Lite Beer Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Trump stirs new controversy by criticizing McCain war recordCATHERINE LUCEY, Associated PressSTEVE PEOPLES, Associated PressAMES, Iowa (AP) — Donald Trump blustered his way into more trouble as his feud with the Republican Party's 2008 presidential nominee turned decidedly nasty on Saturday, overshadowing fellow presidential candidates promoting their conservative credentials to evangelical Christians.The 10 White House hopefuls who converged on early-voting Iowa offered broad support for a crackdown on illegal immigration, a forceful approach to the Islamic State group that could include ground troops, and a devotion to Christian values.They were vying for support from the more than 2,000 religious conservatives crowded into an Iowa sports arena at the annual Family Leadership Summit to listen to the candidates less than seven months before the Iowa caucuses kick off the state-by-state nominating contests.Trump overshadowed a more substantive conversation by heaping fresh criticism on Arizona Sen. John McCain. It was the latest example of the reality television star's willingness to take on his own party, a practice that both excites his party's most passionate conservatives and worries Republican officials.Pressed on whether his recent criticism of McCain went too far, Trump went further."He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured," Trump said when the moderator described McCain as a war hero. McCain spent more than five years in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp after his plane was shot down.The comment drew some boos from the audience and an even more aggressive response from national Republican leaders who fear that Trump is damaging their party's brand.During a news conference after his appearance, Trump did not apologize but tried to clarify his remarks about McCain: "If a person is captured, they're a hero as far as I'm concerned. I don't like the job John McCain is doing in the Senate because he is not taking care of our veterans."Trump said he avoided service in the Vietnam War through student deferments and a medical deferment, then said he didn't serve because "I was not a big fan of the Vietnam war." He added he wasn't an anti-war protester.Earlier in the week, Trump had described McCain as "a dummy" who graduated at the bottom of his class at the U.S. Naval Academy. Trump's reaction came after McCain told an interviewer that the businessman had "fired up the crazies" with his inflammatory remarks about Mexican immigrants.A spokesman for McCain, Brian Rogers, declined to comment when asked about Trump's latest remarks.Several national polls show Trump leading the crowded Republican presidential field — with 15 candidates and counting — with former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker also in the top tier. But despite his strong showing in the polls — which should secure him a spot in the first Republican presidential debate next month — Trump is still considered a long shot for the nomination.Trump's comments about McCain drew rapid criticism from other 2016 Republican hopefuls.Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry said the comment makes Trump "unfit to be commander-in-chief." Bush tweeted: "Enough with the slanderous attacks. @SenJohnMcCain and all our veterans — particularly POWs have earned our respect and admiration."Trump's outsized role in the Republican presidential primary began when, during his announcement speech last month, he described Mexican immigrants as "bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.""It turns out I was right," Trump declared on Saturday, citing the recent murder of a California woman by an immigrant in the country illegally. "I am so proud of the fact that I got a dialogue started on illegal immigration."Trump was not alone in his hardline approach on illegal immigration.Once a leading advocate for an immigration overhaul that included an eventual pathway to citizenship, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio focused almost exclusively on the need to crack down on immigrants in the country illegally as he addressed the conference."I don't think we can make any progress on (broader immigration reform), until we bring illegal immigration under control," Rubio said. "We have to secure our borders."Rubio's position, like most of his party's 2016 contenders, moves further away from Republican leaders' previous calls to embrace comprehensive immigration reform heading into a presidential election where Hispanic voters are expected to play a critical role.On foreign policy, the candidates offered an aggressive approach to the Islamic State group, whose rise has become an increasing concern for American policy makers and a focus in the Republican presidential primary.The conversation came as evangelical voters eye their options in an extraordinarily crowded Republican presidential contest. There are already 15 high-profile contenders in the race, while two more are expected to join by the month's end.Iowa's evangelical voters traditionally hold great sway in the state caucuses on the Republican side. Christian conservatives backed the winners of the last two caucuses, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in 2008 and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum in 2012, but neither became their party's nominee. -- (c) Associated Press 2015-07-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Yeah...in America, anyone who puts on a uniform and gets hurt is a hero. They have redefined the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I love how they are shooting each other in the foot. Carry on, boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No doubt the teabagggers see McCain as a RiNO. Probably won't hurt trump with the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It always appears to be those who did their best to avoid active service who find it so easy to criticize those that actually served. We saw the same with Bush and John Kerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurath Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) It always appears to be those who did their best to avoid active service who find it so easy to criticize those that actually served. We saw the same with Bush and John Kerry. Kerry didn't serve? Gracious. [edit] apologies, I misread what you were saying Edited July 19, 2015 by Neurath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpokaneAl Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) It always appears to be those who did their best to avoid active service who find it so easy to criticize those that actually served. We saw the same with Bush and John Kerry. John Kerry served as an active duty US Navy Lt during the Vietnam war.Well, I guess I also misread your comments. Edited July 19, 2015 by SpokaneAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It always appears to be those who did their best to avoid active service who find it so easy to criticize those that actually served. We