Pentagon chief criticises Beijing's South China Sea moves

[impulse]

I usually avoid saber-rattling, but the comandeering of those islands by China is so blatantly a land-grab, that the bullies must be put in their place.

The scariest part of their stance is that they didn't lay claim to any of that area until they had the military strength to force home the claim.

Then, suddenly, the area was "indisputably" Chinese territory based on some obscure and ancient maps, and contrary to all international conventions.

If they are allowed to claim that territory, what's next as their military strength grows?

As I've mentioned before, there are ancient maps showing Bangkok as an important port for Chinese traders. Could their next claim include Bangkok, or Singapore? Of course, they'd have no standing based on international law, only the military option and some cooked up rationalization based on some historic presence centuries ago.

[NeverSure]

Just what we need another War to keep the Military Industrial Complex Going

Dont worry about the people starving always more money for War

[Publicus]

This South China Sea focus is marking the beginning of Cold War II.

Beijing means to change the SCS from an international waterway into a Chinese lake, which the region and its trading and security partners reject outright.

Beijing is not going to quit on this because there is no compromise in the CCP and the CCP is leading China to regain its lost and faded historical destiny. So when Washington decided to go in on this, it knew it absolutely had to go all in. So Washington is not going to budge either.

As the CCP's economy continues to fizzle there continues to be fewer reasons to justify working relations or cordial interactions for either side. It won't be the USSR against the United States, but it will be hostile, openly hostile.

When the Boyz do go ahead to declare their Air Defense Identification Zone over their new Chinese lake, it will have the effect in the region and on the world of the East Germans building the Berlin Wall, i.e., a dividing line between the free and the imprisoned,

Five Trillion dollars of commerce traverses the SCS annually, to include ME oil to Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Philippines....indeed, virtually all of Asean.

There's no backing down for either side.

Cold War 2.0 It will start with some real heat however limited the heat may be.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Publicus

[gazzasore]

You have to ask yourself

Do the people of the World want war

Or is it the leaders of the world want war

[lovetotravel]

Funny I see everyone saying we have more them They don't stand a chance Always blaming the other side

I dont see anyone coming up with ideas to defuse the situation

It's really easy. China should leave. The closest nation is the Philippines with Palawan island. China is a long way away. The island chain was designated part of the Philippines back in 1982 by the UN. But there are issues around this which the Chinese are exploiting with their military might.

http://www.academia.edu/1390813/Philippines_ownership_to_Spratly_Island

[smedly]

Numbers mean nothing in modern warfare - Technology rules every time, like shooting fish in a barrel, the more fish the harder it is to miss

Right, the Gulf War 1 was proof of that. The Iraqis had been digging in for months. They had hundreds of top-shelf Russian tanks. Once the Americans started turning tracks, the Iraqi forces evaporated. How many US tanks were hit? Zero.

It is up to the Philippines to make the initial attack. The US will back them, and back them in a big way, but it is not a US problem until one of the alliance members has been attacked.

Somewhat on the mark. I picture a US carrier group nearby, and the Phils doing the landings. It's doubtful the Chinese navy will do much in response, other than send out a few jets (and a lot of hot air rhetoric for the teeming masses). Speaking of Chinese fighter jets: the best they have are poor copies of 20 yr old American fighters. Their latest copies weren't even deemed good enough for the Chinese AF, and were instead sold to other countries.

I usually avoid saber-rattling, but the comandeering of those islands by China is so blatantly a land-grab, that the bullies must be put in their place. To me it's nearly akin to the Cuban missile crisis - in the sense that the US has to take dynamic action now. The longer the US and its allies procrastinate, the longer China will have to set up infrastructure on the little islands. Just in the past few years, the islands have gone from rock outcrops, to sand covered landing strips, to barracks, ports, lighthouses, bunkers with guns. What's next, a docking port for submarines? Normandy-type bunkers with 1.5 meter thick walls of hardened concrete? It's no joking matter. The Chinese need their butts spanked - the sooner the better.

Right, the Gulf War 1 was proof of that. The Iraqis had been digging in for months. They had hundreds of top-shelf Russian tanks. Once the Americans started turning tracks, the Iraqi forces evaporated. How many US tanks were hit? Zero.

