Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Andy Hall summarising the morning's court session in Koh Tao murder trial - 2015-07-22

Source: Heidi Anna

[JLCrab]

Sky News local Thai translator refused to return to court on day two of the trial saying she had been frightened off by the mafia.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6542764/Is-Thai-beach-murders-trial-a-cover-up.html

While I appreciate the link to the news story mentioning 1 Translator being scared off, I was responding to a post (you removed) that said ALL translators were scared off

JTJ: It has been reported by the New York Times that locals are too afraid to be character referees for the accused.

Now we see reliable reports of interpreters and translators being scared for their lives.

In the court itself no reporter is allowed to take notes until the missing DNA has been found.

Does nothing strike you as being a bit unusual??

All the New York Times reports on the Samui trial have been from Reuters or Associated Press (AP) dispatches. The NY Times maintains a full-time bureau in Bangkok with -- my guess -- ample full time Thai translators. However their chief correspondent, Thomas Fuller, filed his last report 20 JULY, 2015 on the burgeoning nightlife in Saigon, Vietnam.

[catsanddogs]

Good to hear that Zaw and Win's mothers are at the court and hope this will bring them some comfort in their ordeal.

[glenmohr]

The Witheridge family said police and the court should be allowed to do their jobs during the coming months.

"Speculation, rumor and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear," said the family.

Just imagine how hurtful it would be for the accused if there was no discussion about the trial and the RTP where to get away with what is essentially murder of the scapegoats.

There are more than the 2 families of the deceased to consider, should the accused's wishes not be considered just as much?

Linky ! You have made a splendid and very valid point.

David and Hannah's families have suffered the most crushing blow.

However there are now two lots of parents from Myanmar awaiting the same fate.

Nothing can now bring David and Hannah back, which is why many of us do not wish this tragedy to become doubled by a hopelessly flawed trial.

The mafia of Koh Tao must not be allowed to get 2 more notches in their belt on top of the myriad of notches they already have celebrated.

[stephenterry]

'snip'

I still have my doubts as to whether the families were actually involved in the crime. I seriously doubt it, they might be corrupt and powerful, but they aren’t stupid - Foreign tourists are the goose that lays the golden eggs.

If I had to put my money on it though, based on personal experiences, I’d pick one of the many beach boy fire dancers that likes to party hard - as most of them are packing weapons, feel they are entitled to western women, and aren’t scared to fight. And they’d be off the island on the next boat - many of them are drifters, and spend time on Tao, Phangan, Krabi, Phuket etc… wherever the next tip bucket of tourist money and skipping ropes on fire is. These were also the Thais that tended to mess around with Yaba.

I do however believe that the families did cover it up, and so do many locals or former locals. Just like previous suspicious deaths and murders have been covered up. They were just too ignorant to realise how something like this would be perceived by the western media in the era of social media.

The fact is, we will never know who did it - I doubt it was a local family, I really doubt old Nomsod had anything to do with it either - theres no real reason for it, I doubt even more that it was the two burmese kids. My guess is that the person who did it was Thai, not connected closely with local families and definitely not Hiso, but enough that he’d cause them to lose face, got the hell out of dodge the next morning and the locals covered it up. They had orders from high to solve the case quickly so that Sean first made a good patsy, but that didn’t work so Burmese were blamed. The failures of the case are more to do with Thainess, Face and that the only thing the local coppers are actually experienced at is taking bribes than anything else - remember, the police officers PAY to be there.

I think regardless of the evidence that the Burmese will be found guilty, but probably jailed rather than face the death penalty. And whoever did it is probably working on some beach, somewhere else in Thailand for tips.

Clarification required, please, Mike.

Not withstanding all of the above (and an excellent insight), what puzzles me is (if none of the family was involved but a fire-dancer was) why would they want to cover it up? How can they cover it up - there's two victims dead on their patch? And why is it loss of face? Because a Thai person killed them?

Thai people do kill others left, right, and centre - why is this different? Because the victims were farang?

[PaPiPuPePo]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity, no?

[glenmohr]

how about not cluttering up this thread with all the off topic personal attacks and other nonsense

One translator was scared off, that in my books would be enough to make any potential alternative translator to think twice about getting involved, it is that simple

end of conversation

Reuters have a translator in place. That's good enough for the press to feed off. And the various tweets coming from the court as the trial progresses, keeps posters here up to date.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/22/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0PW03320150722

Correct Stephen except Amy Sawitta Lefevre ( the Reuter's East Asian correspondent) does not need an interpreter. She is a UK educated ethnic Thai. The perfect reporter to have at this event.

[catsanddogs]

Andy Hall summarising the morning's court session in Koh Tao murder trial - 2015-07-22

Source: Heidi Anna

Andy Halls says CCTV footage shows Hannah entering the AC bar at 1am and David entering the bar at 2am.He says this is the last footage available of them. He says the CCTV footage does not link the B2 to the crime and that this afternoon the court will look at CCTV footage of the man seeing running around 4am who the prosecution say is Win.

