Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[stickylies]

Some of you guys seems to not have a life outide of this thread.

obsession

əbˈsɛʃ(ə)n/

noun

noun: obsession

the state of being obsessed with someone or something.

"she cared for him with a devotion bordering on obsession"

an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person's mind.

plural noun: obsessions

"he was in the grip of an obsession he was powerless to resist"

Edited July 25, 2015 by stickylies

[apetley]

The DNA evidence is totally irrelevant now. I'm sure there is no chain of evidence procedure in place to maintain its integrity. It could have been corrupted, doctored to give the result they want, or replaced with the local dog's! A pity, because if used correctly maybe there could have been a fair verdict in this case, with the guilty parties brought to justice.

The DNA evidence is far from irrelevant. Yesterday in court it was stated that the DNA from the 2 Burmese matched the semen found inside Hanna.

If a new sample of DNA from the Burmese matches the semen DNA then this would be pretty damning evidence imo.

If the samples do not match then they are off Scot free I'd guess.

I have posted questions previously about whether the DNA of the accused was obtained from semen, inside or outside Hannah. Despite over 180 pages I still have had no confirmation that was the case. Also I still haven't heard about any DNA found under her fingernails. I think that there has been no mention of this to be weird to say the least. I also, after some research, suggested that mixed semen was more complicated to analyse, but despite this the analysis was done in record time. If the RTP claim ISO 9001 certification then they need to be stripped of it as a matter of urgency and the organisation that awarded that certification should be banned from further awards.

The Khaosod report merely says from Hanna's body.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&typecate=06&section=

I can't comment on the testing lab, but as someone who has worked for UK Police at a Scene of Crime Office involved in the collection, 'bagging and tagging', storage, transport and database entry of DNA samples the story told at this trial by the Thai Police is woeful and would never have made it to court in the UK.

Edited July 25, 2015 by apetley

[boomerangutang]

This Extortion started in Myanmar, and not in Thailand, when the 2 accused paid good money to someone to be smuggled here and become Illegal Aliens in Thailand in the first place. You can scream and shout at the top of your lungs about Workers Rights,but the reality of it all is they don't have a right to be here in the first place, and thus are not entitled to have Workers Rights. The same as in your country.

First you denigrate their country as being murderous (it's not, and the # of tourists killed in Thailand compared to Burma is about 1,000 to 1). Then you try to kick 'em while they're down. At the first arraignment in December, it was established they were legally in Thailand. However, accusations of them being illegal were spouted by RTP (and now GOLDBUGGY) when the B2 first got to the 'safe house' and the torture began - as a way to further spook them to admitting to a crime they didn't do.

[berybert]

I am sensing a change in the RTP's people on TV. They no longer seem to be trying to convince us of the Burmese guilt, more of a 'someone else could have done it but it wasn't Nomsod'.

One wonders if the prosecution has dug a hole so deep they realize there is no way out of it. So now its damage limitation.

Edited July 25, 2015 by berybert

[thailandchilli]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

This would appear to be a face-saving strategy since the headman's brother is now arrested and the son is being pursued. Having Pornthip discover the discrepancies and bring them to light is far better than foreigners doing it.

Could be, at the end of the day its not the prosecutions decision to have her stand witness, its was asked for by the defense, we already know the defense has very significant new evidence to present to the court at the right time, perhaps it will coincide with this. Currently I trust the defense teams decision to ask her to stand

[thailandchilli]

I am sensing a change in the RTP's people on TV. They no longer seem to be trying to convince us of the Burmese guilt, more of a 'someone else could have done it but it wasn't Nomsod'.

One wonders if the prosecution has dug a hole so deep they realize there is no way out of it. So now its damage limitation.

JTJ is still looking for a non existent link to prove Panya announcement of promotion was made before the 15th Sept

[sambum]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

She is obviously very well qualified, and has been known in the past to step on a few toes when she has felt it to be necessary, but I am inclined to agree with your closing statement. As I have said before on this thread, I consider that independent testing of the DNA should be exactly that. It should be done in another country that has no axe to grind with Thailand, either for political favour, or business deals, and independent of the RTP and the Thai Government in all its shapes and forms. As it stands now, as you quite rightly imply, only one question needs to be asked of Dr Pornthip - "Do you want to keep your job?"

