Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[JohnThailandJohn]

Still awaiting an answer to my question. seems to been ignored by the RTP supporters. If this was a family member. Would you be happy with this investigation?

If you choose to ignore this post again I will name you directly. Man up and make a divinative statement. Yes or no please! Please do not use beliefs linked to irrevalant beliefs.

The question is very simple!

If the victims were relatives I would be first shocked by gossip and speculation can be read here.

I think the biggest mistake the police was to have provided some information at the beginning of the case. They thus allowed the lounge detectives to trick their boredom by spreading day after day gross and improper assumptions.

I also think that DNA against-test will confirm the version of the police and that Scotland Yard also conducted verify at the bodies reception. For me that's why they broadly endorsed the investigation.

Unfortunately for relatives, the conspiracy will continue their cabal by questioning collecting on the victims' bodies. They will be fewer but still aggressive to avoid a too big ridicule.

Why does it matter? Why not look at what the actual victim's family have stated?

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

The families of Miller and Witheridge issued statements thanking police detectives for reviewing the case, and calling for the investigation to be allowed to take its course, The Guardian reported.

Miller's family said: "We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

[thailandchilli]

Miller had two phones, one his regular iPhone (the one allegedly taken by the men on trial) and a cheaper phone that he could actually use while in Thailand since the iPhone was blocked; that's the one found at the beach.

This has been known for a long time already.

Explain why he would take out a phone that was blocked. Wouldn't you keep it in your bag.

This was my initial reaction also, but consider this. All his friends' and family members' phone numbers were on his regular phone, and he might not have got around to copying them over. This could also explain why he did not just get a new sim for the iPhone.

Also lets remember that David was an intelligent young man who left the UK prepared for a considerable time away. First to Australia for a work placement for 6 weeks and then to Koh Tao for some fun before heading back to Uni in the UK. I'm pretty sure he would have sorted out his phone before he left the UK, either got his network provider to switch to roaming or got another phone for this purpose. Either way there would be absolutely no need to be carrying 2 phones around with him on a night out in Koh Tao.

[Nigeone]

Miller had two phones, one his regular iPhone (the one allegedly taken by the men on trial) and a cheaper phone that he could actually use while in Thailand since the iPhone was blocked; that's the one found at the beach.

This has been known for a long time already.

Explain why he would take out a phone that was blocked. Wouldn't you keep it in your bag.

This was my initial reaction also, but consider this. All his friends' and family members' phone numbers were on his regular phone, and he might not have got around to copying them over. This could also explain why he did not just get a new sim for the iPhone.

Also lets remember that David was an intelligent young man who left the UK prepared for a considerable time away. First to Australia for a work placement for 6 weeks and then to Koh Tao for some fun before heading back to Uni in the UK. I'm pretty sure he would have sorted out his phone before he left the UK, either got his network provider to switch to roaming or got another phone for this purpose. Either way there would be absolutely no need to be carrying 2 phones around with him on a night out in Koh Tao.

I understand what and why your saying that but I usually go to Thailand and stay at least 3 months at a time and most nights would have both my phones with me. One my smart phone and another old one with Thai SIM card in. I do also have a Thai SIM card for my smart phone just to cover all options. I can switch to roaming fine if needed on my home simm but roaming is very very expensive where I'm from so not really a long term option although again a good option to,have in case!

[smedly]

Still awaiting an answer to my question. seems to been ignored by the RTP supporters. If this was a family member. Would you be happy with this investigation?

If you choose to ignore this post again I will name you directly. Man up and make a divinative statement. Yes or no please! Please do not use beliefs linked to irrevalant beliefs.

The question is very simple!

If the victims were relatives I would be first shocked by gossip and speculation can be read here.

I think the biggest mistake the police was to have provided some information at the beginning of the case. They thus allowed the lounge detectives to trick their boredom by spreading day after day gross and improper assumptions.

I also think that DNA against-test will confirm the version of the police and that Scotland Yard also conducted verify at the bodies reception. For me that's why they broadly endorsed the investigation.

Unfortunately for relatives, the conspiracy will continue their cabal by questioning collecting on the victims' bodies. They will be fewer but still aggressive to avoid a too big ridicule.

Why does it matter? Why not look at what the actual victim's family have stated?

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

The families of Miller and Witheridge issued statements thanking police detectives for reviewing the case, and calling for the investigation to be allowed to take its course, The Guardian reported.

