Police coy over new probe into Koh Tao murders

[boomerangutang]

There seems to be a crucial failing in the the investigation process here. I can only comment on the way it is carried out in the UK, with any case that needs investigating, from a burglary to a murder then its handed over to the detectives who have specialized training. The local beat bobby has no say and is not even privy to the information gathered in the investigation. Its only with professionals carrying out the work that complex cases get solved.

Not sure about Thailand but it appears that the police in general are the investigators with no specialized units for detective work? If this is true then of course the result is a sham, let alone all the other factors involved with this case.

Right on the mark. It's the same in my country, USA. I wrote nearly the same words in a letter to the major Eng.Lang newspaper. Cops are as well-trained and adept for doing a professional and thorough investigation of a complicated crime scene, as burger flipper is to arrange all the facets of a state dinner with royalty.

reason for edit: 14 paragraphs of google gogglygook showed up and had to be deleted.

Edited November 7, 2014 by boomerangutang

[JLCrab]

So of the persons mentioned in Post #369 not one of those categories of persons other than the criminals themselves would have any information that would be admissible in a US court of law unless the criminals themselves specifically told such persons that they did it and even that would be questionable.

[thailandchilli]

So of the persons mentioned in Post #369 not one of those categories of persons other than the criminals themselves would have any information that would be admissible in a US court of law unless the criminals themselves specifically told such persons that they did it and even that would be questionable.

[heyexile]

Boomeratung

Those who really know comprise one or more of the following categories:

>>> the criminals themselves. They're not talking for obvious reasons.
>>> Some people close to the criminals. They're not talking, either because they want to shield their buddies, are sworn to secrecy, or are threatened with bodily harm if they talk.
>>> There are likely others who know what happened. They're not talking because they don't want (and don't want their family members) to be badly harmed or killed.
>>> Some of the above may have been paid big money to stay quiet. The headman's family is rich.
>>> Besides the fact that family members don't rat on fellow family members, cops don't rat on fellow cops.

None of the things mentioned above are unusual in Thailand.

The reason this case is a game-changer for Thailand: In the future, Thai officials won't be so quick to round up scapegoats. They're being burned by the rapt attention of tens of thousands of Thais and farang online. It's a new reality which Thai officials weren't fully aware of before this Ko Tao crime. Another thing Thai officials should learn from this: How to improve their crime investigative skills. Even at this late stage of the investigation, I (who am not a trained crime investigator) could give them several basic pointers on how to improve their skills. I boasteth not.

Heyexile

I agree this could be a `game changer` but for wider reasons. This is not just about one locally influential family but about their influence at the highest levels via PDRC to the venerable Suthep.

The good general PM as Supreme Commander Police Dept, and his hand-picked top cop, the good Police Commissioner General Somyot have publicly pronounced on a complete and perfect investigation.

They cant back down from that position.

For the regime the only way out may be time stalling, more contradictions and misinformation, no trial and hope the world will forget the case. They may underestimate the "idiots who follow social media".

http://nationwidemultimedia.com/opinion/Koh-Tao-case-a-time-bomb-for-Thailand-reputation-30245085-html.

EDIT supposed to be reply to Boomeratung #369. Apologies exceeded quoted text blocks. Also edit link.

Edited November 7, 2014 by heyexile

[JLCrab]

... and I am still looking at the possibility that -- in cinematic terms -- "the mess boys ate the strawberries" as in The Caine Mutiny

[elektrified]

So of the persons mentioned in Post #369 not one of those categories of persons other than the criminals themselves would have any information that would be admissible in a US court of law unless the criminals themselves specifically told such persons that they did it and even that would be questionable.

I believe you are referring to "hearsay" and if so, you would be correct.

[thailandchilli]

First words from David Cameron since the UK police returned

"Prime Minister admits he is powerless to interfere in Thai judicial system to get justice for murdered Hannah Witheridge"

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/prime_minister_admits_he_is_powerless_to_interfere_in_thai_judicial_system_to_get_justice_for_murdered_hannah_witheridge_1_3837209

[elektrified]

First words from David Cameron since the UK police returned

"Prime Minister admits he is powerless to interfere in Thai judicial system to get justice for murdered Hannah Witheridge"

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/prime_minister_admits_he_is_powerless_to_interfere_in_thai_judicial_system_to_get_justice_for_murdered_hannah_witheridge_1_3837209

Have the U.K. police returned? I saw on one of the Thai crime shows yesterday, U.K. police going into a conference. Maybe the footage was a couple of days old already. No doubt there are undercover agents still around.

[JLCrab]

First words from David Cameron since the UK police returned

"Prime Minister admits he is powerless to interfere in Thai judicial system to get justice for murdered Hannah Witheridge"

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/prime_minister_admits_he_is_powerless_to_interfere_in_thai_judicial_system_to_get_justice_for_murdered_hannah_witheridge_1_3837209

Have the U.K. police returned? I saw on one of the Thai crime shows yesterday, U.K. police going into a conference. Maybe the footage was a couple of days old already. No doubt there are undercover agents still around.

