Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Rykbanlor]

If thats correct about the photo then thank you for pointing that out. If you were in there then I take it you saw Hannah and David?

I didn't know Hannah & David so wouldn't have recognized them from any of the other customers at AC bar that night. I know the staff & on the rare occasions Dodo comes down from Bangkok he always comes to say hello, but I didn't see him around the bar A fight would have been more noticeable than individual customers but I don't remember any problems in there. Im not here to speculate what happened. Regardless of the guilt or innocence of the Burmese suspects I don't believe Dodo or the AC staff were involved in this tragedy. I only posted to highlight the incorrect bar picture. If people are going to speculate & theorise, check & double check the "evidence' you're using

Shame you didn't come forward sooner - it might have put a halt to months of baseless speculation

[stephenterry]

No point bothering to respond to GB - it's all old hat rhetoric, rehashed in every which way as are most posts from the others who still think there is a sound case to answer. As there is a month's wait until the next trial date, maybe it's a time to give it a deserved rest unless we hear any new statements.

[Nigeone]

GOLDBUGGY

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

Your of course your assuming there is actually a case against the B2 though aren't you.. There's no evidence I've seen to remotely suggest this yet. Can you show me any. However there could be evidence from the CCTV that shows somebody else who could be implicated to the crime. Keep all options open I would suggest is a good habit in policing.! What if that same CCTV was examined and showed a certain person on the images. How do you know it wouldn't. It hasn't been looked at.

[Si Thea01]

is "dodo" the same person as numbnuts, the one seen running in the video?

Yes, Dodo, or Nomsod. The one who we saw his televised DNA show, and were told he was no match, and then discovered in court yesterday that actually, the report of his DNA test was never recieved - the lead investigator admitted that, and furthermore that he did not know where the samples are.

The police also well aware of rumours that an altercation took place involving him at the AC bar, but they didn't think it was worth following up.

Some people fall so easily for spin it's not even funny.

Do you know why the people investigating the Koh Tao murders didn't get those DNA results?

Because that DNA test was done on the 30th of October, almost a month after the men on trial were arrested and it was done to appease Social Media gossip not as part of the crime investigation; the police never requested a DNA test because he wasn't on the island on the day of the murders.

How strange that they didn't follow the rumors of a fight at a bar involving a person that wasn't physically there at the time.

And there's your spinner! So they only DNA tested for the public's benefit, and then tossed the reports and samples in the bin, Yep, that makes sense. How strange they didn't investigate rumours,...........Even rumours should be investigated - Police often have to deal with rumours, some of which turn out to be true.

Did you also read the Daily Mail article that listed all the things the Police, the lead investigator, didn't know, didn't consider, or didn't bother to chase up?

Kindly break it down and send your explanation for each instance of the lead investigator not knowing or doing or investigating something and how it is excusable.

We will wait.

Don't often agree with what you post, however, in this instance I must give you credit in relation to one aspect. Rumours (hearsay) must be thoroughly looked at, because, as you have stated, sometimes what is rumoured can turn out to be the truth. The rest I'll leave for others to debate you.

[crazythedragon]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Sorry Thailandchilli Im not sure if the pic you posted claiming to be AC bar will be included in my repost. But the the picture you posted is of Bar Next 2 not AC Bar, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. As far as Im aware AC bar has cameras at the main entrance but not inside or at the back entrance & allegations of a camera at the rear turned out to be a light. It may be the case that cctv footage simply doesn't exist & is not being hidden. As someone who was in AC bar that night but didn't see Dodo there or any altercation I'm not so convinced about the cover up theory. But if anyone can positively ID him being there & having an argument then I will stand corrected

If thats correct about the photo then thank you for pointing that out. If you were in there then I take it you saw Hannah and David?

Could be wrong but guessing he was not there that night.

If he was there he'd have been more well advised to go to the Police or someone to offer his account, not show up 10 months later in an internet forum to give his witness tetimony to a bunch of random dudes arguing about it.

Police did tell me if information or evidence came up that I could go & talk to them. Unfortunately I didn't have anything of relevance, Dodo had already been cleared of being on the Island & like most other people in the bar that night I didn't see anything significant with regards to the investigation. I very rarely post on these forums. This was just to correct an error about a pic that was claimed to be AC bar but was a different bar. Il leave the speculation up to you guys

[stephenterry]

If thats correct about the photo then thank you for pointing that out. If you were in there then I take it you saw Hannah and David?

