Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Nigeone]

going to try and make this my last comment today on this thread

My mind keeps going back to the "running man" cctv and how it is definitely not any of the accused and I am 100% sure of that - body and clothing do not match and no wristbands.

It is also an extreme likeness for Nomsod in so many ways

I'll bet the transferred cop is being cursed every day for releasing that footage to the public otherwise I honestly don't believe we'd ever have seen it

When was he last seen publicly?

You know doesn't that sum up exactly what this country is up against. What you suggest in a civilised society would be deemed far fetched but is there anyone on this forum who doesn't wonder if he has actually met a untimely end

We don't know but sadly we also know it's a possibility too.

[fayou]

Sean McAnna completely refusing to comment is ridiculous. Or Gianni DiLupo whatever that nonce is calling himself these days.

How does he know that? I never read in the news about these french girls. However, if this is true... the girls may hear languages, names or strange voice etc.? Are they in court as witnesses? Somebody knows more about this?

Sean McAnna is >Gianni DeLupo

recently chaged to

>Sean DiLupo (Facebook)

----Seans chat with unknown person (part of it )----

[kuripot]

Based upon the Daily Mail report;

Failing to confirm the mobile phone and sim card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller

then who did it belong to ?

I seem to remember reading of a Scottish person in a 7/11 borrowing a phone shortly before departing the island.

[BoristheBlade]

Virtually everybody has a mobile phone, surely looking at phone activity my hold some clues.

I bet the perpetrators made a call to at least one person after the murder...

How many boat owners got a call in the early hours? and then their phone signal was registered within two or three hours on the mainland or Samui?

surely there must be software/systems available to detect from the phone companies records any phone that was on the island at the time Hannah and David was seen alive and appeared on the mainland or Samui before the first ferries.

Basil,

No one in power wants to look M8. Not at the CCTV not at anything that wouldn't support their theory.

Sit back and wait for the next round. You will see some revelations coming that will shake the RTP to the core

I wish we could hear the revelations but I honestly don't think it will happen. The defence is Thai and they have already had reported confrontation with the RTP and prosecutors outside the court room. They know if they go to far, they are putting themselves at serious risk. And by serious I mean the ultimate sacrifice!

Face is number one in Thailand, and when it comes to the Prime Minister and the Chief of Police face simply won't be allowed to be lost. Both these "gentlemen" have stated their reputations on the RTP case, do you think it will be publicly shown to have been incorrect? NOT A CHANCE.

Tragic, disgusting but true, after all this is Thailand!

[boomerangutang]

Oh and one more thing, it is a criminal offence for an investigating officer to withhold alter or manipulate evidence that would change or influence the outcome of a trial - of course I am stating the obvious, most people should be aware of this already.

This is Thailand. Everything is subjective. Officialdom is incapable of disciplining itself. The worst that can happen is 'transferred to an inactive post'. Translated, that means: moved to another province, with pay intact (or maybe a raise), ....and told to keep quiet and be a good boy.

going to try and make this my last comment today on this thread

My mind keeps going back to the "running man" cctv and how it is definitely not any of the accused and I am 100% sure of that - body and clothing do not match and no wristbands.

It is also an extreme likeness for Nomsod in so many ways

I'll bet the transferred cop is being cursed every day for releasing that footage to the public otherwise I honestly don't believe we'd ever have seen it

I agree totally. Who owns the CCTV which released that footage? It certainly wasn't owned by anyone connected to In Touch, AC or AC2. I think it was a camera put up by the convenience store, because it's facing the entry to the store. Mr. Fix-it Mon plugged a lot of leaks, but I bet he's sorely pissed off that he didn't catch that one.

[BoristheBlade]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

[thailandchilli]

Sean McAnna completely refusing to comment is ridiculous. Or Gianni DiLupo whatever that nonce is calling himself these days.

How does he know that? I never read in the news about these french girls. However, if this is true... the girls may hear languages, names or strange voice etc.? Are they in court as witnesses? Somebody knows more about this?

Sean McAnna is >Gianni DeLupo

recently chaged to

>Sean DiLupo (Facebook)

----Seans chat with unknown person (part of it )----

1.JPG 2.JPG

If true about the girls then this is more very significant evidence that should have been produced by the prosecution. At the very least this would pinpoint the time of death to within a few minutes.

[berybert]

Talking of jeans I seem to recall many moons ago Greenchair posting a picture of someone walking undressed on their bottom half after the murders.

Wasn't number 9 wearing jeans in the video of him and David shaking hands ?

Doesn't number 9 resemble Nomsod ?

Bloody hell Watson I think we have found our killer !! No shit Sherlock.

