Somyot rejects request for him to strip Thaksin of police rank again

[lucky11]

Somyot reasoned that the panel had failed to thoroughly deliberate how Thaksin's behaviour deserved the action

Is this panel(?) on the same planet as the rest of us ?

The panel voted 5 - 0 to strip Thaksin of his police rank - it is Somyot who doesn't see good reason!!

[doctormann]

Maybe time to summon Somyot for a little 'Attitude Adjustment'.

DM

[klauskunkel]

Somyot says panel must explain how Thaksin 'offended police dignity'

Can't offend what doesn't exist

[Ricardo]

Gosh another lining up for an attitude adjustment session

In other countries he would be asked to hand in his resignation.

In many other countries, he would not need to be asked to hand in his resignation, he would already have quit in shame.

[eggers]

Pol. Gen. Somyot stated the Police Committee recommendation "lacks details of his (Thaksin's) misbehaviours that could justify the action" i.e. remove Thaksin's rank as Po. Col. on basis that he discredited the RTPF.

Where has Pol. Gen. Somyot been for past 9 years???

The "puppeteer" is a convicted fugitive with numerous outstanding charges against him, that was before the "brouhaha"over comments against the Prayut Gov't!!......isn't that sufficient evidence that he has tarnished the reputation of the RTPF??

Why is he still considered a police officer anyway? Should have been dishonourably discharged after conviction in 2006!!

Perhaps, they could also whip his Police pension off him as well!!

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Maybe Somyot should also be stripped of his ranking. His behavior is clearly damaging the dignity (yes I know there really is no dignity) of the police as well.

[ginjag]

One obvious answer, Fire the police chief for his neglect and inaction, failure to strip Thaksin of his rank is a crime in it'self.

He was appointed by your dear great leader, remember ? one of the thousands thats been transfered into inactive post - contarary to the civil servant codes (they have done nothing wrong according to the code) or promoted based on undisclosed grounds and bathed in ointment for saying yes old great one. .

First to answer to your remark re " your dear great leader" I do NOT give a fig who appointed him, He should be asked to step down because of his non action---that's all. Your hate for the Thai PM is noted, up to you if it makes you feel better.

Now what is your view about Thaksin being stripped of his rank ?? you avoided it because it's not in your agenda to say he should be-----even if it is glaringly obvious to 90% on here he should be------are you afraid of losing face if you agreed.?? be honest. Manchester police chief would have to walk---so why not him---and Thaksin should have been automatically stripped once the verdicts were passed in court ---easy really. Whether you hate the PM or not, is irrelevant.

[lvr181]

Even though I am not a Thaksin lover, I have to salute the police chief for standing up against our Iron Fistmeister, Mr. P - well done!

Is that the first "scent of revalushan" perhaps ???

Ummmm......standing up to the PM is more important than dealing with a criminal fugitive?

With thinking like that, no wonder "corruption" has been (or still is) rampant in Thai society. Strip Thaksin of his rank and move on Somyot. If Thaksin does not like that he can return to Thailand and defend himself in court and ask for reinstatement.

[torpedo1970]

He sent it back twice

pretty clear that this Somyot guy need to be sent to the attitude adjustment camp. under article 44....

[fareastguy]

Being convicted by a court, jumping bail, having your legal team busted for attempting to bribe judges. having 15 outstanding cases waiting in the courts:

I can see the "grey areas" are making it hard to see how police dignity has been offended.

[Bung]

Im sure he was well rewarded for his decision. 4 months till retirement and it most likely just got a whole lot better.

[billd766]

So I've heard a lot of people complaining that the police are covering for their golden boy. What about the military going after their rival who leads the red shirts? It's okay because the military is doing it?

Furthermore, fugitives generally do not lose their passports. Countries that have police agreements generally share information with each other and are picked up when traveling. Somehow, I don't think China cares what Thailand thinks about Thaksin staying there.

Maybe he's a corrupt, idiotic, fool but revoking passports is abnormal for any fugitive and the obvious witch hunt continues. Fugitive or not.

Jeffrey, can you tell which countries will issue a new passport for a convicted fugitive on the run from a prison sentence? Furthermore, how do the authorities physically deliver the travel documentation to the fleeing fugitive in the countries you are referring to? Is there an amnesty on a certain day and they can pop in and collect it, or a "safe house" for issuing the passports that they use? I tried google searching how people on the run from prison can get their new passports but I can't find it.

It almost sounds like Thaksin propaganda which when you take a cold hard look at it, well it's absolute nonsense isn't it.

Issue? Not many but revoke? Almost unheard of. They revoked passports he held before he had fled or was convicted of anything. One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that? Though I might run if I were wanted in Thailand, there's nothing fair or impartial about the justice system here.

