Thai Navy petitions govt to buy submarines

[RKASA]

If you don't know how to build one - then you don't need one.

If you really needed one you would have built it some time in the last 40 years you have been asking for one.

I could have built one in that amount of time myself, but then - I didn't need one so I didn't. Must be the same reason Thailand still has not built one.

[CaptHaddock]

Why does Thailand need any military at all? It's not as though any of its neighbors have been threatening an invasion in the last 150 years.

Thailand had a lot small problems with Cambodia, Lao Myanmar in the past. You see what happens with countries with weak military in Libya, Iraq, Ukraine and you see what does not happen in countries with strong military in North Korea and Iran. Not judging who is right and who is wrong just how a strong military keeps peace.

Simplistic thinking. The strong US military certainly hasn't kept the peace, but kept us constantly at war (Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan) that profits only the arms industry. With N. Korea and Iran only nukes count for giving the Americans pause. Subs are not nukes.

[rametindallas]

the navy does not have any preference for where the submarines are manufactured, as long as they fit Thailand's needs

I asked my English-speaking Thai friend the Thai words for 'want' and 'need'. He said they were the same. 'nuff said.

[Snig27]

Why does Thailand need any military at all? It's not as though any of its neighbors have been threatening an invasion in the last 150 years.

Thailand had a lot small problems with Cambodia, Lao Myanmar in the past. You see what happens with countries with weak military in Libya, Iraq, Ukraine and you see what does not happen in countries with strong military in North Korea and Iran. Not judging who is right and who is wrong just how a strong military keeps peace.

It's had a weak military for some 7 decades. Thailand's military has been a geopolitical joke since forever. The US kept it well back from any action in Vietnam because of that.

Iraq had the 4th biggest standing armed forces in the world in the 1990s, Libya's was large too. It's not size that matters, it's competency, something that 1200 Generals won't buy you. Now about that aircraft carrier ..

[elgordo38]

What a waste of money. Having a submarine division for the last 64 years.

Its a world wide phenomenon called "keeping up with the Jones" They need them to guard the aircraft carrier when it is on patrol.

[elgordo38]

Why does Thailand need any military at all? It's not as though any of its neighbors have been threatening an invasion in the last 150 years.

The military is apparently needed to stage coups, as historically they have

done little in the way of fighting. ( well except against civilians ...) . No one

has ever used the term battle hardened and Thai military in the same sentence.

It is all a bit moot however, as Thailand signed the Treaty of Amity in the 50s whereas

if Thailand is attacked, America will come in and defend them. So instead

of wasting billions of baht on useless submarines how about helping out

some poor farmers ??

Yes the farmers do need help and you cannot eat a submarine

[elgordo38]

Looking at the photo which accompanies the original post and judging by the gold braid on their caps,there are rather a lot of senior officers in this outfit.

One wonders what they have to gain from the process of purchasing a submarine.

Something to kill the boredom.

[elgordo38]

This is just the start. Wait for the Airforce bid to come in : .....fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars, let me see what spring is like on Jupiter and Mars....

They want a space program too? Need more tourists to pay for that.

[Ricardo]

Why does Thailand need any military at all? It's not as though any of its neighbors have been threatening an invasion in the last 150 years.

Thailand's then-new fleet of four submarines proved ineffectual, when Japan invaded them on 8th December 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand

This was despite their being intended primarily for coastal-defence !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matchanu-class_submarine

They were also useless during the Franco-Thai war :-

"The navy was mobilised to protect Thailand's territorial waters, and the submarines conducted reconnaissance in the Gulf of Thailand. However, they were unable to prevent a surprise French naval raid, which resulted in heavy Thai naval losses at the Battle of Ko Chang on 17 January 1941".

So while Thailand has indeed been invaded, submarines were not the answer, perhaps a few more patrol-boats and the will to use them might be of some use in fishing-protection and monitoring slavery onboard Thai-owned/based fishing-boats ?

Time to scrap the submarine training-base, and the submarine-division, and use the limited government-funds productively instead !

Pork-barrels don't help protect the country, or defend its interests internationally, nor going on the evidence do submarines.

[NongKhaiKid]

A branch of the military asking for new toys and they do have a whole load of submariners sitting behind desks and raring to go.

I'm sure the request will be turned down out of hand as the money is needed for more important things like bike lanes.

[willyumiii]

I am glad to see they are making progress on this.

Next they can start on the snowmobile division for the Thai Army.

With climate change and all, it may come in handy some day.

Who can say?

[NongKhaiKid]

I am glad to see they are making progress on this.

Next they can start on the snowmobile division for the Thai Army.

With climate change and all, it may come in handy some day.

Who can say?

What's the bet that in the future some bright spark will suggest they might have a role to play during rainy season flooding ?

[davehowden]

But, but, the Vietnamese have got one Sir!!

[NongKhaiKid]

But, but, the Vietnamese have got one Sir!!

That says it all and that's what it's all about especially with the AEC just around the corner. FACE !

[sirineou]

I dont know why they need to buy submarines, The way they operate their surface ships, soon most of them will become submarines

[samsensam]

Why does Thailand need any military at all? It's not as though any of its neighbors have been threatening an invasion in the last 150 years.

OP if you have a moment update yourself on current affairs in the south of thailand.

and who would sort out the street protests? the police?!

[Ace of Pop]

Jet Skies are the best way to defend the Nation from invaders

[klauskunkel]

For 64 years these guys needed not to lift a finger...do you really, really want a sub?