I didn't know Hannah & David so wouldn't have recognized them from any of the other customers at AC bar that night. I know the staff & on the rare occasions Dodo comes down from Bangkok he always comes to say hello, but I didn't see him around the bar A fight would have been more noticeable than individual customers but I don't remember any problems in there. Im not here to speculate what happened. Regardless of the guilt or innocence of the Burmese suspects I don't believe Dodo or the AC staff were involved in this tragedy. I only posted to highlight the incorrect bar picture. If people are going to speculate & theorise, check & double check the "evidence' you're using

Shame you didn't come forward sooner - it might have put a halt to months of baseless speculation

...but opens up another month's worth of baseless speculation. Here's another one - maybe the alleged altercation happened out at the back of the AC Bar or it was before or after this guy's visit. There you go peeps...

[Rykbanlor]

And there's your spinner! So they only DNA tested for the public's benefit, and then tossed the reports and samples in the bin, Yep, that makes sense. How strange they didn't investigate rumours,...........Even rumours should be investigated - Police often have to deal with rumours, some of which turn out to be true.

Did you also read the Daily Mail article that listed all the things the Police, the lead investigator, didn't know, didn't consider, or didn't bother to chase up?

Kindly break it down and send your explanation for each instance of the lead investigator not knowing or doing or investigating something and how it is excusable.

We will wait.

Don't often agree with what you post, however, in this instance I must give you credit in relation to one aspect. Rumours (hearsay) must be thoroughly looked at, because, as you have stated, sometimes what is rumoured can turn out to be the truth. The rest I'll leave for others to debate you.

Thank you sir, it is nice to meet again under civil circumstances. I'll leave the debate to continue itself today I think though. We're all going round in circles and will remain to do so until next court day I fear.

[crazythedragon]

If thats correct about the photo then thank you for pointing that out. If you were in there then I take it you saw Hannah and David?

I didn't know Hannah & David so wouldn't have recognized them from any of the other customers at AC bar that night. I know the staff & on the rare occasions Dodo comes down from Bangkok he always comes to say hello, but I didn't see him around the bar A fight would have been more noticeable than individual customers but I don't remember any problems in there. Im not here to speculate what happened. Regardless of the guilt or innocence of the Burmese suspects I don't believe Dodo or the AC staff were involved in this tragedy. I only posted to highlight the incorrect bar picture. If people are going to speculate & theorise, check & double check the "evidence' you're using

Shame you didn't come forward sooner - it might have put a halt to months of baseless speculation

I doubt it would've stopped any speculation on here!

[loonodingle]

This is the bulk of the story

Gaping holes in the investigation into the murders of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand have forced a judge to doubt it will ever reach a ‘conclusive outcome’.

The series of police blunders in the investigation against Burmese men Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo has stunned the court on Koh Samui, in the Gulf of Thailand.

The bodies of Miss Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were discovered in September last year, on Koh Tao Sairee Beach.

But failures to investigate vital evidence in the case is putting the trial in jeopardy.

Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed the shocking failures of the investigation

when he appeared in court today.

The staggering blunders include:

Failing to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr MillerFailing to sufficiently explain apparent discrepancies between the clothing of potential suspects, whose images were caught on CCTVFailing to take into account body measurements of potential suspects when examining CCTV footageNot being present during the collection of crucial DNA evidence, despite being the investigating officer in the case. Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.

What’s more, Colonel Chiewpreecha did not know the whereabouts of a green towel that was found on Hannnah’s body, and claimed that it was not relevant as he believed it was placed on Hannah’s body after it had been discovered.

The officer said he did not know whether he would have expected the clothes of the suspects to be covered in blood after the violent attack.

He told the court that he did not know who the garden hoe that police had previously suggested was used to kill the pair belonged to.

He had to be reminded by the court that a worker from a nearby resort had claimed the hoe, and said it was he who had found it on the beach.

The officer did also not know who had reported the discovery of the bodies, because the police had not logged the name of the caller.

He admitted that he also did not know why the son of wealthy Koh Tao business owner, known as the ‘Headman’, who is among the potential suspects, had not been questioned and he did not know why.

