Big Impact Expected From Tougher Visa Rules

[keekwai]

At the end of the day this is all about tax/visa dosh not earned, so I think they should start charging the tax and visas for people who don't qualify for the the run of the mill visa(s). Problem solved.

I do think there will be revisions once the impact is seen. Bit like the drinking laws - tight at first and then gone pretty much back to the way they were before.

Exactly. Thats what I said two days ago or so. So far it seems that only you and I can tell the difference between a PAID visa and a FREE 30 Exemption. Like I said 2 days ago .. if I was the Thai Govt. .. I know which one I would prefer farangs using "endlessly".

The spin about getting rid of "undesireables" is just "decoration". Money is the REAL motivator here. Ohterwise they would ALSO declare a stop to back to back PAID Tourist Visas ... which they haven't.

If anyone wants to disagree with me .. please go back and read the Departments announcment VERY slowly first.

[MartinBKK]

The notion that Thailand's economy will collapse without the 40,000 a month or so that 20,000 visa runners contribute to the economy in (quote) "condos, beer, beer, beer, taxis, women, women and women" is as laughable as it is patronising.

If people really think the Thai economy is built on this, they are very much mistaken. For a start, the entire tourism industry contributes only 17% to GDP so the pissy little contribution made here isnt going to affect the macro-economy very much.

Thailand's economy would barely miss a heartbeat if all expats stopped spending tomorrow, let alone those caught by these rule changes.

Are farang really so egotistical as to think we are NEEDED in Thailand? We're not needed - we're tolerated. Up to a point.

Hmmmm - You can't have it both ways. Are the people living here on VOA's considered tourists or not? Are these people included in your figure of 17%? Do you know how this figure was calculated?

If i spend 1000 baht on a meal in a restaurant is that expenditure from a tourist? Is that included in your 17%? These figures are not quantifiable. Wake up to the fact farangs are a big slice of Thailand and this legislation is going to have severe economic repercussions.

[madi]

I think I fall into a category mentioned above, where I work outside Thailand, but come back into the country every other month, for about 25 days. I stopped applying for visas, as it was time-consuming, costly, and unnecessary. I just come back in every time and get a 30 day stamp. I have lived, and on occasions worked, in Thailand for over 15 years. I married a Thai woman, have two children, several properties, and have invested a large amount of money in the country. I wish to remain living there, and being married to a Thai, and with children in school, I should be able to? If I have to start getting visas again, so be it. I qualify for a retirement visa, I think, being over 50 years old, and having sufficient capital in a Thai bank. What I don't need is to have hassles, when I return to Thailand on my return next month. I hope the smoke clears, and it becomes easier to understand exactly what the new regulations are...????

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Just get a Marriage visa.

It is an O Visa and they stamp Thai Wife in your Passport.

You renew it once a year. It takes 15 minutes.

That's a retirement visa, the marriage visa still involves a number of visits over a 3 month period before they give it to you. I have been married to a Thai since 1994, but have worked overseas on 70 days on 14 days off cycle with a side trip to KL for my Libyan Visa [2 entry stamps in 2 weeks].

I cannot come back to Thailand after 30 days, then 45 days then 60 days etc as immigration requests, so no Marriage Visa, even though I have a Thai Wife and 3 children!. The 30 day entry without Visa suits my current situation, but it appears that I will be having problems in the future. I am banking B300,000/month so no problem with qualification on income. I do not know why a Retirement Visa should take only 1 day, even for an unmarried Farang, but a marriage Visa for a farang with a wife and three children should take months.

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You have the cash so the retirement visa should be easy for you since you DO NOT work in Thailand.

Even for people who ARE married, it is a better option than the marriage Visa if they are 50 years old or older. After all---who wants their status tied to a marriage. I do not mean to be rude but we all know that women can leave us. If you have your Retirement Visa, you are in control at least in that way.

Do the retirement Visa like you said.

It is easy.

Don't worry. It is easy.

You sound like you know what you are doing very well.

[ramidin]

I would like to address this to those people who seem to feel that Thailand should be a bowl of cherries , just here for their plucking. "YOU ARE A GUEST IN THAILAND". You are here because you chose too be. But do not expect a special program tailored for each and every whinger out there because the law does not fit them. Thai law is here to protect Thailand not YOU specifically.

the whole thing is so absolutely ludicrous it defies description.

how many billion baht is the marketing department of thai government pouring into worldwide advertising and pr campaigns to ATTRACT more people to come to the kingdom, pretty please?

Yes they do !!! They are trying and do attract TOURISTS", and they make it much more easy to get into the country by having visa on arrival for TOURISTS. They also make it easy to re-enter for up to 90 days for TOURISTS. Those cheap charlie whingers posting here do not want to be tourists, they want to stay here for as long as they want, as in living here, not being a tourist. .... and because the law has turned a blind eye for some years, too many of the whingers have stayed and spent some money in bars getting drunk,, then you seem to feel this is your god given right.

