Ministry says 1.6m Thai farmers bearing Bt388 bn in debt

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Ministry says 1.6m farmers bearing Bt388 bn in debt
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- More than 1.6 million farmers are in debt to the tune of Bt388 billion, according to the Interior Ministry.

On average, each farmer has a debt burden of about Bt230,000.

The ministry has instructed provincial governors and relevant officials to help farmers negotiate their debts, and ask for the help of agencies such as the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives, the Agriculture Ministry, and the Justice Ministry.

The move follows Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha's order that a coordinating centre on farmers' debts under the Interior Ministry extend assistance to farmers.

The prolonged drought, which means no water for farmlands in the Chao Phraya River Basin, looks set to push farmers deeper into debt.

Meanwhile, the Office of the Permanent Secretary of the PM's Office reported that a total of 36,347 complaints had been filed through its channels between April and June.

The office said it had solved 16.27 per cent of these complaints.

According to the office, the National Police Office attracted the highest number of complaints for its alleged failure to prevent public nuisances, gambling dens, drug crime, and loan-sharking.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Ministry-says-1-6m-farmers-bearing-Bt388-bn-in-deb-30264629.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-17

[ezzra]

And this with and including the wholesale and rampant cheating that went on during Yingluck time

where farmers got top baht for their crops, running sometimes 3 crops a year...

so if it wasn't for the above, those farmers would be just about ready to hang themselves.... which all

come to show you that no matter what the government will do to help, Thai farmers will always be

what they are....

[ramrod711]

But, but, but Yingluck helped them, her scheme was wonderful, and she talks so softly.

[halloween]

So they have failed at the business of farming, time to try something else.

[jonclark]

The truth is probably that the majority of farmers will never be in a financially viable situation to actually repay any of this debt. So really what is the point of it. Perhaps the kindest and most sustainable thing to do it just file for bankruptcy and write their debts off.

It is a lot of money by Thailand's standards to write off, but of that 388 billion baht how much will be re-payed in the next 5 years? The banks could take their land, but most rice farmland has no access to potable water or electricity and has no direct direct road access, so is pretty low in monetary value.

Wipe the debts, take the hit and put in places measures to stop it happening again.

Rice farming in Thailand seems to be financial suicide, I am not a farmer, but there must be more profitable crops to grow.

[sammygood]

if you give out credits, it has to be spend

new tv, iphone, motosay, maybe a truck paid off over 30-50 years

priorities

if it is so "hard" , just go work in the factory like everybody else

no need to grow anything if you are unsuccesfull at what you are trying

[monkey4u]

So they have failed at the business of farming, time to try something else.

Some failed at being gangsters long before this failure

[jonclark]

if you give out credits, it has to be spend

new tv, iphone, motosay, maybe a truck paid off over 30-50 years

priorities

if it is so "hard" , just go work in the factory like everybody else

no need to grow anything if you are unsuccesfull at what you are trying

How many factories do you think would be willing to take a 50 year old farmer with no qualifications or experience on the minimum wage, over a 25 year old Cambodian or Burmese worker at 200 baht a day and perhaps more experience?

Lets remember that the demographics of most farmers are older generations, most of the young have turned their backs on farming for as you say factory work or city life.

Before they those farmers can even think about getting other jobs they will need retraining.

Sure I bet some have made some poor financial decisions, but most of them lack quality formal education from 30 odd years ago most probably, so they can be forgiven when some sweet-talking, sales man manages to get them to sign up for a truck they can neither afford nor need.

[Lupatria]

Thailand's maritime interests were estimated at Bt24 trillion,

More than 1.6 million farmers are in debt to the tune of Bt388 billion,

Plan to purchase three submarines from China for Bt36 billion.

Maybe the farmers raised the debt and stashed the money somewhere to buy 10 submarines from China…

[SOTIRIOS]

...so better factor in this humungous amount in the rice scheme/scam.....

...over 242,000 baht per farmer....

...they may still have to lose their farms.....

........another 10 Billion Dollars...gone where....and how......

[whatproblem]

Most of the farmers I know are in debt but nowhere near 230000 baht ,I am for giving them help but not the ones who buy trucks and new million baht tractors ,give the small ones that really need help

[PatOngo]

Give them 3 Chinese submarines.........that'll keep them happy.

[halloween]

Give them 3 Chinese submarines.........that'll keep them happy.

The thing is, if you buy 3 submarines, in a years time (with a little luck) you will have 3 submarines. OTOH if you pay substantially more to cancel the debts of farmers (when you come down to it, incompetent businessmen), in a years time what you will have is more farmers with debts.

My g/f and I have 3 banana trees, and she sells what we don't eat at the local market. When our annual rent comes due in a few months, should we be able to claim debt relief too?

