Russian troops enter Ukraine - Nato

[webfact]

Ukraine crisis: Russian troops crossed border, Nato says

(BBC) Nato has seen Russian military equipment and Russian combat troops entering Ukraine this week, its top commander Gen Philip Breedlove says.

Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg later urged Russia to pull back its forces.

Russia's defence ministry denied sending troops to eastern Ukraine to help pro-Russian separatists there.

The European OSCE monitoring mission has warned of "a real risk" of further escalation in a conflict that has killed more than 4,000 people.

Heavy artillery fire rocked the east Ukrainian city of Donetsk, the industrial hub held by pro-Russian separatist rebels, on Wednesday.

There were also reports of fighting near the rebel-held city of Luhansk, with one Ukrainian soldier killed and another injured, according to Ukrainian security forces.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30025138


-- BBC 2014-11-13

[Somtamnication]

It is about to explode. I'm staying in Thailand, warts and all!

[konying]

It is about to explode. I'm staying in Thailand, warts and all!

Not at all.

Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO

US kept playing with sleeping bear and finally woke the bear up.

Deal with the consequences.

No doubt Publicus will be over shortly preaching how US is by far more superior, so will see.

PS, i do not believe Russian troops did enter, as usual American propaganda. If they did enter, Moscow would not be denying it

Moscow slams NATO’s accusations of invasion in Ukraine as groundless http://rt.com/news/204895-russia-ukraine-military-nato/ NATO: ‘Russian troops in Ukraine - but we have no good picture’

Earlier on Wednesday, General Breedlove declared that NATO had “seen” the Russian army crossing the Ukraine border.

"Across the last two days we have seen the same thing that OSCE is reporting. We have seen columns of Russian equipment, primarily Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops entering into Ukraine," Breedlove told journalists in Sofia.

Although he added that NATO does not “have a good picture at this time of how many. We agree that there are multiple columns that we have seen."

NATO has previously made numerous statements of the kind, but failed to provide any concrete evidence.

[car720]

It is about to explode. I'm staying in Thailand, warts and all!

Not at all.

Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO

US kept playing with sleeping bear and finally woke the bear up.

Deal with the consequences.

No doubt Publicus will be over shortly preaching how US is by far more superior, so will see.

PS, i do not believe Russian troops did enter, as usual American propaganda. If they did enter, Moscow would not be denying it

Moscow slams NATO’s accusations of invasion in Ukraine as groundless http://rt.com/news/204895-russia-ukraine-military-nato/NATO: ‘Russian troops in Ukraine - but we have no good picture’

Earlier on Wednesday, General Breedlove declared that NATO had “seen” the Russian army crossing the Ukraine border.

"Across the last two days we have seen the same thing that OSCE is reporting. We have seen columns of Russian equipment, primarily Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops entering into Ukraine," Breedlove told journalists in Sofia.

Although he added that NATO does not “have a good picture at this time of how many. We agree that there are multiple columns that we have seen."

NATO has previously made numerous statements of the kind, but failed to provide any concrete evidence.

but you must admit that Putin is not the one to back down from a fight that he thinks he can win and at this time I'm not sure if antagonism on either side is the right answer. He may feel that because China is rattling its sabre that now is a good time but he must be careful not to make the same mistake that Napoleon and Hitler made and find himself with 2 fronts. The Chinese for all their smiling do not trust the Russians and it has been my experience that the Chinese are dangerous around something that they don't trust.

[RustBucket]

So where is the proof?

Surely NATO are going by satellite imagery. So why are they not publishing the images?

To be honest, I think the US controlled NATO are spoiling for a war, and they will probably be obliged by Russia who is happy to thumb their noses at the west.

NATO and the US needs to start taking a step back. NATO was founded as an allied defence mechanism. Not a world police force. The US has turned it into something it was not created for. We can see the evidence regarding Libya. Pure offensive. Now they are looking for more.

Well Russia is NOT Libya, and they will have their hands full this time around.

For anyone claiming Russia is afraid of the US or NATO has another thing coming. The US and all its allies had a tough time in Iraq and Afghanistan over a decade and those countries are nothing compared with Russia.

First of all they will collapse the US economy overnight and make the USD worthless so everyone will dump it. Then the US will have instant economic and social domestic mayhem.

I am no big fan of Putin, but I have to say I laugh at those who think they will be pushed over easily by the US or NATO.... Most of the NATO countries will vote against kicking the bear. The UK public will never allow it, and neither will any other EU country's public.