Edited July 22, 2015 by catsanddogs

[Darkknight666]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity , no?

Anywhere but Thailand or maybe Brazil it's an irregularity for sure. I hope it's found today that "running man" isn't Mon. That's easy to see.

Edit:typo

Edited July 22, 2015 by Darkknight666

[catsanddogs]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity, no?

PaPi - if you want to know the possible significance of Mon on the crime scene according to TV posters you will need to go back over many threads on here since Sept '14. A 'significant irregularity' would seem to sum up many posters thoughts though.

[webfact]

Koh Tao murder trial resumes in the Koh Samui provincial court

KOH SAMUI: -- Today the Koh Tao murder trial resumed in the Koh Samui provincial court. The mothers of the accused, Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin flew in from Myanmar for the hearing.

The two migrant workers are standing trail for the murder and rape of Hannah Witheridge and the murder of David Miller last September in Koh Tao. Both men, who originally pleaded guilty to the charges, have changed their plea to not guilty and claim they were forced to confess.

The hearing in the morning focused mainly on CCTV footage from the island and on the victims last movements, it is expected that the afternoon session will focus on CCTV footage of a running man close to the beach where the pair were killed. The hearing will continue through Thursday and Friday of this week before taking a break to recommence on the 18th of August.


-- Samui Times 2015-07-22

[stephenterry]

how about not cluttering up this thread with all the off topic personal attacks and other nonsense

One translator was scared off, that in my books would be enough to make any potential alternative translator to think twice about getting involved, it is that simple

end of conversation

Reuters have a translator in place. That's good enough for the press to feed off. And the various tweets coming from the court as the trial progresses, keeps posters here up to date.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/22/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0PW03320150722

Correct Stephen except Amy Sawitta Lefevre ( the Reuter's East Asian correspondent) does not need an interpreter. She is a UK educated ethnic Thai. The perfect reporter to have at this event.

Yeah, I realise that, and I never mentioned an 'interpreter'. Presumably she is going to translate aspects from the trial from Thai to English. Why is that confusing? Or is she just going to talk in English and not write a written report?

Edited July 22, 2015 by stephenterry

[pinkpanther99]

"The hearing will continue through Thursday and Friday of this week before taking a break to recommence on the 18th of August."

So after this week there will be a break of almost one month! For what?

I guess we all knew it already, but the authorities are not in the least bit interested in finding justice here.

SHAME ON THEM.

[Dogmatix]

So yeah - It’s been a while since I’ve posted on Thai Visa for a variety of things, most importantly due to Facebook Login not working properly and me forgetting my password/my username being my real name rather than my handle etc. Also was dealing with moving countries, getting my visa sorted and a family tragedy.

I’m the person who posted the original blog post “The Dark Side of Paradise” which has been often quoted with regards to info on the workings of Koh Tao etc (here: http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/)I lived in Sairee and Chalok, and used to work as a DJ 3-4 nights a week during the high season in both Sairee and Chalok. I didn’t think that when I posted it, that it would go so viral, getting shared on Facebook around 8,000 times. More recently I provided some of the information that was used in the Time article that came out last week: http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-burma-myanmar/

Thought I’d post a few things to address stuff that I’ve noticed, factual inaccuracies - and also a bit of a smear campaign originating from you guessed it - staff at businesses associated a certain family directed at myself. The Farang owner/manager of one bar (while at the same time, the former owner is posting stuff critical of the case on his personal page) - which is situated on land controlled by the same family has been posting wonderful stories on the Koh Tao Community Forum (where I’m blocked - for obvious reasons) about me in an attempt to smear me etc. Which just goes to show how in the pocket of the locals certain foreign expats are. I would post more about him, but I’m guessing the post would get taken down due to Thailand’s computer crimes act and defamation laws.

These ridiculous claims claims include:

* That I got “busted” stealing from donation boxes (Which is a completely insane claim)

* That I didn’t get a job as a DJ (I had a DJ residency at Bar Next 2 on Koh Tao, left for one at the Beach Village/Ku Club in Koh Phangan)

The real reasons that I left the Islands were due to trusting the wrong people and getting involved with a business where I loaned cash to an untrustworthy Farang (things went really down hill when he pulled a homemade 12 gauge pistol out to settle a business dispute) on Phangan, and getting screwed around with regards to getting my work permit sorted. Got shaken down by Samui immigration and local mafia started moving in on the business - ended up meeting my American (now wife) up in Bangkok while laying low, then the coup happened, and she was involved in research at Thammasat - we ended up leaving due to her professors getting rounded up for improving the countries happiness etc. That and she was researching human trafficking and migration, along with Thai politics, which considering the circumstances with Phuketwan - Thailand isn’t the safest place to be doing so.