[DoctorG]

These guys need to be careful as some gov person might actually ask why there is a need for a submarine division hanging around doing nothing.

[RKASA]

During the 80's in order to reduce spending it was decided that any purchases made would require a statement as to what it is for, and the result of not having it. They came to be known as the 'statements of incrediable need'.

As SOP (standard operating preceedure) the last line of what became just rubber stamped copies of the first was always the line.

"Failure to acuire will result in total mission failure".

It soon became obviouse to many of use that the main mission was to spend money.

[PilotEd]

It is obvious from earlier replies that the consensus is: Please tell us why Thailand needs submarines other than to keep up with the neighbors. What enemy does Thailand have or potentially have where a sub force would be helpful. This is nothing more than an excuse to spend money that can be used much better elsewhere. Hopefully not on the military at all.

[recycler]

Thailand‘s navy acknowledged that it had dropped plans to purchase four second-hand German submarines for an estimated 7.6 billion baht (250,000 dollars). "The deadline for the purchase has passed (on February 29) ... and the navy will not seek to keep the buying option," Navy Chief Admiral Surasak Runroengrom told The Nation newspaper 12 March 2012. Defence Minister Sukumpol Suwanatat had reportedly nixed the deal after several reviews of the navy‘s submarine purchase plan.

Reason: The Germans told Thailand's navy that submarines need maintenance and that was bit of shock for the generals ;-)

[wabothai]

They want to get their bids in before the government turns "democratic".

Has anybody heard of any official reasoning behind the need for submarines other than a toy for the 64 boys?

[Expat1]

No they need a submarine. If no other reason to keep up with the Joneses. Hell, they already have the Dept set up for it, buying the damned thing is the easy part. Now they could do what the Indos did and buy old refurbished East German subs and then upon hand over and delivery promptly drive them into the ocean floor off of France. A modern military sub is possibly the most complex machine built and operated today. One needs some serious skills, knowledge and training to operate it though. Of course, we are assuming we a not talking about the Thais getting an Akula or Virginia Class sub but a small littoral type sub of which there a number of good ones around. The new Jap one is possible (the Aussies are looking at it) and Taiwan is building theirs now. These are small, quiet, minimal crewing and made for shallow water and not overly expensive in comparative military equipment terms. It will be interesting to see what they do but it is a great loss of face for them not to have any and little Singapore has multiple. This can not be allowed here. Trust me.

[Soutpeel]

Thailand‘s navy acknowledged that it had dropped plans to purchase four second-hand German submarines for an estimated 7.6 billion baht (250,000 dollars). "The deadline for the purchase has passed (on February 29) ... and the navy will not seek to keep the buying option," Navy Chief Admiral Surasak Runroengrom told The Nation newspaper 12 March 2012. Defence Minister Sukumpol Suwanatat had reportedly nixed the deal after several reviews of the navy‘s submarine purchase plan.

Reason: The Germans told Thailand's navy that submarines need maintenance and that was bit of shock for the generals ;-)

estimated 7.6 billion baht (250,000 dollars).

....may be check your exchange rates, I know the THB is getting stronger, but at this exchange rate, the pensioners in Thailand will be bricking themselves and balcony diving

[bobbymack]

Is it me or is this just sheer coincidence that after 64 years they suddenly need a submarine or two? Is some small yellow chap pulling their strings?

I will look forward to reading the cost basis analysis report.

The Thais never do "cost-benefit analysis" on anything. Only today is important

[chooka]

Hilarious, they have had a submarine division for the last 64 years with no subs. Where did the submariners do thier training, in cardboard box? You have all these admirals and men sitting in inactive posts And they hadn't even stuffed up.

[bobbymack]

In asking for the subs it would be amusing to hear the Navy's reasoning for them and what they would put forward to the public accounts committee as to why they are necessary and to spend vast amounts of public money on them.

[emilymat]

I can't tell from the OP photo, but I would bet you the majority of those assembled have parachute 'wings' on their uniforms.

I suppose you had to do something for the last 40 years or so.

[Kerryd]

They would be far better off with purchasing some Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Corvettes and Coastal Patrol Vessels (CPVs) which would also be useful for other things (like drug and smuggling interdiction patrols, search and rescue). There are various types of ships with displacements under 3,000 tons that offer not only ASW but also have anti-ship, air defense, and mine laying capabilities (as well as shore bombardment).

These kinds of ships would be considerably more useful in the shallower gulf areas, as well as in the coastal regions of the west (Andaman sea) where they could manoeuvre in/around the islands much easier.

Considering as well that, depending on size and capabilities, you could get 2-3(+) Corvettes or 4-6(+) Fast Attack Craft for the price of one (used) submarine. (An "improved" Kilo Class SSK sells for about $365 mill US it seems. New boats tend to go for $500 mil each at a minimum. That's a lot of frozen chicken, even for Thailand !)

Take the lesson that Canada had to learn (the hard way of course) when they bought the 4 (used) subs from Britain. 4 subs for $750 million sounded like a great deal, especially as they were all only 6-12 years old !

However, they'd been decommissioned and sitting (in the water) virtually unmaintained for almost 4 years when Canada bought them. Since then Canada has spent billions on upgrades and repairs and has a grand total of ONE operational boat (with possible one more ready this year, maybe, if it passes it's latest sea trials). A very expensive lesson.

But then again, what's the point of having a national Submarine Day holiday (Sept 4) unless you have submarines ? May as well buy some or risk someone deciding that it shouldn't be a holiday any more !!