Miller's family said: "We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

you can't help yourself can you, how many times have you posted this stuff on this same thread, in my opinion that is called trolling

[thailandchilli]

This was my initial reaction also, but consider this. All his friends' and family members' phone numbers were on his regular phone, and he might not have got around to copying them over. This could also explain why he did not just get a new sim for the iPhone.

Also lets remember that David was an intelligent young man who left the UK prepared for a considerable time away. First to Australia for a work placement for 6 weeks and then to Koh Tao for some fun before heading back to Uni in the UK. I'm pretty sure he would have sorted out his phone before he left the UK, either got his network provider to switch to roaming or got another phone for this purpose. Either way there would be absolutely no need to be carrying 2 phones around with him on a night out in Koh Tao.

I understand what and why your saying that but I usually go to Thailand and stay at least 3 months at a time and most nights would have both my phones with me. One my smart phone and another old one with Thai SIM card in. I do also have a Thai SIM card for my smart phone just to cover all options. I can switch to roaming fine if needed on my home simm but roaming is very very expensive where I'm from so not really a long term option although again a good option to,have in case!

Yes good points and its possible however I have my doubts coupled with the fact that he returned to his room with his mate Chris in the early hours only to leave again after 20 mins saying he's going out to buy some cigarettes. If that was his intention why bring both phones out with him again at 1am or whatever time it was. But stranger things do happen I guess like the report from the RTP that he went into a shop and bought sunglasses.

Still does not explain RTP in court not confirming if this was his phone, he must have known if it is or not. More coverups or more extreme incompetence of a blundered investigation

[Nigeone]

Yes your right Smedly. But I wonder if they were asked the same questions now and the foreign office issued a statement on there behalf how the context would compare now after the first 2 trial blocks ? I know if I was a relative what I'd be having to say !!

While speculation isn't good but understandable some times and certainly in this case any root cause of most speculation is firmly at the feet of initially the PM and followed very soon after by the RTP in everything they said and did, or didn't do !

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nigeone

[Si Thea01]

Still awaiting an answer to my question. seems to been ignored by the RTP supporters. If this was a family member. Would you be happy with this investigation?

If you choose to ignore this post again I will name you directly. Man up and make a divinative statement. Yes or no please! Please do not use beliefs linked to irrevalant beliefs.

The question is very simple!

Clearly, you support the two Burmese men, and that is commendable but others, who have an opposing view, you imply that they're RTP supporters. Can you tell me what gives you the right to demand anything from anyone. And the best of all, is if they don't meet you demands, you will name and shame them. I think we all know who is who by now, those for and those against, so your veiled threat means little and to demand answers is really astounding. And no, I do not support either side, all I hope for, that one way or another, justice will be served. And just to answer your question, Not inclined but if you asked it of yourself, then maybe you will have the response you're looking for.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I am almost certain that the initial DNA tests were not performed in Thailand I think Singapore The story seems to change as it goes along

Reports since last Sept have said testing has been carried out by the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok.

OK!

Since my first Post to this was BLOCKED! I will try to reword it.....

"Was not the original DNA Testing done in Singapore???"

Why and how did the Thai Police get credit and under what Authority were they even Authorized?

Does it not take 24 hrs for Lab's to complete each test of each DNA Sample for a correct comparison?

I do not know a any Country in the World where "B.S. doesn't Stink" Manure is a smelly substance regardless of where it came from....

Great! We have alleged former Police Men, Lawyers, Psychologists, Weapons Specialists, Forensic Experts, and Teachers to correct our Spelling and Grammar, all posting here. But finally we have our first Poopoo Expert, which I expect he will try to point out Bull-shit to us when he sees it. Cool!

[boomerangutang]

Why not look at what the actual victim's family have stated?

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

The families of Miller and Witheridge issued statements thanking police detectives for reviewing the case, and calling for the investigation to be allowed to take its course, The Guardian reported.

Miller's family said: "We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

Yes John, thanks for posting that for the 13th time. We've seen it. It was one member of one family who made that statement. It was 8 months ago. A lot's happened in 8 months. The statement was made based on lies the family was told, by people who were told lies in Thailand. Lies built upon lies.

[Nigeone]

I am almost certain that the initial DNA tests were not performed in Thailand I think Singapore The story seems to change as it goes along

Reports since last Sept have said testing has been carried out by the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok.

OK!

Since my first Post to this was BLOCKED! I will try to reword it.....

"Was not the original DNA Testing done in Singapore???"

Why and how did the Thai Police get credit and under what Authority were they even Authorized?

Does it not take 24 hrs for Lab's to complete each test of each DNA Sample for a correct comparison?