[boomerangutang]

Sean McAnna completely refusing to comment is ridiculous. Or Gianni DiLupo whatever that nonce is calling himself these days.

How does he know that? I never read in the news about these french girls. However, if this is true... the girls may hear languages, names or strange voice etc.? Are they in court as witnesses? Somebody knows more about this?

Sean McAnna is >Gianni DeLupo

recently chaged to

>Sean DiLupo (Facebook)

----Seans chat with unknown person (part of it )----

1.JPG 2.JPG

Thanks for that, though even if one or two girls were brought in to the trial as witnesses, I don't think they'd be much use in this case. Prosecution could say, "Did you see any of the people shouting?". Girls respond, "No, we were too scared to even open the door." Prosecution: "Thanks, you're dismissed."

If true (it sounds v. plausible to me), then it could serve as further proof, as if any were needed, of police cover-up - for not even mentioning any of that (questioning the girls, etc). Similarly, there are several other question sessions we'll probably never hear the details of: Sean, Chris Ware, The taxi driver who was allegedly offered money to lie, the fast-boat driver who probably took Nomsod to catch a plane, Mon himself (questioned for 3 hours by RTP), and likely many others.

[boomerangutang]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

[berybert]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

I don't think the Brits lied to the families. I think the Brits told the families to say they were happy with what was going on so as not to give them (the RTP) any chance to find out what they know.

No time to make up another story.

[fayou]

Sean McAnna completely refusing to comment is ridiculous. Or Gianni DiLupo whatever that nonce is calling himself these days.

How does he know that? I never read in the news about these french girls. However, if this is true... the girls may hear languages, names or strange voice etc.? Are they in court as witnesses? Somebody knows more about this?

Sean McAnna is >Gianni DeLupo

recently chaged to

>Sean DiLupo (Facebook)

----Seans chat with unknown person (part of it )----

1.JPG 2.JPG

Thanks for that, though even if one or two girls were brought in to the trial as witnesses, I don't think they'd be much use in this case. Prosecution could say, "Did you see any of the people shouting?". Girls respond, "No, we were too scared to even open the door." Prosecution: "Thanks, you're dismissed."

If true (it sounds v. plausible to me), then it could serve as further proof, as if any were needed, of police cover-up - for not even mentioning any of that (questioning the girls, etc). Similarly, there are several other question sessions we'll probably never hear the details of: Sean, Chris Ware, The taxi driver who was allegedly offered money to lie, the fast-boat driver who probably took Nomsod to catch a plane, Mon himself (questioned for 3 hours by RTP), and likely many others.

I agree totally ... but still.. if true... to find these girls... maybe a breakthrough..?

[BoristheBlade]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

You don't know what they have told the families and we all don't know what the families have been told to do or say,

I think the views of the families will be after the trial and I think they will be damming.

And if you do'n think the Brits are aware of what the real Thailand is about, you got to be kidding me!

Just talk to the Ambassador in Bangkok in private, you will get the real story....

[loonodingle]

Virtually everybody has a mobile phone, surely looking at phone activity my hold some clues.

I bet the perpetrators made a call to at least one person after the murder...

How many boat owners got a call in the early hours? and then their phone signal was registered within two or three hours on the mainland or Samui?

surely there must be software/systems available to detect from the phone companies records any phone that was on the island at the time Hannah and David was seen alive and appeared on the mainland or Samui before the first ferries.

Basil,

No one in power wants to look M8. Not at the CCTV not at anything that wouldn't support their theory.

Sit back and wait for the next round. You will see some revelations coming that will shake the RTP to the core

I wish we could hear the revelations but I honestly don't think it will happen. The defence is Thai and they have already had reported confrontation with the RTP and prosecutors outside the court room. They know if they go to far, they are putting themselves at serious risk. And by serious I mean the ultimate sacrifice!

Face is number one in Thailand, and when it comes to the Prime Minister and the Chief of Police face simply won't be allowed to be lost. Both these "gentlemen" have stated their reputations on the RTP case, do you think it will be publicly shown to have been incorrect? NOT A CHANCE.

Tragic, disgusting but true, after all this is Thailand!

Oh I think u under estimate the efforts that have gone into this in the UK. Reprieve and Lawyers inc a QC. Pressure on the police for details. They have worked quietly behind the scenes.

The Forensic expert who is on contract to the Uk Military and the UN and has worked on forensic work in Kosovo as well as leading the forensic department for county police forces has also been to Koh Tao. He will be making an appearance.

I don't think they are to concerned about the Mafia and lets face it Andy Hall and the lead lawyer don't give a flying F"*K about the Mafia. In fact Andy thrives on it.

