Koh Tao murder trial date brought forward by 2 months

[richusa]

I will never set foot on any of those islands ever again,

And I hope others do the same for a couple years, let those crooks suffer.

I will use Bangkok as a stepping stone in and out of this corrupt country.

Hope I don't get shaken down in the next week along Sukhumvit.

[Mooner]

From Andy Hall:

Just finished a very intense 4 hours strategy meeting/discussions with Koh Tao case lead lawyer and senior advisor to LCT Koh Tao case legal team Nakhon Chompuchat in Bangkok.

Nakhon is also my lawyer in Natural Fruit cases and my personal hero for his hard work and commitment to human rights issues in Thailand

Nakhon explained to me in detail how Koh Tao case preliminary court hearing brought forward from Feb 25th 2015 to Dec 26th 2014 has the most serious and concerning implications for his preparation of the defense case against the charges laid against the defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo. He explained (see picture one) Samui court now demanded 10 sets of documents/evidence from both defense/prosecution to be submitted at same time by 18th Dec 2014 (in 7 days time), 7 days prior to the hearing on 26th Dec 2014.

These 10 required documents/evidence the defense must urgently assemble are:

(1) List of how many witnesses/evidence will be brought for consideration of court;

(2) Explanation of how each of witnesses/evidence brought for consideration of court relats to particular charge or case issue;

(3) List of witnesses who will be called to give testimony of same issues;

(4) List of witnesses or evidence/information that request other side to accept;

(5) List of forensic science witnesses or evidence such as results of verification or experts that will be brought for consideration of the court and in relation to which specific case issues must be stated clearly;

(6) List of issues that require viewing of the scene or transferring to another court

(7) List of order of bringing to court the witnesses for testimony

(8) List of any child or youth witnesses below the age of 18 or any witnesses requiring translation during testimony

(9) List of witnesses that the court has to issue the summons to appear at the court on date of testimony

(10) Statement of the number of days the two parties to the case need to use for witness/evidence testimony

Nakhon must lead the defense lawyers team now to prepare defense arguments and witnesses without EVER SEEING prosecution witness list/arguments. In essence, the defense team only has the complaint prosecuted at the court, a 6 page bland document stating what Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are charged of, and the Thai autopsy or victim medical report but nothing else of substance.

Nakhon explained to me how Samui court stated Koh Tao case preliminary hearing brought forward to 26th Dec 2014 (in 15 days time) from 25 Feb 2015 to ensure swift justice/effective case management for all sides. Following court discussions, Nakhon reported that reason for sudden date change in afternoon was concern defendants would otherwise remain jailed for long time without trial so must speed up case hearings.

Nakhon expressed deep concern how Koh Tao prosecutor (Koh Samui prosecutors office) prosecuted the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo on 4th Dec without submitting any witness/evidence lists, even though the prosecutor stated that their preparation was all completed and hence must have all lists complete already. This makes he and his lawyers defense team's preparation very difficult as the defense have no idea what the evidence against the defendants is but have to submit within 7 days a final and complete list of all their evidence/witnesses.

Finally, the prosecution in Koh Tao case frequently reported to media that the reason for prior delay prosecuting the accused was that the victims family had not replied to join the prosecution. However, now the judge/court ordered yesterday (picture two) the prosecution to continue without the victims families response. The court heard the David Miller's family is expected to respond relating to the opportunity to join the prosecution and claim damages by Fri 12th Dec but there has been no response from the family of Hannah Witheridge.

Shameful.

This kind of court procedure is shocking!

If something like that would happen in any developed country it would be a major scandal.

After all the media coverage and accusations towards the RTP you would think that the case would be transparent and fair. Then this happens!!

Nothing to see here. Nothing underhand here. This is completely normal behaviour that happens in most cases. We must all be conspiracy theorist if we suggest otherwise

[jdinasia]

Just a thought.

