Earthship feasibility

[siberianwarcat]

I have been looking at this idea on and off for several years.

Earthship Biotecture (http://earthship.com) have completed examples in tropical heat with positive feedback.

If anyone has any success in this type of eco build, including sand bag builds or adobe in Thailand or elsewhere with similar climate, I'd like to learn from your experiences.

The principle seems straight forward, environmentally and economically sound, although I do recognise that the engineering does need some adaptation from that used in Taos. I am not sure that the 'greenhouse' portion of the design needs to be built in with glass. In fact, I think that this section of the design could very easily be built within a veranda if it has to be under a roof to stop rain from inadvertently falling into it.

The main principle I like about Earthship design is the water utilisation and the ancient system for cooling the air which, here in Thailand, would seem really useful.

There was a cool 'Grand Designs Australia' which was based on the earthship principle: https://youtu.be/0c_kNnsZEcA (I know it was in Australia but it was in an area which was very hot and dry, cracked earth, combined with very wet periods).

The principle of sourcing materials seems straight forward enough too in regards to plastic and glass bottles, tyres etc. I think once I have identified the plot (as I said, this is a feasibility study) i guess just advertising that i'd buy plastic or glass bottles, or tyres, might get some informal suppliers knocking on the door. Of course, if anyone knows of a good source for wholesale second hand tyres, i'd like to hear about it.

I am looking at incorporating compressed earth bricks into my design. I understand that Startop Interlocking Block systems http://www.blockprasan.com/startop/ are the leading supplier (or most reliable) provider of the machine used for this. Obviously if anyone has any better machines, either manual or hydraulic, then please do tell me about them.

I saw elsewhere on YouTube bags of rice husks packs into the roof cavity can work as a good insulation. Not sure if this is better than fibreglass or modern equivalent, but certainly rice husks are plentiful for next to nothing.

I am also interested at determining the best mix of earth, clay and possibly elephant dung/sugar cane leaves as an adobe. Again all three ingredients are plentiful and if anyone has experience working with organic mix bricks, i'd be grateful for your feedback.

Thanks for your time.

[CharlieH]

MOVED to DIY Housing

[kannot]

You might want to think about termites setting up home in there?

[siberianwarcat]

MOVED to DIY Housing

Thanks. I did try to find the right place for this and had no luck. This area is far more appropriate.

[siberianwarcat]

You might want to think about termites setting up home in there?

Good point. I'll investigate what others have done to overcome the termite risk and paste their replies to this.

[sipi]

I have found the traditional Isaan "post and beam" houses about as environmentally friendly and as practical as can be in this climate.

Another type of construction that would work well would be the "Queenslander".

I guess they have been tried and tested over time.

[marko kok prong]

You might want to think about termites setting up home in there?

Good point. I'll investigate what others have done to overcome the termite risk and paste their replies to this.

I suggest a prespay of the ground with either bifenthrin,or fipronil,this should give 8-10 years protection from termite ingresse,also a baiting system such as sentricon/extrra around the perimeter,full marks to you for going down this route,it should be an interesting building,myself ,i love adobe homes,look as if they have grown out of the land.

[gb33]

I listen to a podcast hosted by a fella named Jack Spirco. Listen to this episode, you may get some good 1st hand knowledge.

http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/tag/earthship

[up-country_sinclair]

Looking forward to following this thread.

[canopy]

A few things to consider.

I know someone who recently wanted to do an earthship build. He found the availability of used tires to be good, but the cost to be prohibitive and ended up doing something else because of that.

One should be cautious with any high thermal mass type of building in Thailand. The nights are warm here and the stored daytime heat can make the evenings unpleasant inside. It's surprising you found some positives about the performance of earthship in the tropics. I would look for unbiased sources on this to get some second opinions. Many claim countless advantages of their alternative builds when in reality they are just thinking with their heart. Selecting the most appropriate alternative building in Thailand can be tricky. When you use straw considerations for mold and bugs need to be made. When you use lots of earthen material, thermal mass comes into play.