Anyway - now that that is out of the way some general thoughts (I won’t name any names - because that will result in the post being taken down instantly due to forum rules):

Firstly - the Police that were there at the time were corrupt as sin. I know this, because I’ve been there when bribes were being paid (to the police officers who were involved in the case), I’ve seen them at parties, I’ve served them beer, and I’ve hung out with them (especially when certain VIPs who cannot be discussed due to forum rules or S112 were down on the Island diving - though these included off island police from Bangkok). (Then again, I’ve also been present on Phangan when the local coppers dropped off a bunch of unregistered firearms to my neighbour who was a Biker from Songkla).

There are local Thais who keep watch at Mae Haad for officials from off the island. As soon as they arrive a message goes out on the Koh Tao Rescue radio that most bar owners and business owners have access to. This stops outsiders from interfering with the workings of the island and allows western workers to leave the premises before being shaken down by immigration. I’ve also witnessed Samui immigration give “heads up texts” to business owners with significant western staff before hitting the island in return for cash kickbacks (on both Tao and Phangan).

The fact is - if you live long term in any of the island beach areas, and aren’t a 40+ year old sexpat, you’ll have witnessed the many dodgy dealings that go on in Thailand. Anyone who says otherwise is either a mormon missionary, or lying.

I’ve been present when Thai bar owners have done coke off the toilets and then told me how they could get me killed/arrested/protected when they were on a paranoid cocaine high. These same bar owners were in a running feud with with other bar owners on the beach, and were threatening to put drugs in peoples motorbikes to get them arrested. This is the same bar that when under previous owners had a well known local shot dead on the dance floor before closing down and being renamed. The shooter was caught on CCTV, and many locals have seen the footage. Of course being Thai on Thai - most don’t know about this, but the shooter still hangs around Freedom beach a lot.

I know of Farangs who were importing LSD onto the island in paperback novels and selling it to tourists. I know of other farangs who have been busted multiple times with coke, and are basically under the complete control of both the police and - you guessed it, a certain important family with close connections to said police officers.

I know that Cannabis and Mushrooms are sold openly at High Bar in Chalok Baan Kao, the reggae place in Mae Haad and Mol’s beach bar in Ao Hin Wong. Previous Farangs who were involved in the drug trade out of a certain resort now operate a bar that’s out of the way, but still often has police checkpoints outside it on the regular for pee tests. All of this is with local police knowledge, involvement and consent.

I’ve been present when Thai fire dancers from different bars have gotten into an argument, and both hand guns and knives have been pulled out. I’m assuming this was probably over a girl. Note that these fire dancers don’t tend to be related to a family by blood, but are usually Thais from other areas, who are VERY territorial regarding their patch (where they get tips).

I’ve seen Thai staff linked to families steal money from the till of bars. Then attempts to stitch up Farang staff (who were obviously working without a permit) because it would avoid a loss of face, the Thais were in fact working for the landlords of said bar… it’s completely insane.

I’ve got a friend who was DJing on the island who had 5 Thai males pull handguns on him when his party was more successful than another party down the road. You can guess which family was involved in this. He since moved away from the rock.

I’ve seen local Burmese get really touchy feely with people after a few drinks, especially one that was former military. It got to a point when I was there that many burmese were banned from drinking at bars.

Then of course there is the German who runs the motorbike rental place in Mae Haad, who has a long reputation of ripping off tourists, and even pulling a gun on them in order to extort money out of them. All of which is done with the consent on the local police and families.

A lot of what’s been posted by the Arm Chair detectives is merely heresay and clutching at straws, but these are things that have happened and continue to happen on the rock. The locals have loose lips when they get on the booze or drugs down there. Also there are a lot of people who have lived on the island for some time who have left in disgust, and are speaking more openly about what goes on. Of course none of this answers “who done it” , just the mentality of the place, and the sort of behaviour which is considered to be acceptable down there.

I still have my doubts as to whether the families were actually involved in the crime. I seriously doubt it, they might be corrupt and powerful, but they aren’t stupid - Foreign tourists are the goose that lays the golden eggs.

If I had to put my money on it though, based on personal experiences, I’d pick one of the many beach boy fire dancers that likes to party hard - as most of them are packing weapons, feel they are entitled to western women, and aren’t scared to fight. And they’d be off the island on the next boat - many of them are drifters, and spend time on Tao, Phangan, Krabi, Phuket etc… wherever the next tip bucket of tourist money and skipping ropes on fire is. These were also the Thais that tended to mess around with Yaba.

One of my female friends who lived on the island nearly got into a particularly dangerous situation involving one of them and lots of booze when I was there.

With regards to posters on here with island connections, I’m guessing that one is connected to a certain park that is near Mae Had, while the French connections are probably based in Chalok. Some western expats have been on the Island on and off for close to 20 years.

It still however is pointless speculation.