Grow up, respect the law or get out its that simple.

Step back and think a moment..... is it as easy for a Thai to get into your home country, and can they do border runs in your country. I doubt it , then why should you expect it in someone's elses country. Other than spending money getting drunk and living cheap, what are you contributing to the good of the country???

their government maintains offices in every major country for the only purpose of attracting and enticing folks to come and spend some money.

This is correct , as does your home country I am sure. And then your country makes it much harder for them to get into that country.

Scizophrenic as can be, while marketing is spending billions of tax baht on trying to attract visitors, another department of the bureaucracy, called Immigration, is paranoically issuing new rules effectively discouraging people from coming and/or staying/investing in the Kingdom.

They offer Tourist Visa from or through and every Royal Thai Embassy, and/or Royal Thai Consulate in the world, but whingers think this is too much effort to put out , after all it will slow them down for spending their thousands of dollars, milking a system that has had a blind eye towards them before, and they have abused the system. Now its time to pay the piper.

Another beautiful example of the usual insanity of bureaucracies (by no means confined to Thailand)

Perhaps, but is your home country any different ??

Sooner or later even they will find out that visitors have choices...that there are many many nice countries to visit, live, invest and spend money.

Yes this is true, and if the Thai system of laws offends you, then take your own advice .... Find this other country, that will make you happy. This will not only make you whingers happy, it will make all the rest of us expats, who do live by and up to the law, happy.

Consider this. There are many types of visas available for those who wish to stay here. Push away from the bar and get on the internet one day and look into it. Yes it will take a little effort, but that is your responsibility to do it, if you wish to stay here and spend your vast sum of money.

If you fall into the cracks and there is no visa available to meet your particular needs, then guess what, maybe you don't belong here. You want to make an estimate of how many times each day Thai's or other foreigners are told that by embassy's and/or consulates around the world, when trying to get into a foreign country???

Get off your high horse and stop feeling so superior to the citizens of this country. Simple get the proper visa, get legal, or if that is too much for you or cannot otherwise be done..... get out, go somewhere where you can drink in peace.

Goodbye land of no more smiles.. I wish you well in your new chosen location and much happiness.

If you love Thailand and wish to spend time in this beautiful country, which you apparently do, as you are here, then live up to and respect its laws.

OMHO

Gonzo.

You have my vote.All the fuss seems to be from border runners, extended 'tourists' and those who just cant qualify for a Non- O or a Non- B.

12 month Non- O is simple - 800k in the bank, or 65k per month in income.

12 month Non- B is simple - run a legit business, or be sponsored by a foreign company.

However:

Quote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Paulbrun

I think I fall into a category mentioned above, where I work outside Thailand, but come back into the country every other month, for about 25 days. I stopped applying for visas, as it was time-consuming, costly, and unnecessary. I just come back in every time and get a 30 day stamp. I have lived, and on occasions worked, in Thailand for over 15 years. I married a Thai woman, have two children, several properties, and have invested a large amount of money in the country. I wish to remain living there, and being married to a Thai, and with children in school, I should be able to? If I have to start getting visas again, so be it. I qualify for a retirement visa, I think, being over 50 years old, and having sufficient capital in a Thai bank. What I don't need is to have hassles, when I return to Thailand on my return next month. I hope the smoke clears, and it becomes easier to understand exactly what the new regulations are...????

Unquote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Is this not EXACTLY what they are trying to stop, LIVING and WORKING in Thailand, not paying tax, no work permit and 15 years on 30 days stamps?

Paulbrun, read the writing on the wall, your 30 days stamps are over, get your retirement visa or look forward to being refused entry. Certainly, being married to a Thai, having capital and having income you are entitled to remain here - but only if you get a visa!!!!!! IN your circumstances, a one year Non - O, or a retirement visa should be a breeze. I think for the retirement visa, you need to get an 'O' first.

I have read so many of these threads in the past few days, the message is so, so clear - get legal and get a visa, or end stay in LOS.

Try being a Thai going overseas (especially UK, US and Australia) and just 'living' there. These three consulates are merciless, I know from personal experience sponsoring partner to go to UK, we had to show an opngoing relationship (2 years), land titles in Thailand, money in the bank, paid airfares, that we had accomodation in the UK, that she had previously travelled with me (yes, they checked my passport and hers for corresponding stamps!!!!!).

PS for those considering Malaysia, be prepared to deposit RM300,000 (just over 3 million THB) for a year in a fixed deposit, to then get a five year 'Second Home visa). After a year, you have to leave RM60,000 permanently in the fixed deposit for the life of the visa, and you still have to renew, pay fees and prove you have ongoing income to support yourself.

For Singapore, have a million USD for permanent residence, or a legit business.

Just in case anyone thinks I am harsh here, I make a trip once a year to the UK to renew my NON - B, even although I have a REAL work permit, with thai employees, and I am paying tax, and so are the employees as well as social fund, etc.