I do not know a any Country in the World where "B.S. doesn't Stink" Manure is a smelly substance regardless of where it came from....

Great! We have alleged former Police Men, Lawyers, Psychologists, Weapons Specialists, Forensic Experts, and Teachers to correct our Spelling and Grammar, all posting here. But finally we have our first Poopoo Expert, which I expect he will try to point out Bull-shit to us when he sees it. Cool! [/quote

I would actually say GB that it more than likely all those skill sets and more are available min this forum and belong to genuinely qualified people in there field. In fact I'm sure those skills are present.! I'm not sure who at this time is the PooPoo expert though ! Do you know maybe??

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nigeone

[boomerangutang]

Some more tidbits from yesterday's the Daily Mail newspaper. . . . . .

"He (Police Colonel Chiewpreechaon the witness stand ) admitted that he also did not know why the son of wealthy Koh Tao business owner, known as the ‘Headman’, who is among the potential suspects, had not been questioned and he did not know why."

"He later told the court that the potential suspect had in fact been questioned by ‘someone’, but he could not recall the name of the interviewing officer. Furthermore he admitted that the police did not have DNA collected from the son and could not say who did."

"When he admitted that police had failed to check CCTV footage from the local pier at the time the first boat left for the mainland to see who had boarded, because they ‘didn’t think anyone would have taken the boat’, it drew gasps from the court. When he was asked about a small boat that was seen leaving the island before dawn, about the time the bodies were discovered, he admitted he knew nothing about it and there had been no investigation."

Boomer's 2 satang worth: Where did they pick that cop to head the investigation, from the drop-out contingent from Police School? It reminds me that Thaksin is also a high ranking Thai police officer. I don't know who of the two besmirches the RTP's reputation more. Well, in his defense (the KT screw-up cop) at least he didn't say "I don't know" to every question. A few times he livened it up by saying, "we didn't think that was important, so we didn't investigate it."

[fritzzz25]

Still awaiting an answer to my question. seems to been ignored by the RTP supporters. If this was a family member. Would you be happy with this investigation?

If you choose to ignore this post again I will name you directly. Man up and make a divinative statement. Yes or no please! Please do not use beliefs linked to irrevalant beliefs.

The question is very simple!

If the victims were relatives I would be first shocked by gossip and speculation can be read here.

I think the biggest mistake the police was to have provided some information at the beginning of the case. They thus allowed the lounge detectives to trick their boredom by spreading day after day gross and improper assumptions.

I also think that DNA against-test will confirm the version of the police and that Scotland Yard also conducted verify at the bodies reception. For me that's why they broadly endorsed the investigation.

Unfortunately for relatives, the conspiracy will continue their cabal by questioning collecting on the victims' bodies. They will be fewer but still aggressive to avoid a too big ridicule.

Why does it matter? Why not look at what the actual victim's family have stated?

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

The families of Miller and Witheridge issued statements thanking police detectives for reviewing the case, and calling for the investigation to be allowed to take its course, The Guardian reported.

Miller's family said: "We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

JTJ - See photo http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/838898-koh-tao-trial-opens-for-2-accused-of-killing-british-tourists/page-204#entry9666005

[smedly]

Yes your right Smedly. But I wonder if they were asked the same questions now and the foreign office issued a statement on there behalf how the context would compare now after the first 2 trial blocks ? I know if I was a relative what I'd be having to say !!

While speculation isn't good but understandable some times and certainly in this case any root cause of most speculation is firmly at the feet of initially the PM and followed very soon after by the RTP in everything they said and did, or didn't do !

The PM will be getting much the same info as the press initially and what he is being told by his senior officers, he will always back his police force and chiefs until it starts to look like it could be somewhat embarrassing for him to do so and could cause him loss of face, at which point I believe he will take some corrective action as it is ultimately his responsibility, if I know the man at all I believe he will be slamming a few desks demanding answers and ripping shreds off all senior officers involved, I can't possibly see how he could be backing this investigation and may even want it stopped, do you honestly think he would be making the same public statement now as he did many months ago - I very much doubt it

[smedly]

Some more tidbits from yesterday's the Daily Mail newspaper. . . . . .

"He (Police Colonel Chiewpreechaon the witness stand ) admitted that he also did not know why the son of wealthy Koh Tao business owner, known as the ‘Headman’, who is among the potential suspects, had not been questioned and he did not know why."

"He later told the court that the potential suspect had in fact been questioned by ‘someone’, but he could not recall the name of the interviewing officer. Furthermore he admitted that the police did not have DNA collected from the son and could not say who did."