Even though the local DJs have posted some terrible stuff on Facebook, they are more “long term” and tend to have expat or local girlfriends and don’t want to mess up their own lifestyle. As for the pictures of guns and stuff on their personal Facebook pages - you’d find the same things on mine as well, so it’s hardly evidence of anything. They are all just acting tough, trying to look gangster etc, typical posturing etc.

I do however believe that the families did cover it up, and so do many locals or former locals. Just like previous suspicious deaths and murders have been covered up. They were just too ignorant to realise how something like this would be perceived by the western media in the era of social media.

The fact is, we will never know who did it - I doubt it was a local family, I really doubt old Nomsod had anything to do with it either - theres no real reason for it, I doubt even more that it was the two burmese kids. My guess is that the person who did it was Thai, not connected closely with local families and definitely not Hiso, but enough that he’d cause them to lose face, got the hell out of dodge the next morning and the locals covered it up. They had orders from high to solve the case quickly so that Sean first made a good patsy, but that didn’t work so Burmese were blamed. The failures of the case are more to do with Thainess, Face and that the only thing the local coppers are actually experienced at is taking bribes than anything else - remember, the police officers PAY to be there.

I think regardless of the evidence that the Burmese will be found guilty, but probably jailed rather than face the death penalty. And whoever did it is probably working on some beach, somewhere else in Thailand for tips.

So it was the mysterious third hand fire dancer that did it. Just like the murder that Chalerm's son was tried for that turned out to have been committed by a man named Puet, a mysterious police informer, who was only seen by the defence witnesses dashing in and out to murder a police officer, with a tiny .25 semi-automatic (a gun of an unusual calibre in Thailand but of a type that Chalerm's wife had coincidentally reported lost or stolen) for no apparent reason. Chalerm vowed to get Puet, if he took his whole life, but now 11 years later he seems to have made little progress and the trail has turned cold. I guess that Puet is probably on the same beach with the strung out fire dancer, reliving the pleasure of shooting a policeman in the head at point blank range and laughing at Chalerm and the rest of the RTP. But he must feel somewhat upstaged now.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Dogmatix

[bruceybonus]

Still absolutely staggered by this case. How countries of this ilk are allowed to advertise tourism in western countries is beyond me. All adverts in the UK should be banned & the country should be described as dangerous by the UK embasyy. If the worst roads/drivers in the world don't get you, some scumbag with a gimp arm & his henchman will.

That's ridiculous. Thailand is as dangerous as any other developing country and the Foreign Office website has plenty of warnings for travellers. This is a distressing case but so is any rape/murder, irrespective of where it happens and if people expect western style justice in developing countries they are going to be disappointed.

The most dangerous roads in the world, plus no other developing country gets so much worldwide negative attention.

[boomerangutang]

to MikeENZ; thanks for sharing with us - your personal observations - up close, on those islands. Interesting insights. However, you mention how you doubt the Headman's family are directly involved. We're each entitled to our opinions and, unless you know something we don't know, (I t hink) they could be involved, either directly or peripherally. You admit you haven't resided on the island for some time (months, years?), so you're basing your assumptions on the prevalent scenarios of prior times. I'm sure much is the same at those islands, re; drugs, weapons, date-rapes, corrupt police, etc. Still, unless you have something more tangible (to discount direct involvement in the crime by any of the H's family), then you're in a similar boat as the rest of us: assumptions based on bits of info which trickle down to the public domain.

So GB and friends. Why have you not touched my last post? Because that's one thing you can't justify away?

The Witheridge family said police and the court should be allowed to do their jobs during the coming months.

"Speculation, rumor and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear," said the family.

We're aiming for the same things the two British families are aiming for: trying to determine who really did the crime, and who's been putting obstacles in the way of the investigation. There are the two families of the victims, and there are 2 families of the scapegoats. Then there are families who don't yet know they'll experience similar heartbreak, when all of a sudden they hear their loved one has been savagely murdered on KT. Whomever killed D and H probably killed before, and will likely kill again.

Additionally, Thai RTP have a whole lot of learning to do - about how to do crime investigations. Hopefully, they'll learn something to improve their skills. And also: how it's not as easy to nowadays (with social media) to simply announce BS and have everyone accept, however grudgingly. RTP are being called to account, and they don't like it. It's like a large shop full of metal workers, who have a slack/corrupt boss who allows them to keep getting their paychecks while doing sloppy work. Now, they're being watched by the general public, and sloppy and dishonest work is not tolerated. It's being announced in public forums. Fungi like dark damp places. green leafy plants like sunlight - which is also disinfecting. We're shining the sun on RTP. Get used to it, RTP. Clean up your act! Social media is not going to wilt away.