But one wonders whether some of the, ''hang em high brigade foreigners'' here might have advised their ''friends'' in the police farce force that pushing for a Christmasing trial period would indeed be a wise time to proceed with this case as most foreigners will be preoccupied with Christmas and New Year celebrations.

Hence public opinon would be focused on said festivities as opposed to this flawed case and as a result injustice could be done.

Because, why not add even more conspiracy theories to the list!!

[arrowsdawdle]

was most likely brought forward so to have the trail finished before the official report is released by the UK on Jan 5th !

That and having a shake and bake trial on Christmas whilst all are distracted is classic news cycle PR management.

[Fat Haggis]

Just a thought.

But one wonders whether some of the, ''hang em high brigade foreigners'' here might have advised their ''friends'' in the police farce force that pushing for a Christmasing trial period would indeed be a wise time to proceed with this case as most foreigners will be preoccupied with Christmas and New Year celebrations.

Hence public opinon would be focused on said festivities as opposed to this flawed case and as a result injustice could be done.

Stop being so clever!! You mean those who keep saying they have no agenda or dog in this fight but can't stop posting ?

EVERYONE has an agenda of some sort'n

?

[thailauren]

It is after all BOXING DAY. But who will be boxing whom is the question.

[jpeg]

After all the media coverage and accusations towards the RTP you would think that the case would be transparent and fair. Then this happens!!

Precisely. Of that which I've been allowed access to under this freedom loving junta, Thailand is fast becoming a pariah state. A 'guilty' verdict will simply be the last nail in this country's coffin, rep wise, and rightly so. I can't believe this ship of fools will be prepared to see this happen

[Tanlic]

What are the legal grounds for moving up the trial ?

the grounds mainly dirt and manure according to most. I have no idea about what is and what is not legal when it comes to Thai Justice

[dzodun]

As I predicted some days ago on another thread, and as some of you are now agreeing, the Thai courts will

try to carry out as much of this travesty as they can over the West's Christmas holidays, while many there

will be too occupied with family responsibilities to take notice. I was very surprised the other day when the

trial was scheduled for late February. Most likely that was a ploy to mislead many interested Westerners into

thinking they can stop worrying about the case for the moment. Many who miss this change of date will be

oblivious to the legal proceedings beginning on Boxing day. By the time many of these interested farang get

time to follow up watching the trial, it may well be in the appeal stage by then.

[Mooner]

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

[Strangebrew]

Just In UK to have inquest report on this Friday.

[Mooner]

Just In UK to have inquest report on this Friday.

Source?

[flyingdoc]

Why the change in date only 48 hours after announcing the February date?

[flyingdoc]

Why the change in date only 48 hours after announcing the February date?

[flyingdoc]

Why the change in date only 48 hours after announcing the February date?

[wilcopops]

Just In UK to have inquest report on this Friday.

Can you post a link for this?

[wilcopops]

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Yet another poster who has missed the point - it is the procedure and processes that have rendered any trial a farce regardless of what "evidence" is produced.

In the states or UK this trial would never have taken place.

[loonodingle]

Boxing Day.

[Mooner]

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Yet another poster who has missed the point - it is the procedure and processes that have rendered any trial a farce regardless of what "evidence" is produced.

In the states or UK this trial would never have taken place.

I haven't missed the point! I am a keen supporter of the B2(Don't think they did it and if they did they were not alone!) My post is what should be expected for this case to go ahead.

[jdinasia]

They didn't do it, but if they did it was as a part of a larger conspiracy? Really??

Contradict yourself then compound it!

[Si Thea01]

was most likely brought forward so to have the trail finished before the official report is released by the UK on Jan 5th !

Is that correct, the official report will be released in the UK on the 5th January 2015? So you're suggesting that the case was brought forward and it will be all over red rover before that date? Taking into account there are two weekends in that period, that only leaves 6 days for a trail to commence and finish, or if they were to sit over each weekend that would give ten sitting days in total.