They were not equipped with top of the range Russian hardware but not far off it, but lets expand your thoughts a little and include air power - ground vehicles - logistics - strategic planning etc etc, the Russians had been spending something like 80% of their national budget on defence and military hardware for years while the people suffered hardship, when they saw their prided military hardware get swept to the side and trashed in a very one sided conflict they realised they had been accumulating a pile of worthless junk, in a conflict with the west the military might they thought they had was basically rendered useless in Iraq for all the world to see, shortly after that we saw the break up of the USSR and the dismantling of the Berlin wall, Naval harbours turned to junk overnight and the whole place imploded................technology wins blink and you'll miss it

Most of the recent conflicts have been odd ones were you can't really describe them as war in the true sense of the word, they have been more like the removal of certain elements within a country where a considerable portion of the population are not involved, a modern all out war with another country would be something entirely different - no friendlies - you go to war with China and you are at war with all of it and the same could be said going the other way - when was the last time the USA had foreign bombers dropping payloads on US soil

TBH a couple of subs in the South China sea would be enough to keep the Chinese navy in port so the only threat would be from the air

[Srikcir]

The Boyz in Beijing have no support in the region for their arbitrary claims in the South China Sea and for the expected military bases that would appear there.

Last week Australia PM Tony Abbott confirmed USAF B-1 stealth bombers will be stationed on Australian soil, outside of Darwin. Yet the CCP Boyz continue to believe they can manipulate and intimidate Australia over to their side, which indicates the delusions the Boyz have in Beijing.

The CCP Boyz also think they can take control of the South China Sea and do it without ever firing a shot, which are yet more delusions.

I say let Japan and Vietnam solve this problem alone this will teach them to love us Americans even more

Too late cause it's already begun. Vietnam is anyway too small and Japan has its own CCP-created headaches in the East Sea over the Senakaku Islands. So it's game on.

The PLA has been unsuccessful trying to crash USAF Global Hawk surveillance drones over the Paracels Islands by electronic jamming. The Boyz in Beijing wanted to bring down one or more Global Hawks in shallow waters to recover it. Still empty handed however.

Beijing is now saying it can sever communications between the Global Hawks and their satellites but there's no evidence this has occurred.

The Boyz say they can use high tech cyber warfare to take control of Global Hawks away from the US military but there's no evidence of this occurring either. Don't know if the Hawks are still operating over the CCP's new islands but we do know last week the Pentagon sent the P8-A Poseidon Navy surveillance craft to start cruising the area.

The Pentagon also last week sent the new and high tech USS Fort Worth littoral combat ship past the islands which led to some cat and mouse in the area involving the PLANavy and the PLA Air Force, USN, USAF, but also a lot of countiries' navies and air forces tracking and looking in.

Beijing has no friends in this, no allies, no support. None. No one.

Don't count General Prayut out too soon. He signed a mutual security agreement with China in 2014 that the Chinese might just call on the Junta's support.

[EnglishJohn]

People seem to Forget John Kerry and President Obama and women Generals and Admirals

and even the Farm Boys who father fought in World War II will not fight for Japan Vietnam Korea again

Let China have them

Remember Eastern Europe after World War II Russia control them and loss them

You cannot control other countries

I think it depends on how far the guy in charge is prepared to go to keep his power. The USA are less and less willing to get involved because the media play right into the hands of their enemies and give the rest of the world a distorted picture. ISIS can murder 100 people in cold blood in the most barbaric way possible without a line in a newspaper, but if a drone strike kills some civilians by accident it is all over the news. The gullible masses think the USA is murdering people who did nothing wrong.

If Russia had machine-gunned whoever started to take the Berlin Wall down, history would have been very different.

What would China do in a similar situation ?. I hope we never find out - but North Korea gives us a clue at how ruthless a state can be to keep everyone in check.

[impulse]

Don't count General Prayut out too soon. He signed a mutual security agreement with China in 2014 that the Chinese might just call on the Junta's support.

But when it comes time for the nut cutting, the Thai ambassador to the USA won't deliver the declaration of war.

Again.

[Credo]

Don't count General Prayut out too soon. He signed a mutual security agreement with China in 2014 that the Chinese might just call on the Junta's support.

But when it comes time for the nut cutting, the Thai ambassador to the USA won't deliver the declaration of war.

Again.

The decision that the Thai gov't will have to make is whether they wish to live up to their commitment to an ASEAN partner. If not, they might want to deliver the declaration of war to the Philippines......or they can dither around and place both sides and hope everybody forgets after it is all over.

[F430murci]

The Boyz in Beijing have no support in the region for their arbitrary claims in the South China Sea and for the expected military bases that would appear there.