[jimmybkk]

A couple of posters recently have mentioned the DNA testing of one individual being delayed by "one full week”. I am not sure where that misinformation came from but here are a few reminders of the facts regarding the timeline of events:

The murders occurred on the 15^th September 2014. Soon after, the rumours of a particular individual’s involvement began circulating. The individual in question apparently heard of these rumours very quickly because he later stated: “I haven't attended classes since the incident occurred because people keep asking me if I am the killer.“ (Source: A popular English language daily that we can’t link to).

Now, here’s what I find weird:

• He knows the finger of suspicion is being pointed at him.
• He later says that the allegations of his involvement in the murders had ruined his life.
• He claims he was over 400km away from the crime scene at the time the murders occurred.
• And yet instead of going to the cops to explain everything he decides that the best way to end all the speculation and get his life back to normal is to go underground… Way to go Son…! I mean, if what you’re trying to achieve is the appearance of being guilty…

Meanwhile (also weird):

The 2 accused and their pal, despite being Burmese migrant workers and thus having very little social standing in the community, displayed balls of steel by deciding to stick around and see how the whole thing plays out… Not even bothering to dispose of a collection of iphones they had apparently accumulated, and even being so bold as to leave a gun and a hand grenade in their accommodation quarters, whilst they enjoyed activities such as a game of takraw on the beach. How’s that for confidence…?

And then on the 24^th September 2014, a full 9 days after the murders took place, this article appears in Khao Sod: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411548167

So now they are actually naming the individual in question and stating that he is the prime suspect.

Which would surely mean (the weirdest of all):

• The police have been investigating the case for 9 days.
• (Apparently) no witnesses have been questioned who are prepared to state that this individual was on the island at the time.
• They have studied the hundreds/thousands of hours of CCTV footage from the 300+ cameras dotted around the island.
• (Apparently) none of the CCTV footage has captured any images showing this individual being present on the island at the time.

And yet:

• They decide to release his name as being their prime suspect(!!) despite the fact that he is the son of (allegedly) the most well-connected, powerful and influential person on the island. Way to go with picking yourselves a prime suspect guys…
  

And then:

• On the 25^th September 2014 when his lawyer finally presents still images from CCTV apparently proving this individual’s presence in Bangkok at the time of the murders, the police rule him out as a suspect, without even asking for a DNA test.
• On the 30^th October 2014, 6 weeks after the murders took place, this individual volunteers to take a DNA test and it is found not to be a match with DNA found at the crime scene.

That is one weird sequence of events – I can’t get my head around it.

[PaPiPuPePo]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity, no?

PaPi - if you want to know the possible significance of Mon on the crime scene according to TV posters you will need to go back over many threads on here since Sept '14. A 'significant irregularity' would seem to sum up many posters thoughts though.

Yes, I'm aware, I was being rhetorical.

It may be done and condoned in Thailand, but it's still not correct/irregular/plain wrong and should rightly be another thing impugning the professionalism and credibility of the investigation.

[stephenterry]

'snip' The failures of the case are more to do with Thainess, Face and that the only thing the local coppers are actually experienced at is taking bribes than anything else - remember, the police officers PAY to be there.

I think regardless of the evidence that the Burmese will be found guilty, but probably jailed rather than face the death penalty. And whoever did it is probably working on some beach, somewhere else in Thailand for tips.

So it was the mysterious third hand fire dancer that did it. Just like the murder that Chalerm's son was tried for that turned out to have been committed by a man named Puet, a mysterious police informer, who was only seen by the defence witnesses dashing in and out to murder a police officer, with a tiny .25 semi-automatic (a gun of an unusual calibre in Thailand but of a type that Chalerm's wife had coincidentally reported lost or stolen) for no apparent reason. Chalerm vowed to get Puet, if he took his whole life, but now 11 years later he seems to have made little progress and the trail has turned cold. I guess that Puet is probably on the same beach with the strung out fire dancer, reliving the pleasure of shooting a policeman in the head at point blank range and laughing at Chalerm and the rest of the RTP. But he must feel somewhat upstaged now.

I find it difficult to believe that RTP and local police have put all this time and effort into setting the B2 up without some financial incentive. What's in it for them, in convicting the B2? To protect a fire-dancer?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

[balo]

Andy Hall summarising the morning's court session in Koh Tao murder trial - 2015-07-22

Source: Heidi Anna

Andy Halls says CCTV footage shows Hannah entering the AC bar at 1am and David entering the bar at 2am.He says this is the last footage available of them. He says the CCTV footage does not link the B2 to the crime and that this afternoon the court will look at CCTV footage of the man seeing running around 4am who the prosecution say is Win.

Now this is actually progress, finally we can hear something from the court instead of the ongoing BS in this thread. Less BS and more facts from the court please.

The running man , who is he ? The TV experts in here thinks it's the headman son. Lets see if the court agree.

[technologybytes]

"The hearing will continue through Thursday and Friday of this week before taking a break to recommence on the 18th of August."