My Non - B is issued same day in person, and I get to see the family, and I get a 12 month multiple entry Non - B with no problems at all, just an application, guarantee of repatriation, copy of WP, and (althogh not needed) Thai company documents, showing returns in and tax paid.

So, no excuses, it can be done. Lots of others on this forum are doing exactly the same, complying with the law and applying for and receiving legal visas.

Also, read the comment from Immigration carefully - there is no problem getting a visa in your home country. That is what they are trying to force, not Penang, KL, Vientiane, etc HOME COUNTRY, that way the 'bad guys' don't get back out!!!!!

[mark lamai]

concerning the economic effects,

probably true that the drop off in tourist revenues will be small.

but..

- if the likes of Forbes (USA) are considering downgrading Thailands rating.

- the likes of Tesco, Carrefour etc are in a legal limbo and are possibly operating illegally.

the net loss of investment into Thailand could actually be substantial.

the net loss of goodwill towards Thailand is obviously large already.

regardless of future corrections, the damage is done.

who would invest any amount of money in Thailand now?

[MartinBKK]

Do you think the "bad guys" do not have the funds to go back to the US or UK? I think many involved in criminal activity have a lot more resources than you do ramidin!!! Why are people constantly telling us that bad guys have no money and good guys do? What does money have to do with someones character? Please explain it to me as i find this point of view rather shallow.

[blam]

Bendix and nuffsaid are Russian, it's pretty obvious. All the ideas dogmatic, the presumptions pseudo pragmatic, and the level of understanding sophmoric. Typical Leninist downtrodders.

You guys really need to stop kludging everything to fit your high nose weak dynamics and unselfishly step more into the reality of the situation. We really don't care at all about your hiso opinions of yourselves. This visa situation is about to become an international stigma on the country of Thailand.

It's say one thing, do another. Yep that's OK for Viet Nam or Pakistan, but Thailand? Wake up call!

...

FYI, the Thais have backpedaled on grandfathering 3 million baht condo visas. If you gottee you gottee and will contine to receive your annual 1 yr visa. After 01/10/06 it's 10 million.

The typical work permit setup requires 2000 baht in taxes each month. Now, if Thai immigraition were to say "you can have as many visa runs as you want, we take your picture, your thumbprint, and require 4000 baht a month". This makes more sense.

Yes, this has more to do with shaking the election year tree, I know, I've seen plenty of elections. Also been through a coup, a financial fall, and a couple of student assasinations. This just another bunch of smoke from a fire, this time lit by Thaksin. Of course they don't want to inform their own people so they can prepare for the storm. What they don't know won't hurt them. Thank you Mr. Caretaker.

...

I called the Thai Consulate in Penang yesterday, spoke very polite Thai, and was able to talk directly with the deputy. Yes I can get a regular visa, no I cannot get multiple entries. If anyone here wants to call them, you can too: +6042268029. No need to email, they don't reply. No, the consulate had absolutely no idea why this instruction set was implemented at this time. None. Something about Burmese maybe, that's it.

...

Also, for your information. Money...tax money. Thaksin has done nothing to help finance the Tsunami Health Center for Children in Surat Thani, and it is now closing its doors. All of the money was originally donated and funded by farangs and was to be matched by the Thai government, so where's the money? "We want farang money to take care of it", that's where. Well OK, but wait, there is a ton of Thai tax money going into the failed 'Night Safari' in Chiang Mai (Another of Thaksin's failed pet disasters.) <deleted> is going on here? They need the farang tax money? Whoa, yeah right, right.

This boondoggle will be another another unmitigated disaster. I can just see the meeting today, "I know, let's do this now..."

Bendix and nuffsaid, get off of your high horses and get into the street level of this thing.

[keekwai]

Paulbrun, read the writing on the wall, your 30 days stamps are over, get your retirement visa or look forward to being refused entry.

Not quite true .. the next "least hassled" step for a chronic "30 day Free enty" "Border Hopper" (Not a visa Runner .. as no Visa is involved in this case).. is simply to buy a 60 day Tourist Visa and extend .. and renew indefinatley. 1 Visa run every three months (No Multiples .. only Singles available)

No need for a Non Immigrant of any variety. No need to run out and marry the first poo ying you see either.

ALL PAID VISAS ARE UNAFFECTED. Like I said earlier .. I rang the Sydney Embassy yesterday .. and researched as many Embassy/Consulate sites on the net I could find.

END of Panic ... End of Story.

Edited September 16, 2006 by keekwai

[cnxpat]

Can't read all the posts, too much, but imagine yourself being Thai, no degree, no money in the bank, and try to get a visa for a western (Schengen) country.

Or imagine being a thai woman/wife, married (legally by thai and farang law) to a farang husband, with a farang daughter and try to get a visa for a western (Schengen country)

Imagine being a Dutch citizen, having a dutch (Schengen) passport, but only 1,5 years old, daddy having a Dutch passport as well, and being denied any and all privileges in a western country (child support, medical etc.) AND having to see your mother "deported" after 90 days from a civilised western (Schengen) country.