The gloves have already come off in the way they made the RTP look like fools and its only warming up.

A months break gives time to re-examine comments and evidence submitted so far. I think its played into the defences hands.

[Fat Haggis]

Why do they keep adjourning this trial for weeks at a time? Why not continue the case, until all the evidence has been presented as in no breaks ?

Is it purely to give the RTP more time to get their shit together, and the outcome is already decided?

You would have thought that the prosecution would have been keen to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible?

Is the Prosecution now reeling at their own witnesses candidness over their statements, like DNA is finished, and no budget for storing photos?

What a total waste of time and money this trial is.

[loonodingle]

Why do they keep adjourning this trial for weeks at a time? Why not continue the case, until all the evidence has been presented as in no breaks ?

Is it purely to give the RTP more time to get their shit together, and the outcome is already decided?

You would have thought that the prosecution would have been keen to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible?

Is the Prosecution now reeling at their own witnesses candidness over their statements, like DNA is finished, and no budget for storing photos?

What a total waste of time and money this trial is.

The Reason was the time needed and the lawyers and judges had previous commitments so they have had to stagger it. Yes the prosecution would have loved to have it wrapped I think as well however its not been possible. This was an explanation given by Natalie one of the team of Defence lawyers

[BritTim]

Why do they keep adjourning this trial for weeks at a time? Why not continue the case, until all the evidence has been presented as in no breaks ?

Is it purely to give the RTP more time to get their shit together, and the outcome is already decided?

You would have thought that the prosecution would have been keen to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible?

Is the Prosecution now reeling at their own witnesses candidness over their statements, like DNA is finished, and no budget for storing photos?

What a total waste of time and money this trial is.

One theory why the trial was broken into pieces is that it would be very expensive for the media to cover the trial. Many trips back and forth to Koh Samui was probably designed (and probably successfully) to deter many media organizations from sending reporters to cover the trial.

[boomerangutang]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

I don't think the Brits lied to the families. I think the Brits told the families to say they were happy with what was going on so as not to give them (the RTP) any chance to find out what they know. No time to make up another story.

If that's true, then it's a yucky way to do business (to tell the families to lie). Why can't anyone tell the truth?!?

[Thesticle]

I made posts quoting this article that were swiftly deleted so here is a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

[boomerangutang]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

You don't know what they have told the families and we all don't know what the families have been told to do or say,

I think the views of the families will be after the trial and I think they will be damming.

And if you do'n think the Brits are aware of what the real Thailand is about, you got to be kidding me!

Just talk to the Ambassador in Bangkok in private, you will get the real story....

British ambassador Kent was shown smiling and all-chummy with RTP chief - early on in the investigation. If I was the Brit ambassador, I sure wouldn't be giggling with the RTP chief and slapping him on the back like an old chum. I'd be saying, "Hey. We want to see a professional investigation. Here's an old English expression, and it's your study phrase for the week: 'Leave No Stone Unturned.' That's what your guys have to do, if they're able. If not, you're welcome to learn how to do crime investigations from a crack British team. They can be here in two days. Is that ok? "

Then I might go and tell the RTP chief about a time when a small group British and HK soldier/climbers got lost in a giant ravine in Malaysia. The Malaysians didn't have a clue about mountain rescue, so they allowed a British team to fly in on a military helicopter to lead the search. The Malaysian police made one caveat: The British experts must teach the Malaysian police all they know about mountain rescue. The Brits said, "fine', but first we've got to get cracking and rescue those boys who've been lost in that ravine for five days."

[BoristheBlade]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

You don't know what they have told the families and we all don't know what the families have been told to do or say,

I think the views of the families will be after the trial and I think they will be damming.

And if you do'n think the Brits are aware of what the real Thailand is about, you got to be kidding me!

Just talk to the Ambassador in Bangkok in private, you will get the real story....

British ambassador Kent was shown smiling and all-chummy with RTP chief - early on in the investigation. If I was the Brit ambassador, I sure wouldn't be giggling with the RTP chief and slapping him on the back like an old chum. I'd be saying, "Hey. We want to see a professional investigation. Here's an old English expression, and it's your study phrase for the week: 'Leave No Stone Unturned.' That's what your guys have to do, if they're able. If not, you're welcome to learn how to do crime investigations from a crack British team. They can be here in two days. Is that ok? "

Then I might go and tell the RTP chief about a time when a small group British and HK soldier/climbers got lost in a giant ravine in Malaysia. The Malaysians didn't have a clue about mountain rescue, so they allowed a British team to fly in on a military helicopter to lead the search. The Malaysian police made one caveat: The British experts must teach the Malaysian police all they know about mountain rescue. The Brits said, "fine', but first we've got to get cracking and rescue those boys who've been lost in that ravine for five days."