Edited July 25, 2015 by sambum

[apetley]

I am almost certain that the initial DNA tests were not performed in Thailand I think Singapore The story seems to change as it goes along

Reports since last Sept have said testing has been carried out by the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok.

[Nigeone]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

This would appear to be a face-saving strategy since the headman's brother is now arrested and the son is being pursued. Having Pornthip discover the discrepancies and bring them to light is far better than foreigners doing it.

Have I missed something here?? Or is this a mix up of quotes etc from back last year?? Edited July 25, 2015 by Nigeone

[Fat Haggis]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Sorry Thailandchilli Im not sure if the pic you posted claiming to be AC bar will be included in my repost. But the the picture you posted is of Bar Next 2 not AC Bar, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. As far as Im aware AC bar has cameras at the main entrance but not inside or at the back entrance & allegations of a camera at the rear turned out to be a light. It may be the case that cctv footage simply doesn't exist & is not being hidden. As someone who was in AC bar that night but didn't see Dodo there or any altercation I'm not so convinced about the cover up theory. But if anyone can positively ID him being there & having an argument then I will stand corrected

Interesting. You're the first person to pipe up and say they were at the AC bar that night. Not even Mon has admitted that. What times were you there, and do you recall seeing anything unusual? Was Sean there? If you saw Hannah and/or David in or around there, did you notice anything unusual about them? Were they a romantic couple together or not? I'm curious. And thanks for the heads up about CCTV cameras. I had heard earlier that Mon was buddies with a local guy who set up CCTV cameras in places on the island, so it was assumed there were more than one in such a popular bar.

You day you didn't see Nomsod in the bar, but did you know Nomsod (enough to recognize him) before/during that night? Did you see him anywhere on the island during that weekend? What about Mon - any odd actions by him? ....or anyone else - that night or next morning?

Also, when did you first hear of the crime, and what was your and others' thoughts at the time about who did it? Any other insights would be appreciated.

More to the point, was he in the bar at the exact same time Hannah and David were there, and if he's a local expat, was he asked to provide a DNA sample, was he drinking inside the bar, or out the back ? towards the beach?

He's obviously someone who knows what Nomsod looks like, so ergo, he'd also know if any of his other family members were there ?

I was on Koh Tao the month before the murders, and I have a photo from my times there and I had to do a double take, as in one of the photos, there was a girl behind my wife, who was very similar in looks to Hannah, obviously had it been around the same time, I'd have been very alarmed, as she's also sitting opposite a guy who had the same build as David.

[ffaarraanngg]

I am sensing a change in the RTP's people on TV. They no longer seem to be trying to convince us of the Burmese guilt, more of a 'someone else could have done it but it wasn't Nomsod'.

One wonders if the prosecution has dug a hole so deep they realize there is no way out of it. So now its damage limitation.

JTJ is still looking for a non existent link to prove Panya announcement of promotion was made before the 15th Sept

And when he cant find it he will not have a valid reason for the change.

He is a pathetic excuse for a human, his family would be ashamed of him if they knew what he does in his spare time.

[bunglebag]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

GB, surely you don't take what you are typing seriously? You are saying the Chief investigator on this case should not know:

1: Who collected the DNA samples

2: Who called in the body discovery

3: Whether he expected the attackers clothes to be bloodstained

4: Who the owner of the hoe - the murder weapon - who it belonged to.