"When he admitted that police had failed to check CCTV footage from the local pier at the time the first boat left for the mainland to see who had boarded, because they ‘didn’t think anyone would have taken the boat’, it drew gasps from the court. When he was asked about a small boat that was seen leaving the island before dawn, about the time the bodies were discovered, he admitted he knew nothing about it and there had been no investigation."

Boomer's 2 satang worth: Where did they pick that cop to head the investigation, from the drop-out contingent from Police School? It reminds me that Thaksin is also a high ranking Thai police officer. I don't know who of the two besmirches the RTP's reputation more. Well, in his defense (the KT screw-up cop) at least he didn't say "I don't know" to every question. A few times he livened it up by saying, "we didn't think that was important, so we didn't investigate it."

I have my own thoughts on who was running this investigation and it is not a policeman, a clue might be the civilian who was seen walking all over and contaminating the crime scene and at one point was also a suspect

[thailandchilli]

I must congratulate the 2 men on trial for the brotherhood they have shown since being rounded up and turned into goat's.

They have never turned on each other or one try to blame the other for what has happened to them.

They have shown far from being boys they are proper men. Men of whom their families can be proud. Unlike several posters on here who's families would likely disown them if they realized what they were doing.

lets be very clear here, I am actually on the fence as to whether they were involved or not - if they were I do not believe they could have done it alone, but equally the police have made an absolute shambles of this investigation at every juncture, I cannot think of one thing that they have done or claim to have done that would stand up to any standard or scrutiny and convince me of guilt, in any western country this would never have a reached court, the case may or may not be rescued somewhat with retesting of DNA samples but by western standards it would have already been dismissed

It is a very sorry sad state of affairs especially for those connected to the victims, I have seen really sick stuff in my time but what happened on that beach early that September morning was very disturbing even for me

I am speaking for myself but I also think the majority of posters feel the same way and would just like to cut through the smoke and mirrors that the RTP is currently serving up

[GOLDBUGGY]

Miller had two phones, one his regular iPhone (the one allegedly taken by the men on trial) and a cheaper phone that he could actually use while in Thailand since the iPhone was blocked; that's the one found at the beach.

This has been known for a long time already.

First I've heard of a phone being found on the beach, its also not in any crime scene photos, can you provide a link to the "thats the one found on the beach" statement? Because you seem to know more than the RTP He failed to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller

I enjoy the civil debate going on between you two and don't want to butt in, but I think I know the reason for the confusion and thought I would pass it on.

From Media Reports, it is alleged that shortly after the 2 accused confessed (forced or otherwise) they directed the Police to a Friend who they said they gave David Millers Mobile Phone to, and to hold for them. Further to this alleged report, and when questioning this Friend, he said he destroyed the Mobile Phone (alleged smashed in a plastic bag) and threw it out behind his accommodations because it did not work. Which was later found by the Police.

Later on, after the 2 accused recanted their confessions, another Media Report alleged that when asked about David Miller's Mobile Phone, they claimed they found it on the beach. I remember this as I thought "What a Coincidences" to find David's Mobile Phone on the beach on the same night he was murdered, when David did not report it missing to any of his friends.

It is understandable that he could have lost late while walking with Hannah to the Rocks, as to get their from AC Bar they would have to almost walk right by that log they were sitting on, if they took the path and if they were still their, but both of the 2 accused claimed they never saw either of them that night.

So that is my take on it.

,

[IslandLover]

This was my initial reaction also, but consider this. All his friends' and family members' phone numbers were on his regular phone, and he might not have got around to copying them over. This could also explain why he did not just get a new sim for the iPhone.

Also lets remember that David was an intelligent young man who left the UK prepared for a considerable time away. First to Australia for a work placement for 6 weeks and then to Koh Tao for some fun before heading back to Uni in the UK. I'm pretty sure he would have sorted out his phone before he left the UK, either got his network provider to switch to roaming or got another phone for this purpose. Either way there would be absolutely no need to be carrying 2 phones around with him on a night out in Koh Tao.

I understand what and why your saying that but I usually go to Thailand and stay at least 3 months at a time and most nights would have both my phones with me. One my smart phone and another old one with Thai SIM card in. I do also have a Thai SIM card for my smart phone just to cover all options. I can switch to roaming fine if needed on my home simm but roaming is very very expensive where I'm from so not really a long term option although again a good option to,have in case!