He was out on bail when he fled to escape justice. The trial had been completed, he had been found guilty and was in the sentencing stages. Also several of his lawyers tried to give a box of food for the judges which in reality held several million baht. They were not allowed bail, tried in court, found guilty and jailed.

There is NOTHING stopping Thaksin from coming back and challenging the courts except Thaksin himself. Oh and the little matter of 15 outstanding charges against him awaiting his return.

[billd766]

One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that?

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Silly me. I thought that Thaksin and his lawyers were present throughout the trial which would mean that they must have heard what was going on.

Do you have any link that says they were not present at the trial?

[rametindallas]

Poor Somyot. He is like the proverbial 'cat on a hot tin roof'; he has some shit and no place to bury it. Cat's, just like the RTP, like to bury their shit so not one will see it.

The first time he sent it back, he said that everyone hadn't signed the document but never mentioned any other problems. He was hoping the panel would be too afraid to put their names on what might be become Thaksin's hit list. When the officers complied, he had to think of another reason to stall so he said they hadn't deliberated long enough and the document didn't have enough detail. These stalling tactics might have worked prior to Gen. Prayut becoming PM but the General has come out publicly saying the law is the law and it must apply to Thaksin the same as anyone else.

Poor Somyot only has four months until retirement but I'm afraid PM Prayut won't wait that long (there is no love lost between the RTP and the RTA). Somyot is being forced to publicly choose where his loyalty lies; with Thaksin and the old way of doing police cover-ups or with Prayut and Prayut's desire to reform the RTP and ending this business of hiding wrongdoing by police.

If being a convicted felon who also jumped bail and has been a fugitive for seven years and also financed several attempted soft coups does not constitute a reason to strip Thaksin of his rank, the RTP have sunk even lower than I could imagine.

.

[mikemac]

.................."He said the recommendation has no details of his misbehaviour to justify the action."...................................

Where has this tool been for the last 10 years ? Hiding under a rock on another planet, in another galaxy ?

It is easy to see that evil despot has been Skyping with his pals in the RTP and he still has them under his control.

Some things will never change.

[rametindallas]

It's quite correct to insist on a properly constructed documentation to support the recommendations.

If the document wasn't properly constructed, why didn't Somyot say that the first time he returned the document to the panel?

Instead, the only reason he gave then was that all the panel members hadn't signed the document. He's grasping at straws and straws won't save him.

.

[rametindallas]

The word on the street is that any directed verdict by a tribunal made up of other than the accused peers, and is not recognized as a crime beyond Thai borders, is moot It is extremely difficult to pursue punishment or extradition in a case where the alleged crime would be called free speech in a representative democracy.

The word on the street

Does that have any legal weight? Is it written in any legal code? I would go so far as to say that 'the word on the street' is 'moot'.

.

[rametindallas]

So I've heard a lot of people complaining that the police are covering for their golden boy. What about the military going after their rival who leads the red shirts? It's okay because the military is doing it?

Furthermore, fugitives generally do not lose their passports. Countries that have police agreements generally share information with each other and are picked up when traveling. Somehow, I don't think China cares what Thailand thinks about Thaksin staying there.

Maybe he's a corrupt, idiotic, fool but revoking passports is abnormal for any fugitive and the obvious witch hunt continues. Fugitive or not.

Jeffrey, can you tell which countries will issue a new passport for a convicted fugitive on the run from a prison sentence? Furthermore, how do the authorities physically deliver the travel documentation to the fleeing fugitive in the countries you are referring to? Is there an amnesty on a certain day and they can pop in and collect it, or a "safe house" for issuing the passports that they use? I tried google searching how people on the run from prison can get their new passports but I can't find it.

It almost sounds like Thaksin propaganda which when you take a cold hard look at it, well it's absolute nonsense isn't it.

QUOTE>>> "In 2009 it was announced that Thaksin had obtained Montenegrin citizenship through that country's economic citizenship program"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

But then are we not straying off topic... plenty of other threads on the subject of Thaksins passports.

Now try finding a link where Montenegro gives one of its own convicted, fugitive felons a passport; economic or otherwise. Thaksin hadn't broken any laws in Montenegro.

.

[rametindallas]

The fact that a convicted criminal sill holds a police rank makes Thailand look like a corrupt 3rd world banana republic...

National police chief Pol Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang should be sacked for bringing the police force into disrepute.

Why weren't you whining about this ten years ago?

Lieutenant-General Chalor Kerdthes was convicted of savage murders and is serving a 50 year prison sentence. He still has his rank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Diamond_Affair

Scandals involving murders of innocent people and foreign diplomats as well as having currently serving Generals implicated in human trafficking gangs is slightly worse than co-signing for a legal house purchase wouldn't you say?

Again, I dislike Thaksin, think he is a menace to the country and would love to see him gone.

But the one-sided mania of the Thai visa couch warriors blinded by Thaksin obsession is out of control.

