Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[HughJass]

They can re-test the dna samples all they want, they have had 10 months to have their way with it, unfortunately i feel it will always come up positive for the B2.

i don't post on here much but this case absolutely boils my piss.

will not the dna from sperm found inside Hannah be impossible to switch?

a forensic test would be able to distinguish a sperm sample from other bodily fluids from the same person

Semen glows under ultraviolet light and also changes color when exposed to specific chemicals.

If what i am saying is correct then a sample of semen would have to be obtained from the B2 in order to incriminate them if they are indeed not guilty

[Si Thea01]

thailandchilli

What was it you said in an earlier post "I'm just one who is prepared to wait and continue reading the many satirical posts dreamt up by the experts."

Sounds like you've now joined in the many satirical posts you apparently identified.

My little jibe was just a reflection on what he wrote, nothing more, nothing less, so yes a little satire. Being select in what you want to have a dig about? Take the whole post in context and you well know that I was referring to some of the ridiculous theories and scenarios being put forward as objective views and conclusions to this incident.

Yep your little jibe that I was selectively highlighting, nothing more, nothing less.

Which particular ridiculous theories are you referring to?

I'll start with the first example:

Many months ago I saw on CSILA a post stating that Hannah may have been shot. I read and found it way out there, no possibility for this. But then an expert from Belgium did some scientific studies on it. It got me thinking but after a few days I again dismissed it as ridiculous.

Fast forward to a few days ago when this came up again, this time from a credible newspaper The Times who said they had seen photos which they said showed possible shrapnel wounds on Hannah. Then we get reports that the defense is going to be saying that this is what happened and that they also have new "very significant evidence" from the UK autopsy reports and other sources.

So maybe this is not such a ridiculous theory after all. Not saying that its true but apparently if the reports are true then its a strong possibility.

I have other examples of what you call ridiculous theories or what a handful of other posters called conspiracy theories that are now being proved to be correct but I'll let you respond to this first.

I think the differences in our opinions from what I make out from your original post on here is that you are prepared to wait to see the results of the trial and apparently be happy that justice will be done based on those results?

I'm a million miles from there, the trial process and the evidence presented so far or lack of, is a major concern, how can a fair conviction be made when no origianl DNA samples from Hannah existto recheck. The samples were collected by the RTP, analysed and tested by the RTP and reports delivered by the RTP. Can you trust that? Sorry I cant.

Come on you're not that dumb, you know as well as I do what I am referring to because you have been following the case just as much as most on here. You have given a prime example, fine, but to think the Times is credible, please. Anyone can print anything, just does not mean it's true because its in print. If you want to see some ridiculous examples, do what I did, read the sixty odd pages, you will find many.

Yes, I am prepared to wait until the conclusion of the trail, it can go either way, we do not know but because one wants to wait, is that a problem. Or do I have to convict them or pronounce their innocence now just to keep everyone happy. There has been an overwhelming support for the two, and there are many who have made inane comments in respect to their guilt, so I am not one sided when criticising.

What evidence has been presented or the lack of it. I don't know, do you, or are you relying on the good old media again or what some are spouting on here? As far as the DNA is concerned, all you can theorise about is what has been reported. It might be factual, it might not but if all we have to rely on is what is reported, then one would have to be cautious in their summation because you just don't know.

I have said many times that the police, from the time they commenced their investigation, left a lot to be desired, so I will go one step further, given what has been reported and suggest that they were inept and may have acted criminally in the way they allowed the crime scene to be contaminated, failed to use proper procedures when collecting evidence and made spurious allegations as to who was and wasn't involved. There was absolutely no need for a running commentary from them and yes, it did them more harm than good and made them look worse than the keystone cops. But that doesn't all evidence captured has been tainted or that the Prosecution is in cahoots with others to convict the defendants because they must.

In so far as the trail, has any poster on TV attend the trail, is sufficiently fluent in Thai to understand the process and then reported back their findings so those with infinite wisdom can reach a conclusion, thus pronouncing their guilt or innocence? I thought this was the role of the judge. But then we have those on here who are also critical of him. If they are found guilty and, as many will say, justice has not been served, then what am I able to do, rectify it, or join the bandwagon and criticise all and sundry for, as many allege, tampering with or contaminating the evidence. setting up innocents or just having a show trail, where the decision, of the guilt or innocence, has been predetermined? That is not for me to decide but yes, like you, I can have an opinion be it right or wrong.