The US will find themselves pretty isolated on the subject of military intervention. They will be the ones to back down. I guarantee it.

[lovetotravel]

OSCE has reported the sighting of troops in Ukraine. Not just Nato. Do some research on OSCE.

Of course Russia won't admit this. Why should they?

Russian troops have been reported in Ukraine many times, but some still want to believe this is not true. What can you do? American propaganda? What about Russian propaganda? It cuts both ways, right?

[lovetotravel]

Look at the pictures in the article. The trucks and tanks sure looks new and well maintained. With markings blotted out. Why would the rebels do that?

[konying]

It is about to explode. I'm staying in Thailand, warts and all!

Not at all.

Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO

US kept playing with sleeping bear and finally woke the bear up.

Deal with the consequences.

No doubt Publicus will be over shortly preaching how US is by far more superior, so will see.

PS, i do not believe Russian troops did enter, as usual American propaganda. If they did enter, Moscow would not be denying it

Moscow slams NATO’s accusations of invasion in Ukraine as groundless http://rt.com/news/204895-russia-ukraine-military-nato/NATO: ‘Russian troops in Ukraine - but we have no good picture’

Earlier on Wednesday, General Breedlove declared that NATO had “seen” the Russian army crossing the Ukraine border.

"Across the last two days we have seen the same thing that OSCE is reporting. We have seen columns of Russian equipment, primarily Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops entering into Ukraine," Breedlove told journalists in Sofia.

Although he added that NATO does not “have a good picture at this time of how many. We agree that there are multiple columns that we have seen."

NATO has previously made numerous statements of the kind, but failed to provide any concrete evidence.

but you must admit that Putin is not the one to back down from a fight that he thinks he can win and at this time I'm not sure if antagonism on either side is the right answer. He may feel that because China is rattling its sabre that now is a good time but he must be careful not to make the same mistake that Napoleon and Hitler made and find himself with 2 fronts. The Chinese for all their smiling do not trust the Russians and it has been my experience that the Chinese are dangerous around something that they don't trust.

You know the saying" enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

China and Russia both have same interests and latest second largest Gas deal makes them even stronger partners.

If Putin wanted to take Ukraine, i am certain he would in less than a few weeks.

Of course he supports the so called rebels, just as US supports rebels in Syria.

Despite of all the loud noise by the patriots, which are soon to come, Russia does not go thousands of miles away to occupy and control.

Ukraine has been a parasite leeching off EU and stealing the money, latest coal purchase is a perfect example of that.

The fact that Ukrainian army has killed over 4000 civilians does not seem to bother NATO or US or EU, The fact that Ukrainian army targets schools and hospitals, also does not seem to be a concern.

Even the so called humanitarian agency's do not seem to care.

[konying]

OSCE has reported the sighting of troops in Ukraine. Not just Nato. Do some research on OSCE.

Of course Russia won't admit this. Why should they?

Russian troops have been reported in Ukraine many times, but some still want to believe this is not true. What can you do? American propaganda? What about Russian propaganda? It cuts both ways, right?

They also had hard evidence that Russia shot down the plane, only that hard evidence never made it to the table and latest reports by German Intelligence and Dutch suggest otherwise.

How is this any different?

[konying]

Look at the pictures in the article. The trucks and tanks sure looks new and well maintained. With markings blotted out. Why would the rebels do that?

Then what you are saying would be in total contradiction to what everyone else is saying, which is Russian army is outdated, old, inferior, poorly maintained etc etc etc

PS. I thought NATO said they do not have a picture, so they do have a picture or stock photo was used? The trees have markings of being Ukrainian?

Edited November 13, 2014 by konying

[car720]

So where is the proof?

Surely NATO are going by satellite imagery. So why are they not publishing the images?

To be honest, I think the US controlled NATO are spoiling for a war, and they will probably be obliged by Russia who is happy to thumb their noses at the west.

NATO and the US needs to start taking a step back. NATO was founded as an allied defence mechanism. Not a world police force. The US has turned it into something it was not created for. We can see the evidence regarding Libya. Pure offensive. Now they are looking for more.

Well Russia is NOT Libya, and they will have their hands full this time around.

For anyone claiming Russia is afraid of the US or NATO has another thing coming. The US and all its allies had a tough time in Iraq and Afghanistan over a decade and those countries are nothing compared with Russia.