Yes good points and its possible however I have my doubts coupled with the fact that he returned to his room with his mate Chris in the early hours only to leave again after 20 mins saying he's going out to buy some cigarettes. If that was his intention why bring both phones out with him again at 1am or whatever time it was. But stranger things do happen I guess like the report from the RTP that he went into a shop and bought sunglasses.

Still does not explain RTP in court not confirming if this was his phone, he must have known if it is or not. More coverups or more extreme incompetence of a blundered investigation

It has also been suggested by a private contact that David Miller's phone was found in the room he shared with the Ware brothers. So, where does all this leave the phone that was allegedly found smashed behind the B2's residence which the RTP claim one of the suspects gave to another Burmese room-mate? Now we are told in court testimony that a phone was found on the beach.

[Darkknight666]

Yes your right Smedly. But I wonder if they were asked the same questions now and the foreign office issued a statement on there behalf how the context would compare now after the first 2 trial blocks ? I know if I was a relative what I'd be having to say !!

While speculation isn't good but understandable some times and certainly in this case any root cause of most speculation is firmly at the feet of initially the PM and followed very soon after by the RTP in everything they said and did, or didn't do !

The PM will be getting much the same info as the press initially and what he is being told by his senior officers, he will always back his police force and chiefs until it starts to look like it could be somewhat embarrassing for him to do so and could cause him loss of face, at which point I believe he will take some corrective action as it is ultimately his responsibility, if I know the man at all I believe he will be slamming a few desks demanding answers and ripping shreds off all senior officers involved, I can't possibly see how he could be backing this investigation and may even want it stopped, do you honestly think he would be making the same public statement now as he did many months ago - I very much doubt it

I do hope you're right. I had some faith in the guy before those whole thing, which reminds me.

I was wrongly accrediting the "A Thai could never do this" quote to him for quite a while, I was pretty enraged by it actually, but he didn't say that some genius copper did... So my apologies there.

Anyway, the Gen. Really seemed like he wanted to tackle Thailands real issues when he came into power and I had a bit of hope he might actually clean the place up a bit. For now I'll wait to see what he says about this case next... And like I said, I do hope he takes an interest in getting true justice for David and Hannah.

[Nigeone]

Yes your right Smedly. But I wonder if they were asked the same questions now and the foreign office issued a statement on there behalf how the context would compare now after the first 2 trial blocks ? I know if I was a relative what I'd be having to say !!

While speculation isn't good but understandable some times and certainly in this case any root cause of most speculation is firmly at the feet of initially the PM and followed very soon after by the RTP in everything they said and did, or didn't do !

The PM will be getting much the same info as the press initially and what he is being told by his senior officers, he will always back his police force and chiefs until it starts to look like it could be somewhat embarrassing for him to do so and could cause him loss of face, at which point I believe he will take some corrective action as it is ultimately his responsibility, if I know the man at all I believe he will be slamming a few desks demanding answers and ripping shreds off all senior officers involved, I can't possibly see how he could be backing this investigation and may even want it stopped, do you honestly think he would be making the same public statement now as he did many months ago - I very much doubt it

Yes I'm inclined to agree with you and was only thinking of the chain of command and responsibility and loss of face etc over the weekend. While we know loss of face is a big issue in Thailand the PM would have some leeway as quite obviously he's involved in many things , rightly,or wrongly, and has appointed Chiefs of police to do there jobs and for the most part is going to leave them to it. Now there's media attention and pressure building from so many angles he has to be concerned and I'm sure he is. However his get out is going to be I employed these guys to look after this and they've failed and they in turn go to the next one in line and down the levels of authority the blame goes. So it could be argued that it wasn't really his fault and so on down the line and therefore face at different levels would be saved. Of course it would have to stop somewhere and it's sad that it would probably be a guy at the bottom rung with no real influence getting the blame. However moved to an inactive post doesn't really cut it does it ! Heads should roll regardless of the outcome. But will they? I'm not so sure

The one issue I have with the chain of command is who and why was the initially RTP guy in charge moved after only a few days. And before the usual suspect remind me about alleged transfers already being in the pipeline I don't and never will buy that excuse because it's not a big deal to delay a move and the continuity and solving of the crimes should have priority. I'm sure if this had happened in the UK the officer in charge would have been left as just that till,it was appropriate to make the change. You don't ever change personal in the early stages of something like this as the first few days are so vital in gathering information and striking while the irons still hot

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nigeone

[Darkknight666]

This question is for you, Balo. Since you seem to know for sure NS was in Bangkok. If his life is ruined and he is so depressed why is he doing nothing to prove his innocence? That's what I would do if I were him and I really had nothing to do with all this, I'd give interviews to all who asked, make my phone records public, find CCTV of me in BKK the night before or even the day before. I would submit to polygraphs, agree to take a truth syrum so long as my attorney is present... I would send the running man bid to FBI and ask them to compare my walk to the running mans walking style (it can be done)

Anything, I'm telling you ANYTHING I could do to clear my name from what was done to David and Hannah.. And yet, none of the people suspected are doing that.. Quite the opposite really.