They have a defence team, including the criminal advocate, Andy Hall, plus the media, the latter who are cajoling everyone and it is up to them to provide a defence that can destroy the credibility of the police, witnesses, etc., thus showing that the prosecution has failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. If everything is as claimed, that the evidence has been lost, that they are scapegoats, that there is a conspiracy between police and the headman and his family, it goes on and on, then it is up to the defence to highlight these failures and criminal activities through cross examination, if they know how, thus convincing the judge of the defendants' innocence. If all are corrupt, as many are alleging and then multitude of sins allegedly committed by the investigating police and their alleged conspirators, then it should be an easy enough task, don't you think?.

In View of the Trauma it would likely cause Hannahs parents I doubt very much if the times published false information. In fact I bet there lawyers were all over before it went to print.

In fact I would imagine they have already been told this information and didn't wake up to read one sunday morning. Hence their non committal comments at the trial.

So it's true because it's in print. Do you believe everything that you read?. Oh you'd have to, it's on TVF so it must be true. As far as their lawyers being all over it is an assumption on your behalf. So you have never read a storey, that later proved to be false and the newspapers have been sued for defamation. I suppose their lawyers were all over it as well. They sure were, after the writs were issued. Did I say they printed false information, no, I just said that because it's in print, it does not mean it's true.

I am sure the parents are still traumatised and will be for a long time but if you say newspapers take into consideration people's feelings and the sensitivities surrounding incidents that they report on, then I'll have to disagree. They'll print and sensationalise incidents so they can sell newspapers, not to safeguard the feelings of others. You ought to apply the same thinking to some of the posters on here as to the trauma they would inflict on the parents should they read some of the insensitive remarks made.

You assume a lot, don't you?

[boomerangutang]

If the final word by the prosecution on the DNA evidence is that the samples are gone, and all that is left is the paper trail, I think a guilty verdict is going to be highly embarrassing for Thailand. Speaking personally, it would confirm my strong feeling that the Burmese kids are innocent. Incompetent though the RTP may be, it beggars belief that they would not ensure that their key evidence could stand up to, at least, cursory examination. The only reasonable explanation would be that the prosecution cannot afford reexamination of the DNA evidence/

Another explanation: RTP top brass have a father-knows-best attitude, similar to the PM's. They're used to (almost demand that) the Thai populace accept what they declare as fact. Even if Thais don't accept it, well then they know enough to stay quiet. Social media is a new concept for the RTP, and they've been broadsided by the chorus of people demanding a fair trial. The same people who have been making noise about how tattered the investigation has been. RTP are not used to that, and they don't like it - but that's the new paradigm. Even if they wanted to do a professional, objective investigation, it's too late now for this case. The water is under the bridge.

If nothing else comes from this painful investigation/trial, hopefully the RTP will learn how to investigate in a professional manner. ...and to not expect the general public to accept what they declare at face value. They've lost a truckload of credence, and it might take a long time to regain part of that trust.

[Thesticle]

There are two posters here on this topic that have for whatever reason been consistently combative, JD Asia and Thailand John. I've always thought it odd that their arguments mirrored the official line. It's their parogative and that's fine. But it is very strange. It wouldn't surprise me if they were Falang monkeys doing their masters bidding, no offense.

[sambum]

thailandchilli

What was it you said in an earlier post "I'm just one who is prepared to wait and continue reading the many satirical posts dreamt up by the experts."

Sounds like you've now joined in the many satirical posts you apparently identified.

My little jibe was just a reflection on what he wrote, nothing more, nothing less, so yes a little satire. Being select in what you want to have a dig about? Take the whole post in context and you well know that I was referring to some of the ridiculous theories and scenarios being put forward as objective views and conclusions to this incident.

Yep your little jibe that I was selectively highlighting, nothing more, nothing less.

Which particular ridiculous theories are you referring to?

I'll start with the first example:

Many months ago I saw on CSILA a post stating that Hannah may have been shot. I read and found it way out there, no possibility for this. But then an expert from Belgium did some scientific studies on it. It got me thinking but after a few days I again dismissed it as ridiculous.