Mr Kent also has to follow diplomatic procedure, that's his job.

Like it or not, politics also plays it's part, on both sides!

That's also why I don't understand why the Thai's are going to so much trouble to protect persons of interest. And the reason this is far bigger thn taking care of the "headman" this go's far higher than him.

[Chetzee]

I would like to ask JTJ, AleG and jdinasia if he is still around a question.

The prosecution said the clothes were piled neatly on a rock. Up until they showed that picture of the clothes piled neatly on a rock I have never seen it before.

What I have seen is clothes tossed all over the beach around lots of blood.

Are you saying the pictures of the clothes tossed on the beach don't exist and are a figment of a CT's mind ?

When you see things with your own eyes and then someone in a uniform tells you what you have seen doesn't exist then I think it only fair to call them liars.

blood on beach.jpg

Is this picture real or am I dreaming it ?

You have to assume that the court has not seen the picture of the scattered clothes and David's body out to sea? Otherwise that would show the first on scene policeman's testimony to be untrue.

If the prosecution choose to only show certain cctv footage to the court then I presume they also do the same with pictures (although they did say they did not have the budget to store some - what does a flash drive cost? not much more than a few rotis).

I assume the judges make their decisions based on what 'evidence' is presented to the court, which is basically anything the RTP want to show or say to try and help their story make a semblance of sense. The picture showing the scattered clothes and David in the sea - Would it have been possible for the defence to show that or do they not get to do that sort of thing?

That's a good point and your right why didn't they challenge that. I can't imagine that the defense don't know about the scattered clothes pictures. Maybe there holding back and using it to prove the crime scene was compromised and bodies etc had been moved. Maybe in the Thai court system you can't challenge but they put questions to other witness for the prosecution. Maybe they haven't seen the pics !! Or of course they could have something that blows the whole case out of the water anyway and it isn't that relevant. All speculation but keeps us engaged

Here it is again maybe he missed it.

clothes2.jpg

here they r somewhat later for a police news brief .....

[berybert]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

I don't think the Brits lied to the families. I think the Brits told the families to say they were happy with what was going on so as not to give them (the RTP) any chance to find out what they know. No time to make up another story.

If that's true, then it's a yucky way to do business (to tell the families to lie). Why can't anyone tell the truth?!?

When you are dealing with shysters such as the RTP you sometimes have to play them at their own game.

And maybe when the families said there was a strong case to answer, they could have been talking about the RTP rather than the Burmese. So may not have lied to anyone.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I am sorry but there is one thing, and perhaps the last for awhile, that I must say.

This has got to be the worst Media Reporting that I have seen in my life-time!

That is including the covering any news. sporting or criminal event. I am not signaling out any one newspaper here as they all seem to be the same. You get the odd article one day, where it seems biased, but the next you get someone reporting 2 sentences on big news, and 6 paragraphs that seems like you are reading his opinion and not the news at all. How many more times do I have to read that Amnesty International is investigating any wrong doings in this case but not a bloody word as to their progress. Other then trying to set up some interviews months ago.

I mean even when they get news they don't report it the way it is stated. Like no we don't have that...no it was lost...no it was used up....yes! Who told you that, we have that? Or like this last link someone provided, which I will link later again. I was just proven by a poster here, and rightly so, that when Lin went to trial in December he showed his Passport to show he was in Thailand Legally. They never did report if he was or not, as they need that space to go on about Amnesty International again. So it is left up to us to assume.

But this link today says that the 2 accused were charged with illegally working in Thailand. So does that mean that Lin was here on a tourist visa but not allowed to work, or does this mean this statement is incorrect. Why do we constantly have to be guessing what the man is trying to say? Why not say Lin was allowed to be here but not allowed to work. Isn't there job to report the news clearly and so that we all understand what he is saying, and not have to keep guessing all the time?

Or the clothes for example at the crime scene. Originally shown not scattered but not in a neat pile.Then 11 months later they are in a neat pile. It is then media reported that the first officer on the scene found them this way. Then that got changed to the 2nd Police Officer on the scene. Then it is reported he didn't say anything about how the clothes were found but rather it was the Prosecutor who said this.

Then you get the Head of Forensics on the stand for what? Nearly a whole day was it? The the news comes out then next day and all you get is a few paragraphs. Only Hannah's Blood was found on the hoe and we duplicate and general save DNA and save that for 1 to 2 years. Surely in all this time she must have said more than just that. There may be a ban on publications, but if there is say so! Surely there is no ban on saying there is one.

