Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[boomerangutang]

The TAT has this case full under control

yea, like a fire in a polyethelene furniture factory.

[GOLDBUGGY]

There is mention that evidence from the UK contradicts evidence from the RTP and a lot of speculation as to what that is. Mostly focusing on contradictory DNA testing. As far as I know the UK authorities had no business testing for the accused DNA and would not have done so. The only DNA samples they would have been able to match would have been those of the 2 victims. I speculate that possibly either no foreign DNA was found in or on Hanna or if there was it belonged to David. This would indeed contradict the RTP version that she was raped by the accused and their sperm was found. That is not to say they didn't kill her but it would indeed cast doubt on the veracity of RTP evidence. Hopefully the truth will emerge.

Yeah! Agree! This is what I said to. Since there were not allowed to bring evidence home, and did not get a sample from the accused, then all they could have is what they found on the bodies.

So if there is contradiction, then it has to be something that has to do with that. Perhaps what you said. But we will find out soon, I suppose.

[Mot Dang]

Hang on, was it not only yesterday that it was reported in TVF that the samples had been lost. Or does "lost" translate to "misplaced"in Thai ?

Therefore 4 or 5 pages of meaningless comments on TVF yesterday as a result ?

[Happy Grumpy]

Andy Hall has some b@lls on him.

The General has already declared these two as guilty.

I hope Andy doesn't become the 5th victim of this case.

Looking at the past, Aussie auditor, Saudi diplomats.... all executed in the streets. nothing comes before big Thai face.

[Gweiloman]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

What can the defense offer as actual evidence? Without an alibi, very little.

However, shouldn't the onus of proof be on the prosecution? Imagine if I wanted a new phone and dumped my old one in your garden while you were asleep, alone. I then accuse you of breaking and entering into my house and stealing my phone. As evidence, I have very grainy cctv images which only shows someone of similar build to you walking along a street which leads to my houses (plus tens of others).

In essence, this is all the RTP have (plus possible a dubious DNA report).

[Fat Haggis]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

As opposed to the prosecutions evidence which was mainly the DNA which is now "finished" convenient ?

You have been very vocal and opinionated throughout this case and steadfast in your belief, what are your views about yesterday's revelations that the DNA cannot be re examined as its " finished/lost"

Would you agree or disagree that in most countries this in itself would be grounds for a mistrial and have the prosecutions case thrown out?

[Benmart]

this is a sad sad day for justice.

A system of justice, that is exposed as corrupt and ineffective, is reason to rejoice.

[thailandchilli]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan is actually a highly respected forensic scientist and is independant. She has worked on numerous cases and has, in the past, turned police cases upside down by showing evidence that the parties were infact innocent. A good step for the case, either way.

Issue remains, where is the British police report?

She lost her credibility with her repeated endorsement of the fake bomb detectors even after they had been proven to be a total fraud.

The British police report is not and cannot be part of this Thai judiclal procedure. Stop holding your breath.

Oh, the tired argument about the bomb detectors. Bomb detectors aren't her specialty. That's what military experts are supposed to do, and Thai military experts were completely wrong, even when the rest of the world knew the detectors were useless, expensive scams. Her specialty is crime forensics.

And to try and thwart Brit experts' findings on forensics - show you to be another apologist for Thai officialdom's many mistakes. Are you also shielding the Headman's family members who were, and still should be prime suspects?

The GT200 was supposed to be a forensic tool. Something that could detect trace evidence. It certainly could not do that.

Khunying Pornthip was supposed to be the best forensic expert in Thailand. Her continued support for the GT200 most certainly damaged her credibility.

If she's got such damaged credibility (in your view) why was she recently re appointed as head of Forensics. mmmm Who made that appointment, could it have been the Juntas cabinet, oh dear yes it was.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The Nation September 26, 2014 1:00 am

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Investigation-into-Koh-Tao-murders-seriously-flawe-30244163.html

No! Sorry My Friend! This is actually old news. Even the date on this headline was September 24, 2014.

But this found Condom can be puzzling. It shows it was used on Hannah, but for what, where, and why, are not known.

[evadgib]

The TAT has this case full under control

We can expect more of their elaborate and very expensive face-saving adverts to be aired on the BBC between news bulletins shortly.

[SupermarineS6B]

Can you believe this ? Only in La la land could you "Lose" the evidence in such a high profile murder case. I think it's about time the British government stepped up and kicked some sense into this pitiful charade....... These boys are looking at a death sentence fabricated by the "Keystone cops" Sad, and the world looks on........

[Mooner]

So the DNA is in Bkk. So nobody thought to request it prior to a double murder case?