Fast forward to a few days ago when this came up again, this time from a credible newspaper The Times who said they had seen photos which they said showed possible shrapnel wounds on Hannah. Then we get reports that the defense is going to be saying that this is what happened and that they also have new "very significant evidence" from the UK autopsy reports and other sources.

So maybe this is not such a ridiculous theory after all. Not saying that its true but apparently if the reports are true then its a strong possibility.

I have other examples of what you call ridiculous theories or what a handful of other posters called conspiracy theories that are now being proved to be correct but I'll let you respond to this first.

I think the differences in our opinions from what I make out from your original post on here is that you are prepared to wait to see the results of the trial and apparently be happy that justice will be done based on those results?

I'm a million miles from there, the trial process and the evidence presented so far or lack of, is a major concern, how can a fair conviction be made when no origianl DNA samples from Hannah existto recheck. The samples were collected by the RTP, analysed and tested by the RTP and reports delivered by the RTP. Can you trust that? Sorry I cant.

Come on you're not that dumb, you know as well as I do what I am referring to because you have been following the case just as much as most on here. You have given a prime example, fine, but to think the Times is credible, please. Anyone can print anything, just does not mean it's true because its in print. If you want to see some ridiculous examples, do what I did, read the sixty odd pages, you will find many.

Yes, I am prepared to wait until the conclusion of the trail, it can go either way, we do not know but because one wants to wait, is that a problem. Or do I have to convict them or pronounce their innocence now just to keep everyone happy. There has been an overwhelming support for the two, and there are many who have made inane comments in respect to their guilt, so I am not one sided when criticising.

What evidence has been presented or the lack of it. I don't know, do you, or are you relying on the good old media again or what some are spouting on here? As far as the DNA is concerned, all you can theorise about is what has been reported. It might be factual, it might not but if all we have to rely on is what is reported, then one would have to be cautious in their summation because you just don't know.

I have said many times that the police, from the time they commenced their investigation, left a lot to be desired, so I will go one step further, given what has been reported and suggest that they were inept and may have acted criminally in the way they allowed the crime scene to be contaminated, failed to use proper procedures when collecting evidence and made spurious allegations as to who was and wasn't involved. There was absolutely no need for a running commentary from them and yes, it did them more harm than good and made them look worse than the keystone cops. But that doesn't all evidence captured has been tainted or that the Prosecution is in cahoots with others to convict the defendants because they must.

In so far as the trail, has any poster on TV attend the trail, is sufficiently fluent in Thai to understand the process and then reported back their findings so those with infinite wisdom can reach a conclusion, thus pronouncing their guilt or innocence? I thought this was the role of the judge. But then we have those on here who are also critical of him. If they are found guilty and, as many will say, justice has not been served, then what am I able to do, rectify it, or join the bandwagon and criticise all and sundry for, as many allege, tampering with or contaminating the evidence. setting up innocents or just having a show trail, where the decision, of the guilt or innocence, has been predetermined? That is not for me to decide but yes, like you, I can have an opinion be it right or wrong.

They have a defence team, including the criminal advocate, Andy Hall, plus the media, the latter who are cajoling everyone and it is up to them to provide a defence that can destroy the credibility of the police, witnesses, etc., thus showing that the prosecution has failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. If everything is as claimed, that the evidence has been lost, that they are scapegoats, that there is a conspiracy between police and the headman and his family, it goes on and on, then it is up to the defence to highlight these failures and criminal activities through cross examination, if they know how, thus convincing the judge of the defendants' innocence. If all are corrupt, as many are alleging and then multitude of sins allegedly committed by the investigating police and their alleged conspirators, then it should be an easy enough task, don't you think?.

No I'm not dumb and yes the Times is a credible media outlet, but read my post again I did not say the report was true. We can all see that the lack of original DNA samples in the evidence provided. Surely you noticed that, its been in the media, its been reported by the RTP, by people who were at the trial that can speak Thai and English fluently, the judge also stated it was not possible to retest the DNA from Hannah, only the hoe, bag and one flip flop. So its not my theory on this as you state. It does not take anyone from here to be at the trial to get that information. Unless you call reading quotes by the judge theory or quotes by Andy Hall theory.

There is no DNA left, do you understand what that means, no DNA = no evidence aside from reports created by the RTP forensics. That in itself is enough to stop the trial now, but this is Thailand I know. No original DNA samples is impossible in my view. So I can only assume this is because they are lying, if they are lying then that means a coverup and so to the speculation and theories.

