed. My main concern is the word/excel documents. If the format will be OK or if everything will be messed up. My other concern is, if it is simple enough for my staff who are used to Windows, but even there just able to click around on the desktop without deeper understanding what they do.....

LibreOffice is good, but if you don't mind doing it online, you could always use Google Docs.

[Gumballl]

Another thing is: I run two Linux server for webpages, they run for years, don't need any attention doing their job. Both software and hardware is very old. But they don't crash. Log in shows me a last login 2 years ago and time running without reboot 4 years.

That is somehow impressive. That is one reason that I want to try again in the office.....

No reboot in 4 years? Wow! That means you haven't updated the kernel, or some other critical s/w package.

Would you mind if I try to hack your system? It would be an interesting exercise. My brother is currently studying cyber-security, and it would be awesome to learn some tricks of the trade. Please PM me if you are interested.

[h90]

Another thing is: I run two Linux server for webpages, they run for years, don't need any attention doing their job. Both software and hardware is very old. But they don't crash. Log in shows me a last login 2 years ago and time running without reboot 4 years.

That is somehow impressive. That is one reason that I want to try again in the office.....

without updates for so long, you are lucky you didn't get hacked, unless they run on an intranet only.

for the needs you described, linux should be OK, though don't expect to be able to push excel sheets back and forth in full compatibility, unless you buy MS Office for linux, 555.

A better option would be to use LibreOffice on both Linux and Windows.

Already so many stupid things happen with Excel. I worry what happens if I change software. But on the other hand if they don't know excel well, it wouldn't matter as much if they don't know LibreOffice.

I'll give it a try.

LibreOffice Windows and Linux are 100 % compatible to each other, or?

[h90]

After a year or two out trial with Linux failed, I would like to try it again.

OK, i'll bite. Why did it fail last time?

...and, what does "after a year or two out [our?] trial with Linux failed" mean? Two years ago, two year tryout?

I use apple devices (Unix-based), android devices (Linux-based) and... well, devices that aren't Windows that seem to get the job done. But then, I still have a Windows OS Laptop because that's what I'm in the habit of using for my go-to place for getting things done. That's where the overpriced published applications are. But then, I'm an idiot.

Well the last trial was under different conditions: I tried it on my computer first.

Problems: after an automatic update there was no sound anymore. The only fix I found on the internet had to be applied every time again after reboot. No issue here as the office computer don't have sound. But it scared me a bit.

The killer was the poor quality driver from Brother for the printer. Some different printer problems but the killer was. It was never possible to print envelopes correctly. Now we have different printer (but still Brother) and we don't print envelopes anymore.

Hopefully Ubuntu is also a bit further developed. My main concern is the word/excel documents. If the format will be OK or if everything will be messed up. My other concern is, if it is simple enough for my staff who are used to Windows, but even there just able to click around on the desktop without deeper understanding what they do.....

LibreOffice is good, but if you don't mind doing it online, you could always use Google Docs.

No online is no option for us. Beside that I wouldn't give our company documents outside the internet isn't perfect. Often enough there are a few, up to 15 seconds with the internet not working and often a lot lost packages (true internet) that would make a productive work impossible.

[h90]

Do any of your CNC controllers require a hardware security dongle on a PC interface port, or can you just upload a G-code or CAD data from any source?

I've really am fond of Oracle VM VirtualBox.

I play with about 8 guest OS, versions of Android, Chromium, Windows 10 preview, and mostly Debian/Ubuntu-based distros.

Found I really dislike 'Unity' so mostly explore the other desktops.

And if you have multiple systems needing to print, a Network Interfaced Printer is the way to go.

I probably could go cold-turkey and stop relying on a Microsoft environment and be at home on a Linux distro. Most of the stuff I do these days is browser-based. Still need to learn a graphics editor -- I'm way too reliant on adobe PhotoShop.

yes it needs a hardware dongle on parallel port and a serial connection.

I already tried VM VirtualBox on my Windows7 machine. I tried that years ago and it ended always with Blue Screen of the Windows7 (yes the host system). But tried it again a year later and now it works (don't know if Win7 or Oracle repaired things).

The hardware dongle is now simulated inside the WinXP virtual machine. (simulating the Hardware Dongle is anyway necessary on motherboards without parallel port) I didn't try upload to the CNC (as I tried it on my Desktop which is far away from the CNCs) but don't expect that accessing the parallel port is problem.

I just reject, we have 2 motherboards, 1 CPU, 2 sets of RAM on stock. So I think we can continue with WinXP for a couple years. Maybe disconnect the computer from Internet.

[manarak]

Another thing is: I run two Linux server for webpages, they run for years, don't need any attention doing their job. Both software and hardware is very old. But they don't crash. Log in shows me a last login 2 years ago and time running without reboot 4 years.

That is somehow impressive. That is one reason that I want to try again in the office.....

without updates for so long, you are lucky you didn't get hacked, unless they run on an intranet only.

for the needs you described, linux should be OK, though don't expect to be able to push excel sheets back and forth in full compatibility, unless you buy MS Office for linux, 555.