5: The officer who interviewed headman's son

6: Whether the headman's son was even interviewed properly

Furthermore, you think it's excusable that this same chief investigator:

1: Did not bother to investigate an altercation at the AC bar, allegedly involving the headmans son and possibly Hannah

2: Suspects the victims last know whereabouts was AC bar but did not investigate there either, and has not pursued or shown footage of CCTV with them leaving

3: Didn't bother to check CCTV footage of the pier as they "didn't think" a suspect would leave that way

4: Didn't bother to investigate reports of a small boat leaving the island in the early morning

5: Doesn't know where the DNA samples collected from the headmans son are, nor does he know who has them - essentilay lost then - and only Police testimony that they were not a match

But Goldbuggy, you think its ok for the lead investigator to be this ignorant. You said it's not his job to know these things, its his job to investigate. Well guess what, he neither knew, nor investigated.

Why, oh Why are you defending them? Can't you see the gross incompetence and lies?

Read this article, and try spinning it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

Oh, right, I know - it is a misunderstanding yes? Or lost in translation yes? Or is this the level of Policing you find acceptable?

Wouldn't waste your time. GB makes more (suitable) assumptions than anyone when he presents his alternative scenarios.

I like the way he plucks a time of death out of the air, just because a random poster mentioned it.

I'm not aware of the official time of death window but personally I think she was staged much closer to high tide time (2.19am) than 4.30am, based on tidemarks and and Hannah's feet have sunk into the sand (one more tan the other) in a way that only happens when water is moving around them.

Also, sunrise might have been 6.10am but you do know it starts to get light before the sun comes up right? I doubt our beach cleaners would have been stumbling around in pitch black at 5.40am

if there was a speedboat it could have left from beach or pier. Pier is near beach. You never know what might be on the cctv, hence the point of looking at it.

[Nigeone]

I am almost certain that the initial DNA tests were not performed in Thailand I think Singapore The story seems to change as it goes along

Reports since last Sept have said testing has been carried out by the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok.

There was I seem to remember back in Sept/October a story that samples were going to Singapore as apparently the type of test required wasn't available in Thailand but I think that was later discounted. However the confusion of the DNA from day one seems to be a big stumbling block and it seems like it's going to be more to the fore in the next round . There's all sorts of questions need answered regarding testing or lack of testing along with the stage managed episode around the headmans sons DNA. Did the police guy yesterday not say he hadn't seen those tests?

[canarysun]

This whole thing is an absolute " load of cojones " ( kind respect where due ladies... ) Lets hope they release these poor Burmese kids soon and pay them millions in compensation for them and there families for the hell they have all been put through.

F.J x

[loonodingle]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

She is obviously very well qualified, and has been known in the past to step on a few toes when she has felt it to be necessary, but I am inclined to agree with your closing statement. As I have said before on this thread, I consider that independent testing of the DNA should be exactly that. It should be done in another country that has no axe to grind with Thailand, either for political favour, or business deals, and independent of the RTP and the Thai Government in all its shapes and forms. As it stands now, as you quite rightly imply, only one question needs to be asked of Dr Pornthip - "Do you want to keep your job?"

She has given evidence before in cases against the prosecution regarding murder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSBUtz0gwAY

[NCC1701A]

Breaking news. The judge in the case has requested 5 more court days so that the 191 (so far) pages of 4762 comments from Thai Visa be read aloud into the court record.

[joebrown]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

She is obviously very well qualified, and has been known in the past to step on a few toes when she has felt it to be necessary, but I am inclined to agree with your closing statement. As I have said before on this thread, I consider that independent testing of the DNA should be exactly that. It should be done in another country that has no axe to grind with Thailand, either for political favour, or business deals, and independent of the RTP and the Thai Government in all its shapes and forms. As it stands now, as you quite rightly imply, only one question needs to be asked of Dr Pornthip - "Do you want to keep your job?"

I'm pleased K Pornthip is being called as a defence witness. Wasn't it she who publicly criticised the lack of professionalism by the Thai police forensics at the alleged crime scene. AFAIK she has never retracted the statement made. She might prove useful in this respect, but she may also be handed the 'hot potato' significent evidence the defence are supposed to have and be asked some very difficult questions.

[boomerangutang]

I am sensing a change in the RTP's people on TV. They no longer seem to be trying to convince us of the Burmese guilt, more of a 'someone else could have done it but it wasn't Nomsod'. One wonders if the prosecution has dug a hole so deep they realize there is no way out of it. So now its damage limitation.