Ok, Holland is the worst fascist xenofobic country at the moment (on par with Denmark I think) but Thailand has accepted me, and as long as you meet the requirements, you will be allowed to stay, and do as you please.

I have always found it strange (and can accept Thai immigration) that one can be a tourist, ok, you like it that much, here's another 30 days ... wow, you like Thailand that much??? ok, another 30 days ...

after a few years, time for the tourist to pay taxes? yes, like Thai people do. But if you're wealthy, than you won't have a problem to comply with the requirements right!?

And from all I have learned in my years here, really, no one is worried about anyone leaving. Maybe one or two landlords, but that's about it.

Read a bit more, all this has been said before.

[LivinLOS]

Can't read all the posts, too much, but imagine yourself being Thai, no degree, no money in the bank, and try to get a visa for a western (Schengen) country.

Or imagine being a thai woman/wife, married (legally by thai and farang law) to a farang husband, with a farang daughter and try to get a visa for a western (Schengen country)

You knwo everyone keeps saying how tought htis is..

I personally have taken 2 girls back one to Holland and UK one to Holland and Ireland.. Both times the girls got visa immediately without interview.

My little brother has taken 1 girl back to Holland.. One girl to Holland UK Ireland and NZ and he did have soem interviews and delay waiting for it (6 weeks interview one time and a similar wait to NZ where he wasnt a resident or anything.. Just can we have a visa for a couple of months vacation).. He was only early 20's through most of these apps/

Every one of them wasnt tough.. Everyone kept crying about how impossible it would be.. Just filled in all paperwork.. Dressed nicely.. Spoke politely and showed a nice large bank account as surety of being able to finance such a stay.

All of the girls concerned had worked in the bars (though none really tattooedup hard BG's) and none of them had a scrap in the way of employment history.

My experience says it wasnt an ardious process.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Paulbrun, read the writing on the wall, your 30 days stamps are over, get your retirement visa or look forward to being refused entry.

Not quite true .. the next "least hassled" step for a chronic "30 day Free enty" "Border Hopper" (Not a visa Runner .. as no Visa is involved in this case).. is simply to buy a 60 day Tourist Visa and extend .. and renew indefinatley.

No need for a Non Immigrant of any variety. No need to run out and marry the first poo ying you see either.

ALL PAID VISAS ARE UNAFFECTED. Like I said earlier .. I rang the Sydney Embassy yesterday .. and researched as many Embassy/Consulate sites on the net I could find.

END of Panic ... End of Story.

the thing that is unclear according to Sunbelt is if consulates will allow this type of serial tourist visa activity without getting suspicious and asking for documentation of not working in thailand etc. How do you prove a negative? I have money flowing into my bank account in the states and I make ATM withdrawls and spend it.

This is the big question. otherwise I and others could go to their country of origin or perhaps Malaysia and get tourist visa's to stay indefinitely. Sunbelt seems to think not for long before it would become tricky or denied to serial touists in the future.

I am just finishing a education study visa and will try a combo of tourist visa and waivers to stay here a little longer and then try moving to a country like Vietnam and perhaps come back for another 6 to 9 months down the road. My landlord is not going to be thrilled to lose me. I think if I came back to thailand down the road the rental prices might be lower. Does not make sense for me to rent a place I can only live in 6 to 9 months a year. I am under 50 and don't work in thailand. Time will tell. Maybe in a few years when I hit retirement age I might come back.

Been fun to experience this country but I am starting to see this new policy as a positive because I can go check out other countries. There are some nice ones out there to try living in

Vietnam. Dalat is considered the Chiang Mai of VN.

Malaysia, close enough to invade thailand now and then

India, some nice places for expats.

Chile. beautiful and cheap. friendly for expat business.

Argentina, very affordable and great nightlife

Costa Rica. better than hawaii and loves us yankees

Brazil. Great in the right places

Uraguay

I will keep coming back to thailand but don't have to live here all year. big deal :-)

[serpentine]

In your eyes only 2 week tourists are "real". It seems that you like Mr Taksin have forgotton that tourism, Thailand's biggest earner of foreign currency, is founded in 20 years of the back packing tourist. Most BPs spend months travelling throughout S E Asia, often returning to Thailand for the longest period of their travels because it WAS a back packer friendly country. Many of these BPs returned after years to make small business because they realised that their time in Thailand was the happiest time in their travels. (I think this group number tens of thousands in this country). The effect they have had in tourist circles has been positive. I am sure the majority would be happy to aquire the appropriate work permits if it was possible. Their thai partners usually explain to them that that's not how it works in Thailand. Everything is done with back handers. The Immigration dept can and has the right to pass any laws they want with regard to these long stayers............but when the thai people wonder in a few years where all the nice tourists have gone I can guarantee Taksin will not even be living in this country to explain it to them. Thailand depends on tourism, long term or 2 weekers, and needs to consider this before too many people get pissed off and the word spreads..........