Of course you don't have to answer it's no demand.. I'm just curious what you think about it?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Still awaiting an answer to my question. seems to been ignored by the RTP supporters. If this was a family member. Would you be happy with this investigation?

If you choose to ignore this post again I will name you directly. Man up and make a divinative statement. Yes or no please! Please do not use beliefs linked to irrevalant beliefs.

The question is very simple!

Why not look at what the actual victim's family have stated?

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

The families of Miller and Witheridge issued statements thanking police detectives for reviewing the case, and calling for the investigation to be allowed to take its course, The Guardian reported.

Miller's family said: "We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

Yes John, thanks for posting that for the 13th time. We've seen it. It was one member of one family who made that statement. It was 8 months ago. A lot's happened in 8 months. The statement was made based on lies the family was told, by people who were told lies in Thailand. Lies built upon lies.

Actually I am seeing two families make statements abive. Here are some statements from just weeks ago too ...

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice." [/size]

The victims' families have also previously said they have confidence in the case after British investigators reported back to them following a visit to Thailand late last year.[/size]

"This pain will remain a part of us for the rest of our lives. We have borne our thoughts in silence, as we have not wanted to influence any court proceedings, but simply want to see justice done fairly and openly. We ask the media to afford David and Hannah dignity in the reporting of this trial and also that we are given privacy and respect while we battle with our emotions during the difficult weeks ahead." - See more at: http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/accused-koh-tao-murder-case-want-independently-test-forensic-[/size]

Again not much sense in asking people to speculate on if this were there kids when the actually were somebody's kids and they have expressed their thoughts about the case as well as the idiotic, uniformed and hurtful speculation all for some online users to get their jollies Edited July 27, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[minikev]

Yes, the answer is very basic: if someone claims something, in testimony to court of law, they have the means to substantiate what they say and those means are open to scrutiny it makes them more credible than someone that says something on the Internet and only has his say so to substantiate it.

OMG My late father used to say I could try the patience of a saint! I think it now belongs to you. Oh I don't doubt they claimed it for one minute but they were only part of a chain and what they said they may believe but if other links in the chain are flawed it doesn't stand up. This is the last time I'm going to say this to you

As everyone else is laughing at you and I hate to see grown men cry! Up to NOW ! there is no evidence to link the B2 to this case. Please please for all the other people In here take a moment, maybe go and have a cup of tea and contemplate that statement. You'll feel better if you do.!

Don't flatter yourself, I'm cool as a cucumber.

If the chain of evidence is under question then the onus is on those making the claim to produce the evidence for it; and no, just saying that someone, somewhere got paid to tamper with it doesn't cut it.

Look at some of the very first pictures from the first day of people posting on this case and you will see the chain of evidence is already broken. As people that shouldn't have been on the crime scene were on the crime scene. People walking around a crime scene and moving things or even just sticking their footprints in the sand is already tampering with the evidence. The chain of evidence is not under question as you say as it is plain for all to see it was broken.

[smedly]

The PM will be getting much the same info as the press initially and what he is being told by his senior officers, he will always back his police force and chiefs until it starts to look like it could be somewhat embarrassing for him to do so and could cause him loss of face, at which point I believe he will take some corrective action as it is ultimately his responsibility, if I know the man at all I believe he will be slamming a few desks demanding answers and ripping shreds off all senior officers involved, I can't possibly see how he could be backing this investigation and may even want it stopped, do you honestly think he would be making the same public statement now as he did many months ago - I very much doubt it

Yes I'm inclined to agree with you and was only thinking of the chain of command and responsibility and loss of face etc over the weekend. While we know loss of face is a big issue in Thailand the PM would have some leeway as quite obviously he's involved in many things , rightly,or wrongly, and has appointed Chiefs of police to do there jobs and for the most part is going to leave them to it. Now there's media attention and pressure building from so many angles he has to be concerned and I'm sure he is. However his get out is going to be I employed these guys to look after this and they've failed and they in turn go to the next one in line and down the levels of authority the blame goes. So it could be argued that it wasn't really his fault and so on down the line and therefore face at different levels would be saved. Of course it would have to stop somewhere and it's sad that it would probably be a guy at the bottom rung with no real influence getting the blame. However moved to an inactive post doesn't really cut it does it ! Heads should roll regardless of the outcome. But will they? I'm not so sure