saw the same with Bush and John Kerry. Most of us stand 100% behind the men and women who serve. Not so much for the politicians who decide to send them, and the propagandists who try to polish the turd by creating "heroes" from people who did no more or less than the other brave souls who served in anonymity. If 3 guys run up a hill, all 3 of them are heroes, not just the one who gets killed, or the famous guy's son, or the guy who later runs for office. There were thousands of aviators who put themselves at the same risk as McCain. If you're going to hold McCain out as a hero, what about them? I'm not a fan of The Donald. But we agree here... McCain did his job- what he signed on for, just like thousands of others. Bad things happened to him as a result. He's no more or less a hero than the guys that came back after every sortie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loptr Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No doubt the teabagggers see McCain as a RiNO. Probably won't hurt trump with the base. McCain is, and has always been a neocon hawk... A cold-war era relic who is well past his sell-by date... https://anarchodutch.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/mccain-isis.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yeah...in America, anyone who puts on a uniform and gets hurt is a hero. They have redefined the word. And it's a sandwich. Don't feel bad. I'm sure you're a hero in your own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It always appears to be those who did their best to avoid active service who find it so easy to criticize those that actually served. We saw the same with Bush and John Kerry. John Kerry served as an active duty US Navy Lt during the Vietnam war.Well, I guess I also misread your comments. GW Bush was accused of not serving because he joined the Texas National Guard and served there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And just how are the vets being treated???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 GW Bush was accused of not serving because he joined the Texas National Guard and served there.. I think the bigger question had to do with "gaps" in his service record where they couldn't quite figure out where he was for months (or was it years)?) at a time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The GOP self-destruction continues. Surely Trump is a Democrat/Hillary plant? Genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpokaneAl Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 GW Bush was accused of not serving because he joined the Texas National Guard and served there.. I think the bigger question had to do with "gaps" in his service record where they couldn't quite figure out where he was for months (or was it years)?) at a time... Actually those questions were generated by CBS commentator Dan Rather who was later fired for stating those questions as fact when they turned out to be anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 McCain was disliked by his fellow prisoners for cooperating a little too whole heartedly with his captors, gaining special priviledges and early release. Quote from http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35132.htm " But some of McCain’s fellow prisoners, who were tortured and did not collaborate, have challenged his narrative, expressing their belief that McCain was not physically abused at all and that he was well treated. Others who were also in the prison camp dispute that claim. But by McCain’s own account he may have begun cooperating with the North Vietnamese within three days of his capture and was fully on board within two weeks, providing specific intelligence on his aircraft carrier, its aircraft, and the support vessels attached to it, information that was later featured in North Vietnamese radio broadcasts. One account that appeared on a wire service entitled “PW Songbird is Pilot Son of Admiral” reported that McCain may have gone beyond an acceptable level of collaboration in assisting the psychological warfare offensives aimed at American servicemen: “The broadcast was beamed to American servicemen in South Vietnam as a part of a propaganda series attempting to counter charges by U.S. Defense Secretary Melvin Laird that American prisoners are being mistreated in North Vietnam.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpokaneAl Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) McCain was disliked by his fellow prisoners for cooperating a little too whole heartedly with his captors, gaining special priviledges and early release. Quote from http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35132.htm " But some of McCain’s fellow prisoners, who were tortured and did not collaborate, have challenged his narrative, expressing their belief that McCain was not physically abused at all and that he was well treated. Others who were also in the prison camp dispute that claim. But by McCain’s own account he may have begun cooperating with the North Vietnamese within three days of his capture and was fully on board within two weeks, providing specific intelligence on his aircraft carrier, its aircraft, and the support vessels attached to it, information that was later featured in North Vietnamese radio broadcasts. One account that appeared on a wire service entitled “PW Songbird is Pilot Son of Admiral” reported that McCain may have gone beyond an acceptable level of collaboration in assisting the psychological warfare offensives aimed at American servicemen: “The broadcast was beamed to American servicemen in South Vietnam as a part of a propaganda series attempting to counter charges by U.S. Defense Secretary Melvin Laird that American prisoners are being mistreated in North Vietnam.” I see a lot of "may haves" and disagreements by other POWs in your discussion.I am honest enough with myself to know that if I ejected out of an aircraft and got injured and those injuries bother me to this day to know that I do not have a clue as to how I would have survived five years in a brutal POW camp. Edited July 19, 2015 by SpokaneAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 McCain was disliked by his fellow prisoners for cooperating a little too whole heartedly with his captors, gaining special priviledges and early release. Quote from http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35132.htm " But some of McCain’s fellow prisoners, who were tortured and did not collaborate, have challenged his narrative, expressing their belief that McCain was not physically abused at all and that he was well treated. Others who were also in the prison camp dispute that claim. But by McCain’s own account he may have begun cooperating with the North Vietnamese within three days of his capture and was fully on board within two weeks, providing specific intelligence on his aircraft carrier, its aircraft, and the support vessels attached to it, information that was later featured in North Vietnamese radio broadcasts. One account that appeared on a wire service entitled “PW Songbird is Pilot Son of Admiral” reported that McCain may have gone beyond an acceptable level of collaboration in assisting the psychological warfare offensives aimed at American servicemen: “The broadcast was beamed to American servicemen in South Vietnam as a part of a propaganda series attempting to counter charges by U.S. Defense Secretary Melvin Laird that American prisoners are being mistreated in North Vietnam.” I see a lot of "may haves" in your discussion. If you go into it a little deeper it gets worse and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) No doubt the teabagggers see McCain as a RiNO. Probably won't hurt trump with the base. McCain is, and has always been a neocon hawk... A cold-war era relic who is well past his sell-by date... https://anarchodutch.