No problem at all for you to want to wait for the trial to finish. However for me when I see what I think is injustice going on then I don't roll over, go to sleep and wait for the outcome. Thankfully free speech allows us to express our opinion and sometimes mass opinion can affect change.

As I said, we are a million miles away in view so I'll leave it there for you as I have no wish to carry on with long posts like this when it gets nowhere, unless you actually reply to my questions before adding more for me to answer, now take a look at my post to you to see what I asked and lets see some examples of what you say are ridiculous theories and how you know they are ridiculous?

"Thankfully free speech allows us to express our opinion and sometimes mass opinion can affect change."

That sounds to me like a very solid endorsement of democracy. Unfortunately, we are in Thailand, and democracy is, at the moment, not flavour of the month, hence Article 44 etc.etc. Theoretically, am I right in thinking that if the judges in this case decide that the B2 are guilty, could the PM overide them? Just a thought!

[Johnniey]

to an overly posted above: So if the leased land on Koh Tao is worth hundreds of millions, then the land on Koh Samui must be worth billions. Why would those those people with just as many if not greater connections and with properties worth into the billions allow this guy to run the show on their island just to cover up for his little brat?

You know little sir. This headman is a very good friend of someone who is a very good friend of the unspeakable.

It's not the headman that they are covering up now..

[sambum]

If the final word by the prosecution on the DNA evidence is that the samples are gone, and all that is left is the paper trail, I think a guilty verdict is going to be highly embarrassing for Thailand. Speaking personally, it would confirm my strong feeling that the Burmese kids are innocent. Incompetent though the RTP may be, it beggars belief that they would not ensure that their key evidence could stand up to, at least, cursory examination. The only reasonable explanation would be that the prosecution cannot afford reexamination of the DNA evidence/

Another explanation: RTP top brass have a father-knows-best attitude, similar to the PM's. They're used to (almost demand that) the Thai populace accept what they declare as fact. Even if Thais don't accept it, well then they know enough to stay quiet. Social media is a new concept for the RTP, and they've been broadsided by the chorus of people demanding a fair trial. The same people who have been making noise about how tattered the investigation has been. RTP are not used to that, and they don't like it - but that's the new paradigm. Even if they wanted to do a professional, objective investigation, it's too late now for this case. The water is under the bridge.

If nothing else comes from this painful investigation/trial, hopefully the RTP will learn how to investigate in a professional manner. ...and to not expect the general public to accept what they declare at face value. They've lost a truckload of credence, and it might take a long time to regain part of that trust.

Agree with your post, but regarding your last paragraph, unfortunately I think it's a bit of a pipe dream. Even at this stage of this extremely well publicised case, the RTP aren't exactly trying to show that they are up for improvement! The latest comments re the DNA for example - "finished" "lost" "not lost" " a misunderstanding BY THE MEDIA" etc etc etc. This does not sound like statements being made in honesty - more like statements being made whose underlying tone says "We are the Police, and you must believe what we say"

[loonodingle]

In View of the Trauma it would likely cause Hannahs parents I doubt very much if the times published false information. In fact I bet there lawyers were all over before it went to print.

In fact I would imagine they have already been told this information and didn't wake up to read one sunday morning. Hence their non committal comments at the trial.

So it's true because it's in print. Do you believe everything that you read?. Oh you'd have to, it's on TVF so it must be true. As far as their lawyers being all over it is an assumption on your behalf. So you have never read a storey, that later proved to be false and the newspapers have been sued for defamation. I suppose their lawyers were all over it as well. They sure were, after the writs were issued. Did I say they printed false information, no, I just said that because it's in print, it does not mean it's true.

I am sure the parents are still traumatised and will be for a long time but if you say newspapers take into consideration people's feelings and the sensitivities surrounding incidents that they report on, then I'll have to disagree. They'll print and sensationalise incidents so they can sell newspapers, not to safeguard the feelings of others. You ought to apply the same thinking to some of the posters on here as to the trauma they would inflict on the parents should they read some of the insensitive remarks made.

You assume a lot, don't you?

Well certain Papers have certain standards. As it happens the Paper which published this does have a good record. Its a paper well respected by the higher echelon's of British society and one I expect David Cameron reads.

Its also probably been fed to them by someone within the loop of the defence.