Last week Australia PM Tony Abbott confirmed USAF B-1 stealth bombers will be stationed on Australian soil, outside of Darwin. Yet the CCP Boyz continue to believe they can manipulate and intimidate Australia over to their side, which indicates the delusions the Boyz have in Beijing.

The CCP Boyz also think they can take control of the South China Sea and do it without ever firing a shot, which are yet more delusions.

Australia said- lol

Tony Abbott- lmao

And who is going to stop China? Mighty US of A?

As usual we have "evidence" but will not show it

Just like Iraq , and the rest of US bombing playgrounds.

Lol, here cones background noise. All rhetorica and rarely speaks in any facts whatsoever.

There is no US versus China mentality in US or in China. There will be no war. There will be no stand off.

Lootr can make his pop corn, but it will be long gone before anything happens. Kind of sad that a millitary stand off between world powers make someone excited or be considered entertainment.

Love to Travell is correct. China has many people, but its technology is a complete joke. Laughable considering how much time they spend hacking and stealing others' ideas. One would think a country of that size would have more innovation ability.

[Jingthing]

As an American who has a bias that American power is a good thing relative to the alternatives, this is all getting rather concerning. So many potential "fronts" to worry about. The South China Sea. Russia - Ukraine, etc.

The Middle East. It seems to be slipping into something really unmanageable.

[ggt]

If those critical of China's South China Sea moves would just be patient...the first cyclone or tsunami will wash away all that sand and return the area to the sea...

[F430murci]

The Boyz in Beijing have no support in the region for their arbitrary claims in the South China Sea and for the expected military bases that would appear there.

Last week Australia PM Tony Abbott confirmed USAF B-1 stealth bombers will be stationed on Australian soil, outside of Darwin. Yet the CCP Boyz continue to believe they can manipulate and intimidate Australia over to their side, which indicates the delusions the Boyz have in Beijing.

The CCP Boyz also think they can take control of the South China Sea and do it without ever firing a shot, which are yet more delusions.

Australia said- lol

Tony Abbott- lmao

And who is going to stop China? Mighty US of A?

As usual we have "evidence" but will not show it

Just like Iraq , and the rest of US bombing playgrounds.

Lol, here cones background noise. All rhetorica and rarely speaks in any facts whatsoever.

There is no US versus China mentality in US or in China. There will be no war. There will be no stand off.

Lootr can make his pop corn, but it will be long gone before anything happens. Kind of sad that a millitary stand off between world powers make someone excited or be considered entertainment.

Love to Travell is correct. China has many people, but its technology is a complete joke. Laughable considering how much time they spend hacking and stealing others' ideas. One would think a country of that size would have more innovation ability.

As noted above, numbers don't mean anything when your technology sucks. For example, Iraq, North Korea and Russia 16+ years ago.

[boomerangutang]

I usually avoid saber-rattling, but the comandeering of those islands by China is so blatantly a land-grab, that the bullies must be put in their place.

The scariest part of their stance is that they didn't lay claim to any of that area until they had the military strength to force home the claim.

Then, suddenly, the area was "indisputably" Chinese territory based on some obscure and ancient maps, and contrary to all international conventions.

If they are allowed to claim that territory, what's next as their military strength grows?

As I've mentioned before, there are ancient maps showing Bangkok as an important port for Chinese traders. Could their next claim include Bangkok, or Singapore? Of course, they'd have no standing based on international law, only the military option and some cooked up rationalization based on some historic presence centuries ago.

Thailand is already in the pocket of the Chinese politburo - and the strings are being cinched tighter month by month.

You have to ask yourself

Do the people of the World want war

Or is it the leaders of the world want war

No one wants war. But no one (except perhaps the herd-mentality Chinese) like to see blatant land-grabs. Sometimes war breaks out. Sad, but true. If we avoid war in every instance, then Europe might be run by the Nazi party with a grandson of Hitler at the helm, and most of Asia would be provinces of Japan. and bowing to their royal family.

There are two other big reasons why there's hesitation to call China on its bully tactics, besides fear of their military prowess. They are: fear of their financial might. Already, they've reneged on deals to buy tons of Philippine bananas, and that could just be an opening act. Secondly, is the world's fears of what Chinese could do if they got collectively angry and launched a plethora of digital attacks. Look what N.Korea did to Sony Corp when their Great Leader got offended by a satirical movie. Multiply that by 5,000, and the effects (particularly on US corporations) could be significant. Not just US corps, but also impacts on American individuals. I imagine if there was a digital slap fight between China and the US, China would come out the winner, mainly because there are so many of them, and their collective vindictiveness would know no bounds.