Just take the time of death for instance. I would bet my bottom dollar that in a way earlier News Media Report they said the time of death was between the hours of 2 am and 4 am. Then someone posted to me that it was actually 4:30 am. Which even though I didn't see that time change, I couldn't contest as he could be right. Now from this link it says 5:30 am. Jesus Christ! Is the next time I hear this is it going to be on a different day. Did the media report this incorrectly? Did the person who said this change his mind? If that is so then tell us he did and why? That is your job and what you are suppose to do!

Even us Arm Chair Quarter Backs can do a better job then Media Reports. We know David hit the AC Bar at around 2 am to meet up with Hannah. Say an hour at least for some chit chat and a beer or 2 then they would have left around 3 am. Say another 20 minutes to stroll to the rocks, and another 10 minuted before being attacked and that places this time at 3;30 am. The Rapes must have taken some time at least before she was murdered, So say 30 minutes and now you got 4:00 am as the time of death. Beach Cleaner finds bodies at 5;45 am (or close to that) and there you have. Without even seeing the bodies we could have deduced the time of death from 4:00 am to 5;30 am. So who needs media to report to us the 3 different times of death when we could have done a better job on our own.

I know I have bumped heads here with a lot of you, but please don't take this personal. I now I don't. Except for Name Calling. I know many here have very strong feelings and opinions about this case. Some justified. Some not so much. But I was only expressing my opinion to at that time, and I honestly felt like it based it on what I had read in the media, reporting about this case, and from the evidence they were said to be holding.

At the moment I have very little faith in the News Media Reporting this case. If you have to go to a Human Rights Activist to get your news, you should know something is wrong right from the start. This is not meant to be an insult to these people as I am sure they have a good place in society. I am merely pointing out that it would be difficult for them to be biased when I think news reporting should be,

I honestly don't know how you guys feel about what has been reported on this case, but I know how I feel about it.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/families-hear-gruesome-details-as-trial-for-thailand-murders-of-two-british-tourists-begins/story-fnh81fz8-1227434677803 . .

.

I agree that the coverage of what's actually been taking place in the courtroom has been minimal. It's hard to decipher how the case it being argued when all we get are soundbites or a short synopsis. It also doesn't help when journalists are obstructed ie: not being allowed to take notes , translators threatened off the job.

I don't really think you can deny that the police have made a pigs ear out of this case and in typical Thai fashion instead of accepting culpability have deflected criticism and dug a rather large hole for themselves.I find your arguments often rely on the ability to take the polices word as gospel. It's common knowledge here that RTP are notorious for conspiring to subvert justice to suit their nefarious agendas. I think you mean well but are just naive to the realities of dealing with Thai police, no offence. Nobody knows who did this but people are right to question the evidence as it has been shown time and time again that the police here do not always apply justice in a way would be considered fair by international standards.

I do admit that I tend to defend one basic principle here, which is not what people think. What I strongly believe, referring only to this particular case, is that this rape and murders is not a cover-up nor where they looking for scapegoats that took 2 weeks to find. This case has had International Media Attention for the day this happened. It has involved some very High Ranking Police Officials and also including the Top Man in Thailand and the Top Man in the UK, and the Top Man in Myanmar.

Even then, if it was only their word against the word of the accused, as it appears to be right now with the alleged forced confessions, it isn't. The Prosecution has reported through the Media (if you can believe that) a strong and convincing case once all the evidence comes out. In particular 5 items. I have not seen or heard anything from the Defense Side so far except rumors and poking holes in the Prosecutions case. But all this evidence both sides they claim to have will have to come out in court.

So I just don't believe it is a cover-up. Does that make me so unreasonable and worthy of name calling? That I don't believe 2 police men would take a swab and place the 2 accused sperm (heaven knows how they would get that) inside of Hannah. That the entire Forensic Lab Team is falsifying evidence. That the Prosecutor would submit evidence of crucial DNA tests but not have the paper work to back them? And this list goes on.

Do they have the wrong people? That is for the court to decide based on evidence that will be presented in the coming months and not me. But again the Prosecution appears to have a strong and convincing case against the accused.

You may not know this but I was one of the first to post here on this case and one of the first things I said was that the police should stop all transportation leaving the Island. I even explained one of my long stories how a friend of mine was on a passenger ship landing in Italy and the Police keep everyone on-board for 3 days and until a missing person was solved. I was also one of the first ones to say they should protect the integrity of the Crime Scene.

Yes, the presentation of this case seems in shambles at times. You just don't know who to believe. Not having a Translator certainly is not helping the cause but in all honesty, don't you think it is time for them to stop crying about that? The Reports first reported this about 3 weeks ago, Plenty of time to bring someone from there own country who speaks and understands Thai. Hell, there are Farangs in Thailand who can do that. Andy is one of them.