Its a very sensitive case in the UK but anyway like you I have my opinions and I will surely remind you of your statements if u r still around later on in the trial.

As for assumptions,well yes, like you I make assumptions and why not?? In fact most of the thread is based on assumptions so nothing to be ashamed off is it.

The reference to their lawyers was in respect of the newspaper lawyers checking the story before it was published not the defence's lawyers.

You will also notice that the news paper standards have greatly increased since the News of the world and other revelations. But if you feel its a loada B011ocks then email the editor and tell him what you think

[onionluke]

Milan, Mid-October, 2014: Say what?

Okay, go and plant this phone in the bushes.

So this is the phone found in the bushes.

You have made a mistake, English is not easy to understand, is it.

Hey ! Do you want to divide up the resources of your land in a way that allows the elite to benefit above the workers and farmers ? Yes , let us continue sir.

[snowyy73]

this case seems to revolve around DNA.but what about the murder weapons did the police find them and if so what about finger prints and DNA from the handle of the hoe and looking at the terrible pictures it looks like David was struck with a knuckle duster with a sharp blade in the middle.

And Hannah looks to have been struck directly across the forehead.If she was alive at the time i am sure she would of turned her head away.there would of been a great deal of screaming before they died, who heard it.

There are so many unanswered questions

[noitom]

The parents of the decease should lay several civil law suits against the Thai government, local government, and Thai police as well as the clubs where they were last seen an the Thais allege to have engage with them.

[smedly]

I know one thing I am absolutely sure of - having lived in Thailand for some 10 years - I will never ever ever put one part of my body or spend 1 baht on any of these three Islands - if someone said I could live there for free for the next 20 years I'd tell them to stick it - it is unbelievable that people are sun bathing a few meters from where these two lovely innocent kids were bludgeoned to death

I searched the internet today for pictures and I was very sorry I did, how on earth family members and friends could hold it together after seeing some of the images is beyond me and I have seen some horrific things in my time, and all you people talking about guns and stupid stuff like that just leave it - a rock would be more likely - the only time I have ever seen such injuries even close to the images I saw were from a shotgun, this young beautiful girl had her head bludgeoned violently with only one aim - to make sure she was dead, evil evil evil is at work here.....disgusted and angry

[smedly]

and may I also add there is serious lack of CCTV images, we see lots of coverage with good resolution of the victims from numerous cameras but little else, where is the rest of the footage from these various 24hr a day cameras - oh maybe it got removed or deleted grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[whaleboneman]

The only important thing is the proof that the DNA found in Hannah's body belongs to the 2 Burmese. The other elements come only in supplement.

All the rest is barren drivel that does not honor its authors.

That would not prove they killed her though would it?

[loonodingle]

and may I also add there is serious lack of CCTV images, we see lots of coverage with good resolution of the victims from numerous cameras but little else, where is the rest of the footage from these various 24hr a day cameras - oh maybe it got removed or deleted grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Perhaps you shouldn't have looked. Now you can see why so many people are so passionate about seeing justice and the correct people sentenced. I have see a lot of things but this shook me more than pretty much anything I have ever seen.

As for the poor parents well I am surprised they haven't had a stroke. Even worse will be if it's disclosed that actually vital facts have been omitted from the case. As the family have been given assurances that the case is solid against the B2.

[sangthip]

and may I also add there is serious lack of CCTV images, we see lots of coverage with good resolution of the victims from numerous cameras but little else, where is the rest of the footage from these various 24hr a day cameras - oh maybe it got removed or deleted grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Perhaps you shouldn't have looked. Now you can see why so many people are so passionate about seeing justice and the correct people sentenced. I have see a lot of things but this shook me more than pretty much anything I have ever seen.

As for the poor parents well I am surprised they haven't had a stroke. Even worse will be if it's disclosed that actually vital facts have been omitted from the case. As the family have been given assurances that the case is solid against the B2.

Mr Miller's family spoke to Sky News on friday about the court proceedings and acknowledged the 'chit-chat' coming from the internet. Source : Heidi Anna's FB page.

Those assurances have started to fall apart already.

[smedly]

this case seems to revolve around DNA.but what about the murder weapons did the police find them and if so what about finger prints and DNA from the handle of the hoe and looking at the terrible pictures it looks like David was struck with a knuckle duster with a sharp blade in the middle.