You're right about shielding Nomsod. That's their prime intention. It's right along with the game plan of the RTP, prosecution, the PM and all the Headman's people. Losing face and showing how inept the investigation is a drag (for them), but the worst thing of all, for all of them, is the prospect of NS and Mon being put under real scrutiny. That's why, even if/when the court allows re-examination of evidence, it will still keep a strict lid on looking at anything which could implicate precious NS or his uncle.

I venture if/when Ms Pontip is brought in to the mix, there will be a dust-up when she's told what's off limits to examine. Lot's more screw-ups by RTP yet to come. Stay tuned.

This whole thing is an absolute " load of cojones " ( kind respect where due ladies... ) Lets hope they release these poor Burmese kids soon and pay them millions in compensation for them and there families for the hell they have all been put through.

F.J x

amen! bro.

I'm offering jobs to the B2 when they get out. I have rural property in northern Thailand, and they'd also have a free place to stay. They'll need some soul mending after being falsely imprisoned for so long. There are also hill tribers and Burmese folks around, so they wouldn't feel cut off.

[loonodingle]

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html

CHIANG MAI, Thailand — One of Thailand’s most well-known forensic pathologists, Dr. Porntip Rojanasunan, has criticized the Thai police investigation that led to the arrest of two Burmese migrants for the murder of two British tourists on Koh Tao last month.

Porntip, who is director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province, was weak and the results not fully trustworthy as police did not involve forensic specialists at the crime scene.

She added that since the police force handled the investigation on their own, the Thai public doubted the outcome of the case.

[Briggsy]

I'm pleased K Pornthip is being called as a defence witness. Wasn't it she who publicly criticised the lack of professionalism by the Thai police forensics at the alleged crime scene. AFAIK she has never retracted the statement made. She might prove useful in this respect, but she may also be handed the 'hot potato' significent evidence the defence are supposed to have and be asked some very difficult questions.

Beware what you wish for.

Yes, she has a track record of relentlessly criticising both the police and appallingly shoddy forensic work by the police.

But she is part of a military / establishment patronage nexus that affords her the status and protection to criticise senior police. The military is now in charge and has very publicly approved of the police work in this case right up to Prayut Chan-ocha.

It is worth noting other factions in the military are not so happy with Prayuth and the Eastern Tigers military faction and this may have influenced Dr Pornthip to agree to be a witness for the defence.

I don't believe a quest for the truth and improved scientific rigour in police work are the only drivers for this turn of events.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Briggsy

[boomerangutang]

Breaking news. The judge in the case has requested 5 more court days so that the 191 (so far) pages of 4762 comments from Thai Visa be read aloud into the court record.

That's somewhat funny. Actually, this is just the latest of about a dozen threads on this topic - so there are several tens of thousands of posts, just on T.Visa. I've had several posts to my mailbox from people who are reading, but not posting. You get one guess re; which team they're rooting for.

[dbx]

As a retired Police Lieutenant, from the USA I will tell you that one of the many things done at a crime scene is to canvass, and gather all video both public and private.

What happened here, isn't a simple case of incompetence. It is collaboration!

My Thai wife says that a son of the Village head was behind it, I don't know and really don't care.

I just know that I try my best to never travel to far from a consulate because although most have a hard time admitting it...

Thailand is indeed a 3rd world country!

[boomerangutang]

Could be, at the end of the day its not the prosecutions decision to have her stand witness, its was asked for by the defense, we already know the defense has very significant new evidence to present to the court at the right time, perhaps it will coincide with this. Currently I trust the defense teams decision to ask her to stand

I hope there's not a mistrial declared before the defense have their turn to present what they have. It wouldn't surprise me if charges are dropped just before Sept. 1st, when the defense get their turn at bat. By that time, the prosecution and RTP will already have made such a mess of things, that the court probably won't want to see officialdom suffer any more. A 'coup de grace' if you will, to put them out of their self-orchestrated misery.