First of all they will collapse the US economy overnight and make the USD worthless so everyone will dump it. Then the US will have instant economic and social domestic mayhem.

I am no big fan of Putin, but I have to say I laugh at those who think they will be pushed over easily by the US or NATO.... Most of the NATO countries will vote against kicking the bear. The UK public will never allow it, and neither will any other EU country's public.

The US will find themselves pretty isolated on the subject of military intervention. They will be the ones to back down. I guarantee it.

I am sure that the average US citizen is an ok Joe, however their military on the other hand are not. I have always considered them dangerous children with guns. I think that they will have no quams about pushing the button first. After that it is too late for anyone else anyway. Does anyone remember the bay of pigs? Then along came Gorbachov, thank God but this guy is not for perestroyka or glasnost. (I apologize for my spelling). Having said that, and to be fair, any man with the balls to throw a blanket over a cold woman is not all bad. I wonder if Obama would have had the sand.

[lovetotravel]

You know the saying" enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

China and Russia both have same interests and latest second largest Gas deal makes them even stronger partners.

If Putin wanted to take Ukraine, i am certain he would in less than a few weeks.

Of course he supports the so called rebels, just as US supports rebels in Syria.

Despite of all the loud noise by the patriots, which are soon to come, Russia does not go thousands of miles away to occupy and control.

Ukraine has been a parasite leeching off EU and stealing the money, latest coal purchase is a perfect example of that.

The fact that Ukrainian army has killed over 4000 civilians does not seem to bother NATO or US or EU, The fact that Ukrainian army targets schools and hospitals, also does not seem to be a concern.

Even the so called humanitarian agency's do not seem to care.

Why would you support invasion of a country? Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Sure, Putin could take it in 2 weeks. Heck, any world power could do that. But is it justified? Absolutely not. They need to choose their own path, without outside invaders.

As for Syria, Russia is the main supporter there, has been way before involvement by western powers. Do some research on where they were getting their weapons from. Russia.

Ukraine a parasite? It's an impoverished country whose wealth was squandered by the previous government. The one associated with Russia. Here's where the former president lived, while others lived in poverty:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10656023/In-pictures-Inside-the-palace-Yanukovych-didnt-want-Ukraine-to-see.html

You seem to be out of touch with reality.

[Elefteros]

The fact is that 4000 people, that you are talking about, are killed by terrorist, not by Ukrainian army. It is absolutely clear that Russia send troops to Ukraine - all the people (russians and ukranians) living by the border see it everyday

Just in case if you want to see "pictures"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPwXda685Gk&feature=youtube_gdata

[Elefteros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf7gTMcWbr4

[lovetotravel]

Look at the pictures in the article. The trucks and tanks sure looks new and well maintained. With markings blotted out. Why would the rebels do that?

Then what you are saying would be in total contradiction to what everyone else is saying, which is Russian army is outdated, old, inferior, poorly maintained etc etc etc

PS. I thought NATO said they do not have a picture, so they do have a picture or stock photo was used? The trees have markings of being Ukrainian?

I'm not sure who you are referring to? Russian military equipment is far from outdated and old. The best in the world? Probably not. But outdated? Not since their massive buildup the past few years. Spending has increased dramatically.

NATO is using pictures from people who are on the ground there, and from outside observers.

You talk about American propaganda. Do you think Russia could be responsible of the same thing? I sure hope you think yes.

[lovetotravel]

The fact is that 4000 people, that you are talking about, are killed by terrorist, not by Ukrainian army. It is absolutely clear that Russia send troops to Ukraine - all the people (russians and ukranians) living by the border see it everyday

Just in case if you want to see "pictures"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPwXda685Gk&feature=youtube_gdata

And yet many want to deny this. Incredible.

Best of luck to the people of Ukraine. Looks like going to need it, desperately.

[konying]

You know the saying" enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

China and Russia both have same interests and latest second largest Gas deal makes them even stronger partners.

If Putin wanted to take Ukraine, i am certain he would in less than a few weeks.

Of course he supports the so called rebels, just as US supports rebels in Syria.

Despite of all the loud noise by the patriots, which are soon to come, Russia does not go thousands of miles away to occupy and control.

Ukraine has been a parasite leeching off EU and stealing the money, latest coal purchase is a perfect example of that.