No doubt the undercover agents look like this:

[thailandchilli]

First words from David Cameron since the UK police returned

"Prime Minister admits he is powerless to interfere in Thai judicial system to get justice for murdered Hannah Witheridge"

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/prime_minister_admits_he_is_powerless_to_interfere_in_thai_judicial_system_to_get_justice_for_murdered_hannah_witheridge_1_3837209

Have the U.K. police returned? I saw on one of the Thai crime shows yesterday, U.K. police going into a conference. Maybe the footage was a couple of days old already. No doubt there are undercover agents still around.

No I just made an assumption and am probably wrong

[elektrified]

First words from David Cameron since the UK police returned

"Prime Minister admits he is powerless to interfere in Thai judicial system to get justice for murdered Hannah Witheridge"

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/prime_minister_admits_he_is_powerless_to_interfere_in_thai_judicial_system_to_get_justice_for_murdered_hannah_witheridge_1_3837209

Have the U.K. police returned? I saw on one of the Thai crime shows yesterday, U.K. police going into a conference. Maybe the footage was a couple of days old already. No doubt there are undercover agents still around.

No doubt the undercover agents look like this:

I doubt it.

[thailandchilli]

My take on this statement is that they are going to wait for the whole report to be completed before any other announcements are made. I note he is still 'very concerned' contrary to Thai statements that are always issued on behalf of the British.

The report will be damning that's for sure.

[JOC]

Mr Thawatchai said the additional interrogation was taking time as some witnesses were in Bangkok

Bangkok Post 6th Nov

More interestingly he said, they needed more time to investigate other suspects!!

Edited November 7, 2014 by JOC

[thailandchilli]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

[balo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7348164.stm

A burglar has been caught because of his bow-legged walk, but how easy is it to catch a criminal by analysing their gait?

John Rigg was both lucky and unlucky when he was caught on CCTV near a house he had burgled.

Lucky because it didn't catch his face. Unlucky because the footage showed his walk, which was, to the casual observer, rather like John Wayne's.

That is just a lot of BS ! You can pick other asian boys with similar walks and they would also match the the CCTV footage. It doesn't prove anything. It would not even be good enough to use in a court. The quality of the video is just not good enough .

[JOC]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

Sean McAnna would sell his mother for another few minutes in the limelight!!

[thailandchilli]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

Sean McAnna would sell his mother for another few minutes in the limelight!!

Yea he's a jerk and could not really trust anything he says anyway but all adds to the mix

[Krenjai]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

This running man was originally identified by the RTP as their main suspect and was taken into custody for a few days (not hours). We all know Sean is a fruitcake but he clearly identifies the runner. IMO he is right, the hair, the height everything, I said all along it was M who probably was in a rush organizing the escape speedboats! M was definitely involved IMHO and knows who the killers are (maybe he is one of them himself). It is a disgrace the B2 are still in custody!

Edited November 7, 2014 by Krenjai

[Krenjai]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

This running man was originally identified by the RTP as their main suspect and was taken into custody for a few days (not hours). We all know Sean is a fruitcake but he clearly identifies the runner. IMO he is right, the hair, the height everything, I said all along it was M who probably was in a rush organizing the escape speedboats! M was definitely involved IMHO and knows who the killers are (maybe he is one of them himself). It is a disgrace the B2 are still in custody!

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

"Another man, the younger brother of the former village headman, who is believed to be the man seen on a security camera near the crime scene, is still in custody."

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 07 Nov 2014 - 03:09, said:

Jdinasia@ Obviously. Meeting someone with a connection to one of 10 up market resorts in a city of millions, 1000's of miles away who shares your views....

Try getting your facts right JD, please tell me where you got this fantasy figure of millions of people in Oxford UK. The last count in 2011 was a population of just 150,000. In that figure there is a very large Thai community, I know I used to live and work there many years ago.

@thailandchilli - the lady doesn't live in Oxford, she lives in London and was visiting Oxford for the day, as I was. We sat at the same table in a restaurant and got talking. It was a chance meeting but a very informative one. I got the impression from her that the decent people on Koh Tao who are not tied to a certain family think there is something seriously wrong with the investigation into these murders.

I will not reply to Jdinasia directly as he is on my ignore list and I am not interested in anything he has to say.

[IslandLover]

DarloKnight, on 07 Nov 2014 - 10:37, said:

jdinasia, on 07 Nov 2014 - 10:27, said:

DarloKnight, on 07 Nov 2014 - 09:11, said:

Thank you for reply, there is a reason they have not gave an interview it's either out of respect and/or they have been asked not to by uk authorities.

Nobody even people formerly accused have given an interview.

How does respect weigh into it? What authority would the UK government have to request them not to tell their stories?

There are many more reasons that they would not talk. One is that they have nothing to add.

Respect for the victims family!