So after this week there will be a break of almost one month! For what?

I guess we all knew it already, but the authorities are not in the least bit interested in finding justice here.

SHAME ON THEM.

I don't know about the USA, but in the UK the trial courts stop for a summer break of about the same time.

[boomerangutang]

The running man , who is he ? The TV experts in here thinks it's the headman son. Lets see if the court agree.

The court will see what RTP want them to see (I hope I'm wrong on that). In the video, it's assumed the prosecution will say 'Running Man' is one of the Burmese. Which one? the one who is a foot shorter, or the one who is 14 inches shorter?

As for time: AH mentions the same CCTV that we, concerned netizens have been viewing for 10 months - or at least it appears that way.

>>> Hannah entering AC bar from sidewalk at 1 am

>>> David entering same at around 2 am

>>> apparently no CCTV of either leaving. We can probably thank Mon for fixing that omission.

>>> The B3 on a motorbike with a white dog nearby, at 11-something.

.....so, unless the prosecution has any CCTV footage that we have not yet seen, all those scenes are from 2.5 to 5 hours BEFORE the crime commenced. That's a lot of time at a party beach. And still NO CCTV FROM INSIDE ANY OF THE BARS. NONE! Not even any pics/videos from individuals. There wouldn't be a cover-up by people trying to shield the Headman's people, would there?! Perish the thought.

[stephenterry]

Andy Hall summarising the morning's court session in Koh Tao murder trial - 2015-07-22

Source: Heidi Anna

Andy Halls says CCTV footage shows Hannah entering the AC bar at 1am and David entering the bar at 2am.He says this is the last footage available of them. He says the CCTV footage does not link the B2 to the crime and that this afternoon the court will look at CCTV footage of the man seeing running around 4am who the prosecution say is Win.

Now this is actually progress, finally we can hear something from the court instead of the ongoing BS in this thread. Less BS and more facts from the court please.

The running man , who is he ? The TV experts in here thinks it's the headman son. Lets see if the court agree.

Well, I'll add a real fact to counter your statement. The onus is on the prosecution to 'prove' the running man is Win. If the defence is permitted to challenge that assertion, that's what would be interesting. The image is so poor that there should be reasonable doubt in asserting it was person A or person B.

If this trial was in the UK, there are forensic specialists who can determine who this person was likely to be by the gait of his walk - everyone's unique. As it happens they would only have to compare Win's walk (or Nomsod, for that matter) with the CCTV to prove or discount it was him.

But we're not in the UK...

As Boom states, Win will have to grow a few more inches to make him this suspect... Nomsod wouldn't.

Edited July 22, 2015 by stephenterry

[Darkknight666]

I doubt the B2 can read or write Thai, could be wrong I suppose.

[catsanddogs]

A couple of posters recently have mentioned the DNA testing of one individual being delayed by "one full week”. I am not sure where that misinformation came from but here are a few reminders of the facts regarding the timeline of events:

The murders occurred on the 15^th September 2014. Soon after, the rumours of a particular individual’s involvement began circulating. The individual in question apparently heard of these rumours very quickly because he later stated: “I haven't attended classes since the incident occurred because people keep asking me if I am the killer.“ (Source: A popular English language daily that we can’t link to).

Now, here’s what I find weird:

• He knows the finger of suspicion is being pointed at him.
• He later says that the allegations of his involvement in the murders had ruined his life.
• He claims he was over 400km away from the crime scene at the time the murders occurred.
• And yet instead of going to the cops to explain everything he decides that the best way to end all the speculation and get his life back to normal is to go underground… Way to go Son…! I mean, if what you’re trying to achieve is the appearance of being guilty…

Meanwhile (also weird):

The 2 accused and their pal, despite being Burmese migrant workers and thus having very little social standing in the community, displayed balls of steel by deciding to stick around and see how the whole thing plays out… Not even bothering to dispose of a collection of iphones they had apparently accumulated, and even being so bold as to leave a gun and a hand grenade in their accommodation quarters, whilst they enjoyed activities such as a game of takraw on the beach. How’s that for confidence…?

And then on the 24^th September 2014, a full 9 days after the murders took place, this article appears in Khao Sod: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411548167

So now they are actually naming the individual in question and stating that he is the prime suspect.

Which would surely mean (the weirdest of all):

• The police have been investigating the case for 9 days.
• (Apparently) no witnesses have been questioned who are prepared to state that this individual was on the island at the time.
• They have studied the hundreds/thousands of hours of CCTV footage from the 300+ cameras dotted around the island.
• (Apparently) none of the CCTV footage has captured any images showing this individual being present on the island at the time.