Here is an interesting news report with some new discrepancies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

The main gist of the article is that almost nothing was investigated and Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha knows next to nothing about the case.

I can understand why the RTP would want to claim no investigation inside AC Bar. If they said an investigation occurred, they would need to answer questions about it. However, some of the points Cherdpong expressed ignorance about were quite unbelievable.

Is the prosecution trying deliberately to lose? If so, has a deal been struck (maybe even with the Burmese kids themselves) to ensure they are found not guilty if they promise to keep what they know to themselves? Any other possibilities?

Just an FYI, that site is blocked in Thailand. You can probably copy and paste a paragraph within the story and do a google search to find another site which ran the same story.

[Nigeone]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Could those of you who were brave enough to view the pictures of Hannah and particularly David confirm that the injuries to him could have been made by the blunt end of a hoe!! From everything I have seen and taken in his injuries were not consistent with a implement like that. I'm sure somebody will confirm or deny the possibility. Thanks

[kiwikeith]

If he was there he'd have been more well advised to go to the Police or someone to offer his account, not show up 10 months later in an internet forum to give his witness tetimony to a bunch of random dudes arguing about it.

How do you know he did not? Of course, you are correct that he may not have been there.

I would be shocked if the police were not given statements by several people in AC Bar that night. We have no idea what they said. What we do know is that the investigating officer claimed there was no investigation into what happened in AC Bar. Since this was the last place David and Hannah were known to be alive, some of us feel it would be normal to find out what happened there, when they left, and whether they left together. I guess in Thailand these facts are considered irrelevant. Here they prefer to focus on the facts that the Burmese kids rode a motorcycle, played the guitar, and smoked cigarettes.

Didn't all the people in AC bar flee after the murder?

We have no statements from any expat who was inside.

Be sure when you go to the beach to take Burmese smokes, a condom (inside out) a Geetar and a Hoe Hoe Hoe.

[thailandchilli]

Sorry Thailandchilli Im not sure if the pic you posted claiming to be AC bar will be included in my repost. But the the picture you posted is of Bar Next 2 not AC Bar, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. As far as Im aware AC bar has cameras at the main entrance but not inside or at the back entrance & allegations of a camera at the rear turned out to be a light. It may be the case that cctv footage simply doesn't exist & is not being hidden. As someone who was in AC bar that night but didn't see Dodo there or any altercation I'm not so convinced about the cover up theory. But if anyone can positively ID him being there & having an argument then I will stand corrected

If thats correct about the photo then thank you for pointing that out. If you were in there then I take it you saw Hannah and David?

I didn't know Hannah & David so wouldn't have recognized them from any of the other customers at AC bar that night. I know the staff & on the rare occasions Dodo comes down from Bangkok he always comes to say hello, but I didn't see him around the bar A fight would have been more noticeable than individual customers but I don't remember any problems in there. Im not here to speculate what happened. Regardless of the guilt or innocence of the Burmese suspects I don't believe Dodo or the AC staff were involved in this tragedy. I only posted to highlight the incorrect bar picture. If people are going to speculate & theorise, check & double check the "evidence' you're using

Ok so if taking you at face value then I'll accept what your saying. However my theory did not actually involve DoDo as it could be so many other people and also does not involve a serious confrontation of some sort in the AC bar. All it would take was for some snide remarks to be made if anything and then they could have been followed out.

The fact that we know for sure there is cctv at the main entrance then the RTP should be able to identify everyone leaving from there at least giving some clue as to who was there and did not leave the back way to the beach. Everyone of those persons in a double murder investigation should have been interviewed, the last place for them to be seen........but no interviews of all the people in there, ie no investigation

[Si Thea01]

And there's your spinner! So they only DNA tested for the public's benefit, and then tossed the reports and samples in the bin, Yep, that makes sense. How strange they didn't investigate rumours,...........Even rumours should be investigated - Police often have to deal with rumours, some of which turn out to be true.

Did you also read the Daily Mail article that listed all the things the Police, the lead investigator, didn't know, didn't consider, or didn't bother to chase up?

Kindly break it down and send your explanation for each instance of the lead investigator not knowing or doing or investigating something and how it is excusable.

We will wait.