The travelling companions of Hannah and David will have been told by the British authorities not to give a statement to the press or anybody else until the time is right, which I expect will be at, or after the inquest. Given that this is an ongoing murder investigation, it's perfectly understandable.

[DennisF]

Cameron said:

But said: “Obviously we can’t interfere with another country’s judicial system, but we should do what we can to help, and to ensure that the people who did this are found and justice is done and that is what we are focused on.”

Notice, not has been... diplocrap or a mistake??

Who knows.

[AGareth2]

that was written for him

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 07 Nov 2014 - 16:24, said:

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

It's curious that when Sean was first asked this question by the CSI guy a few weeks ago, he said he didn't know whether Nomsod was on the island that night. Now he says he was.

[boomerangutang]

That is just a lot of BS ! You can pick other asian boys with similar walks and they would also match the the CCTV footage. It doesn't prove anything. It would not even be good enough to use in a court. The quality of the video is just not good enough .

>>> Did Thai officials arrange a reenactment of various suspects walking in that spot (near crime scene) under similar lighting conditions? No.

>>> How seriously did Thai officials look at clothing? We've heard a bit about a pair of shorts which were thought to have been blood spattered, but then found to be muddy. We heard, in the first days of the investigation that it appeared shorts from the male victim were taken by one of the murderers (and appeared to show up as being worn by the thin man on CCTV). In a crime like that, unless the murderers were nude, there would be bloody clothes. Did cops look at (and interview at) nearby laundry facilities? ...the bar, Mon's residence, local laundress? Did police scrutinize Mon's residence for any clues, or was it off limits because he's friends with cops? It's doubtful bloody clothes would have been tossed in the sea (because cloth often shows up later), but were all the trash bins in the immediate region checked? ....and what about evidence of quick burial - in soil/sand in vicinity? Were dogs brought in to sniff premises? My assumption is, these and a whole lot of other basic investigative methods weren't even considered by the investigating cops (who, as far as I can tell aren't trained in detective work).

[Soutpeel]

Cameron said:

But said: “Obviously we can’t interfere with another country’s judicial system, but we should do what we can to help, and to ensure that the people who did this are found and justice is done and that is what we are focused on.”

Notice, not has been... diplocrap or a mistake??

Who knows.

It will not be a mistake, unlike officials Thailand, who spout verbal diarrhea all the time and put their foot in it, the politicians in the UK are very careful what is said or put in print, the words are "crafted"

diplocrap most likely, but could also be a veiled reference suggesting the RTP are full of sh*t we know it, but cant be seen to interfering in a police investigation in another country...

and the fact is they cant interfere..

[mojorison]

thailandchilli, on 07 Nov 2014 - 03:09, said:

Jdinasia@ Obviously. Meeting someone with a connection to one of 10 up market resorts in a city of millions, 1000's of miles away who shares your views....

Try getting your facts right JD, please tell me where you got this fantasy figure of millions of people in Oxford UK. The last count in 2011 was a population of just 150,000. In that figure there is a very large Thai community, I know I used to live and work there many years ago.

@thailandchilli - the lady doesn't live in Oxford, she lives in London and was visiting Oxford for the day, as I was. We sat at the same table in a restaurant and got talking. It was a chance meeting but a very informative one. I got the impression from her that the decent people on Koh Tao who are not tied to a certain family think there is something seriously wrong with the investigation into these murders.

I will not reply to Jdinasia directly as he is on my ignore list and I am not interested in anything he has to say.

In saying this you are totally correct. One has an inkling of the goings on in one's own street, so to speak. Many, many people here are very active on social media. They are not happy.

[joebrown]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

Sean McAnna would sell his mother for another few minutes in the limelight!!

I believe Sean knows a lot more about these murders than he's already said. He may be a 'bad apple' but I don't agree that he's been looking for another few minutes in the limelight. Where are the newspaper interviews etc? It appears just the opposite to me!

[Soutpeel]

I see that CSI has just received an email from Sean McAnna interesting if genuine saying that Nomsod was in Koh Tao on the night of the murders, also giving some insight into him.

No doubt the British police have already taken a statement from him

Sean's also active on his Google account https://plus.google.com/101768055405292405319/posts/ZeoTy8iBjv4

Sean McAnna would sell his mother for another few minutes in the limelight!!

I believe Sean knows a lot more about these murders than he's already said. He may be a 'bad apple' but I don't agree that he's been looking for another few minutes in the limelight. Where are the newspaper interviews etc? It appears just the opposite to me!

That would be my thought as well, if this guy is the attention seeker people say he is, one would have expected to see:

" my night of terror being pursued by Thai Mafia on a tropical island" in the Daily Mail or similar, and let's face it those rags are not too fussy what they post as regards " facts"

[Bleacher Bum East]

So of the persons mentioned in Post #369 not one of those categories of persons other than the criminals themselves would have any information that would be admissible in a US court of law unless the criminals themselves specifically told such persons that they did it and even that would be questionable.

Your comment is absolutely wrong.

All of these persons could potentially have information that would be admissible.