I'd like to see what the defense has, and care not a whit about alleviating the gross loss of face the RTP and prosecution are bringing upon themselves - particularly if it might lead to RTP being more professional (and less inclined to finger scapegoats) in the future. And I'm not sorry if they make less money by being honest.

[bunglebag]

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

Here it is a link to something that has been shared numerous times on this thread for those who keep wanted to pretend things and/or too ignorant to look up facts themselves and prefer to make things up. Other links shared on these boards actually show the date of the promotion being 10/1 along with numerous other transfers around the country.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/21/national/Police-promotions-30136311.html

Published on August 21, 2010[/size]

Police promotions

"Deputy Metropolitan Police commissioner MajGeneral Amnuay Niammano and Central Investigation Bureau deputy commissioner MajGeneral Panya Mamen are set to be promoted to the commissioners of provincial police regions," the same source added.

So please stop the nonsense of how he was taken off the case and was doing such a great job. When he left, the case was receiving huge attention for what people were calling coverups and botched. He cleared all the Headsman's family as well as Sean and was the one who confirmed publicly the one kid was in Bangkok and no longer a suspect. He also announced the day after his transfer arrests would be happening in days and they were.

I must advise those who support JTJ ........ DO NOT LOOK AT THE DATE PUBLISHED ON THIS ARTICAL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe now you should give up JTJ.

Heres one from 1976

May bad, I only looked at the month - I pulled the wrong article. Let me try to find the right one which has already been published numerous times on these threads.

JTJ, I notice you have not posted since the above (as far as I can see).

I am waiting with bated breath for this because you have been banging on about it for ages. Very strange if nothing forthcoming

[balo]

I am sensing a change in the RTP's people on TV. They no longer seem to be trying to convince us of the Burmese guilt, more of a 'someone else could have done it but it wasn't Nomsod'.

One wonders if the prosecution has dug a hole so deep they realize there is no way out of it. So now its damage limitation.

Berybert , I dont know who you refering to but to call some of us for RTPs people is ridicolous. We want justice just as much as you do .

I know you have been following this case for a long time , just like me. You should know that I'm from the beginning have said theres a 50/50 chance that B2 are guilty.

I dont want to take side in this case but prefer to look at the facts as they appear. Since there are not a lot of facts and mostly gossip and rumors I prefer to not be 100% certain about anything. So many of you are so 100% certain that this whole mess is a coverup that its difficult for you to look at this from other angles.

We ll know about the integrety of RTP and corruption in this kingdom , but that doesnt mean that some of the investigation that has been done is just a big coverup.

[ffaarraanngg]

Could be, at the end of the day its not the prosecutions decision to have her stand witness, its was asked for by the defense, we already know the defense has very significant new evidence to present to the court at the right time, perhaps it will coincide with this. Currently I trust the defense teams decision to ask her to stand

I hope there's not a mistrial declared before the defense have their turn to present what they have. It wouldn't surprise me if charges are dropped just before Sept. 1st, when the defense get their turn at bat. By that time, the prosecution and RTP will already have made such a mess of things, that the court probably won't want to see officialdom suffer any more. A 'coup de grace' if you will, to put them out of their self-orchestrated misery.

I'd like to see what the defense has, and care not a whit about alleviating the gross loss of face the RTP and prosecution are bringing upon themselves - particularly if it might lead to RTP being more professional (and less inclined to finger scapegoats) in the future. And I'm not sorry if they make less money by being honest.

But they need to have someone found guilty of this crime, so it is very possible these 2 were to be found guilty no matter what.

If they're found not guilty it means finding the actual culprits which i just can't see happening.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Reading through past post I can't but wonder what all this is about and some Victory Parade. I mean before the discovery that the DNA can be retested. So maybe better we start there to get that out of the way.

I have claimed from the start that I hoped that the courts would allow this DNA to be retested. I still feel the same today. I like everyone else was confused with reports saying it was lost, or used up, or eaten by a snake. But now that it can be retested I think that is fine. All I added to this was to be careful for what you ask for as you might get it.