Edited May 31, 2015 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

News Flash. This just in!!! The US lays claim to Trinidad and Tobago. Obama tells other countries to 'like it or lump it'. You got a problem with the US building military bases on those islands? Well, tough tamales. Make enough of a fuss, and Uncle Sam just might park a carrier group up along your shoreline.

[Publicus]

If those critical of China's South China Sea moves would just be patient...the first cyclone or tsunami will wash away all that sand and return the area to the sea...

A Chinese dissident revealed! . Regardless, the CCP does teach the PRChinese to be patient, that their time will come a grain of sand at a time, until one day there will be a mountain of sand strengthened by steel.

So either you are a PRChinese dissident urging patience but in the interest of letting nature take its course to ease this international dispute, or the point of view might also be found with the Pentagon's weather warriors (which have no formal office, titles, commanders).

The PRChinese are still blaming the Pentagon for the Sichuan earthquake of 2008 and for other earthquakes, typhoons, floods, droughts, and also hanging toenails besides.

All the same however, the point is well taken....

“Owning the Weather” for Military Use

May 18, 2015

Rarely acknowledged in the debate on global climate change, the world’s weather can now be modified as part of a new generation of sophisticated electromagnetic weapons. Both the US and Russia have developed capabilities to manipulate the climate for military use.

The US military has developed advanced capabilities that enable it selectively to alter weather patterns. The technology, which was developed under the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP), is an appendage of the Strategic Defense Initiative – ‘Star Wars’. From a military standpoint, HAARP is is a weapon of mass destruction, operating from the outer atmosphere and capable of destabilising agricultural and ecological systems around the world.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ultimate-weapon-of-mass-destruction-owning-the-weather-for-military-use-2/5306386

[Publicus]

The Boyz in Beijing have no support in the region for their arbitrary claims in the South China Sea and for the expected military bases that would appear there.

Last week Australia PM Tony Abbott confirmed USAF B-1 stealth bombers will be stationed on Australian soil, outside of Darwin. Yet the CCP Boyz continue to believe they can manipulate and intimidate Australia over to their side, which indicates the delusions the Boyz have in Beijing.

The CCP Boyz also think they can take control of the South China Sea and do it without ever firing a shot, which are yet more delusions.

I say let Japan and Vietnam solve this problem alone this will teach them to love us Americans even more

Too late cause it's already begun. Vietnam is anyway too small and Japan has its own CCP-created headaches in the East Sea over the Senakaku Islands. So it's game on.

The PLA has been unsuccessful trying to crash USAF Global Hawk surveillance drones over the Paracels Islands by electronic jamming. The Boyz in Beijing wanted to bring down one or more Global Hawks in shallow waters to recover it. Still empty handed however.

Beijing is now saying it can sever communications between the Global Hawks and their satellites but there's no evidence this has occurred.

The Boyz say they can use high tech cyber warfare to take control of Global Hawks away from the US military but there's no evidence of this occurring either. Don't know if the Hawks are still operating over the CCP's new islands but we do know last week the Pentagon sent the P8-A Poseidon Navy surveillance craft to start cruising the area.

The Pentagon also last week sent the new and high tech USS Fort Worth littoral combat ship past the islands which led to some cat and mouse in the area involving the PLANavy and the PLA Air Force, USN, USAF, but also a lot of countiries' navies and air forces tracking and looking in.

Beijing has no friends in this, no allies, no support. None. No one.

Don't count General Prayut out too soon. He signed a mutual security agreement with China in 2014 that the Chinese might just call on the Junta's support.

Thai Bangkok elites want to put distance between themselves and the USA due to issues such as democracy and human rights, but Thailand has no dog in this fight, i.e., nothing Thai is in territorial dispute against Beijing, nor is Thailand vested either way in the outcome of a confrontation or a clash.

As with the others of Asean not directly in the several territorial disputes with Beijing, Thailand will stand aside to side with neither. The Bangkok elites want to visibly stand off from the US but they do not want to take any sides against it. Behind the scenes activity is easy to know too so that has its limits.

Asean is concerned about Beijing in the SCS not about the US in the region, and neither can Bangkok get too far out and away from Asean.