Sure I know some of the rumors of the goings on in Thailand. I have to use the words alleged as personally this never happen to me and after living their a very long time. But this case is far more serious then just paying a fine to a traffic cop so you don't have to go to the Police Station. I have also worked in countries far more corrupt than Thailand, so maybe this doesn't fizz on me as much. Where you had to slide 5 bucks in your passport to just get in the country regardless of your visa. Or in another where Gaddafi was in charge. Or yet another where we had to travel to work with a Police Escort and in Bullet Proof Buses. And this list goes on and on.

[Si Thea01]

Why do they keep adjourning this trial for weeks at a time? Why not continue the case, until all the evidence has been presented as in no breaks ?

Is it purely to give the RTP more time to get their shit together, and the outcome is already decided?

You would have thought that the prosecution would have been keen to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible?

Is the Prosecution now reeling at their own witnesses candidness over their statements, like DNA is finished, and no budget for storing photos?

What a total waste of time and money this trial is.

One theory why the trial was broken into pieces is that it would be very expensive for the media to cover the trial. Many trips back and forth to Koh Samui was probably designed (and probably successfully) to deter many media organizations from sending reporters to cover the trial.

There are many reasons for courts to be adjourned, happens all the time back home. I'd say the theory expressed is total hyperbole, they have more important tasks to worry about then postponing a matter to prevent reporters from covering the hearing. I am certain that if certain parties did not want coverage, then a few phone calls would see to that, not going to the expense of having adjournments.

For instance, witnesses may not be available, defence team may need time to evaluate certain evidence given and to prepare for cross examination. Prosecution and defence may be waiting on the re-testing of certain evidence. Judges may well be involved in other cases, and have certain sitting days logged. The list is endless however, I doubt very much that the one theory referred to would be found any where in the list..

[loonodingle]

Why do they keep adjourning this trial for weeks at a time? Why not continue the case, until all the evidence has been presented as in no breaks ?

Is it purely to give the RTP more time to get their shit together, and the outcome is already decided?

You would have thought that the prosecution would have been keen to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible?

Is the Prosecution now reeling at their own witnesses candidness over their statements, like DNA is finished, and no budget for storing photos?

What a total waste of time and money this trial is.

One theory why the trial was broken into pieces is that it would be very expensive for the media to cover the trial. Many trips back and forth to Koh Samui was probably designed (and probably successfully) to deter many media organizations from sending reporters to cover the trial.

There are many reasons for courts to be adjourned, happens all the time back home. I'd say the theory expressed is total hyperbole, they have more important tasks to worry about then postponing a matter to prevent reporters from covering the hearing. I am certain that if certain parties did not want coverage, then a few phone calls would see to that, not going to the expense of having adjournments.

For instance, witnesses may not be available, defence team may need time to evaluate certain evidence given and to prepare for cross examination. Prosecution and defence may be waiting on the re-testing of certain evidence. Judges may well be involved in other cases, and have certain sitting days logged. The list is endless however, I doubt very much that the one theory referred to would be found any where in the list..

It was to fit the diaries of the judges and lawyer's. Because of the long trial its not normal. Its a good thi g anyway for the defence. They are funded as well and have no concerns.

[apetley]

I am sorry but there is one thing, and perhaps the last for awhile, that I must say.

This has got to be the worst Media Reporting that I have seen in my life-time!

That is including the covering any news. sporting or criminal event. I am not signaling out any one newspaper here as they all seem to be the same. You get the odd article one day, where it seems biased, but the next you get someone reporting 2 sentences on big news, and 6 paragraphs that seems like you are reading his opinion and not the news at all. How many more times do I have to read that Amnesty International is investigating any wrong doings in this case but not a bloody word as to their progress. Other then trying to set up some interviews months ago.

I mean even when they get news they don't report it the way it is stated. Like no we don't have that...no it was lost...no it was used up....yes! Who told you that, we have that? Or like this last link someone provided, which I will link later again. I was just proven by a poster here, and rightly so, that when Lin went to trial in December he showed his Passport to show he was in Thailand Legally. They never did report if he was or not, as they need that space to go on about Amnesty International again. So it is left up to us to assume.

But this link today says that the 2 accused were charged with illegally working in Thailand. So does that mean that Lin was here on a tourist visa but not allowed to work, or does this mean this statement is incorrect. Why do we constantly have to be guessing what the man is trying to say? Why not say Lin was allowed to be here but not allowed to work. Isn't there job to report the news clearly and so that we all understand what he is saying, and not have to keep guessing all the time?