[varun]

Having read thru all 18 pages and from what I can infer, tourist visas will play a significant part.

Correct me if I'm wrong, yearly expats will have to get 2 tourist visas a year in addition to their necessary visa runs in order to stay for a total of one year.

Here's the math :

2x tourist visas + extensions = 120 days + 60 days = 180 days

6 x VOA stamps ( 3 per tourist visa ) = 180 days.

= 360 days

That about sums it up.

Therefore, the deciding factor will be what will be the criteria for issuing tourist visas after 1 October.

[Pattaya46]

...

Correct me if I'm wrong,

...

6 x VOA stamps ( 3 per tourist visa ) = 180 days.

...

Hi Vargun,

I am sorry but I think that you are partially wrong.

The VOA for tourist visa give you 30 days INCLUDING the day you ask for it,

and you have to ask it before the previous one expire, then the last day.

So 3 consecutives VOA is not 3x30 = 90 days but 30+2x29 = 88 days

and 2 sets of 3 is 176 days, not 180.

I think you will have to stay a few days abroad every 180 days...

Pattaya46

[rcalsop]

From one who has a "retirement" visa I think the time to go has come so I say to Malatysia "would you like some money?"!

I am not retired have a Thai wife and two kids and this week sees the end of Thailand for us .

Sold the cars ,rented out 1 house ( we will sell the other ) and I have taken up employment in Malaysia with the family moving to Penang .

A few years yet away from retiring but we are to buy a property in Penang with a view to retiring there .

I have been working there about 6 weeks and love it so far so much easier than Thailand I can honestly say I achieved things on a personal level ( Malaysian Driving Permit on day 2 ,it took 30 minutes and Bank accounts day 3 , work permit approved and completed with one visit to a local office 4 weeks .

The company I work for pays more and actually makes me feel wanted not just a nesesary evil to be disposed of as soon as possible . Professionally ,and I cannot believe this my self ,1 month has seen restructuring ,training and capital purchase orders that took 18 month to achieve in a Thai company. hard bloody thankless work in Thailand my wife always advised me never to work in Thailand ,we lived abroad before . But I thought I knew better..now I am enjoying my life again I feel better , my blood pressure is way down and I look and feel fitter already .

On returning to BKK this weekend my nieghbours and friend not seen for 6 weeks all commented I looked younger and well ,and for the first time I think I will reach retirement . The moral listen to your wife !! ( well sometimes ) and get out .

!!.

[angusandtj]

---John K - Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I only read through the first 8 pages but you are spot on. Every aspect of Thai society will be effected by this law. For each of the long stay VOA holders that will have to leave there will be a "black hole" that was once filled with a small, medium or large amount of money. I say black hole because it will suck everything in it's reach in to fill it. I, myself, have already made plans to leave on November 1st after being here for 2 1/2 years so this law is not going to effect me but my absence will have a domino effect because of this new law. When I stop paying rent for my house then my landlord will have to find a new tenant. My house is far out of the price range of the average Thai so who will rent it. Retirees are usually looking to buy so here's where the black hole comes in to play. My landlord owns a bar. Will she just lose money on the house and let it go. No. She will try to make the money up in some other way by passing on increases to customers or by cutting back her expenses which may include employees. Either way, when you remove a source of revenue from anywhere it has a ripple effect. What effects one person will in varying degrees effect another and another and another, etc. Look at our worlds' economy and you can see this. Has the cost of oil had any effect on the products you buy or consume? Across the board the answer is YES!

---taxexile, can you not see this? Reading where you believe it will hardly effect the tourist industry almost floored me. Do you really think that my Thai landlord who happens to own a tourist bar is the only one in all of Thailand that receives money from long stay VOA holders and then passes that money on to many others through normal commerce? Come on now. They are going to have to make up this loss through tourism or any venue in their reach. Besides this effect on tourism, the long stayer will also frequent "tourist" establishments and disperse money throughout all aspects of Thai society. It is naive to think that this loss of money would only effect groups of people that specifically profit from long stay VOA holders like the visa run buses and visa shops.

---taxexile, as long as you are staying in this country, regardless of your visa type and requirements then I guess that means that they would be your masters as well as being the masters of those who have to jump through the "embarassing" hurdles. Simply, they are your masters as well and you also must take extra steps in order to live here, not just the VOA holders. Your dignity is no more well earned than mine- the lowly VOA holder.