Beijing expects nothing from anyone besides, and the CCP Boyz are content to act unilaterally no matter what. Beijing might yank Bangkok's string on a UN vote or an Asean conference, but that would be about it. No ships, planes, supplies, or any kind of hardware or personnel support. Beijing does not want or need anyone else, not now, not ever. China is being China and it doesn't need anyone's assistance or advice to do that.

[boomerangutang]

I don't agree that Bkk power brokers will entirely stand aside. They will try to remain aloof and put on airs of wisdom, but if compelled to pick a side, They will side with China. The reasons are simple: Most of Thai business-owners and most politicians/army brass are Chinese descent. Also: since Asians worship money, and China has lots of money now, it's a no-brainer which side the Thais will ally themselves with - if forced to make a choice.

China carries big carrots and big sticks. The carrots for Thailand include the infrastructure activity including the proposed rail lines (which will come back to bite Thailand on the ass in upcoming decades). The stick is economic sanctions / cyber attacks, and possibly less Chinese tourists.

Even if Thailand wanted to do the right thing and side with their Phil brethren, it couldn't. It's already too beholden to Chinese dominance.

[Credo]

They will never chose a side. They will dither and dither and chose both sides and play one against the other.

Thailand is only concerned about Thailand. The Chinese, however, will see through this and there will be repercussions.

[smedly]

The Boyz in Beijing have no support in the region for their arbitrary claims in the South China Sea and for the expected military bases that would appear there.

Last week Australia PM Tony Abbott confirmed USAF B-1 stealth bombers will be stationed on Australian soil, outside of Darwin. Yet the CCP Boyz continue to believe they can manipulate and intimidate Australia over to their side, which indicates the delusions the Boyz have in Beijing.

The CCP Boyz also think they can take control of the South China Sea and do it without ever firing a shot, which are yet more delusions.

China will take control eventually.

None of the locals can do anything about it and the US is a distant and fading superpower.

..and there won't be a WW3...not now or ever.

Btw...how did the US acquire its land?...or Australia?

why do you think China will take control ? I don't agree

The US will back the locals - they need to keep a large footprint in the region

How the US or any other country acquired land has nothing to do with this, this is about sovereign territory of already internationally recognised small countries being invaded by a bully who thinks they can

Some have made many strange arguments about this issue like the UK and the Fauklands - if the people living on the Faukland Islands did not want to remain British then they no longer would, if there was nobody living on the Islands they would have been handed to Argentina a long time ago

This south China sea debacle is about largely uninhabited Islands that are situated in the territorial waters Internationally recognised as belong to the countries they are closest too - China is trying to bully their way in, there are many bullies active in the world right now - Russia - ISIS - some in Africa to name a few

Edited June 1, 2015 by smedly

[Publicus]

China is looking for Lebensraum.

..and they have the money and the force to acquire it.

I am just being pragmatist.

Justice was never in the minds of great powers.

..nor it is in America's mind.

The power is moving east and they better learn to live with it.

CCP Boyz in Beijing have already identified the lebensraum they'd set out to find and they do indeed need lebensraum, they just don't use the word publicly as you'd know.

They figure they can irrigate Australia-NZ to get 100 million there, after culling the local population of course. The Chinese think big you know.

They figure 200m into South America, another 200m into Africa, culling the locals there also.

Continental USA will easily accommodate another 300m after reducing the population of Americans themselves, perhaps upwards of 500m to include Canada, Mexico.

PRChinese are being encouraged all the time to learn Latino Spanish for instance, and many do. There's a large Chinese population in South America now speaking Latino Spanish. There's a swarm of 'em in Panama and still arriving, where Beijing figures after another generation the Boyz can have control of the Canal or effective control of it.

It's not a question of the power moving anywhere as much as it's the CCP Boyz plans and designs to spread themselves throughout the world in the spirit of being the Middle/Central Kingdom. Start small at some reefs in a nearby sea and work outward from there, one could say...do it the old fashioned way.

[boomerangutang]

I'm writing a sci-fi story about digital devices taking over the world. Publicus' post, above, is almost as good a story. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I get a kick out of how he tells it. This planet started running out of good real estate about 200 years ago. I guess from here on out, it will be scrap fights for what's left. I wouldn't be surprised, if I could come back in a time machine in the year 2180, that there would be Chinese faces inhabiting every corner of the planet, including Antarctica, where it might be warm enough to grow victory gardens. If you like end-on-end Chinese-style concrete apartment complexes and malls, stretching beyond the horizon in every direction, then you'll like the future.