Don't often agree with what you post, however, in this instance I must give you credit in relation to one aspect. Rumours (hearsay) must be thoroughly looked at, because, as you have stated, sometimes what is rumoured can turn out to be the truth. The rest I'll leave for others to debate you.

Thank you sir, it is nice to meet again under civil circumstances. I'll leave the debate to continue itself today I think though. We're all going round in circles and will remain to do so until next court day I fear.

Geez, two now that I agree with you on. I haven't posted anything as I have been busy reading, and doing exactly what you suggested, going around in bloody circles. Enjoy your day

[stephenterry]

This is the bulk of the story

Gaping holes in the investigation into the murders of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand have forced a judge to doubt it will ever reach a ‘conclusive outcome’.

The series of police blunders in the investigation against Burmese men Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo has stunned the court on Koh Samui, in the Gulf of Thailand.

The bodies of Miss Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were discovered in September last year, on Koh Tao Sairee Beach.

But failures to investigate vital evidence in the case is putting the trial in jeopardy.

Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed the shocking failures of the investigation

when he appeared in court today.

The staggering blunders include:

Failing to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr MillerFailing to sufficiently explain apparent discrepancies between the clothing of potential suspects, whose images were caught on CCTVFailing to take into account body measurements of potential suspects when examining CCTV footageNot being present during the collection of crucial DNA evidence, despite being the investigating officer in the case. Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.

What’s more, Colonel Chiewpreecha did not know the whereabouts of a green towel that was found on Hannnah’s body, and claimed that it was not relevant as he believed it was placed on Hannah’s body after it had been discovered.

The officer said he did not know whether he would have expected the clothes of the suspects to be covered in blood after the violent attack.

He told the court that he did not know who the garden hoe that police had previously suggested was used to kill the pair belonged to.

He had to be reminded by the court that a worker from a nearby resort had claimed the hoe, and said it was he who had found it on the beach.

The officer did also not know who had reported the discovery of the bodies, because the police had not logged the name of the caller.

He admitted that he also did not know why the son of wealthy Koh Tao business owner, known as the ‘Headman’, who is among the potential suspects, had not been questioned and he did not know why.

Here is an interesting news report with some new discrepancies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

The main gist of the article is that almost nothing was investigated and Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha knows next to nothing about the case.

I can understand why the RTP would want to claim no investigation inside AC Bar. If they said an investigation occurred, they would need to answer questions about it. However, some of the points Cherdpong expressed ignorance about were quite unbelievable.

Is the prosecution trying deliberately to lose? If so, has a deal been struck (maybe even with the Burmese kids themselves) to ensure they are found not guilty if they promise to keep what they know to themselves? Any other possibilities?

Just an FYI, that site is blocked in Thailand. You can probably copy and paste a paragraph within the story and do a google search to find another site which ran the same story.

I have to hand it to this cop. Despite losing face at every turn, he at least had the balls and honesty to state he didn't know. Which, IMO, goes a long way to indicate he was not covering up for the obvious ineptitude. Should be given a medal.

[Nigeone]

Wow...that sounds like a veiled threat to me. So your obviously a native of KT and if not there 24/7 spend a bit of time there. So come on then. Who did it because it's common knowledge there hence the fact nobody wants to talk about it for fear. Your on a Internet forum your protected!

Edited July 25, 2015 by PoorSucker
removed tangled quotes

[arrowsdawdle]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

It is the structure of the Thai culture and it is called Sakdina, institutionalized inequality where in court, for example, a witness has credibility relative to his status based on wealth and influence. A poor person has very little credibility. It has always been this way. It is never about truth or justice or guilt or innocence...it is all about perceived hierarchy.

[minikev]

I do hope the Defence have the smoking gun they implied they had. So far it looks like the prosecution is getting the upper hand

Which reports have you been reading?

[Heisenbergg]

The "Evidence" on this forum is barely less than what RTP have against B2 at this point. Nothing they've offered as evidence can be used because of the utter failure to follow a standard at the scene and in the course of the investigation. And you refer to David an Hannah as Customers? Not patrons, Farangs or whatever else?

Unless you were on the beach you have no clue what the bar staff did or didn't do... Were you there?

I notice reading all 180+ pages of comments that when the village Headmans son is brought up a little bit too often we get a random defender of him in broken English.