And Hannah looks to have been struck directly across the forehead.If she was alive at the time i am sure she would of turned her head away.there would of been a great deal of screaming before they died, who heard it.

There are so many unanswered questions

tell you what (and remember what I am about to say) there were more than two people involved in this brutal crime, I would even go as far as saying that the B2 were there and were involved but they were not involved in the rape and murder they actually may have left the scene before that took place along with the falang coward who is afraid to speak up because of guilt, I'd say there were at least 6 people involved .....happy happy - the altercation in the bar is also involved - and there are a lot of people who are afraid to speak the truth

If I was foreign media right now I would offer a reward to someone to come forward and tell the truth about what they know with a guarantee of complete anonymity, maybe not going to be heard in court but would uncover and confirm some stuff that would increase focus

[JLCrab]

So the guy is powerful and stupid. OK

If some of you guys want to have a go at me, fine. I said months ago that these guys won't be able to pull this off if the B2 are truly non-complicit and a bunch of you had a go at me back then telling me how powerful this guy was and could make things appear or disappear at will.

I'll post the link again if you want.

I believe the B2 are non-complicit (to use your term), but there's also a good chance they'll get nailed by Thai officialdom. Due process and justice aren't top priorities in a case like this. More important is making sure the H's people don't get mentioned - and certainly don't get hauled in to court as defendants. Another important aspect is money, and lots of it. We may never know if big money or gifts have changed hands for favors, but such things are common in Thailand - particularly among rich and important people - protecting their immediate family members.

<snip>

If this were all taking place behind closed doors and out of the spotlight I might agree with you but there is just too much publicity on this case.

As for the ways of the Mafia on the Surat Thani islands, I know little but I do now how the Italian mafia works in the New York City area -- there are just too many families around that are bigger and with bigger interests and connections than the one on Koh Tao and they will not go down for the indiscretions of some stupid kid. At a certain point -- as I said on here months before -- they would just cut him and his family loose.

[dangman]

it ain't new york city there, buddy.

'mafia' is the same word but has a different meaning. even different to bangkok or other cities.

think of small population with large land ownership. generations of land ownership.

they own the islands. police are under them.

[JohnThailandJohn]

it ain't new york city there, buddy.

'mafia' is the same word but has a different meaning. even different to bangkok or other cities.

think of small population with large land ownership. generations of land ownership.

they own the islands. police are under them.

This of course is the reason police early on had no problem publicly accusing them and humiliating them on only unsubstantiated rumor.

[JLCrab]

it ain't new york city there, buddy.

'mafia' is the same word but has a different meaning. even different to bangkok or other cities.

think of small population with large land ownership. generations of land ownership.

they own the islands. police are under them.

Oh -- not NYC? I don't care -- at a certain point they will not endure all this just for the indiscretions of some stupid kid.

This is not a Thai-on-Thai 'friendly murder' but the murder of 2 young UK citizens with their bodies left practically on the KT family's front porch.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Media Report of Eye Witness to the Murder

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-backpacker-thailand-murders-what-happened-to-david-miller-and-hannah-witheridge/story-fnizu68q-1227079223913

[nadii]

What I don't understand out of everything is how Hannah ended up alone in the beach after midnight with her killers when she was travelling with 3-4 friends?

And CCTV footage showed she was surrounded by people. It makes no sense.

Unless she had her own room and they sneaked up on her, shot her there and brought her to the beach to rape and bludgeon her. However I remember them showing her hotel room and she was sharing with a friend as it was a twin room.

How did her friend not know she was missing?

It makes no sense.

If my friend was missing from the bedroom, I'd go out a find her. Hannah wasn't found until the morning.

Hannah was originally going to travel on her own, she might as well have done!

[GOLDBUGGY]

Media Report on Estimated Time of Deaths

http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-life/news/a596812/thai-murder-update-david-miller-drowned-after-being-severely-beaten-and-dragged-into-the-ocean.html

[StealthEnergiser]

This clip shows where a gun was found early in the investigation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ZD-Eft_Ps&index=18&list=PL3qGvK37wGDrM4D92qUYv8xhnjyI6iAM2

[catsanddogs]

What I don't understand out of everything is how Hannah ended up alone in the beach after midnight with her killers when she was travelling with 3-4 friends?