[smedly]

I'm writing a sci-fi story about digital devices taking over the world. Publicus' post, above, is almost as good a story. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I get a kick out of how he tells it. This planet started running out of good real estate about 200 years ago. I guess from here on out, it will be scrap fights for what's left. I wouldn't be surprised, if I could come back in a time machine in the year 2180, that there would be Chinese faces inhabiting every corner of the planet, including Antarctica, where it might be warm enough to grow victory gardens. If you like end-on-end Chinese-style concrete apartment complexes and malls, stretching beyond the horizon in every direction, then you'll like the future.

mate no disrespect meant but you are either smoking something or watching way too much TV, one of the challenges for a lot of people recently is understanding and recognising the difference between fiction and reality, unfortunately many cannot see beyond the xbox, it is not real mate - take a walk outside and leave the controller inside...........nothing wrong with dreaming but you need to realise that scotty is not going to beam you up anywhere and I mean never going to happen, and by the way we will never travel light years either - all just fantasy and wishful thinking - almost like we have a god....show me

Enjoy - have the fantasy and imagination - but understand that is all it is

Now back to topic - China is probing and poking, they have no real interest in the area they are trying to claim - everybody knows it is nonsense but they will keep trying to see where the limit is, they will at some point push too far and end up having to retract that injured probing finger with the tip missing, watch and see

Now adding a little more to the conversation - I think the world is very close to imploding - we will see major conflict in the next 5 years on a scale similar or beyond to that of WW11, history shows us that man cannot be peaceful

[Publicus]

A story-teller I'm not so I'll only say that five will get you ten the CCP Boyz don't get in to or out of the South China Sea.

Also be aware it's Russia today, China tomorrow and bye-bye Brics. The five countries most in need of structural market reforms are Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.

The Boyz can have Africa but only because no one else wants it, South America is being addressed equally as quietly as Beijing is tip-toeing there.

One step at a time does it and the timing of which steps to take, where and why are the crucial components of success.

The CCP Boyz thrive on the culturally rooted idea they will take a quiet and steady control of the SCS without firing a shot. They fail however to recognize they can lose without a shot ever being fired, or that that has in fact begun to occur. We're in the 21st century which in this confrontation means nobody is inscrutable, if anyone ever was in fact unknowable.

Many people need to recognize the fact.

Crucial sea lanes pass through the South China Sea, carrying a substantial portion of the world’s commerce. For U.S. leaders, that body of water is important both economically and strategically. As the world’s leading naval power and economic leader, the United States is not about to countenance an effort to convert the South China Sea into a de facto Chinese lake.

An explicit assertion of American interest in the area came early in the Obama administration, highlighted by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s speech to a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in July 2010.

Washington’s rhetorical involvement in the South China Sea issue coincided with the announcement of the strategic “pivot” or “rebalancing” of U.S. military forces to establish a stronger presence in East Asia

https://counterinformation.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/is-america-about-to-make-a-fatal-mistake-in-the-south-china-sea/

Edited June 1, 2015 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

Now back to topic - China is probing and poking, they have no real interest in the area they are trying to claim - everybody knows it is nonsense but they will keep trying to see where the limit is, they will at some point push too far and end up having to retract that injured probing finger with the tip missing, watch and see

Now adding a little more to the conversation - I think the world is very close to imploding - we will see major conflict in the next 5 years on a scale similar or beyond to that of WW11, history shows us that man cannot be peaceful

I agree with most of what you mention, but take exception to the part which I enlarged the font. Every land grab that China has done or is in the process of implementing is very serious business for the Chinese. Watch what happens if there's any tangible resistance to their land grab of the Philippine islands: China will go ballistic, literally. Not only will their navy get posted to the scene, but Chinese citizens will go apeshit with digital attacks like a tsunami - mostly aimed at US interests.

Note: 2,000 acres of Philippine islands have thus far been covered with sand by the Chinese. And all of that in the past 18 months! I'll say it again: dynamic action needs to happen NOW. Diplomats are calling it the 'sliced salomy affect' ...China exerting its dominance little by little. I equate it with a 900 lb sumo wrestler who leans on his his smaller opponent. He's not punching and he's not in a hurry, but the sheer weight and persistence will force his opponent to the ground (to be smothered) eventually.

It's similar to China's policy with Thailand. Little by little (take over businesses, properties, railroad, highways, etc...) and someday in the future, our Thai grandkids will open their eyes and realize China has essentially taken over.

