Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[BoristheBlade]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

Great comment, but I fear that senior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

I think he is totally ware what is going on, and if he is not then Thailand is in big trouble.

I am certain he knows exactly who is responsible for these crimes and why they are protected from prosecution.

[StealthEnergiser]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

Great comment, but I fear that senior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

I think he is totally ware what is going on, and if he is not then Thailand is in big trouble.

I am certain he knows exactly who is responsible for these crimes and why they are protected from prosecution.

do you have time to shoot an email off to him ?

[stickylies]

The son of the headman is from a family worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. How often does he get laid? Does he need to rape?

Getting laid (ie. lust, passion) has nothing to do with rape. Rape is all about violence, domination, power and hatred.

[bamukloy]

He certainly is and his silence is what gives it away.

If you listen to his Television address on Friday nights you will see how he makes very short, discreet but ultimately unmistakable comments about certain issues.

He did this past Friday night about justice issues. It was at the very end of the program and ive no doubt what he was talking about.

[BoristheBlade]

I think he is totally ware what is going on, and if he is not then Thailand is in big trouble.

enior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

I am certain he knows exactly who is responsible for these crimes and why they are protected from prosecution.

do you have time to shoot an email off to him ?

When the Prime Minister of GB personally intervenes on a murder case in my opinion it says alot.

When the Chief of Police of Thailand personally chosen by General P becomes deeply involved with suspects in this case it says alot.

But what do I know.

[Si Thea01]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

Hi GB, I read and re-read the article that you posted a link to claiming there was an eye witness to the crime. For the life of me, I could not find any reference in that article about an eye witness. Perhaps I missed something. If I did, could you please re-post quoting the reference to the eye witness? As this would be crucial evidence to the case, I'm surprised said eye witness has not been identified or asked to provide testimony at the trial.

Do not know how reliable this is but an article in the BP on the 24th October 2014, indicates that two weeks after the murders, three people were arrested, the two who have since been charged and a friend, who was treated by Police as an eye witness. To what I do not know, as it does not stipulate but maybe this is what GB was referring to. It appears that his name I Maung. If I can locate it, why can't you? Maybe you should try a little harder, remember, seek and ye shall find.

[Rykbanlor]

Yes, this witnesses testimony will be about as solid as the B2 confessions given they were all 3 interrogated together behind the same locked doors.

[Si Thea01]

Yes, this witnesses testimony will be about as solid as the B2 confessions given they were all 3 interrogated together behind the same locked doors.

As I said, I have no idea of the reliability, what he witnessed or anything else to do with it, I was only pointing out that I was able to locate a reference where the other poster could not. I don't need a running commentary as to the for or against of the subject. Thanks

[StealthEnergiser]

Yes, this witnesses testimony will be about as solid as the B2 confessions given they were all 3 interrogated together behind the same locked doors.

Wednesday, October 15, 2014 |

Offering Little Insight, Koh Tao ‘Witnesses’ Released: Lawyer

CHIANG MAI, Thailand — Three Burmese witnesses in the double murder case on Thailand’s Koh Tao island have been released by authorities after giving testimony before a judge at a provincial court in Koh Samui on Tuesday.

Police investigators have been gathering evidence against Burmese suspects Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, who are accused of murdering two British tourists on the island on Sept. 15, but their lawyer on Wednesday said the witnesses’ testimony had not done anything to strengthen the case against the men.

“All three do not know about the crime scene,” said Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer on a team formed by the Burmese Embassy, migrants’ rights groups, and Burmese and Thai lawyers from the Lawyers Council of Thailand.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/offering-little-insight-koh-tao-witnesses-released-lawyer.html

[soalbundy]

Maybe a repeated question but have they done lie detector tests (supervised so that the tests are fair, independent and accurate) for the suspects?

That wouldn't work, Thai's are inherent liars, a lie just wouldn't show up

[Rykbanlor]

Yes, this witnesses testimony will be about as solid as the B2 confessions given they were all 3 interrogated together behind the same locked doors.

As I said, I have no idea of the reliability, what he witnessed or anything else to do with it, I was only pointing out that I was able to locate a reference where the other poster could not. I don't need a running commentary as to the for or against of the subject. Thanks

I wasn't pulling you up on it. I was just voicing an opinion on the witness.

[smedly]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

it is somewhat unfortunate here that the police generally get to decide the course of a criminal case based on everything that it shouldn't be based on and are not held to account, when and if it reaches court the judge just generally agrees and rubber stamps it, then we have these pesky foreigners who get themselves raped and brutally murdered on a beach and they are forced to back their actions accusations with evidence and actually make a case that will be scrutinised and they will be held to account - they just don't understand the concept, they think putting on that uniform somehow changes them into super humans with special abilities and grants them with some sort of super power over normal people - if I say it happened like this, it did - look I have my uniform on so it is true - that generally is the mentality unfortunately, hence why they don't understand why someone is asking them questions in court - holding them to account, for most of us living here we have all experienced it on the roads, I had a funny experience once to do with speeding and a radar gun when I asked him to show me the reading but I won't get into it here

[smedly]

"Why haven't locals who know what really happened come forward?" is often asked. A bit of Asian dime store philosophy came to mind:

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down" (from Japan, I believe)

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" (nothing on Thai news, could be charged with harming Thailand's image, couldn't they?)