And CCTV footage showed she was surrounded by people. It makes no sense.

Unless she had her own room and they sneaked up on her, shot her there and brought her to the beach to rape and bludgeon her. However I remember them showing her hotel room and she was sharing with a friend as it was a twin room.

How did her friend not know she was missing?

It makes no sense.

If my friend was missing from the bedroom, I'd go out a find her. Hannah wasn't found until the morning.

Hannah was originally going to travel on her own, she might as well have done!

I remember the issue you have highlighted being debated on TV before. I agree with what you say. I would be very concerned if a friend of mine did not return in the early hours of the morning. Maybe the images of a mystery foreign woman caught on CCTV running the RTP say they have was one of Hannah's friends?

[catsanddogs]

Media Report on Estimated Time of Deaths

http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-life/news/a596812/thai-murder-update-david-miller-drowned-after-being-severely-beaten-and-dragged-into-the-ocean.html

I wouldn't put too much weight on that article because it is talking about the couple the RTP said were Hannah and David and were not them. The RTP only seemed to realise this after the rest of the world pointed it out to them though.

[smedly]

What I don't understand out of everything is how Hannah ended up alone in the beach after midnight with her killers when she was travelling with 3-4 friends?

And CCTV footage showed she was surrounded by people. It makes no sense.

Unless she had her own room and they sneaked up on her, shot her there and brought her to the beach to rape and bludgeon her. However I remember them showing her hotel room and she was sharing with a friend as it was a twin room.

How did her friend not know she was missing?

It makes no sense.

If my friend was missing from the bedroom, I'd go out a find her. Hannah wasn't found until the morning.

Hannah was originally going to travel on her own, she might as well have done!

<deleted> nobody shot anyone what on earth are you going on about, it seems pretty obvious that Hannah and David had developed a relationship during their holiday and were most likely spending some alone time on the beach but evidently they were not alone, stop dreaming up these stupid ideas about guns and shooting, someone started this nonsense earlier on this thread and it is absolute nonesense

[nadii]

What I don't understand out of everything is how Hannah ended up alone in the beach after midnight with her killers when she was travelling with 3-4 friends?

And CCTV footage showed she was surrounded by people. It makes no sense.

Unless she had her own room and they sneaked up on her, shot her there and brought her to the beach to rape and bludgeon her. However I remember them showing her hotel room and she was sharing with a friend as it was a twin room.

How did her friend not know she was missing?

It makes no sense.

If my friend was missing from the bedroom, I'd go out a find her. Hannah wasn't found until the morning.

Hannah was originally going to travel on her own, she might as well have done!

I remember the issue you have highlighted being debated on TV before. I agree with what you say. I would be very concerned if a friend of mine did not return in the early hours of the morning. Maybe the images of a mystery foreign woman caught on CCTV running the RTP say they have was one of Hannah's friends?

Running from what? None of Hannah's friends seem to have come forward and when they were questioned the day after, it didn't seem like they knew anything.

It just seems bizarre. If that was a friend running, Hannah would have been found sooner if she knew something was happening?

[bamukloy]

To Berybert:

sorry, given up in frustration on trying to cut and paste links in a reply box, as you cannot control where the pasted text gets inserted.

the following text from the link below talks about David being struck on the BACK of the head. Interesting reading throughout but the text in question is towards the end of the page.

With so many conflicting reports its getting harder each day to know what details to believe.

But if this report is indeed accurate, i stand by what i said, in that an initial blow to the back of the head with such a heavy instrument would have been fatal, and made it somewhat easier to subdue both of them, even by a couple of midgets.

Especially if they were sitting or laying down and relatively still and the attacker crept up from behind.

It might not mean anything, but for me it does answer how two tiny guys could overcome a 6ft plus guy.

Now, having said that, one has to consider that they admittedly stated they were out of their minds drunk...but still having the skill to swing

the hoe accuratelt, THEN carry out all the rest of it, THEN cover their tracks simewhat, THEN turn up for work the next day as if nothing happened.

But no matter how you look at it, every one theory comes with several unanswered questions.

https://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/update-710-thailand-2-british-tourists-been-murder-on-sairee-beach-koh-tao/

"They were however killed when they attempted to resist the robbery as the male victims back of the head was crushed believed by a hard object and the womans face was also smashed, also believed by a hard object."