The one issue I have with the chain of command is who and why was the initially RTP guy in charge moved after only a few days. And before the usual suspect remind me about alleged transfers already being in the pipeline I don't and never will buy that excuse because it's not a big deal to delay a move and the continuity and solving of the crimes should have priority. I'm sure if this had happened in the UK the officer in charge would have been left as just that till,it was appropriate to make the change. You don't ever change personal in the early stages of something like this as the first few days are so vital in gathering information and striking while the irons still hot

Yes you are right my friend but remember that if you follow the chain of command - as the information gets fed up the ladder it becomes less and less in detail, the PM was likely being called by the Chief of police (pre trial) and the conversation would have been very brief indeed - "Is it being Handled" - "yes sir" - "are you confident we shall see a positive result" - "yes sir" - "ok then keep up the good work"...end

I'd love to hear how this conversation is going since last week

something like that I'd imagine

[boomerangutang]

The PM's imagined private tirade toward the top brass cops: Can't you guys get anything right? You're supposed to get these two little guys convicted!

In contrast, the PM's imagined press release on the topic, when he can no longer avoid the issue will likely be one of two responses: He might either erupt in anger/accusations and aspersion (to a reporter's question), or he may try to maintain the high road ('police are doing everything they can to seek justice'), even though Thai officialdom's 'high road' has their Train of State rolling go over a steep gully bridge built of chopsticks held together with chewing gum.

[AleG]

OMG My late father used to say I could try the patience of a saint! I think it now belongs to you. Oh I don't doubt they claimed it for one minute but they were only part of a chain and what they said they may believe but if other links in the chain are flawed it doesn't stand up. This is the last time I'm going to say this to you

As everyone else is laughing at you and I hate to see grown men cry! Up to NOW ! there is no evidence to link the B2 to this case. Please please for all the other people In here take a moment, maybe go and have a cup of tea and contemplate that statement. You'll feel better if you do.!

Don't flatter yourself, I'm cool as a cucumber.

If the chain of evidence is under question then the onus is on those making the claim to produce the evidence for it; and no, just saying that someone, somewhere got paid to tamper with it doesn't cut it.

Look at some of the very first pictures from the first day of people posting on this case and you will see the chain of evidence is already broken. As people that shouldn't have been on the crime scene were on the crime scene. People walking around a crime scene and moving things or even just sticking their footprints in the sand is already tampering with the evidence. The chain of evidence is not under question as you say as it is plain for all to see it was broken.

The main evidence against the accused is semen found inside the victim, no amount of people walking around the scene and moving things would have placed it there.

Proving their innocence is easy, prove the DNA taken from the victim doesn't match and they are free, anything else is a sideshow.

[Nigeone]

Still awaiting an answer to my question. seems to been ignored by the RTP supporters. If this was a family member. Would you be happy with this investigation?

If you choose to ignore this post again I will name you directly. Man up and make a divinative statement. Yes or no please! Please do not use beliefs linked to irrevalant beliefs.

The question is very simple!

Why not look at what the actual victim's family have stated?

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

The families of Miller and Witheridge issued statements thanking police detectives for reviewing the case, and calling for the investigation to be allowed to take its course, The Guardian reported.

Miller's family said: "We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

Yes John, thanks for posting that for the 13th time. We've seen it. It was one member of one family who made that statement. It was 8 months ago. A lot's happened in 8 months. The statement was made based on lies the family was told, by people who were told lies in Thailand. Lies built upon lies.

Actually I am seeing two families make statements abive. Here are some statements from just weeks ago too ...

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice." [/size]

The victims' families have also previously said they have confidence in the case after British investigators reported back to them following a visit to Thailand late last year.[/size]

"This pain will remain a part of us for the rest of our lives. We have borne our thoughts in silence, as we have not wanted to influence any court proceedings, but simply want to see justice done fairly and openly. We ask the media to afford David and Hannah dignity in the reporting of this trial and also that we are given privacy and respect while we battle with our emotions during the difficult weeks ahead." - See more at: http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/accused-koh-tao-murder-case-want-independently-test-forensic-[/size]

Again not much sense in asking people to speculate on if this were there kids when the actually were somebody's kids and they have expressed their thoughts about the case as well as the idiotic, uniformed and hurtful speculation all for some online users to get their jollies

Pot,kettle ,black comes to mind here. And as for the statements my heart goes out to the families and those emotive statements however I don't see anything in them that gives credit to what's gone on. In fact it's all optimism that justice will be done based on the hopes that all parties will act honestly and fairly. Lovely words but definatly no praise for what's gone on up to now. Just my opinion and observation mind.

