Where should such treasures be held? The Elgin Marbles from the Parthenon in Athens are now in the British Museum; the so-called jewels of Helen from Hissarlik in modern Turkey.... well, I'm not sure where they are.

These days, the issue is more about the Assyrian treasures from Nimrud and other sites in northern Iraq, which are being shattered by IS iconoclasts.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31941827

Who should these treasures belong to? Where should they be displayed? Or should they be hidden away somewhere where they are safe..... but nobody can see them?

Your question should have been not, Where should such treasures be held?

But, how these treasures were obtained.

Then you will have your answer.

I can only answer about the so called Elgin Marbles.

From 1801 to 1812, Elgin's agents removed about half of the surviving sculptures of the Parthenon, as well as architectural members and sculpture from the Propylaea and Erechtheum. The Marbles were transported by sea to Britain. In Britain, the acquisition of the collection was supported by some, while others likened Elgin's actions to vandalism or looting.

Following a public debate in Parliament and the subsequent exoneration of Elgin, the marbles were purchased from Elgin by the British government in 1816 and were passed to the British Museum where they stand now on display in the purpose-built Duveen Gallery.

Source Wikipedia.

So the British government purchased the marbles from a thief and given to the British Museum.

The Greeks have many times demanded for the Marbles to come back to their origin and also have build a beautiful Museum to house them at the foot of Acropolis.

Up to now we have been ignored.

But it is an ongoing debate and may be one day the marbles will be returned to Greece where they were stolen from.

Were the Marbles stolen?

They would hardly exist now from pollution if they had not been rescued. Greece can go f itself, no way will they ever be going back Nor the Benin bronzes or thousands of tonnes of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities. We can't risk Isis smashing anything else up anyway.

Your question should have been not, Where should such treasures be held?

But, how these treasures were obtained.

Then you will have your answer.

I can only answer about the so called Elgin Marbles.

From 1801 to 1812, Elgin's agents removed about half of the surviving sculptures of the Parthenon, as well as architectural members and sculpture from the Propylaea and Erechtheum. The Marbles were transported by sea to Britain. In Britain, the acquisition of the collection was supported by some, while others likened Elgin's actions to vandalism or looting.

Following a public debate in Parliament and the subsequent exoneration of Elgin, the marbles were purchased from Elgin by the British government in 1816 and were passed to the British Museum where they stand now on display in the purpose-built Duveen Gallery.

Source Wikipedia.

So the British government purchased the marbles from a thief and given to the British Museum.

The Greeks have many times demanded for the Marbles to come back to their origin and also have build a beautiful Museum to house them at the foot of Acropolis.

Up to now we have been ignored.

But it is an ongoing debate and may be one day the marbles will be returned to Greece where they were stolen from.

I think we know all this, Costas!

The museums of Europe are filled with stolen artefacts.... but the point of my question was, is it better to have the artefacts still in existence (but not in their land of origin), or left to the mercy of iconoclasts?

Of course there is another side to it. When I 'gazed upon the face of Agamemnon' in the museum at Athens, was it the real thing, or a copy? (I know that the gold death mask found by Schliemann was several hundred years earlier than Agamemnon... but that's another story).

Were the Marbles stolen?

I lost mine. Should I report it?

Were the Marbles stolen?

I lost mine. Should I report it?

I'm happy to say, Chuck, that if you'd really lost your marbles, you wouldn't be in a state to report it. I'm happy you're still with us (marbles and all).

Maybe your great country should become the repository of ALL movable antiquities from the Middle East. It's probably the safest place for them. Islamic fundamentalists have destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas, Nimrud, much of the Baghdad Museum..... what would happen if they got their hands on the antiquities of Egypt, the treasures of Tutankhamun, the mummies of the pharaohs (not only King Tut, but Rameses II and others are still with us), and all the rest?

They would hardly exist now from pollution if they had not been rescued. Greece can go f itself, no way will they ever be going back Nor the Benin bronzes or thousands of tonnes of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities. We can't risk Isis smashing anything else up anyway.

what a way to justify theft

Were the Marbles stolen?

I lost mine. Should I report it?

I'm happy to say, Chuck, that if you'd really lost your marbles, you wouldn't be in a state to report it. I'm happy you're still with us (marbles and all).

Maybe your great country should become the repository of ALL movable antiquities from the Middle East. It's probably the safest place for them. Islamic fundamentalists have destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas, Nimrud, much of the Baghdad Museum..... what would happen if they got their hands on the antiquities of Egypt, the treasures of Tutankhamun, the mummies of the pharaohs (not only King Tut, but Rameses II and others are still with us), and all the rest?

The US wouldn't be a good place...according to John McCain, ISIS is on the doorstep.

They would hardly exist now from pollution if they had not been rescued. Greece can go f itself, no way will they ever be going back Nor the Benin bronzes or thousands of tonnes of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities. We can't risk Isis smashing anything else up anyway.

what a way to justify theft

I gave a "like", but to be fair, protecting them from weather or ISIS is actually a good and honourable idea.

Perhaps Greece should ask Britain to pay for them. Obviously the Germans will not pay for WW2.

Perhaps Greece should ask Britain to pay for them. Obviously the Germans will not pay for WW2.

But we did pay for them (even Costas admits that!). I am sure it was much less that they were worth..... but then that was 150 years ago.

Were the Marbles stolen?

I lost mine. Should I report it?

I'm happy to say, Chuck, that if you'd really lost your marbles, you wouldn't be in a state to report it. I'm happy you're still with us (marbles and all).

Maybe your great country should become the repository of ALL movable antiquities from the Middle East. It's probably the safest place for them. Islamic fundamentalists have destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas, Nimrud, much of the Baghdad Museum..... what would happen if they got their hands on the antiquities of Egypt, the treasures of Tutankhamun, the mummies of the pharaohs (not only King Tut, but Rameses II and others are still with us), and all the rest?

Stolen antiquities? Have a chat to Napoleon about that - he looted Egypt of everything that wasn't nailed down.

Protection? I was part of the team that built a new extension to the museum in Tripoli, Libya. This was a UNESCO project, spending tax-payer's money. We were only responsible for the refurbishment and construction of modern premises, not for the safe-keeping of the exhibits. The museum staff, or their hired-in labour, were responsible for moving the exhibits and they damaged more than enough - Roman and Greek statuary, from Cyrene, Leptis Magna, Sabratha and other sites were lifted by men smaller than the statues, who staggered off and dropped many, to the horror of the UNESCO supervisors. We offered trolleys and mobile hoists, but were told it was outside our remit.

Now, after Cameron/Sarkozy bombed the Libyan government out of existence and thus let in the I.S. people, there is even more destruction of our heritage being destroyed in Libya, as well as the Nimrud disaster.

Our idiot politicians must learn the laws of unexpected consequences. It's not today that matters, it is the future.

I repeat, were the Marbles stolen?

And yes I know the variance in accusal and rebuttal,

Do you?

Lord Elgin was told by a local that sculptures which fell were burned to obtain lime, so he decided to salvage what he could. He removed about half the remaining sculptures with at least the tacit approval of the Turkish authorities, who ruled Greece at the time.

You can call that stolen if you like.... but if Elgin hadn't taken action, more of the sculptures would have been lost.

Is it preferable to leave antiquities to the mercies of weather, war, and simple decay, or to try and save them, albeit by transferring them to a different location?