---to taxexile and Gonzo the Face - please wake up to the reality that is Thailand and stop being so judgemental. It must be nice to have everything work out so perfectly for you. You make it sound as if the average VOA holder wishes to have this visa or as you believe, they are just too lazy. I am guilty of staying here for six months on a VOA when I first got here and was down in Hat Yai getting my TEFL certificate. I came here with plenty of cash so this 6 months was actually alot of vacation and a little schoolwork. I became bored with the long vacation and decided to go to work. I went to work for a private school and did everything they asked me to do and alot more to get my work permit. It still took them 8 months to get it. Now based on your opinion I should have had to get out because I must not have deserved the visa. Or how about this. When you change jobs, you lose the work permit and visa and have to start again with the whole process. I did this and my new school siad they were getting my work permit and after almost three months they said they weren't going to apply for it but they still want me to work. This is a GOVERNMENT school!

I have money that I spend regularly, I don't go to bars or even drink and have a steady non bargirl girlfriend. I try to do everything they ask even when it doesn't make sense or contradicts itself and sometimes still have to suffer undue consequences. There are alot of decent people here trying to do the right thing as well but still can't get their visa for reasons beyond their control. I guess we are not all as perfect as you. I'm sure the "whingers" out there might have some names to call you as well. Can we just drop the labels? Please.

Good luck to all of you and I hope you all enjoy whatever time you have here and keep your fingers crossed that this will wash over in the days and months to come. Jason

Edited September 16, 2006 by angusandtj

[Estrada]

I think I fall into a category mentioned above, where I work outside Thailand, but come back into the country every other month, for about 25 days. I stopped applying for visas, as it was time-consuming, costly, and unnecessary. I just come back in every time and get a 30 day stamp. I have lived, and on occasions worked, in Thailand for over 15 years. I married a Thai woman, have two children, several properties, and have invested a large amount of money in the country. I wish to remain living there, and being married to a Thai, and with children in school, I should be able to? If I have to start getting visas again, so be it. I qualify for a retirement visa, I think, being over 50 years old, and having sufficient capital in a Thai bank. What I don't need is to have hassles, when I return to Thailand on my return next month. I hope the smoke clears, and it becomes easier to understand exactly what the new regulations are...????

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Just get a Marriage visa.

It is an O Visa and they stamp Thai Wife in your Passport.

You renew it once a year. It takes 15 minutes.

That's a retirement visa, the marriage visa still involves a number of visits over a 3 month period before they give it to you. I have been married to a Thai since 1994, but have worked overseas on 70 days on 14 days off cycle with a side trip to KL for my Libyan Visa [2 entry stamps in 2 weeks].

I cannot come back to Thailand after 30 days, then 45 days then 60 days etc as immigration requests, so no Marriage Visa, even though I have a Thai Wife and 3 children!. The 30 day entry without Visa suits my current situation, but it appears that I will be having problems in the future. I am banking B300,000/month so no problem with qualification on income. I do not know why a Retirement Visa should take only 1 day, even for an unmarried Farang, but a marriage Visa for a farang with a wife and three children should take months.

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You have the cash so the retirement visa should be easy for you since you DO NOT work in Thailand.

Even for people who ARE married, it is a better option than the marriage Visa if they are 50 years old or older. After all---who wants their status tied to a marriage. I do not mean to be rude but we all know that women can leave us. If you have your Retirement Visa, you are in control at least in that way.

Do the retirement Visa like you said.

It is easy.

Don't worry. It is easy.

You sound like you know what you are doing very well.

Thanks, I have been doing my own Visa before for 10 years without too many problems. I have been thinking about the retirement Visa which takes a few hours, as I am over 50, however the rules say I need a copy of my criminal record. Since I do not have any offences, and have not been to the UK since I left in 1994, and do not intend to go back there, how do I get my "Criminal Record"? For a marriage Visa I do not need to produce a blank criminal record at all...yet another anomoly. Anyway, looks like I will have to toddle off down to Immigration and discuss it.

Incidently, when I asked for a retirement Visa before, immigration told me that the would give me a marriage visa. They also told me there are 58 Visa permutations they can chose from.

[Thaiquila]

No need to go back to the UK for criminal record. If applying for retirement extension in Thailand, it is not a requirement. It is a requirement if applying for the O-A in the UK ok US.

[warwick7735]

Hi All

This is my first post

I was coming to thai in Oct- Nov visiting friends, I was going to get a multi entry non immigrant visa in case i decided to stay for a longer period, I understood I could stay for 90days then leave and come back in. Will i still be able to do that as i would of already stayed my 90 days. is it still posible to leave and come back in to the country say 2 or 3 times so i can stay for the 12 months.

All help appreciated

Warwick

[F1 Visa Runner]

Bendix and nuff said, you guys wouldn`t understand much about a country`s social economy and how it all is connected would you.

If you guys seriously think this whole shit is only about the tourist living here all year round you must be way out of ya mind!

But do you really know what kind of amounts many of us pro-tourists actually are pumping in to this country??

I am pumping hundreds of thousand baht into this country every month. Every single satang coming from abroad. I spend and use more money every month than 30 thais on average income would do.

Of the tens of thousands being here there is no doubt that many spend a lot of money! 10-50 times more a month than the average thai.