Or the clothes for example at the crime scene. Originally shown not scattered but not in a neat pile.Then 11 months later they are in a neat pile. It is then media reported that the first officer on the scene found them this way. Then that got changed to the 2nd Police Officer on the scene. Then it is reported he didn't say anything about how the clothes were found but rather it was the Prosecutor who said this.

Then you get the Head of Forensics on the stand for what? Nearly a whole day was it? The the news comes out then next day and all you get is a few paragraphs. Only Hannah's Blood was found on the hoe and we duplicate and general save DNA and save that for 1 to 2 years. Surely in all this time she must have said more than just that. There may be a ban on publications, but if there is say so! Surely there is no ban on saying there is one.

Just take the time of death for instance. I would bet my bottom dollar that in a way earlier News Media Report they said the time of death was between the hours of 2 am and 4 am. Then someone posted to me that it was actually 4:30 am. Which even though I didn't see that time change, I couldn't contest as he could be right. Now from this link it says 5:30 am. Jesus Christ! Is the next time I hear this is it going to be on a different day. Did the media report this incorrectly? Did the person who said this change his mind? If that is so then tell us he did and why? That is your job and what you are suppose to do!

Even us Arm Chair Quarter Backs can do a better job then Media Reports. We know David hit the AC Bar at around 2 am to meet up with Hannah. Say an hour at least for some chit chat and a beer or 2 then they would have left around 3 am. Say another 20 minutes to stroll to the rocks, and another 10 minuted before being attacked and that places this time at 3;30 am. The Rapes must have taken some time at least before she was murdered, So say 30 minutes and now you got 4:00 am as the time of death. Beach Cleaner finds bodies at 5;45 am (or close to that) and there you have. Without even seeing the bodies we could have deduced the time of death from 4:00 am to 5;30 am. So who needs media to report to us the 3 different times of death when we could have done a better job on our own.

I know I have bumped heads here with a lot of you, but please don't take this personal. I now I don't. Except for Name Calling. I know many here have very strong feelings and opinions about this case. Some justified. Some not so much. But I was only expressing my opinion to at that time, and I honestly felt like it based it on what I had read in the media, reporting about this case, and from the evidence they were said to be holding.

At the moment I have very little faith in the News Media Reporting this case. If you have to go to a Human Rights Activist to get your news, you should know something is wrong right from the start. This is not meant to be an insult to these people as I am sure they have a good place in society. I am merely pointing out that it would be difficult for them to be biased when I think news reporting should be,

I honestly don't know how you guys feel about what has been reported on this case, but I know how I feel about it.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/families-hear-gruesome-details-as-trial-for-thailand-murders-of-two-british-tourists-begins/story-fnh81fz8-1227434677803 . .

.

I agree that the coverage of what's actually been taking place in the courtroom has been minimal. It's hard to decipher how the case it being argued when all we get are soundbites or a short synopsis. It also doesn't help when journalists are obstructed ie: not being allowed to take notes , translators threatened off the job.

I don't really think you can deny that the police have made a pigs ear out of this case and in typical Thai fashion instead of accepting culpability have deflected criticism and dug a rather large hole for themselves.I find your arguments often rely on the ability to take the polices word as gospel. It's common knowledge here that RTP are notorious for conspiring to subvert justice to suit their nefarious agendas. I think you mean well but are just naive to the realities of dealing with Thai police, no offence. Nobody knows who did this but people are right to question the evidence as it has been shown time and time again that the police here do not always apply justice in a way would be considered fair by international standards.

I do admit that I tend to defend one basic principle here, which is not what people think. What I strongly believe, referring only to this particular case, is that this rape and murders is not a cover-up nor where they looking for scapegoats that took 2 weeks to find. This case has had International Media Attention for the day this happened. It has involved some very High Ranking Police Officials and also including the Top Man in Thailand and the Top Man in the UK, and the Top Man in Myanmar.

Even then, if it was only their word against the word of the accused, as it appears to be right now with the alleged forced confessions, it isn't. The Prosecution has reported through the Media (if you can believe that) a strong and convincing case once all the evidence comes out. In particular 5 items. I have not seen or heard anything from the Defense Side so far except rumors and poking holes in the Prosecutions case. But all this evidence both sides they claim to have will have to come out in court.

So I just don't believe it is a cover-up. Does that make me so unreasonable and worthy of name calling? That I don't believe 2 police men would take a swab and place the 2 accused sperm (heaven knows how they would get that) inside of Hannah. That the entire Forensic Lab Team is falsifying evidence. That the Prosecutor would submit evidence of crucial DNA tests but not have the paper work to back them? And this list goes on.