Ruamari, you've been a member of this forum for longer than 8 years yet this is only your second post. I find that strange. You seem to have strong opinions so why haven't you joined the discussions before now? What kind of one-sided mania of the Thai visa couch warrior are you?

.

[rubl]

He sent it back twice

pretty clear that this Somyot guy need to be sent to the attitude adjustment camp. under article 44....

How about a few dozen hours of community service?

Oh, forgot, he's already in the police force

[rametindallas]

Somyot says panel must explain how Thaksin 'offended police dignity'

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- NATIONAL police chief General Somyot Poompanmuang said Friday he has sent back a request for him to strip former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of his rank as a police lieutenant colonel to the police committee that considered the issue.

The panel had failed to thoroughly determine how Thaksin's behaviour deserved the action, he said.

Previously, Somyot sent back a request to strip Thaksin of his rank on grounds that a panel member failed to sign his name to endorse the decision.

"I insist that I'm not buying time. I don't fear [anything]. Everything must go through the process in accordance with the regulations," Somyot told reporters.

According to the 2004 regulation on police rank, an officer is to be stripped their rank if they violate the regulation through behaviour that damages the dignity and reputation of police, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Somyot-says-panel-must-explain-how-Thaksin-offende-30261704.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-05

First off, I don't believe the reason they recommended stripping Thaksin of his police rank was because he offended police dignity; that would require the RTP to have some dignity left. Somyot is removing the last vestiges of police dignity by his stalling.

Second, there are six or seven different causes to remove someone's rank and damaging the dignity and reputation of the police is just one cause. The fact that Thaksin is a convicted, fugitive felon who has been on the run for longer than seven years should be enough for any moral/ethical police chief to allow the proceedings to continue.

Somyot has run out of credibility and is in danger of having his own rank removed for damaging the dignity and reputation of the police.

.

[Nobb]

Did any one really believe that they were going to strip him of his rank. They do not want that monkey on there backs!

[Baerboxer]

Somyot says panel must explain how Thaksin 'offended police dignity'

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- NATIONAL police chief General Somyot Poompanmuang said Friday he has sent back a request for him to strip former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of his rank as a police lieutenant colonel to the police committee that considered the issue.

The panel had failed to thoroughly determine how Thaksin's behaviour deserved the action, he said.

Previously, Somyot sent back a request to strip Thaksin of his rank on grounds that a panel member failed to sign his name to endorse the decision.

"I insist that I'm not buying time. I don't fear [anything]. Everything must go through the process in accordance with the regulations," Somyot told reporters.

According to the 2004 regulation on police rank, an officer is to be stripped their rank if they violate the regulation through behaviour that damages the dignity and reputation of police, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Somyot-says-panel-must-explain-how-Thaksin-offende-30261704.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-05

First off, I don't believe the reason they recommended stripping Thaksin of his police rank was because he offended police dignity; that would require the RTP to have some dignity left. Somyot is removing the last vestiges of police dignity by his stalling.

Second, there are six or seven different causes to remove someone's rank and damaging the dignity and reputation of the police is just one cause. The fact that Thaksin is a convicted, fugitive felon who has been on the run for longer than seven years should be enough for any moral/ethical police chief to allow the proceedings to continue.

Somyot has run out of credibility and is in danger of having his own rank removed for damaging the dignity and reputation of the police.

.

And this is the guy whose "reforming" the RTP; the guy who assured us of the integrity in the Koh Toa murders investigations; the guy responsible for ensuring the police act in the same fair and just manner to all in strict accordance with the law.

No surprise to read the crap going on to the young Aussie lad who was brutally assaulted in Koh Samui. The Chinese American thugs who did it are back in the US. All seems clear once one of the millionaire fathers turned up and straightened the police and prosecutors out.

The justice system and in particular the police here is just a bad joke. And, this guy's latest behavior shows he ain't interested in changing it. 4

[cocopops]

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Since the trial had been able to start with Thaksin present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'not guilty', it didn't matter that Thaksin jumped bail, or that a few of his lawyers were sentenced to six month jail time for 'contempt of court' in relation to lunchboxes. The court could continue, a new Thaksin legal team was present, they did whatever a legal team does and Thaksin was convicted, sentenced. His legal team could file appeal within one month, but didn't.

Now as to 'evidence not allowed to hear' please tell me some more. Iseem to have forgotten what that was about.

The evidence was given by Pridiyathorn Devakula.

Tell me more, especially tell me about the reasoning the court gave in their verdict and how that relates to information no one has seen or heard of?

Start with Wikipedia entries on the convict and his then wife? Then use the search terms you find there with Google?

I have no information apart from what I can find using those two sources. It seems likely that the secret evidence was what established that there really was a direct supervisory relationship between the accused and the government department from which his spouse purchased land at auction. Given that both the law and the public testimony of all concerned said so.