Just turn up with a trolley with a hoe and a guitar in it. Oh and a testimony from the police with an attached photo of them all pointing at the B2.

[mmh8]

 

this is a sad sad day for justice.

A system of justice, that is exposed as corrupt and ineffective, is reason to rejoice.

 

kind of depends , thai justic system is frequently shown to be both corrupt and ineffective, its made no difference before , kind of same same move on to next circus. nothing is learnt nothing is improved upon, no system put in place with check sheets,

However the locals may find a new bureau being built at tax payers cost perhaps there will be a new bureaua of preventing corruption on Thai island involving murder rapes, or a new office for dealing with cheap migrant workers and making sure they all have a barcode so they can sort the ones out that are more likely stick to the original plan with police. Big names true, but big buildings as well. and where else would they put all those officer sthat get caught with the metaphoricals down. mr mao nit noi needs to be moved somewhere

[notmyself]

1. The crime scene is totally contaminated with hundreds turning up for a media circus on the beach.

[...]

Am I missing anything important?

Only that the tide had covered the scene beforehand anyway. The tide was coming in at the time and was already lapping around the young man's feet so a number of people grabbed what evidence they could lest the whole lot was lost to the sea. Easy to check if this is true by the tide timetables which cannot be fabricated.

Look at the waterline.....

[noahvail]

In all my years as a journalists I have never seen a rape murder case where an assailant uses a condom ?

I guess men from Myanmar play it safe

For the prior post, which didn't show the user, just Google "rapist used condom" and keep up with the times.

[MockingJay]

Reasonable doubt, DNA not given to defendant's team for independent testing, DNA samples "lost", accusations of being tortured into confessions without lawyer and witnesses being present, a crime scene destroyed by civilian bystanders and even formerly accused Thais being photographed while stepping over the crime scene marker (in form of a shoddy rope) into the crime scen, etc. - in a court in any western country, the defense team would tear this "case" apart in mid air, respectively there would be no case to start with. A western judge continuing with a case like this under the given circumstances would be out of a job.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

As opposed to the prosecutions evidence which was mainly the DNA which is now "finished" convenient ?

You have been very vocal and opinionated throughout this case and steadfast in your belief, what are your views about yesterday's revelations that the DNA cannot be re examined as its " finished/lost"

Would you agree or disagree that in most countries this in itself would be grounds for a mistrial and have the prosecutions case thrown out?

Well, this is not exactly how the law works. Even in the United States. Just read the last part of this link about Robin Lovitt. It will tell you what happened to him when Evidence was lost.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/preservation-of-evidence

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[sweatalot]

So many things are wrong with this case. It would be helpful if someone took the time to list each event pertaining to the case in chronological order. For instance, Is it true one of the first headlines pertaining to this case was that the police wish to arrest the headman's son, then the policeman leading the case was taken off it, a new guy took over and immediately proclaimed the headman's son innocent happily taking smiling pictures with him for the media? The new policeman on the case said forensic DNA evidence proved the headman's son was innocent. How could this be? Apparently there is no DNA testing available on Kho Tao so the evidence has to go to Bangkok where it takes about 48 hours to process. Then the (alleged) doctored CCTV puts the headman's son in Bangkok the day after the murders, but there are many who saw him on KT on day of murder. All very suspicious behavior.

1. The crime scene is totally contaminated with hundreds turning up for a media circus on the beach.

2. Headlines that the headman's son is wanted for the murder, the chief of police investigation is taken off the case then immediately the new chief on the case proclaims the headman's son innocent.

3. The police keep making contradictory statements to the media.

4. Headlines that a Scotsman flees the Island after allegedly being threatened and hounded by a "mafia" gang who threaten to pin the case on him and hang him in the woods.

5. A man claims he is allegedly beaten up and tortured by police trying to frame him for the murders.

6. Two Burmese young men make confessions then immediately allege they were beaten up and tortured to extract the confessions.

7. Confusion over ownership of mobile phones makes the evidence look weak.

8. The Prime Minister congratulates the police on a job well done!

9. The police claim the evidence is perfect.

10. The courts keep telling the police the evidence is not good enough to be presented in court and ask them to go back and improve their case.

11. Claims from Britain they have DNA evidence that contradicts the police DNA results.

12. The defense asks the court to re-examine the DNA but it has all gone missing or has been used up. Effectively, there is no DNA evidence for presentation to the court. Only the police word that it was "perfect"

13. The head of police threaten the defense team outside the court telling them they should be supporting the police not the accused!