How long do you think a trial takes to reach finality? Have you ever listened to or been involved in a murder case, where the defendants have plead "not guilty" and it has reached a conclusion in this space of time? Firstly, the prosecution has to present its case, which involves witnesses giving evidence, cross examination of those witnesses, then the defence put it's case and may call witnesses and then their cross examination, following which the judge or judges have to make a determination. And all this was most likely done before a report, which will have little, if any, consequence on the outcome, is released.

It is clear that many have little faith in the Thai legal system but for it to be suggested that the matter will be finalised in 10 days is a little unrealistic, that is providing all the evidence has to be heard. But then, if there are as many inconsistencies as some state, the court might find in the defendant's favour and dismiss the murder case for those reasons. However, one would imagine that they would still have to answer to some of the other matters for which they have been charged.

We can all surmise many things but now that the hearing is in train we will have to await the outcome when it is finally delivered. No matter which way it goes there will always be a hue and cry over how the matter was handled from the beginning but if found guilty they have the right to appeal, which will see this matter prolonged for quite some time and much longer then you now suggest.

[Si Thea01]

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Yet another poster who has missed the point - it is the procedure and processes that have rendered any trial a farce regardless of what "evidence" is produced.

In the states or UK this trial would never have taken place.

So you're not only knowledgeable insofar as the Thai legal system but also in respect to the Westminster legal system and also that of the United States. May I ask how you are able to presume that such a matter would not go to trial under either of those jurisdictions and state so unequivocally?

[Fat Haggis]

Maybe he's referring to the part where such a high profile case wouldn't be suddenly brought forwards two months and the defence having not seen this cast iron evidence?

Do you know any other western countries that would so this? I'm sure I read on TVF it was to try and make to defendants change their plea!!

If the evidence is rock solid and convincing it doesn't matter if the trial is in 2 months or 2 years the evidence speaks for itself. Bit to being it forwards and if it's true, an attempt by the prosecutor to have them change their plea sounds more like that evidences isn't quite as solid and convincing after all.

Considering the police submitted or what? 6 times and the prosecutors threw it out 5 times saying it wasn't enough, but now it's rock solid?

Yeah of course it is!!

[Willy Eckerslike]

was most likely brought forward so to have the trail finished before the official report is released by the UK on Jan 5th !

Is that correct, the official report will be released in the UK on the 5th January 2015? So you're suggesting that the case was brought forward and it will be all over red rover before that date? Taking into account there are two weekends in that period, that only leaves 6 days for a trail to commence and finish, or if they were to sit over each weekend that would give ten sitting days in total.

How long do you think a trial takes to reach finality? Have you ever listened to or been involved in a murder case, where the defendants have plead "not guilty" and it has reached a conclusion in this space of time? Firstly, the prosecution has to present its case, which involves witnesses giving evidence, cross examination of those witnesses, then the defence put it's case and may call witnesses and then their cross examination, following which the judge or judges have to make a determination. And all this was most likely done before a report, which will have little, if any, consequence on the outcome, is released.

It is clear that many have little faith in the Thai legal system but for it to be suggested that the matter will be finalised in 10 days is a little unrealistic, that is providing all the evidence has to be heard. But then, if there are as many inconsistencies as some state, the court might find in the defendant's favour and dismiss the murder case for those reasons. However, one would imagine that they would still have to answer to some of the other matters for which they have been charged.

We can all surmise many things but now that the hearing is in train we will have to await the outcome when it is finally delivered. No matter which way it goes there will always be a hue and cry over how the matter was handled from the beginning but if found guilty they have the right to appeal, which will see this matter prolonged for quite some time and much longer then you now suggest.

Good post, except it is probably only 4 days of trial due to the NY holidays which I believe includes the 2nd this year to allow a five day break

EDIT, I am counting the 5th due to the time difference

[Si Thea01]

was most likely brought forward so to have the trail finished before the official report is released by the UK on Jan 5th !