Locals have to live there, or want to live (there) after all the attention goes away. Powerful have good long term memory regarding situations like this. Who could truth tellers turn to for protection?

The police lol

[abrahamzvi]

The average Thai does not care a damn about this case and many will not even have heard of it s existence. They just happily carry on eating Somtam and watching soap operas, nothing else really matters.

bangkokrick,

I want to know where and how did you meet my wife?

If you think that poorly of your wife, how can you stay married to her? It must be quite boring. Isn't it??? I am married to a Thai lady and she is as interested in this case as I am. Just to show you and bangkokrick that generalizing is mostly wrong...

[SOTIRIOS]

....'mystery'......

...if you ask a child 'Who broke the vase'......the answer will be 'I don't know'.....

...big mystery.....

[docshock13]

Media Report of Eye Witness to the Murder

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-backpacker-thailand-murders-what-happened-to-david-miller-and-hannah-witheridge/story-fnizu68q-1227079223913

Hi GB:

I hit the link again and read it again. Not a word about an eye witness in the article you quoted.

Not to say there weren't eye witnesses to the crime (as other posters have pointed out), I'm just saying that you made a claim about an eye witness but your link doesn't back it up. That's all.

[smedly]

everything falls or stands with 100 % proof of DNA.

If thai police and government are sure they are correct, why not let it retested ? dna of the sperm must clear everything...

why keep it unclear why create doubts

Not necessarily. Think about it. The son of the headman is from a family worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. How often does he get laid? Does he need to rape? He could have very easily forced one of his soldiers to rape Hannah, then killed her. So, what does the DNA prove then? I think the likelihood he is guilty of murder is extremely high. I think the chances he is guilty of rape are extremely low. So, the DNA may prove nothing. I think the chances these two Burmese are guilty is next to zero. When they were arrested, they were casually playing football. Three weeks after this brutal crime. Would guilty men stay on the island for weeks afterwards? Very few would. Not the behavior of murderers.

actually I would conclude something rather different, yes he shags any "Thai" girl he likes and is probably sick looking at them, a young blond attractive falang is something he cannot have by any means he is used too

[VINCENT2012]

Mystery of Koh Tao?????????

there is no mistery.....to me !

1)-police did not his job propelly since the begining.....in a litle island where everybody knows everybody, they know what happened since long time, but nobody will talk.

2)-as we know thailand for sure some mafia people is involved directly or inderectly

3)-corruption is totally normal in these farang places where they make millions of baths because of our stupid visit there.

4)-did they make coaction to these 2 burmese guys....well i bet yes they did !!!

5)to finish i will say something a gogo girl told me once that i never forgot :

i am thai, i am in thailand......i can do what i want , you'r a farang .....and nothing will happen to me!..

i live here since 10 years already and i have seen so many times thai people doing wrong things... but when you ask who did it , nobody knows...or will say who did it..... even if sometimes it is so evident who did it ..... police knows that too.

the samples of adn where the key of that case but they made a tom yam kung with it , so what do you expect now?

have a drink and wait for the sentence who is going to shock more than one person i guess.

i just hope innocent people wont pay for the bad ones

[bamukloy]

Media Report of Eye Witness to the Murder

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-backpacker-thailand-murders-what-happened-to-david-miller-and-hannah-witheridge/story-fnizu68q-1227079223913

Hi GB:

I hit the link again and read it again. Not a word about an eye witness in the article you quoted.

Not to say there weren't eye witnesses to the crime (as other posters have pointed out), I'm just saying that you made a claim about an eye witness but your link doesn't back it up. That's all.

I am surmising the witness in the article is the B2s friend, who (if what they say is accurate) seems to know enough for himself to be on charges also.

The only other witness i read about is a guy on a bike saying he saw people from afar but couldnt make them out;

and a woman who says she heard people singing western songs on guitar but could also not give an accurate description

[stickylies]

i am thai, i am in thailand......i can do what i want , you'r a farang .....and nothing will happen to me!..

maybe (maybéé) it's like that...

but always remember, in a u(sa)niverse not so far away, no so very long ago it was like this:

i am white, i am in my home-town......i can do what i want, you're black .....and nothing will happen to me!..

[elgordo38]

If there are any sceptics out there I suggest watching the film 'Z.'

Do you have any more info on this film?

[smedly]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

Great comment, but I fear that senior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

I think he is totally ware what is going on, and if he is not then Thailand is in big trouble.

I am certain he knows exactly who is responsible for these crimes and why they are protected from prosecution.

I totally disagree, he is getting near enough the same info fed to him as we are, he just hasn't seen the need to question it yet - why should he, he is likely being briefed by the chief of police why would he question him, I also believe that if (as we suspect) new reliable conflicting evidence on DNA tests from the UK is presented in court then he may start knocking a few heads and slamming a few tables

[catsanddogs]

On the Sean debate it is interesting that he was supposedly interviewed after his runner to Italy by a UK newspaper.