Exterior walls take a beating in the rainy season coupled with high winds so "a wide hat and boots" meaning a building with a long roof overhang and high stem wall won't keep the rain off. Thus, many earthen plaster formulas do not last well. Finding suitable building lime in Thailand is difficult, but possible to add durability.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Earthhomethailand.com have building workshops north of Chiang Mai in Maejo. If you google rammed earth house chiang mai all sorts of other stuff comes up. I believe there is some stuff in Pai also. Many years ago I did read about a rammed earth village near Korat. You could go and volunteer. Sorry I can't remember anything else about it. It was in the Bangkok Post years ago.

I have always had a dream about having some kind of tyre home, earthship, rammed earth home or whatever but it's always remained a dream. I would need some land first. 2 rai would be enough. 1 rai or a bit more for the kings "por pieng" plan - veg, fish pond , teak trees, fruit trees etc The other rai for some nice garden with a small BMX pump track built into it(more rammed earth).

[bbradsby]

Good comments above, but be aware that one cannot refer to Thailand's "tropical climate" as a singular beast. If you look into the Koppen climate zones, the Northern mountain climates are obviously not like the coastal Tropics, so high thermal mass may be made to work. Northeastern plains have a climate similar to the African Sahel, very dry but with heavy, seasonal monsoon rains when they do happen. Diurnal temperature ranges makes a high thermal mass building system workable - but only if high R-value ceiling insulation, great attic ventilation, and serious overhangs are designed specifically in response to sun angles, large windows oriented to utilize predominant breezes. Still, there will be nights where you'll want an A/C to take the edge off unless your fully acclimatized. These are just a primer, and good building performance requires a systems approach to design that begins at the property lines and moves in from there.

Warning about earth block or rammed earth systems - they are inherently dangerous in seismically active areas, and parts of the North and West do have some seismic activity. I've designed and constructed Pise' buildings in Seismic Zone 4 [ as seismically active as it gets] but thats steel reinforced soil-cement mix pneumatically placed. Not for beginners.

Then, wind is another lateral loading consideration. Monsoon winds in the Northeast plains can be extreme, so wall height and geometry are important considerations.

Then theres the soil selection and mix. Organic matter in the mix (dung...) weakens the mix and invites mold, mildew, bugs. And, lastly, sourcing proper non-expansive clay is critical to safety, much less success. Good luck running various, alternative soil samples to a lab in Thailand, and cost of soil import to your site if the stuff onsite isn't suitable, will be prohibitive. Has anybody found a soils map for Thailand? If so, please share a link to this Group.

After all the above considerations are solved, and you've actually verified that a simple CMU house isn't cheaper for the same thermal mass performance, a stabilized earth mix with 10% portland cement and sealer coat on the exterior should get it done. Let us know how you do, as it happens!

All the best,

[passingas]

Good advice, bbradsby....we are in a very geologically alive area, at least up here in the north. Not to mention the windage. Where I live in Phayao, we had a micro-burst (intensive, short lived, almost horizontal tornadic type wind [the last episode took out 5 of those concrete utility poles, in a row, half way up their height]) that took off our neighbors roof, but more or less, left us unscathed, about three or four years ago. Having said all of that, we did manage to build a...semi-passively cooled house for the northern tropics, taking into consideration the yearly monsoonal wind flow (at least for now)...and haven't installed any AC in the two rooms that were pre-wired for it....so far. That may very well change in the near future, as I really don't like excessive heat. We used AAC block, along with the small red bricks, with a dead airspace in between, and literally live in a Thermos style house. Account for flow through breezes and avoid compartmentalized house plans. pg

[canopy]

the Northern mountain climates are obviously not like the coastal Tropics

I am in the north. I can't imagine wanting any thermal mass that shifts heat to a later part of the day. It's a bad attribute of poorly thought out houses here. The biggest thing one can do to get a comfortable house is to start by choosing to live in an area with a cooler climate. They exist in Thailand at high altitudes for instance. Then build on that using the many techniques you describe.

Good luck running various, alternative soil samples to a lab in Thailand, and cost of soil import to your site if the stuff onsite isn't suitable, will be prohibitive

Earthen building, particularly adobe block, is widely done in Thailand by green builders. I have yet to hear any issues with on-site soil anywhere in Thailand. The key factor is to assure the silt level is not too high which can be tested by anyone with some soap water. Digging past the black/grey dirt to the orange dirt is enough to eliminate organic material. Sand is added to stabilize the mix and the correct proportion can be determined heuristically.