The fact that Ukrainian army has killed over 4000 civilians does not seem to bother NATO or US or EU, The fact that Ukrainian army targets schools and hospitals, also does not seem to be a concern.

Even the so called humanitarian agency's do not seem to care.

Why would you support invasion of a country? Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Sure, Putin could take it in 2 weeks. Heck, any world power could do that. But is it justified? Absolutely not. They need to choose their own path, without outside invaders.

As for Syria, Russia is the main supporter there, has been way before involvement by western powers. Do some research on where they were getting their weapons from. Russia.

Ukraine a parasite? It's an impoverished country whose wealth was squandered by the previous government. The one associated with Russia. Here's where the former president lived, while others lived in poverty:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10656023/In-pictures-Inside-the-palace-Yanukovych-didnt-want-Ukraine-to-see.html

You seem to be out of touch with reality.

1 . I never said I support counrry invasion

2. Ukraine was always poor but spounged off Russia

3. Current government is stealing money, do some reading into first bail out for gas and bill never paid. Second bail out and wasted on coal at double the price and coal is missing.

4. Isis is armed with US weapons. So what's your point? Taliban is armed with US weapons.

5. US supports people choice and democracy? Is that why US supported an illegal overthrow of a government in Ukraine but does not respect or recognise the vote of rebels?

6. US stands for all this and that but remains silent on 4000 civilians killed and millions displaced ? And continues to support the murder?

[konying]

The fact is that 4000 people, that you are talking about, are killed by terrorist, not by Ukrainian army. It is absolutely clear that Russia send troops to Ukraine - all the people (russians and ukranians) living by the border see it everyday

Just in case if you want to see "pictures"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q8LCfLfXn0

Great videos , I guess nato does not have access to YouTube , otherwise they would not be claiming not to have picture

[konying]

The fact is that 4000 people, that you are talking about, are killed by terrorist, not by Ukrainian army. It is absolutely clear that Russia send troops to Ukraine - all the people (russians and ukranians) living by the border see it everyday

Just in case if you want to see "pictures"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q8LCfLfXn0

And yet many want to deny this. Incredible.

Best of luck to the people of Ukraine. Looks like going to need it, desperately.

Russian number plates on the civilian cars, so.....????

[konying]

Look at the pictures in the article. The trucks and tanks sure looks new and well maintained. With markings blotted out. Why would the rebels do that?

Then what you are saying would be in total contradiction to what everyone else is saying, which is Russian army is outdated, old, inferior, poorly maintained etc etc etc

PS. I thought NATO said they do not have a picture, so they do have a picture or stock photo was used? The trees have markings of being Ukrainian?

I'm not sure who you are referring to? Russian military equipment is far from outdated and old. The best in the world? Probably not. But outdated? Not since their massive buildup the past few years. Spending has increased dramatically.

NATO is using pictures from people who are on the ground there, and from outside observers.

You talk about American propaganda. Do you think Russia could be responsible of the same thing? I sure hope you think yes.

I never said there is no russian propaganda, nato does not have any pictures as already admitted by the commander

[Scott]

The topic is about Russian troops entering Ukraine. It is also about NATO. The US is one member of NATO. Attempts to turn this into a US-bashing topic will get your post removed.

I am sure there will be a topic along that cites the US policy and that would be the appropriate place to express your opinion about the US policy toward Ukraine.

Please stay on-topic.

[Credo]

The current US administration does not appear to be inclined to get heavily involved in the Ukrainian situation. There has been rhetoric, but that's about it. As a member of Nato, any action will be taken cooperatively. If Europe doesn't want action, then it won't happen. This problem is on Europe's doorstep. The US has little to gain or lose in the situation. Europe has a lot at stake.

Russia's economy is unraveling and foreign adventures or misadventures are always a convenient distraction from problems at home. Ukraine is a pretty easy target and a reasonably sure bet. The EU really doesn't want Ukraine. But the EU doesn't want Russia on it's doorstep.

If everyone plays their cards right it could end without too many losers. Ukraine will lose either way, though.

[EnglishJohn]

I can't believe the USA haters are supporting Russia and Putin. You people are a disgrace.

Open your eyes and stop reading those internet sites written by nutters. Sane people accept Russia shot down the airliner (we don't know if it was an accident or not) and it is as plain as day that they want their territory back - and plan to take it by force if the bullying tactics fail. Hitler did exactly the same thing : once a small country realises the rest of the world will do nothing, they have no choice but to give in.