And yet:

• They decide to release his name as being their prime suspect(!!) despite the fact that he is the son of (allegedly) the most well-connected, powerful and influential person on the island. Way to go with picking yourselves a prime suspect guys…

And then:

• On the 25^th September 2014 when his lawyer finally presents still images from CCTV apparently proving this individual’s presence in Bangkok at the time of the murders, the police rule him out as a suspect, without even asking for a DNA test.
• On the 30^th October 2014, 6 weeks after the murders took place, this individual volunteers to take a DNA test and it is found not to be a match with DNA found at the crime scene.

That is one weird sequence of events – I can’t get my head around it.

Great informative post Jimmy. I'd like to add that the timing of the suspects joining the monk hood cannot but further suspicion. Is anyone reading this forum able to provide evidence that police commander Panya Maman is alive and well?

[StealthEnergiser]

The running man , who is he ? The TV experts in here thinks it's the headman son. Lets see if the court agree.

The court will see what RTP want them to see (I hope I'm wrong on that). In the video, it's assumed the prosecution will say 'Running Man' is one of the Burmese. Which one? the one who is a foot shorter, or the one who is 14 inches shorter?

As for time: AH mentions the same CCTV that we, concerned netizens have been viewing for 10 months - or at least it appears that way.

>>> Hannah entering AC bar from sidewalk at 1 am

>>> David entering same at around 2 am

>>> apparently no CCTV of either leaving. We can probably thank Mon for fixing that omission.

>>> The B3 on a motorbike with a white dog nearby, at 11-something.

.....so, unless the prosecution has any CCTV footage that we have not yet seen, all those scenes are from 2.5 to 5 hours BEFORE the crime commenced. That's a lot of time at a party beach. And still NO CCTV FROM INSIDE ANY OF THE BARS. NONE! Not even any pics/videos from individuals. There wouldn't be a cover-up by people trying to shield the Headman's people, would there?! Perish the thought.

How could you possibly think there was a cover up ?

[Chetzee]

stephen Terry

"I find it difficult to believe that RTP and local police have put all this time and effort into setting the B2 up without some financial incentive. What's in it for them, in convicting the B2? To protect a fire-dancer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. "

i thought Mike's post offered up some real insight , and fire-dancers would certainly fit the bill ...

lets remember there was a big party at AC that night to celebrate the end of the football tournament . No doubt ,many different crews from the local bars and other islands were part of that party .

Using the old adage "never s..hit on your own doorstep " i can perfectly see that the local boss would do all he could to cover up this graphic murder , even if it had nothing what so ever to do with him and his businesses , other than that the party was at his place . He would go out of his way to avoid a root and branch investigation to his business operation.

The old man does not seem a pleasant person , but do not for one moment think that he is not a very bright spark indeed . You do not hold on to power in a place like KT without knowing all the moves . He has made a fortune over the years , and unlike some in my country that have fortunes thrust upon them , he has not squandered it ........ he has educated his kids to the highest level , he has used his wealth to gain influence in some very high places , he will have leant that just having a shed load of cash does not open all the doors for you , and that being part of the "real elite " requires an education that he was not allowed , but he has provided for his Son and heir.

who can remember back early on the AC bar being raided , and narcotics being found ? what of that ..... clearly stamped on pretty hard , and no doubt put down to an employee... but in those early days the heat was on , and even for the old man it seemed a scary place to be . for all that he had gained could crumble around him because of the callous actions of some drunk / high party goers s ..hiting on his doorstep .

so sure the panic button got hit , and the smoke and mirrors started .... self preservation is a very human instinct .

[stephenterry]

stephen Terry

"I find it difficult to believe that RTP and local police have put all this time and effort into setting the B2 up without some financial incentive. What's in it for them, in convicting the B2? To protect a fire-dancer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. "

i thought Mike's post offered up some real insight , and fire-dancers would certainly fit the bill ...

lets remember there was a big party at AC that night to celebrate the end of the football tournament . No doubt ,many different crews from the local bars and other islands were part of that party .

Using the old adage "never s..hit on your own doorstep " i can perfectly see that the local boss would do all he could to cover up this graphic murder , even if it had nothing what so ever to do with him and his businesses , other than that the party was at his place . He would go out of his way to avoid a root and branch investigation to his business operation.

The old man does not seem a pleasant person , but do not for one moment think that he is not a very bright spark indeed . You do not hold on to power in a place like KT without knowing all the moves . He has made a fortune over the years , and unlike some in my country that have fortunes thrust upon them , he has not squandered it ........ he has educated his kids to the highest level , he has used his wealth to gain influence in some very high places , he will have leant that just having a shed load of cash does not open all the doors for you , and that being part of the "real elite " requires an education that he was not allowed , but he has provided for his Son and heir.

who can remember back early on the AC bar being raided , and narcotics being found ? what of that ..... clearly stamped on pretty hard , and no doubt put down to an employee... but in those early days the heat was on , and even for the old man it seemed a scary place to be . for all that he had gained could crumble around him because of the callous actions of some drunk / high party goers s ..hiting on his doorstep .

so sure the panic button got hit , and the smoke and mirrors started .... self preservation is a very human instinct .