If these test do come back negative, like the first ones, then the gig is up. It is game over. There is no turning back after this point, The accused chances of a successful victory at trial, and even appeal, I would think would be very little. So I will wait and see and see if these tests actually take place. If they are guilty it would be easier to try and poke holes in the Prosecutions DNA Evidence then to have you own which agrees with his.

Someone pointed out that if the defense discovered through DNA that they did do it, they wouldn't have to show this in court. Perhaps at the very beginning if they conducted there own DNA Independent Test he may be right. I am not sure. But since the Defense had to appeal to the court to allow this, and this was granted, then I would think the court would want to see the results regardless. But again I am not sure.

That's a rational and relevant post and your right it would be good to,get the results of DNA.

Unfortunately whatever side of the fence you sit on its plainly obvious that the DNA testing cannot be verified as being collected ,stored and examined properly as right from the start the crime scene was compromised. From not keeping it sterile to incorrect taking of samples. We don't know about all the other procedures including storage,correct testing and catalogue of the samples and a paper trail is said samples. This is not sitting on either fence just a fact and if the only evidence is DNA I don't think that's anyway enough for a correct judgement. As I've said DNA will not prove murder in this case just at worst an accessory or being there. The fact it's compromised would mean it wouldn't even be admissible in a civilised worlds court system.

I'm not having a go just pointing out this would still leave as many questions as answers

"Compromised" means to accept standards lower than is desirable, "Compromised" does not mean "Destroyed".

For example if you were investigating the Crime Scene you would expect to find the footprints in the sand of the 2 Victims, plus any others who could belong to the murders. But now that 6 others entered the Crime Scene, the Crime Scene has been compromised.

This doesn't mean these footprints of the victims and possible murders aren't there anymore. It just now means that you have to sift through everyone's footprints that were in there, and clear them all as suspects, which is not desired. Unless of course a herd of cattle went through and destroyed all the footprints, but judging from photos of the police measuring the footprints, I don't think this was the case.

Now if you think the sperm samples taken from Hannah at the Forensic Lab was compromised and planted, then I have no more to say to you on this subject as then we disagree,

[GOLDBUGGY]

Reading through past post I can't but wonder what all this is about and some Victory Parade. I mean before the discovery that the DNA can be retested. So maybe better we start there to get that out of the way.

I have claimed from the start that I hoped that the courts would allow this DNA to be retested. I still feel the same today. I like everyone else was confused with reports saying it was lost, or used up, or eaten by a snake. But now that it can be retested I think that is fine. All I added to this was to be careful for what you ask for as you might get it.

If these test do come back negative, like the first ones, then the gig is up. It is game over. There is no turning back after this point, The accused chances of a successful victory at trial, and even appeal, I would think would be very little. So I will wait and see and see if these tests actually take place. If they are guilty it would be easier to try and poke holes in the Prosecutions DNA Evidence then to have you own which agrees with his.

Someone pointed out that if the defense discovered through DNA that they did do it, they wouldn't have to show this in court. Perhaps at the very beginning if they conducted there own DNA Independent Test he may be right. I am not sure. But since the Defense had to appeal to the court to allow this, and this was granted, then I would think the court would want to see the results regardless. But again I am not sure.

That's a rational and relevant post and your right it would be good to,get the results of DNA.

Unfortunately whatever side of the fence you sit on its plainly obvious that the DNA testing cannot be verified as being collected ,stored and examined properly as right from the start the crime scene was compromised. From not keeping it sterile to incorrect taking of samples. We don't know about all the other procedures including storage,correct testing and catalogue of the samples and a paper trail is said samples. This is not sitting on either fence just a fact and if the only evidence is DNA I don't think that's anyway enough for a correct judgement. As I've said DNA will not prove murder in this case just at worst an accessory or being there. The fact it's compromised would mean it wouldn't even be admissible in a civilised worlds court system.

I'm not having a go just pointing out this would still leave as many questions as answers

Oh,almost forgot.