Putin has calculated that in the aftermath of Iraq and Afghanistan the people of the world have no stomach for another conflict - and he is probably right. They will bluster and shout and impose sanctions - but they only affect the people, not the leaders and in a country like Russia, they can do whatever they like and cover it up. Of course, USA haters ignore small things like that as it doesn't suit their agenda. The freedom they have to make their views known was given to them by the very people they are attacking.

The big question is the same as it was for Hitler : if he succeeds here, his confidence grows and who might be next ?.

The world is gearing up for a new cold war - China, the USA and Russia. Russia wants to make sure it is in the best possible position when it starts.

[mattyc1957]

I can't believe the anti-US/NATO sentiments here. The bottom line is the Ukraine is the Ukraine. If the pro-Russian separatists don't like living in the Ukraine then move back to Russia. You can't just take part of a county's territory from it by force. Russia wouldn't stand for it, so why do they do it to others?

[konying]

The current US administration does not appear to be inclined to get heavily involved in the Ukrainian situation. There has been rhetoric, but that's about it. As a member of Nato, any action will be taken cooperatively. If Europe doesn't want action, then it won't happen. This problem is on Europe's doorstep. The US has little to gain or lose in the situation. Europe has a lot at stake.

Russia's economy is unraveling and foreign adventures or misadventures are always a convenient distraction from problems at home. Ukraine is a pretty easy target and a reasonably sure bet. The EU really doesn't want Ukraine. But the EU doesn't want Russia on it's doorstep.

If everyone plays their cards right it could end without too many losers. Ukraine will lose either way, though.

Why would EU be worried about having Russia at its doorstep ?

EU had Russia on its door step for past 500 years if not longer and in the past 20 years has done very good trade with Russia.

[lovetotravel]

I never said there is no russian propaganda, nato does not have any pictures as already admitted by the commander

None that's been made public, anyway. If they can read a license place from a satellite, they for sure know what's going on in Ukraine.

[Credo]

The current US administration does not appear to be inclined to get heavily involved in the Ukrainian situation. There has been rhetoric, but that's about it. As a member of Nato, any action will be taken cooperatively. If Europe doesn't want action, then it won't happen. This problem is on Europe's doorstep. The US has little to gain or lose in the situation. Europe has a lot at stake.

Russia's economy is unraveling and foreign adventures or misadventures are always a convenient distraction from problems at home. Ukraine is a pretty easy target and a reasonably sure bet. The EU really doesn't want Ukraine. But the EU doesn't want Russia on it's doorstep.

If everyone plays their cards right it could end without too many losers. Ukraine will lose either way, though.

Why would EU be worried about having Russia at its doorstep ?

EU had Russia on its door step for past 500 years if not longer and in the past 20 years has done very good trade with Russia.

Well, I am not sure why they should be worried, but since NATO consists of 25 countries from Europe and they issued the statement, they must be a little worried.

[siampolee]

Frankly perhaps a look at the history of that area might well indicate what a dogs dinner the Ukraine is. As is Russian involvement in the area to name but one nation.

The Ukraine .

More ups and downs than a whores drawers on pay day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

[lovetotravel]

The current US administration does not appear to be inclined to get heavily involved in the Ukrainian situation. There has been rhetoric, but that's about it. As a member of Nato, any action will be taken cooperatively. If Europe doesn't want action, then it won't happen. This problem is on Europe's doorstep. The US has little to gain or lose in the situation. Europe has a lot at stake.

Russia's economy is unraveling and foreign adventures or misadventures are always a convenient distraction from problems at home. Ukraine is a pretty easy target and a reasonably sure bet. The EU really doesn't want Ukraine. But the EU doesn't want Russia on it's doorstep.

If everyone plays their cards right it could end without too many losers. Ukraine will lose either way, though.

Why would EU be worried about having Russia at its doorstep ?

EU had Russia on its door step for past 500 years if not longer and in the past 20 years has done very good trade with Russia.

Well, I am not sure why they should be worried, but since NATO consists of 25 countries from Europe and they issued the statement, they must be a little worried.

Many former Eastern bloc nations that are now part of NATO are extremely worried. It wasn't that long ago Russia invaded their countries and annexed them. Just like they are doing now in Ukraine and have done in other countries in the not too distant past. The precedent has been set and they are worried it will happen to them again.

[mattyc1957]

Well said English John. Agree 100%