A better option would be to use LibreOffice on both Linux and Windows.

Already so many stupid things happen with Excel. I worry what happens if I change software. But on the other hand if they don't know excel well, it wouldn't matter as much if they don't know LibreOffice.

I'll give it a try.

LibreOffice Windows and Linux are 100 % compatible to each other, or?

Try using LibreOffice on all computers, use the same version and files should be 100% compatible between Windows and Linux versions.

It's the sensible thing to do.

[keeniau96]

I have about same setup you are talking about, including Brother HL-2130 laser printer (recognized immediately in Linux Mint, also in Win7, bit of hassle in OSX 10.9; 4 computers total. Mint is my favorite, the auto updates are great. Libre Office for your needs should be more than adequate. Setting up a network can be a bit touchy, mostly because of the Win7 network naming. If you are in Phuket come by the computer group meeting on Sunday mornings.

[steve187]

as a fairly new Linux user i have just upgraded to zorin 9, and i am loving it so easy to use with a nice clean desktop.

[Paul944]

If you are familiar with rpm and yum, Centos would be a reasonable choice for the office. Else Ubuntu or Mint. Linux distributions with a small user base are a bit risky with long term usage.

Auto update of packages is not advisable because this can break things at the moment no one with Linux knowledge is around. However running an update once a while (every 2 or 3 months) is advisable if the systems are connected to an external network.

Libre office works fine but Microsoft Office is still easier to use. You can create .doc, .docx, .xsl files with libre office but the layout can be different while reading them with Microsoft office. Something to consider if you create documents/contracts and email them to customers. Solution is to email only pdf files.

Installing and configuring Linux will require more work compared with Windows. You probably have to customize the initial desktop environment, setup network shares (maybe automounter with nfs) and define printers.

I wonder if you can justify moving to Linux with a real business case. My justification to use Linux at home is, I like it

[Richard-BKK]

In our office we also run Linux, our main Linux distribution is Fedora – but we have some Ubuntu systems. For some of the users that need to run specific MS-Windows software we use VMWare Workstation which work best for us, also some users who need 100% compatibility with MS Office run MS Office with the help of Wine.

Wine is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on computers running Linux. With the current version 1.7.28 / 1.7.29 you can run a good amount of MS Windows software with the help of Wine.

For drivers for your Brother printer, I can say that Brother is one of the printer manufacturers that take the Linux market serious – Brother has for most printers, multi-function-machines, scanners, and faxes Linux drivers available, see http://support.brother.com/g/s/id/linux/en/index.html?c=us_ot〈=en&comple=on&redirect=on

[h90]

thanks everyone!

A lot good ideas to try.

[innerspace]

From what you said sounds like you know the answers.

Hardware compatibility, software compatability and user experience are the hurdles.

Hardware is improving, printer sounds like it will work now and you have simulated a test for your cnc.

Software, cnc sounds under control. MS office is major issue, libre works well but is not 100%, some government docs just dont work. Nothing virtualbox or a dedicated win machine cant fix.

Users may complain but will soon learn with the right training and support.

The end decision is for you to make with all the facts, if you have crucial dependancies then stick with what you have. If you have nix alternatives for everything that are just as productive then go for it.

I am on the road towards a linux dominated office, now have 50% on linux compared to 2% a few months back. But I have switched from 40 employees to solo with 1 linux and 1 photoshop pc!

[crabdog]

Sounds like a good idea. Mint or Ubuntu are good options simply because they have a very large user / knowledge base. I've never had any problems using my printer with Linux but it's a HP.

My biggest concern would be compatability with Libre Office spreadsheets and documents. If they are only used internally then it would not be a problem at all (assuming the other computers in the office are on Linux) but if you need to send office documents externally to other businesses/partners then it could be an issue.

I've run into trouble before myself by making spreadsheets in Libre Office then trying to print them from Microsoft Office on another computer. Things would go wrong such as a single page document suddenly becoming 2 pages because of formatting differences and the same thing can happen with Word documents, particularly if there are images or tables involved.

[dave_boo]

Sounds like a good idea. Mint or Ubuntu are good options simply because they have a very large user / knowledge base. I've never had any problems using my printer with Linux but it's a HP.

My biggest concern would be compatability with Libre Office spreadsheets and documents. If they are only used internally then it would not be a problem at all (assuming the other computers in the office are on Linux) but if you need to send office documents externally to other businesses/partners then it could be an issue.

I've run into trouble before myself by making spreadsheets in Libre Office then trying to print them from Microsoft Office on another computer. Things would go wrong such as a single page document suddenly becoming 2 pages because of formatting differences and the same thing can happen with Word documents, particularly if there are images or tables involved.

I always export the documents that need to be portable as pdf using LibreOffice. Can even click the "Embed OpenDocument file" so that it can be edited at a later date.