I believe the Lead Forensic Officer made it clear that they duplicate DNA and store DNA in cases like this for up to 2 years. I see no reason to suspect they did not meet the criteria and chain of command and control to do this. But until it is checked and retested, we are just making an assumption right now, Which I personally would rather not do but rather wait and see.

[mercman24]

POST 4676, Why are you all continuing to post after this, READ THIS POSTING OK, THIS IS FROM TODAY , saturday 25 th JULY. keyboard warriors .

[Nigeone]

Reading through past post I can't but wonder what all this is about and some Victory Parade. I mean before the discovery that the DNA can be retested. So maybe better we start there to get that out of the way.

I have claimed from the start that I hoped that the courts would allow this DNA to be retested. I still feel the same today. I like everyone else was confused with reports saying it was lost, or used up, or eaten by a snake. But now that it can be retested I think that is fine. All I added to this was to be careful for what you ask for as you might get it.

If these test do come back negative, like the first ones, then the gig is up. It is game over. There is no turning back after this point, The accused chances of a successful victory at trial, and even appeal, I would think would be very little. So I will wait and see and see if these tests actually take place. If they are guilty it would be easier to try and poke holes in the Prosecutions DNA Evidence then to have you own which agrees with his.

Someone pointed out that if the defense discovered through DNA that they did do it, they wouldn't have to show this in court. Perhaps at the very beginning if they conducted there own DNA Independent Test he may be right. I am not sure. But since the Defense had to appeal to the court to allow this, and this was granted, then I would think the court would want to see the results regardless. But again I am not sure.

That's a rational and relevant post and your right it would be good to,get the results of DNA.

Unfortunately whatever side of the fence you sit on its plainly obvious that the DNA testing cannot be verified as being collected ,stored and examined properly as right from the start the crime scene was compromised. From not keeping it sterile to incorrect taking of samples. We don't know about all the other procedures including storage,correct testing and catalogue of the samples and a paper trail is said samples. This is not sitting on either fence just a fact and if the only evidence is DNA I don't think that's anyway enough for a correct judgement. As I've said DNA will not prove murder in this case just at worst an accessory or being there. The fact it's compromised would mean it wouldn't even be admissible in a civilised worlds court system.

I'm not having a go just pointing out this would still leave as many questions as answers

"Compromised" means to accept standards lower than is desirable, "Compromised" does not mean "Destroyed".

For example if you were investigating the Crime Scene you would expect to find the footprints in the sand of the 2 Victims, plus any others who could belong to the murders. But now that 6 others entered the Crime Scene, the Crime Scene has been compromised.

This doesn't mean these footprints of the victims and possible murders aren't there anymore. It just now means that you have to sift through everyone's footprints that were in there, and clear them all as suspects, which is not desired. Unless of course a herd of cattle went through and destroyed all the footprints, but judging from photos of the police measuring the footprints, I don't think this was the case.

Now if you think the sperm samples taken from Hannah at the Forensic Lab was compromised and planted, then I have no more to say to you on this subject as then we disagree,

Your not for real are you?? Compromised means what it says and in your analogy it's clear that if many people are allowed unchecked and not in a sterile environment some of those said footprints could have been compromised or even destroyed. You do know what happens to sand when it's walked don't you?? What about all the pics downloaded onto Facebook before the it came out that a murders had been carried out. Then there's the pictures of clothes in one place then scattered all around and a police guy stating he moved the body. How many of the people walking on that beach would have been wearing flip flop type shoes! Not easy to differentiate on sand wouldn't you agree. There was umpteen people walking over that crime scene including I will say again a possible suspect. How can that possible suspect be elimated from the case. Well we know the answer to that don't we! You haven't thought your reply out have you!. And are you telling me it's not possible to plant samples? and again we have only the RTP word up to now that they have any samples and they haven't been to clever at being forthcoming with anything up to now. The perfect case!!

Yes we do disagree and quite honestly this argument of yours is a joke. And as you've obviously not read previous post of mine and understood DNA taken from Hannah does not in any shape or form confirm that the DNA belonged to a murderer. Just that it belonged to someone there. Is that so hard to understand!!

Edited July 25, 2015 by Nigeone