Have you two rocket scientists ever thought about many of us are being taxed in other countries?

Not wanting to be taxed in two countries at the same time?

Want to keep it that way as to 1 million times better pension systems thailand could ever offer?

etc..

Do you see us pro-tourist farangs to be to hard on the public systems... Seen many farangs taking the green bus in bkk.. or using public hospitals..

If there is someone who doesn`t get anything free in this country it would be the one with white skin.

So you wanna know a little about where I pay my tax,

That would be all the money I am every month pumping into Thailand all over the country.

It would be the almost everyday 100 b to bribe a police officer when driving a big bike in bkk and when just doing nothing wrong.

It would be getting my friends and family from abroad to spend their hollidays here.

etc..

I am a <deleted> ambassador for this country right now! Could you imagine all of us being the opposite... no you wouldn`t understand it could have the slightest impact on Thailand would you.

The better name for us would be,

The Ambassador Tourist!

Edited September 16, 2006 by F1 Visa Runner

[baboon]

I asked the missus yesterday what her opinion was. The response? Get ready for a huge crime wave once the visa runs etc. come to an end.

[angusandtj]

Bendix and nuff said, you guys wouldn`t understand much about a country`s social economy and how it all is connected would you.

If you guys seriously think this whole shit is only about the tourist living here all year round you must be way out of ya mind!

But do you really know what kind of amounts many of us pro-tourists actually are pumping in to this country??

I am pumping hundreds of thousand baht into this country every month. Every single satang coming from abroad. I spend and use more money every month than 30 thais on average income would do.

Of the tens of thousands being here there is no doubt that many spend a lot of many! 10-50 times more a month than the average thai.

Have you two rocket scientists ever thought about many of us are being taxed in other countries?

Not wanting to be taxed in two countries at the same time?

Want to keep it that way as to 1 million times better pension systems thailand could ever offer?

etc..

Do you see us pro-tourist farangs to be to hard on the public systems... Seen many farangs taking the green bus in bkk.. or using public hospitals..

If there is someone who doesn`t get anything free in this country it would be the one with white skin.

So you wanna know a little about where I pay my tax,

That would be all the money I am every month pumping into Thailand all over the country.

It would be the almost everyday 100 b to bribe a police officer when driving a big bike in bkk and when just doing nothing wrong.

It would be getting my friends and family from abroad to spend their hollidays here.

etc..

I am a <deleted> ambassador for this country right now! Could you imagine all of us being the opposite... no you wouldn`t understand it could have the slightest impact on Thailand would you.

The better name for us would be,

The Ambassador Tourist!

Couldn't agree more. Some people just seem to be walking around with blinders on.

[lung]

AmEN

[Thaiquila]

I asked the missus yesterday what her opinion was. The response? Get ready for a huge crime wave once the visa runs etc. come to an end.

Could you clarify what she meant?

Crime wave in general because of the economoc impact, or crime wave targetted at the remaining farangs?

[bkk_mike]

Sunbelt,

What are AIRLINES supposed to do when people show up for flights into Thailand and they see Thai stamps in the passport? How will airlines know whether to board or not? They can't be expected to interpet these new really rather complex rules. If they board, and the person is denied entry, don't they have to pay to fix the problem?

Our understanding, they will count the same as the Immigration officer, the number of 30 day stamps in the last six month period. More than three stamps and the traveler will need a visa from an Embassy/Consulate.

I think the airlines wouldn't accept that, for several reasons.

1. Far too easy to miss a stamp, especially on a frequent traveller's passport.

2. It doesn't work where people have a new passport, or where people have multiple concurrent passports. (Fairly common for offshore oil workers)

3. It's simply too time-consuming when they've got to check-in a 747's worth of passengers.

Far more likely is - it won't apply to air arrivals at all, or people who've hit the limit will be allowed in for a shorter period. (i.e. one or two weeks).

This is the way they are cracking down on them it appears. As opposed to raiding every school in Thailand. Like I said, many employers just don't know how to get work permits for foreigners and don't take the time to find out. This is Thailand, after all, not the States.

Also, sometimes companies or schools want to employ another farang, but all their slots for farang employees are used up due to Thai work permit restrictions. So, what's the option? Work illegally. It happens more often than you think.

Ran into a similar sort of issue. I telecommute to a job in the UK, but the company looked into employing me at their office on Sathorn. HR came back with a no, not because they'd hit a limit for foreigners, but because I wouldn't be reporting to anyone in Thailand, or have anyone reporting to me, but, for a work permit, they needed to show where I am on the company's org chart...

So I still telecommute, and get paid in the UK... I don't have visa issues as my wife's Thai so I'm in the country on a non-O, and I get paid the UK rate for the work I do...

If this was really about tax revenues, they'd simplify the work permit process so that people like me could be paid locally (and pay taxes locally), rather than force us to be paid abroad. (After all - why not just have a rule that work permits are automatic where xx,000 baht a month will be paid in tax..., without the org-chart and number of Thai employees crap that results in companies like mine (part of the Fortune 500 in the US), being unable to pay me locally to telecommute to a job in the UK/US/EU or anywhere else...