Do they have the wrong people? That is for the court to decide based on evidence that will be presented in the coming months and not me. But again the Prosecution appears to have a strong and convincing case against the accused.

You may not know this but I was one of the first to post here on this case and one of the first things I said was that the police should stop all transportation leaving the Island. I even explained one of my long stories how a friend of mine was on a passenger ship landing in Italy and the Police keep everyone on-board for 3 days and until a missing person was solved. I was also one of the first ones to say they should protect the integrity of the Crime Scene.

Yes, the presentation of this case seems in shambles at times. You just don't know who to believe. Not having a Translator certainly is not helping the cause but in all honesty, don't you think it is time for them to stop crying about that? The Reports first reported this about 3 weeks ago, Plenty of time to bring someone from there own country who speaks and understands Thai. Hell, there are Farangs in Thailand who can do that. Andy is one of them.

Sure I know some of the rumors of the goings on in Thailand. I have to use the words alleged as personally this never happen to me and after living their a very long time. But this case is far more serious then just paying a fine to a traffic cop so you don't have to go to the Police Station. I have also worked in countries far more corrupt than Thailand, so maybe this doesn't fizz on me as much. Where you had to slide 5 bucks in your passport to just get in the country regardless of your visa. Or in another where Gaddafi was in charge. Or yet another where we had to travel to work with a Police Escort and in Bullet Proof Buses. And this list goes on and on.

I absolutely doubt if the forensic lab has falsified data/results for it is they themselves who raised doubts as to the security of the DNA. Unfortunately thaivisa will not allow me to link to the original story but try googling ' Kamrob Panyakeaw' 'Bangkok Police Forensic Institute' and a nameless site to read of their own fears about lack of safeguards preventing the substitution of DNA.

[thailandchilli]

Why do they keep adjourning this trial for weeks at a time? Why not continue the case, until all the evidence has been presented as in no breaks ?

Is it purely to give the RTP more time to get their shit together, and the outcome is already decided?

You would have thought that the prosecution would have been keen to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible?

Is the Prosecution now reeling at their own witnesses candidness over their statements, like DNA is finished, and no budget for storing photos?

What a total waste of time and money this trial is.

One theory why the trial was broken into pieces is that it would be very expensive for the media to cover the trial. Many trips back and forth to Koh Samui was probably designed (and probably successfully) to deter many media organizations from sending reporters to cover the trial.

There are many reasons for courts to be adjourned, happens all the time back home. I'd say the theory expressed is total hyperbole, they have more important tasks to worry about then postponing a matter to prevent reporters from covering the hearing. I am certain that if certain parties did not want coverage, then a few phone calls would see to that, not going to the expense of having adjournments.

For instance, witnesses may not be available, defence team may need time to evaluate certain evidence given and to prepare for cross examination. Prosecution and defence may be waiting on the re-testing of certain evidence. Judges may well be involved in other cases, and have certain sitting days logged. The list is endless however, I doubt very much that the one theory referred to would be found any where in the list..

It was to fit the diaries of the judges and lawyer's. Because of the long trial its not normal. Its a good thi g anyway for the defence. They are funded as well and have no concerns.

Andy's currently in the UK for a family birthday then meeting up with ??? on the Koh Tao case

[docshock13]

I am surprised that the defense even mentioned they have critical evidence to support their case. If I had the proverbial "ace up my sleeve" I wouldn't let the dealer, house or other players know about it. I would keep mum and play my cards when the time is right.

Seems strange (given the schedule of the trial) that the defense would give the prosecution a gift like that. Unless of course, as a matter of procedure,they have to. I am unfamiliar with Thai legal\criminal procedure in terms of things like discovery etc. So I don't want to talk out of me arse. Just sharing an observation.

[sambum]

I am surprised that the defense even mentioned they have critical evidence to support their case. If I had the proverbial "ace up my sleeve" I wouldn't let the dealer, house or other players know about it. I would keep mum and play my cards when the time is right.

Seems strange (given the schedule of the trial) that the defense would give the prosecution a gift like that. Unless of course, as a matter of procedure,they have to. I am unfamiliar with Thai legal\criminal procedure in terms of things like discovery etc. So I don't want to talk out of me arse. Just sharing an observation.

Maybe to get them in (more of) a panic, wondering what the "ace up the sleeve" is, and possibly forcing their hand? They have certainly not given the prosecution a "gift" in any shape or form! After the latest revelations about what should have been done by the RTP and wasn't, who knows what further surprises are in store?

Have a look at this:- http://www.dailymail...ve-outcome.html