It should be so, so easy for NS to provide all kinds of CCTV from around BKK of where he was, who he was with etc. everything put out to defend him thus far, has come from his lawyer and fathers mouth and nobody else has seen the results, including a leading case police officer. Why in seven hells is this possible?

Corruption

Nepotism

Complacency

Edited typos for clarity

Thanks for fixing the Mangled quotes!

Edited July 25, 2015 by Heisenbergg
removed tangled quotes

[minikev]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Could those of you who were brave enough to view the pictures of Hannah and particularly David confirm that the injuries to him could have been made by the blunt end of a hoe!! From everything I have seen and taken in his injuries were not consistent with a implement like that. I'm sure somebody will confirm or deny the possibility. Thanks

From the pictures they look like small splits of the skin which are opened quite wide and look to be not so very deep. Probably to the bone. On the head area it is obviously thin skin and flesh area. The pathologist claims they are what would be expected from a blow with a blunt end of the alleged murder weapon. There was large bruised area around each split.

I can see why people think they are more likely to have been caused with a different weapon but obviously these things can only be asscertained by specialists. I'm sure other specialists will have studied the pictures and expect the defence will use statements from at least one.

[arrowsdawdle]

If he was there he'd have been more well advised to go to the Police or someone to offer his account, not show up 10 months later in an internet forum to give his witness tetimony to a bunch of random dudes arguing about it.

How do you know he did not? Of course, you are correct that he may not have been there.

I would be shocked if the police were not given statements by several people in AC Bar that night. We have no idea what they said. What we do know is that the investigating officer claimed there was no investigation into what happened in AC Bar. Since this was the last place David and Hannah were known to be alive, some of us feel it would be normal to find out what happened there, when they left, and whether they left together. I guess in Thailand these facts are considered irrelevant. Here they prefer to focus on the facts that the Burmese kids rode a motorcycle, played the guitar, and smoked cigarettes.

Didn't all the people in AC bar flee after the murder?

We have no statements from any expat who was inside.

Be sure when you go to the beach to take Burmese smokes, a condom (inside out) a Geetar and a Hoe Hoe Hoe.

When was the last time other than this case that you ever heard of a rapist using a condom????

[joebrown]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

From what I saw of what was reported of the Police evidence in court, it was a single blow to the back of David's head. Both statements can't be correct, can they. However, they could both be wrong, couldn't they?

[GOLDBUGGY]

I always shake my head when I read something like "These Poor Boys!" "Take a look at them!" "They couldn't hurt a flea"!

Now let me point out a "Fact" to you all.

Myanmar, and where these so called "Innocent Boys" come from, has the Highest Murder Rate in all of Asia. All of Asia! The Myanmar Murder Rate is triple what it is in Thailand. Meaning by population for every 1 Murder in Thailand, there are 3 Murders in Myanmar. Thailand's Murder Rate is only slightly higher than the USA. But no small wonder they look at Myanmar Workers first when their is a murder committed nearby.

So could they commit murder? You bet your bottom dollar they could! And there own Government Statistics proves that and they can back that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

These deaths are predominantly because of internal civil wars ... just as the high numbers in Thailand are due to the unrest in the south.

It is not a war just because you are wearing a uniform and then rape and murder innocent civilians. It is a War Crime!

[ianf]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

[Chetzee]

Edit: By the way, it was also under Panya that Mon was cleared.

JTJ. Imagine a corporation's top execs (Bkk manipulators, including PM and top cop). The top manager for the initial investigative team (Panya) was not doing his job according to the parameters set out by the top execs. He was following evidence to where it led (to Mon and Nomsod) instead of quickly indicting impoverished powerless migrants. He was told to do it quickly. He started doing it (reluctantly eliminating Mon as a prime suspect), but it was not quick enough for top execs. So the chief cop in Bkk yanked Panya off, and put himself in charge. All the rest is the sad history of cover-up and shielding the Headman's people.

Also; the was mega pressure from TAT and tourist industry to indict someone. For obvious reasons, the H's people were untouchable. Big money can do a lot of magical things in Thailand. TAT thought (mistakenly) that tourists were clamoring for indictments in order to feel safe enough to return to the island to spend lots of money. Au contraire, tourists want rapists and murderers taken out of the public domain. If it takes some time to get it right, that's ok. Thai officials don't understand that.