Edited July 17, 2015 by halloween

[mikemac]

if you give out credits, it has to be spend

new tv, iphone, motosay, maybe a truck paid off over 30-50 years

priorities

if it is so "hard" , just go work in the factory like everybody else

no need to grow anything if you are unsuccesfull at what you are trying

How many factories do you think would be willing to take a 50 year old farmer with no qualifications or experience on the minimum wage, over a 25 year old Cambodian or Burmese worker at 200 baht a day and perhaps more experience?

Lets remember that the demographics of most farmers are older generations, most of the young have turned their backs on farming for as you say factory work or city life.

Before they those farmers can even think about getting other jobs they will need retraining.

Sure I bet some have made some poor financial decisions, but most of them lack quality formal education from 30 odd years ago most probably, so they can be forgiven when some sweet-talking, sales man manages to get them to sign up for a truck they can neither afford nor need.

Good comment jc.

My father-in-law is 86 years old, born into a Surin rice farming family, still growing rice and struggling along despite all the set-backs over the years.

Out of 4 sons and 3 daughters he has 1 son left involved in farming, the rest work in factories, workshops, for the local government etc. (one daughter married a hopeless Aussie)

The younger ones have a chance to get out, but after a certain age they cannot find alternative employment, it is all they will ever know.

Father-in-law and wife have no debts, own one motorcycle and have never owned a car or tractor. Until I came along they just did without which is why wife and I have helped them out with home improvements, renovations, concreting etc.

There must be a lot of farmers out there driving around in pickups that they cannot afford, if those debt figures are correct.

[elgordo38]

The truth is probably that the majority of farmers will never be in a financially viable situation to actually repay any of this debt. So really what is the point of it. Perhaps the kindest and most sustainable thing to do it just file for bankruptcy and write their debts off.

It is a lot of money by Thailand's standards to write off, but of that 388 billion baht how much will be re-payed in the next 5 years? The banks could take their land, but most rice farmland has no access to potable water or electricity and has no direct direct road access, so is pretty low in monetary value.

Wipe the debts, take the hit and put in places measures to stop it happening again.

Rice farming in Thailand seems to be financial suicide, I am not a farmer, but there must be more profitable crops to grow.

I am sure that there are lots of politicians and elite just waiting with piles of cash to buy them out. They already own about 90% of the land in Thailand. Any plot of land today is worth money for building more condo's resorts etc. My g/f bought a small piece of land a year ago to build a house on some day (After I turn to ashes) 130 sq. wah raw land for 200,000 bahts. I understand today a year later she could sell if for 250,000 bahts. I am sure like the American housing crisis some years back that banks are salivating at the fact that they can get this land for much less than market value.

Edited July 17, 2015 by elgordo38

[sammygood]

i feel a promotion comming up for TAT

poor farmers should be able to ... ADOPT A FARANG ... in the family

all money problems gone

what does the farang get: to pay for all what the family needs and gets in return, the boot up the arse when the money runs out

isn't that a super project ?

[djjamie]

And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!

Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?

[ddavidovsky]

Agriculture needs subsidising, as it is in Europe, unless you expect farmers to live like mediaeval serfs.

[mikemac]

i feel a promotion comming up for TAT

poor farmers should be able to ... ADOPT A FARANG ... in the family

all money problems gone

what does the farang get: to pay for all what the family needs and gets in return, the boot up the arse when the money runs out

isn't that a super project ?

For some reason when I read this amazing comment I could not help thinking of sour grapes and the old adage "A fool and his money are soon parted".

[halloween]

Agriculture needs subsidising, as it is in Europe, unless you expect farmers to live like mediaeval serfs.

What a consignment of geriatric shoemakers. There are farmers making a decent living everywhere, when they treat their business as a business. The biggest problem here is too many farmers working tiny plots of land - it doesn't matter how hard they work or how efficient they are, that amount of land is unable to produce enough to provide a decent living.

[ddavidovsky]

Agriculture needs subsidising, as it is in Europe, unless you expect farmers to live like mediaeval serfs.

What a consignment of geriatric shoemakers. There are farmers making a decent living everywhere, when they treat their business as a business. The biggest problem here is too many farmers working tiny plots of land - it doesn't matter how hard they work or how efficient they are, that amount of land is unable to produce enough to provide a decent living.

I'm sure farming could be more efficient in Thailand, but in Canada they farm huge plots of land and subsidies are still necessary - huge subsidies.

The problem here is that the population expects adequate supplies of food at cheap prices, and politicians being bound to give it them (excepting YL, who tried a remedy), it is the farmers, being poor, weak and currently disenfranchised, who get squeezed. That can't go on, because the farmers gotta farm.

[BuaBS]

Time to send those farmers' daughters to Pattaya , Patong or Bangkok.