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/mccain-isis.jpg McCain isn't running fortunately, and that is why Trump is barking up the wrong tree. Immigration was a good issue to raise, but why create an issue of someone who only drives divisiveness amongst Republicans? Better just to relegate McCain to the old folks' home. His time is done and he has been slipping further into irrelevance. Making an issue out of McCain doesn't yield any additional support for Trump. Rookie political candidacy error. Edited July 19, 2015 by zaphod reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendejo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 One way to remain the center of attention is to be the feces flinger. Maybe he would have put on a dress and posed for a magazine cover if some other guy didn't beat him to it. McCain gets honorable standing with the teabaggers because it was his campaign that delivered Ms. Palin to the national stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No doubt the teabagggers see McCain as a RiNO. Probably won't hurt trump with the base. I think you nailed it. Trump seems to be playing to the base in a big way, and ignoring or even insulting those who disagree. I think he's also playing to the news media in an attempt (apparently successful so far) to dominate the news. There are a lot of people who agree with Trump but is it enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The problem with Trump (well, one of many) is that he's incredibly sensitive to any criticism. So he's going after McCain just because McCain said this: "Trump's reaction came after McCain told an interviewer that the businessman had "fired up the crazies" with his inflammatory remarks about Mexican immigrants." The thing is McCain is just as hawkish as Trump is and is happy to send US troops anywhere and everywhere. They're on the same team, for Christ's sake. Oh nevermind, Trump doesn't believe in teams. It's just him and no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurath Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No doubt the teabagggers see McCain as a RiNO. Probably won't hurt trump with the base. I think you nailed it. Trump seems to be playing to the base in a big way, and ignoring or even insulting those who disagree. I think he's also playing to the news media in an attempt (apparently successful so far) to dominate the news. There are a lot of people who agree with Trump but is it enough? It's enough for them. Donald spews out all the nasty thoughts that the base has but is still a little too frightened to say in full view of everyone else. When he speaks their collective Ids rejoice whilst their egos recoil. It's wonderful to watch. Like looking at a dog trying to steal food from a dinner table. They know they want it, but know it will look bad if they swallow it. I'll spare everyone the porno metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamnutsak Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Señor Trump was miraculously able to avoid military service via the draft through a series (1964 - 1972) of student and medical deferments, and not owing to a high draft lottery number as he is fond of claiming. Not sure why Señor Trump is going off on Sen. McCain? Maybe the Senator took him to task for his "Mexican" comments last month when Señor Trump announced his presidential bid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePai Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 "He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured," Quite agree - McCain is a pompous little figure who thinks everyone should love him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No doubt the teabagggers see McCain as a RiNO. Probably won't hurt trump with the base. McCain is, and has always been a neocon hawk... A cold-war era relic who is well past his sell-by date... https://anarchodutch.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/mccain-isis.jpg McCain isn't running fortunately, and that is why Trump is barking up the wrong tree. Immigration was a good issue to raise, but why create an issue of someone who only drives divisiveness amongst Republicans? Better just to relegate McCain to the old folks' home. His time is done and he has been slipping further into irrelevance. Making an issue out of McCain doesn't yield any additional support for Trump. Rookie political candidacy error. I think it helps Trump to distance himself from somebody who is a proven loser and who has lost credibility with a big part of the republican electorate. And the ones where McCain still has credibility won't care too much. The only ones who care are his present brethren like Boehmer at al, but at this stage of the election, who cares about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurath Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 "He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured," Quite agree - McCain is a pompous little figure who thinks everyone should love him Pretty much everyone thinks everyone should love them. Some people demand that everyone love and admire them - a narcissistic tendency best exemplified by Donald Trump. When someone says something indicating that the love and admiration isn't what it should be, such a person gets nasty. They need sycophants. Donald Trump. More a King Canute than a President. I love him, like I love watching failed rocket launches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) I love him, like I love watching failed rocket launches. God help me, I know it's evil, but I just can't turn away.... Edited July 19, 2015 by impulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurath Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I love him, like I love watching failed rocket launches. God help me, I know it's evil, but I just can't turn away.... Space junk, written off as useless and doomed to a fiery re-entry leaving nothing but a smudge in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Space junk, written off as useless and doomed to a fiery re-entry leaving nothing but a smudge in the sky. If you're referring to the current batch of politicians, a smudge in the sky is wishful thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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