[smedly]

here is a real funny story on another news topic on TVF that made me think of this thread

Brits to face criminal charges for making illegal documentary in Indonesia

BANGKOK: -- Two British nationals are facing criminal charges for making a documentary about piracy on the Malacca Straits without proper documents, The Jakarta Post reported.

so these Brits are going to court because they were at sea making a film and yet the Chinese are building Islands and doing as they please in Indonesia territorial waters unhindered - kinda makes me laugh

[RickBradford]

China, like Putin's Russia and North Korea (and FIFA's Blatter), is a bully.

When they're threatened, they bluster; they despise the weak, and they negotiate from the viewpoint of a zero-sum game (if you win, that must mean I have lost).

Unfortunately, the West nowadays treats international diplomacy like some kind of encounter group, instead of realising that the only thing that bullies respect is force.

[Publicus]

Now back to topic - China is probing and poking, they have no real interest in the area they are trying to claim - everybody knows it is nonsense but they will keep trying to see where the limit is, they will at some point push too far and end up having to retract that injured probing finger with the tip missing, watch and see

Now adding a little more to the conversation - I think the world is very close to imploding - we will see major conflict in the next 5 years on a scale similar or beyond to that of WW11, history shows us that man cannot be peaceful

I agree with most of what you mention, but take exception to the part which I enlarged the font. Every land grab that China has done or is in the process of implementing is very serious business for the Chinese. Watch what happens if there's any tangible resistance to their land grab of the Philippine islands: China will go ballistic, literally. Not only will their navy get posted to the scene, but Chinese citizens will go apeshit with digital attacks like a tsunami - mostly aimed at US interests.

Note: 2,000 acres of Philippine islands have thus far been covered with sand by the Chinese. And all of that in the past 18 months! I'll say it again: dynamic action needs to happen NOW. Diplomats are calling it the 'sliced salomy affect' ...China exerting its dominance little by little. I equate it with a 900 lb sumo wrestler who leans on his his smaller opponent. He's not punching and he's not in a hurry, but the sheer weight and persistence will force his opponent to the ground (to be smothered) eventually.

It's similar to China's policy with Thailand. Little by little (take over businesses, properties, railroad, highways, etc...) and someday in the future, our Thai grandkids will open their eyes and realize China has essentially taken over.

Indeed the poster you quoted is wrong about the SCS because it is indisputable the CCP Boyz in Beijing want possession and control of the South China Sea. There are a number of reasons, but becoming something more of a regional power is a central part of it, although that starts to spill over into global sea lanes of trade and other commerce and security too..

While Beijing is the only one drawing lines and the CCP Boyz are operating close to home, the Boyz still have to use maritime, Naval and Air Force assets that are ill prepared to carry this through. The ships, equipment, personnel and their training, leaders and commanders, technologies etc and the fact their direct opponent is the United States puts the CCP's military and other maritime forces at a decided disadvantage, to say the least of it.

At this point in the early stages of the SCS incipient saga the brass at the Pentagon know better what the CCP Boyz will do as their next trick than the Boyz themselves know. The Chinese culture from ancient times to the present is well known and appreciated and the nature of the communist authoritarian mind is well known too. That's two strikes against 'em before they ever step up to the plate.

Nothing wrong with the Chinese sharing in the SCS or the East Sea with Japan, or populating around the world. The problem starts when the CCP sets out to do it and convinces a billion PRChinese it's their manifest destiny, to include eliminating anyone that will/must stand in the way.

[h90]

The Pentagon BoyZ seem to be stretched a bit thin in the region... Think I'll make some popcorn and wait for the fireworks...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-naval-abilities-test-asias-insecurities-1432724142

China’s Naval Abilities Test Asia’s InsecuritiesBeijing plans to expand naval operations at a time of rising regional tension

By

TREFOR MOSS

Updated May 27, 2015 11:14 a.m. ET

China’s promise to beef up its navy to prevent further “meddling” and “provocative actions” by rivals in the South China Sea is a daunting prospect for many of its neighbors, which already view Beijing’s fast-improving armed forces with trepidations.

Could this be just what's deployed in Asia? For instance the US has 11 nuclear carrier groups - Nimitz Class. One is stationed in Japan. LINK

Well that aircraft carrier of China I wouldn't compare with a US one and they can send a couple more. On the other hand they loose importance if the coast is near.