The thing about prior promotion plans is bunk. Promotions go on all the time among uniformed Thai officials. If a man is leading a team on an important crime investigation, there's only one reason he's going to get yanked off the job - if his higher ups don't like how he's doing his job. Any other explanation is pissing in the wind.

JTJ Edit: By the way, it was also under Panya that Mon was cleared.

so is that the Mon that was cleared when the RTP caught up with him in BBK ?

Quite extrodinary John that you can't remember two rather short but none the less important names in the case , and yet you , and seemingly only you can remember an obsure tv news or newspaper report that Panya was off to pastures new well before 15th sept .

Are you sure you have not invented that news report becasue it fits you MO ?

[ianf]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

[apetley]

The DNA evidence is totally irrelevant now. I'm sure there is no chain of evidence procedure in place to maintain its integrity. It could have been corrupted, doctored to give the result they want, or replaced with the local dog's! A pity, because if used correctly maybe there could have been a fair verdict in this case, with the guilty parties brought to justice.

The DNA evidence is far from irrelevant. Yesterday in court it was stated that the DNA from the 2 Burmese matched the semen found inside Hanna.

If a new sample of DNA from the Burmese matches the semen DNA then this would be pretty damning evidence imo.

If the samples do not match then they are off Scot free I'd guess.

[loonodingle]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Could those of you who were brave enough to view the pictures of Hannah and particularly David confirm that the injuries to him could have been made by the blunt end of a hoe!! From everything I have seen and taken in his injuries were not consistent with a implement like that. I'm sure somebody will confirm or deny the possibility. Thanks

Personally I would say several different instruments had been used. not just a hoe. As well as bite mark and bruising from finger pressure that would have been due to gripping her. Some tissue loss around her mouth area and teeth broken. A possible entry wound on her right cheek and what appear to be shrapnel wounds on her upper chest. There was fine shards of bone splattered around the rock area which could have been caused by the effect of a bullet exiting and carrying tissue and bone with it. These are just my personal opinions and not forensically valid. The top part of her head was almost severed from the eye socker area up and this is what would have been caused by the hoe. Davids injuries are consistent with a stabbing and blunt force. He drowned and didnt die from his injuries. He could have well been over whelmed by force and held under water. This would have needed many hands I would imagine. Not sure how he was stripped and dont think he took a dip as he still has a sock on in one one of the pictures shown with mon in it. You canjust see davids legs.

[Nigeone]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

From what I saw of what was reported of the Police evidence in court, it was a single blow to the back of David's head. Both statements can't be correct, can they. However, they could both be wrong, couldn't they?

It definatly wasn't a single blow as someone previously on this thread had a mock up showing the numerous injuries on the various parts of his body. It sure wasn't a single blow. In fact having used a hoe on very many occasions very similar to the one shown in the scene of crime pictures I personally have absolutely no idea how the blunt end of said hoe could possibly cause injuries as indicated. I'm looking forward to hearing the leadingThai pathologist but more so the UK guy comment on both victims injuries as there seems to be doubts about both.

[loonodingle]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

From what I saw of what was reported of the Police evidence in court, it was a single blow to the back of David's head. Both statements can't be correct, can they. However, they could both be wrong, couldn't they?

It definatly wasn't a single blow as someone previously on this thread had a mock up showing the numerous injuries on the various parts of his body. It sure wasn't a single blow. In fact having used a hoe on very many occasions very similar to the one shown in the scene of crime pictures I personally have absolutely no idea how the blunt end of said hoe could possibly cause injuries as indicated. I'm looking forward to hearing the leadingThai pathologist but more so the UK guy comment on both victims injuries as there seems to be doubts about both.

I think we all need to wait for the disclosures from the UK Forensic autopsy.

I suspect this will be the game changer.

[smedly]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

I don't know could probably be interpreted more accurately as "no comment" or "I'm not allowed to tell you"

It astounding how this man actually made it into court as a witness - where is Ko Samui "I don't know" - where are you now - "I don't know"

If I had been the defence attorney questioning him I would have stopped and asked the Judge to excuse him and request a witness that can actually answer a question relating to the investigation