An interview that never got to see the light of day. Maybe because he said very little or maybe because the newspaper was

asked by the UK authorities not to print it yet. Who knows?

Also interesting is the emotional words Sean uses to describe his "friend" David yet just hours after David was brutally murdered

his "friend" Sean was hosting a pub crawl just a few hundred metres from where Davids body was found.

Whether Sean is "involved" or just a witness is anyones guess but it certainly appears that he has information that could help one side or the other.

Yes, I believe it was the Daily or Sunday Mail. So someone there has the information Sean provided. There has been more coverage in this paper in the UK than any other and they haven't minced their words.

[smedly]

....'mystery'......

...if you ask a child 'Who broke the vase'......the answer will be 'I don't know'.....

...big mystery.....

the dog did it honest - are you telling the truth "yes" 2x lies and counting

[Tom Parkinson]

If there are any sceptics out there I suggest watching the film 'Z.'

Do you have any more info on this film?

Check... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(1969_film)

Cheers, TP

[Jim walker]

Thailand Junta calls the lack of evidence mystery rest of the world calls it a cover up.

[diehard60]

Sounds like a cover up to me.

[saminoz]

it ain't new york city there, buddy.

'mafia' is the same word but has a different meaning. even different to bangkok or other cities.

think of small population with large land ownership. generations of land ownership.

they own the islands. police are under them.

This of course is the reason police early on had no problem publicly accusing them and humiliating them on only unsubstantiated rumor.

huh? You mean when the initial police team was following evidence - which led to announcing Mon and Nomsod as prime suspects? You can call that 'accusing them' if you want. Following evidence/leads and announcing suspects is what inspectors are supposed to do - it's part of their job description. However, JTJ, you mention 'humiliating them' in the same phrase. Well yes, perhaps the accused were humiliated by being named suspects. But look at what happened at the crime: a lot more than humiliation. Should we shed crocodile tears for men being 'humiliated' by being named as suspects? You can if you want. But not to worry, JTJ, your humiliated-for-3 days buddies were quickly declared innocent by the replacement head cop. So they're free forever - to do in the next uppity farang victims who don't submit to their sexual advances. Feel better now?

Interesting bit of incoherent deflection but the fact remains -- police has absolutely no issue what-so-ever naming them as suspects as they did many people early on before clearing them. So, it is lunacy to think they tiny island headsman's power trumps that of the Thai Police, investigators, forensic teams, witnesses, video, DNA, laboratories, UK observers ....

DELUSIONAL

Methinks that JTJ and cohorts are so heavily invested in Death Island that they're getting ever more desperate.

I seem to recall JTJ admitting to having some dive school connections? Maybe a bubble went astray, accounting for his/her brainless defense of all things RTP and the apparent blood lust for the necks of the B2?

In any event, given the history and stories of the Koh Tao mafia, I would suggest that any opinion offered by anyone having vested business interests there must be treated with a good deal of caution.

[stephenterry]

I think he is totally ware what is going on, and if he is not then Thailand is in big trouble.

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

I am certain he knows exactly who is responsible for these crimes and why they are protected from prosecution.

I totally disagree, he is getting near enough the same info fed to him as we are, he just hasn't seen the need to question it yet - why should he, he is likely being briefed by the chief of police why would he question him, I also believe that if (as we suspect) new reliable conflicting evidence on DNA tests from the UK is presented in court then he may start knocking a few heads and slamming a few tables

Or probably not. Why should he care about the B2? Nothing in the Thai media to concern him. The Uk evidence could be dismissed by the court unless it proves beyond reasonable doubt that Hannah was killed by a bullet. Anything less than that would be regarded as a mistake/contamination, even if the UK DNA showed a non-Asian presence. IMO, that is the reality.

[boomerangutang]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

Great comment, but I fear that senior members of the men in green are part of the gang....if you follow my drift....

I honestly don't think Prayuth is aware of police incompetence in this case i think he has been fed bs and believed it , it's time the embassy officials from both countries involved to call a meeting directly with him.

I agree halfway, in the sense he's somewhat out of the loop. I don't think Prayut is privy to all the inside manipulations which have been going on, but he should have some idea. Either that, or he's head-in-the-clouds out of touch with what his top brass buddies are doing. Early on in the botched investigation, he made public comments ("they're doing a perfect job" ....etc) - which he either regrets now, or will regret when things get even clearer for those who really want the public to not scrutinize what's been going on behind closed doors. For top brass, including the PM, there are several basic basic precepts which are higher priority than finding true justice in this case.

A list of priorities. . . . . . .

Money

Royalty

Job security

More money, investments, retirement security

Pleasing power-brokers, higher up in the food chain

Getting one's due from those lower down the food chain

Saving face and not contributing to anyone important losing face

Sangha (Buddhist hierchy)

Keeping mia noi (mistress) satisfied, so she can shop 'til she drops.

Keeping #1 wife from knowing/freaking out about mia noi

Golf

Attending funerals/weddings and other obligatory functions

....further down the list. . . . .Seeing that justice is done in a case where 2 backpackers died

....yet further down.... Making sure there are no scapegoats

... near bottom of list.... not wanting Burmese migrants to suffer unfairly