Also of interest is that nobody, but nobody (!!), alleges that the land was purchased under price. Or that the buyer gained any advantage whatsoever from her relationship with the former politician.

IMO it is possible to confidently say that there is at least one great crime in the fugitive's history, and a number of instances where the spirit of the law was quite brazenly violated. But everything I've read suggests that this wasn't that. This was nothing more than a technical legal error.

[smutcakes]

Tell me more, especially tell me about the reasoning the court gave in their verdict and how that relates to information no one has seen or heard of?

Start with Wikipedia entries on the convict and his then wife? Then use the search terms you find there with Google?

I have no information apart from what I can find using those two sources. It seems likely that the secret evidence was what established that there really was a direct supervisory relationship between the accused and the government department from which his spouse purchased land at auction. Given that both the law and the public testimony of all concerned said so.

Also of interest is that nobody, but nobody (!!), alleges that the land was purchased under price. Or that the buyer gained any advantage whatsoever from her relationship with the former politician.

IMO it is possible to confidently say that there is at least one great crime in the fugitive's history, and a number of instances where the spirit of the law was quite brazenly violated. But everything I've read suggests that this wasn't that. This was nothing more than a technical legal error.

And in a country where the wealthy can do anything with impunity, and on this mild technicality, not only was he found guilty, but actually sentenced to 2 years in prison. You can mow down an entire bus stop whilst drunk and you would not get a 2 year sentence if you are connected here.

Everyone can see the whole issue was politically motivated, which is why no one outside of Thailand takes it the least bit seriously. The sentence would be fine if they treated everyone according to the law, but the fact they don't and never had makes the 2 year prison sentence stand out even more as being unusual, almost as if the judges were being pressurised into it.....

[Alwyn]

One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that?

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Since the trial had been able to start with Thaksin present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'not guilty', it didn't matter that Thaksin jumped bail, or that a few of his lawyers were sentenced to six month jail time for 'contempt of court' in relation to lunchboxes. The court could continue, a new Thaksin legal team was present, they did whatever a legal team does and Thaksin was convicted, sentenced. His legal team could file appeal within one month, but didn't.

Now as to 'evidence not allowed to hear' please tell me some more. Iseem to have forgotten what that was about.

I remember the evidence thing too. I can't be arsed to google on your behalf but you can start here maybe? http://www.nationmultimedia.com/homeThaksin-s-lawyers-question-AEC-s-neutrality-30117946.html

[Alwyn]

Most people know I prefer Thaksin to the present illegal Junta Government but even I can see why he'd be stripped of any police rank etc!! Crikey, I used to train some police from one of the Met's divisions and I remember one telling me how he'd been driving with a team from London to Nottingham in the early hours as part of an armed unit, on police business and in a police unmarked Mercedes; he was worried he'd been caught in a speed trap on the M1. My comment was "so what"? He told me if he'd been nicked he would lose his job! No choice, he would have been gone. For speeding. While I think this is a bit strong I can see how it is not appropriate for a police officer to remain a police officer with a criminal conviction! This bloke is really putting his cock-on-the-block by doing this I reckon!!

[rubl]

So, Thaksin unfairly sentenced, as some believe that is. This because is seems to some and it was alleged by other that that is so.

Anyway, our favourite criminal fugitive is still defended by posters who would immediately write their representative if a police officer jumping bail would not be stripped of his rank.

[cocopops]

One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that?

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Silly me. I thought that Thaksin and his lawyers were present throughout the trial which would mean that they must have heard what was going on.

Do you have any link that says they were not present at the trial?

They were present at the trial. They were not allowed to hear or answer testimony from Pridiyathorn Devakula, then governor of the BOT. His testimony is significant as, on paper, it was him and not the Prime Minister who was the one with ultimate jurisdiction over the FIDF.

If you're trying to figure out what happened, maybe start with the pages linked from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potjaman_Na_Pombejra#Ratchadaphisek_land_purchase_controversy

Folks will make their own minds up I guess. Some more quickly than others.

[rubl]

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Since the trial had been able to start with Thaksin present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'not guilty', it didn't matter that Thaksin jumped bail, or that a few of his lawyers were sentenced to six month jail time for 'contempt of court' in relation to lunchboxes. The court could continue, a new Thaksin legal team was present, they did whatever a legal team does and Thaksin was convicted, sentenced. His legal team could file appeal within one month, but didn't.

Now as to 'evidence not allowed to hear' please tell me some more. Iseem to have forgotten what that was about.

I remember the evidence thing too. I can't be arsed to google on your behalf but you can start here maybe? http://www.nationmultimedia.com/homeThaksin-s-lawyers-question-AEC-s-neutrality-30117946.html

Well, it would seem you don't remember, now do you?

BTW the link is about a case more than a year later. It also has a lot of "we question" and answers which are of course ignored as not the 'right' answers the lawyers wanted to hear.