Okay, you have an opinion. I don't think for one moment the headman would be concerned about any investigation into his 'business' - that's all been paid for. There's a party - so what? Why would he see the need to protect fire-dancers? And how can he cover it up - there's two dead bodies on the beach?

My point is what I've written. What's in it for anyone to set up the B2? Think about that. Why are the B2 so much more special (to the Headman) than fire dancers?

[Rykbanlor]

stephen Terry

"I find it difficult to believe that RTP and local police have put all this time and effort into setting the B2 up without some financial incentive. What's in it for them, in convicting the B2? To protect a fire-dancer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. "

i thought Mike's post offered up some real insight , and fire-dancers would certainly fit the bill ...

lets remember there was a big party at AC that night to celebrate the end of the football tournament . No doubt ,many different crews from the local bars and other islands were part of that party .

Using the old adage "never s..hit on your own doorstep " i can perfectly see that the local boss would do all he could to cover up this graphic murder , even if it had nothing what so ever to do with him and his businesses , other than that the party was at his place . He would go out of his way to avoid a root and branch investigation to his business operation.

The old man does not seem a pleasant person , but do not for one moment think that he is not a very bright spark indeed . You do not hold on to power in a place like KT without knowing all the moves . He has made a fortune over the years , and unlike some in my country that have fortunes thrust upon them , he has not squandered it ........ he has educated his kids to the highest level , he has used his wealth to gain influence in some very high places , he will have leant that just having a shed load of cash does not open all the doors for you , and that being part of the "real elite " requires an education that he was not allowed , but he has provided for his Son and heir.

who can remember back early on the AC bar being raided , and narcotics being found ? what of that ..... clearly stamped on pretty hard , and no doubt put down to an employee... but in those early days the heat was on , and even for the old man it seemed a scary place to be . for all that he had gained could crumble around him because of the callous actions of some drunk / high party goers s ..hiting on his doorstep .

so sure the panic button got hit , and the smoke and mirrors started .... self preservation is a very human instinct .

Okay, you have an opinion. I don't think for one moment the headman would be concerned about any investigation into his 'business' - that's all been paid for. There's a party - so what? Why would he see the need to protect fire-dancers? And how can he cover it up - there's two dead bodies on the beach?

My point is what I've written. What's in it for anyone to set up the B2? Think about that. Why are the B2 so much more special (to the Headman) than fire dancers?

Agreed, I can see why the fire-dancers might be viewed as possible suspects, but as Stephen notes, why would someone with the power and influence go to these incredible lengths to protect the guys. If it is a cover-up, I am sure there is a firmer connection between the culprits and the up-coverers than just being some loosely affiliated drifters that are chummy with them and perform at their bars.

[Chetzee]

stephen Terry

"I find it difficult to believe that RTP and local police have put all this time and effort into setting the B2 up without some financial incentive. What's in it for them, in convicting the B2? To protect a fire-dancer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. "

i thought Mike's post offered up some real insight , and fire-dancers would certainly fit the bill ...

lets remember there was a big party at AC that night to celebrate the end of the football tournament . No doubt ,many different crews from the local bars and other islands were part of that party .

Using the old adage "never s..hit on your own doorstep " i can perfectly see that the local boss would do all he could to cover up this graphic murder , even if it had nothing what so ever to do with him and his businesses , other than that the party was at his place . He would go out of his way to avoid a root and branch investigation to his business operation.

The old man does not seem a pleasant person , but do not for one moment think that he is not a very bright spark indeed . You do not hold on to power in a place like KT without knowing all the moves . He has made a fortune over the years , and unlike some in my country that have fortunes thrust upon them , he has not squandered it ........ he has educated his kids to the highest level , he has used his wealth to gain influence in some very high places , he will have leant that just having a shed load of cash does not open all the doors for you , and that being part of the "real elite " requires an education that he was not allowed , but he has provided for his Son and heir.

who can remember back early on the AC bar being raided , and narcotics being found ? what of that ..... clearly stamped on pretty hard , and no doubt put down to an employee... but in those early days the heat was on , and even for the old man it seemed a scary place to be . for all that he had gained could crumble around him because of the callous actions of some drunk / high party goers s ..hiting on his doorstep .

so sure the panic button got hit , and the smoke and mirrors started .... self preservation is a very human instinct .

Okay, you have an opinion. I don't think for one moment the headman would be concerned about any investigation into his 'business' - that's all been paid for. There's a party - so what? Why would he see the need to protect fire-dancers? And how can he cover it up - there's two dead bodies on the beach?

My point is what I've written. What's in it for anyone to set up the B2? Think about that. Why are the B2 so much more special (to the Headman) than fire dancers?

and i 'm just saying , i don't think this has anything to do with protecting fire dancers at all .... the protection is for a very much larger project !