Is that correct, the official report will be released in the UK on the 5th January 2015? So you're suggesting that the case was brought forward and it will be all over red rover before that date? Taking into account there are two weekends in that period, that only leaves 6 days for a trail to commence and finish, or if they were to sit over each weekend that would give ten sitting days in total.

How long do you think a trial takes to reach finality? Have you ever listened to or been involved in a murder case, where the defendants have plead "not guilty" and it has reached a conclusion in this space of time? Firstly, the prosecution has to present its case, which involves witnesses giving evidence, cross examination of those witnesses, then the defence put it's case and may call witnesses and then their cross examination, following which the judge or judges have to make a determination. And all this was most likely done before a report, which will have little, if any, consequence on the outcome, is released.

It is clear that many have little faith in the Thai legal system but for it to be suggested that the matter will be finalised in 10 days is a little unrealistic, that is providing all the evidence has to be heard. But then, if there are as many inconsistencies as some state, the court might find in the defendant's favour and dismiss the murder case for those reasons. However, one would imagine that they would still have to answer to some of the other matters for which they have been charged.

We can all surmise many things but now that the hearing is in train we will have to await the outcome when it is finally delivered. No matter which way it goes there will always be a hue and cry over how the matter was handled from the beginning but if found guilty they have the right to appeal, which will see this matter prolonged for quite some time and much longer then you now suggest.

Good post, except it is probably only 4 days of trial due to the NY holidays which I believe includes the 2nd this year to allow a five day break

EDIT, I am counting the 5th due to the time difference

Thanks. Your right, I forgot about New years day, so from Thursday the 1st to Monday the 5th January, no work for the Courts or other government departments as most take a five day break. So it is even less time that one is suggesting it will be all over red rover.

[superdome]

Now I am really worried for those young scapegoats.

As an ex copper....so am i.....BIG TME

[Krenjai]

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Yet another poster who has missed the point - it is the procedure and processes that have rendered any trial a farce regardless of what "evidence" is produced.

In the states or UK this trial would never have taken place.

I haven't missed the point! I am a keen supporter of the B2(Don't think they did it and if they did they were not alone!) My post is what should be expected for this case to go ahead.

Agree with your posts........

DNA: Even if they have this it doesn't mean a thing, anybody that believes the B2 are innocent will not believe the RTP's DNA findings. That is why we need independently verified DNA form the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples.

Fingerprints: Hmmmm..........same as above......on the hoe, phone or even the recently introduced sunglasses...... it doesn't mean a thing. They could have been planted. On top of this, to expect the world to believe there was only one murder weapon already disqualifies the whole RTP report. Even the RTP reported in the early days there was a second murder weapon. By looking at David's his wounds (+no DNA from David on the hoe) the defense should have enough ammunition to rip this RTP case apart.

CCTV: If there was such a thing that would damage the B2 we would have seen it by now. They don't have it, all circumstantial.

Witness Testimony: This is tricky one as there are 20 (twenty) witnesses. Nobody denies they were near the crime scene, they don't even deny that themselves, but bruises? No, the RTP would have taken pictures and would have showed the world how clever they were. The witnesses are there to support the circumstantial evidence as a back-up of the DNA.

Only one thing, and one thing only will get them of the hook, again: "independently verified DNA form the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples", and even if that could be produced it is still questionable they get off, why? Because it was DECIDED they were quilty long time ago, regardless of the evidence.

Ah yes, ALL IMHO.

[phuketandsee]

I see January 5th mentioned a lot for release of the "UK report". Do we know this for sure? I understand the inquest(s) is/are scheduled for the beginning of January (both?) but how long will it/they take and how quickly will the findings be made public?

[Alwyn]

So the indictment was moved forward so the defence and defendants couldn't be present and now this. Anybody left out there who believes this is true justice and not a fit up? Maybe after the release of the movie ordered by the Junta and featuring Hitler the Junta have taken some lessons in "<deleted> everybody and get it done"?

[jomcondo]

boycott that dirty mafia infested koh tao