[Dumbastheycome]

i feel a promotion comming up for TAT

poor farmers should be able to ... ADOPT A FARANG ... in the family

all money problems gone

what does the farang get: to pay for all what the family needs and gets in return, the boot up the arse when the money runs out

isn't that a super project ?

If you choose to buy into that.........buy !

[Dumbastheycome]

For the most part farming is viable in Thailand at the level of subsistance....as it has been historically. There are areas where rice farming was always marginal but pursued because at subsistance level food wasthefirst priority. With the introduction of subsisdies there has been little incentive to change.

Now with drought and low quality the call is for increased assistance in such areas. Bad call.

Now the focus is not on food but on cash in hand.

Lenders tempt that desire.

The addiction to gamble added to the dream of materialism that was never before possible is an easy sell to people.

Banks are corporate entities.

Land is a non manufacturable commodity.

Corporates want such commodities.

Never sell land!

Do Corporates want to produce food?

Or do Corporates want to own the life source of people?

If you own it......Never sell land !

[Lorn]

And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!

Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?

And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,

Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?

[Cake Monster]

People with a good business accumin in the developed world have " rainy day accounts " for their business,s. IE If things go bad for a little while, there is money to pay staff Etc., and also many smaller business owners actually take very little from the business, because staff, and regular outgoings on a monthly basis are more critical.

Thai,s in general, have to learn that a business, ( whatever it maybe ) is not a God given right to spend money they do not have, or have little chance of actually earning from the business.

The really scary thing, is that the financial institutions, have lent this amount of money to these people, who have little, or no business sense at all.

[halloween]

And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!

Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?

And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,

Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?

Let's bring a little relativity to your claims. The USA has a GDP around 50x that of Thailand for a population around 6x. They can afford subsidies, and waste.

Want to compare productivity of US farmers with Thai farmers?

Edited July 18, 2015 by halloween

[Lorn]

And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!

Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?

And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,

Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?

Let's bring a little relativity to your claims. The USA has a GDP around 50x that of Thailand for a population around 6x. They can afford subsidies, and waste.

Want to compare productivity of US farmers with Thai farmers?

Of course that is true. The question is whether the policy was implemented for good reason and the corruption came because this is Thailand so everything is corrupt, or whether the policy was implemented solely for the purposes of corrupt people getting their money on the loot. Imposssible to say perhaps? Just because USA can afford more, does that mean poorer countries should do nothing to help farmers?

[halloween]

And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!

Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?

And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,

Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?

Let's bring a little relativity to your claims. The USA has a GDP around 50x that of Thailand for a population around 6x. They can afford subsidies, and waste.

Want to compare productivity of US farmers with Thai farmers?

Of course that is true. The question is whether the policy was implemented for good reason and the corruption came because this is Thailand so everything is corrupt, or whether the policy was implemented solely for the purposes of corrupt people getting their money on the loot. Imposssible to say perhaps? Just because USA can afford more, does that mean poorer countries should do nothing to help farmers?

It's far from impossible to say. It was offered as a electoral bribe, a means to ensure they were elected, paid for with taxpayers money, and a false promise that the poorest rice farmers, a big slab of voters, would benefit.

The rice farmers were getting help, through a price guarantee, which allowed them to calculate their return in advance. It was replaced by the previous policy which had proven to be inefficient and riddled with corruption without any efforts to improve on that. In fact, there was still rice in storage from the earlier fiasco.

Any cost/benefit assessment during the later 3 years it ran would have shown it was a financial disaster, but the only steps they took was to lie about it.

[Dumbastheycome]

And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!

Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?

And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,

Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?

Let's bring a little relativity to your claims. The USA has a GDP around 50x that of Thailand for a population around 6x. They can afford subsidies, and waste.

Want to compare productivity of US farmers with Thai farmers?

Of course that is true. The question is whether the policy was implemented for good reason and the corruption came because this is Thailand so everything is corrupt, or whether the policy was implemented solely for the purposes of corrupt people getting their money on the loot. Imposssible to say perhaps? Just because USA can afford more, does that mean poorer countries should do nothing to help farmers?

Subsidies are a poison that are a sop that become politically used and abused.

If interested check out what happened in New Zealand when all farming subsidies were removed.

Any bankrupcies were due to those who were only using the subsidies on farms that were not viable without.

The majority became efficient producers who supply the world with an impressive percentage of product.

It also freed them from Government control as to marketing etc. Farming in New Zealand is now based on a business model rather than a lifestyle.

Yet it is still the basis of the economy.

When as as happened in the USA and Europe subsidization reaches the point where " land owners" ( as differentiated from actual farmers and agricultural workers) are paid to NOT grow but to leave land vacant is a poor joke.

Especially when chemical companies and associated science bots try to justify screwing up the genetic base of almost anything as a need to produce more food for a starving world!