Am I missing anything important?

no investigation of the headmans's family

whitewashing event of Nomsod with the National police head

[Johnsy]

It’s too late Thailand, the incompetence and injustice of this case is going live around the World and no matter what the outcome now it is plain for everyone to see that this is a dangerous country plagued with brutal crimes where tourists, guests and visitors are afforded little if any safety, security or justice.

[partington]

Those rejoicing that Porntip is a defense witness should be very cautious.

The generals gave her her job back, she was a vociferous supporter of the coup, and the political movement behind the coup, and she is connected to the current junta by a web of patronage. This doesn't require a big conspiracy theory. A single phone call saying " We are very glad we reappointed you to your old job Khun Pornthip. Are you enjoying it? Oh Good! I hope this Kho Tao case does not turn out to be embarrassing for Thailand, don't you? Good. I thought not."

It doesn't take much.

She has demonstrated already that she will deny the principles of basic science if given a pressing outside reason. I do not believe someone with a Ph.D in forensic science, requiring a thorough grounding in basic physics and chemistry, genuinely believes an empty box is a bomb detector, working on a principle as yet unknown to basic physics and chemistry. She is not a technologically ignorant general.

So this is not a matter of differing fields of expertise, but a matter of honesty, of trustworthiness.

Calling her as a defense witness may backfire hugely. The only statement I have read from her on this case was one casting doubt (completely incorrectly and inappropriately) on the whole concept of retesting the DNA, by implying the samples may not be retestable, and that retesting is rarely done.

In all forensic labs the first directive is to divide your sample and store portions in a permanent and stable manner, in reserve, in case retesting becomes necessary for whatever reason. Since the samples were sent to the Forensic Institute in Bangkok, they presumably know how to store DNA stably, in freezers, indefinitely. This is standard. There is no chance that the DNA will not be retestable if stored as every DNA lab in the world stores DNA.

Moreover the innocence project in the US tests DNA from evidence samples collected many decades ago, before DNA fingerprinting existed, and is often successful, even on incorrectly collected and stored samples. So there would be no valid scientific reason not to try a retest even on a degraded sample.

Why is Pornthip reported as casting doubt on the whole concept? Hopefully this is merely a result of the inaccurate reporting that makes all attention to anything said ouside the court room a waste of time...She must know as head of the Forensics institute that properly stored DNA lasts indefinitely, and she must know as Head, that her Institute stores DNA correctly.

[sweatalot]

The Nation September 26, 2014 1:00 am

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Investigation-into-Koh-Tao-murders-seriously-flawe-30244163.html

No! Sorry My Friend! This is actually old news. Even the date on this headline was September 24, 2014.

But this found Condom can be puzzling. It shows it was used on Hannah, but for what, where, and why, are not known.

prepared to be filled with some scapegoat's sperm?

[StealthEnergiser]

[stephenterry]

Bugger. And I waded through 31 pages of 'lost' DNA, when it wasn't lost after all. Pity it took so long for the correction. But, by the Police chief's comments, the RTP are going to fight this case right down the line. Okay, bring it on.

[minikev]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

Perhaps they are keeping what they know close to their chest. It would be pointless holding a trump card and declaring what it is early in the game.

[StealthEnergiser]

10 July 2015

Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

Police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.

“U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

[sweatalot]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

Perhaps they are keeping what they know close to their chest. It would be pointless holding a trump card and declaring what it is early in the game.

That might mean their lives are in danger

[sweatalot]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

Perhaps they are keeping what they know close to their chest. It would be pointless holding a trump card and declaring what it is early in the game.

That could mean their lives are in danger - hope they have competent body guards

[thailandchilli]

Pretty clear what was said by Lieutenant Colonel Somsak to me and everyone else including the media, perhaps the RTP Chief is the one who has misunderstood what his employees have clearly said:

Speaking to the BBC, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak, who led the original investigation, said some of the original DNA samples had been "used up".

A hair sample found in Miss Witheridge's hand was among samples that were lost, he said.

Lieutenant Colonel Somsak said all police could offer the court was documentation of the results.

"There's nothing left. It was used up when we tested the first time," he said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038

Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, the chief of police on both Koh Phangan and the neighbouring island of Koh Tao, where Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were murdered last September, said he would have to return to Koh Tao to check what evidence the police were holding.

Speaking to lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat outside the court room, Colonel Somsak said: “I am going back to check and will call you later to tell you what I have.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11728270/British-backpacker-murder-trial-in-Thailand-descends-into-confusion-over-DNA-evidence.html

"The DNA on the cigarettes is all finished," the head of police on the nearby island of Koh Pha Ngan told the defence team outside the courtroom on Koh Samui Thursday.

"The DNA samples taken from the bodies are not my responsibility. They are in Bangkok," Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod added.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/key-dna-evidence-finished/1972132.html