Hi All

This is my first post

I was coming to thai in Oct- Nov visiting friends, I was going to get a multi entry non immigrant visa in case i decided to stay for a longer period, I understood I could stay for 90days then leave and come back in. Will i still be able to do that as i would of already stayed my 90 days. is it still posible to leave and come back in to the country say 2 or 3 times so i can stay for the 12 months.

All help appreciated

Warwick

I've been getting multi-entry non-Os for years. So long as you're eligible for one, you get 90 days on arrival, and the visa lets you enter as many times as you like over the year.

The usual reasons for eligibility are being married to a Thai, or for retirement (where the sticking point for many is that you have to be 50). I think you can get a non-O for other things, like learning Thai language, just not sure you can get the multiple version for that.

/Edited to correct typos.

Edited September 16, 2006 by bkk_mike

[zeusbheld]

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

You prat, what a thing to say, bet your dick is as small as your brain.

It is simply the honest and obvious truth, icecubes, regardless of how much you and other prudes would like to deny it.

you imply that IF ones moves to thailand THEN one is a sex tourist.

you also say that martin is a prude. IF martin has moved to thailand AND martin is a prude, then it follows...

that martin is both a sex tourist and a prude?

looks like while you were over here chasing tail, you got distracted by chasing your own tail. i need another tylenol, you're makin' me dizzy.

[Rdrokit]

The notion that Thailand's economy will collapse without the 40,000 a month or so that 20,000 visa runners contribute to the economy in (quote) "condos, beer, beer, beer, taxis, women, women and women" is as laughable as it is patronising.

If people really think the Thai economy is built on this, they are very much mistaken. For a start, the entire tourism industry contributes only 17% to GDP so the pissy little contribution made here isnt going to affect the macro-economy very much.

Thailand's economy would barely miss a heartbeat if all expats stopped spending tomorrow, let alone those caught by these rule changes.

Are farang really so egotistical as to think we are NEEDED in Thailand? We're not needed - we're tolerated. Up to a point.

I agree with Bendix,

What we might see is some of the 5000 bars in Pattaya closing. I am not Pattaya bashing as I live there and love the place but hey, a child living in the city can not walk to a public school without passing a bar and seeing a Happy Hour 9am to 5pm sign and some farang in there at 9am drinking a beer for 35 bt then coming home after school and seeing the same farang. What kind of picture does that paint for a child.

If this new law helps clean up the image of a farang, then here, here. If you want to live here do it legally, learn some Thai and learn Thai customs, otherwise you are a tourist and need to go home after 90 days.

Sorry if I offended anyone. Just one man's opinion.

[Pooklook]

I’m a newbie to the board. I’ve been coming to Asia for 5 years. Usually a week or two with the Thai girlfriend every two months and a few side trips to Cambo, PI, Indo ect... Now with only 3 stamps allowed with VOA and the required 90 days away its going to change my life big time. I also think it’ll have a big impact on the airlines and the hotels because many people I know use BKK as a hub and hang out between business in all parts of SEA. I’m thinking how much fun it’ll be as the person looks through my passport at the dozens of stamps that I’ve gotten over the years that are not in order and tries to determine my status and the lines that might create as the big planes off load..... many things to ponder.....My girlfriend is already freaking out....under 50 and not to many options to be able to come on a regular basis as before. Watching the thai baht now to see if this and other recent moves by the Thai government begin to have an effect as more people become aware of the intended and unintended consequences.

[bkkandrew]

Hi All

This is my first post

I was coming to thai in Oct- Nov visiting friends, I was going to get a multi entry non immigrant visa in case i decided to stay for a longer period, I understood I could stay for 90days then leave and come back in. Will i still be able to do that as i would of already stayed my 90 days. is it still posible to leave and come back in to the country say 2 or 3 times so i can stay for the 12 months.

All help appreciated

Warwick

Just don't come. It will be a mess..From the airport debacle, to the stamp-counting shenanigans, uncertainty over what the entry rules are at local level, the 2.5KM taxi-rank run, the expected flood waters this week, new bombings down south today, Toksin camped in London wile unrest grows in BKK...

Need I say more?

[kasi]

I asked the missus yesterday what her opinion was. The response? Get ready for a huge crime wave once the visa runs etc. come to an end.

Could you clarify what she meant?

Crime wave in general because of the economoc impact, or crime wave targetted at the remaining farangs?

We saw a bit of a crime wave here in Phuket after the tsunami.

Nobody really knows what effect this new policy will have but invariably the smaller businesses will be affected most, who in turn provide livelihoods for many poorer people.

The number of quasi residents making 30 visa runs is huge.

I always thought it was a stupid policy. This new policy will force many out of the country I think and leave many Thai people in a lurch.

Time will tell.