[smedly]

The main evidence against the accused is semen found inside the victim, no amount of people walking around the scene and moving things would have placed it there.

Proving their innocence is easy, prove the DNA taken from the victim doesn't match and they are free, anything else is a sideshow.

well yes and no, I remember when I was a teenager camping at a rock concert, a young girl was gang raped by a crown of bikers and had her throat cut, 5 of them were convicted of rape only one was convicted of rape and murder.......just sayin

[Darkknight666]

The main evidence against the accused is semen found inside the victim, no amount of people walking around the scene and moving things would have placed it there.

Proving their innocence is easy, prove the DNA taken from the victim doesn't match and they are free, anything else is a sideshow.

well yes and no, I remember when I was a teenager camping at a rock concert, a young girl was gang raped by a crown of bikers and had her throat cut, 5 of them were convicted of rape only one was convicted of rape and murder.......just sayin

Great post. I'm not claiming to know what happened that night for sure... But I do think it's safe to say the killing wasn't done by the B2.

[Si Thea01]

This question is for you, Balo. Since you seem to know for sure NS was in Bangkok. If his life is ruined and he is so depressed why is he doing nothing to prove his innocence? That's what I would do if I were him and I really had nothing to do with all this, I'd give interviews to all who asked, make my phone records public, find CCTV of me in BKK the night before or even the day before. I would submit to polygraphs, agree to take a truth syrum so long as my attorney is present... I would send the running man bid to FBI and ask them to compare my walk to the running mans walking style (it can be done)

Anything, I'm telling you ANYTHING I could do to clear my name from what was done to David and Hannah.. And yet, none of the people suspected are doing that.. Quite the opposite really.

Of course you don't have to answer it's no demand.. I'm just curious what you think about it?

I understand that this is addressed to balo but if I may ask, has this person, and I take it you are referring to Nomsod, been charged with any offence relating to this matter. If he hasn't then he is deemed innocent and is not obliged to prove or provide anything to anyone, however, if he was charged, then what you are talking about is the task of investigating police in order to establish a person's involvement. And no, I am not sticking up for him, just telling you the way it works in the real world.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Some more tidbits from yesterday's the Daily Mail newspaper. . . . . .

"He (Police Colonel Chiewpreechaon the witness stand ) admitted that he also did not know why the son of wealthy Koh Tao business owner, known as the ‘Headman’, who is among the potential suspects, had not been questioned and he did not know why."

"He later told the court that the potential suspect had in fact been questioned by ‘someone’, but he could not recall the name of the interviewing officer. Furthermore he admitted that the police did not have DNA collected from the son and could not say who did."

"When he admitted that police had failed to check CCTV footage from the local pier at the time the first boat left for the mainland to see who had boarded, because they ‘didn’t think anyone would have taken the boat’, it drew gasps from the court. When he was asked about a small boat that was seen leaving the island before dawn, about the time the bodies were discovered, he admitted he knew nothing about it and there had been no investigation."

Boomer's 2 satang worth: Where did they pick that cop to head the investigation, from the drop-out contingent from Police School? It reminds me that Thaksin is also a high ranking Thai police officer. I don't know who of the two besmirches the RTP's reputation more. Well, in his defense (the KT screw-up cop) at least he didn't say "I don't know" to every question. A few times he livened it up by saying, "we didn't think that was important, so we didn't investigate it."

Well, it might have something to do with the fact that this Colonel was heading up the investigation on the island, getting DNA samples from the populous, checking foot prints, questioning witnesses, following up leads, and the person you are referring to was many miles away in Bangkok. So the logical thing to do would be to turn this over to the Bangkok Police, and in which he did. I am sure if they had a DNA Match they would have told him right away. But since they did not, and he was cleared why would he have a 13 Page DNA Report?

From Bangkok it was stated he was cleared of any wrong doing, and finish. But you now want them to present to the Media a DNA Report of an Innocent Man? Do the Police in your country post to the Newspapers all the suspects they questioned, took Finger Prints from, and DNA, then post their names and results to the Media in that Murder Case? Isn't that stretching things a little bit?