New Thai(Elite)Visa ! 5 Year PE Visa !

[HooHaa]

I just don't understand the venom and negative comments regarding the Thai Elite 5 year.

If some members can afford it and it suited their circumstances then fine, leave them to it. It's their choice for f*!ks sake.

For the others that moan about how expensive it is etc.......then why bother? Its not for you so leave it at that.

at 100k per year i dont see how people can call it expensive. my average visa run runs me at least 20k, .thats 80k right there. not to mention other benefits like limousines and fast track through immigration.

[Jingthing]

It's expensive compared to 1900 baht per year for retirement extensions. So it's relative to your other options here if you have any.

[bim]

It's expensive compared to 1900 baht per year for retirement extensions. So it's relative to your other options here if you have any.

Well at 47 and retired its not only my only option but one I am more than willing to pay for the peice of mind in staying in a country I love.

[Sharp]

+1..bim.. I'm 46 retirement visa not an option..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What I can say is that the peace of mind that a PE visa provides is priceless.

Gerry, I don't mind you endlessly shilling for the PE program. After all, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

But, in everything you write, you seem to be able to blithely and repeatedly ignore the fact that a prior Thai government came very close to canceling the entire TE program. That's not rumor, that's a fact.

The government went that direction once before, and there's no guaranteeing that some future Tourism Minister and/or government won't revisit that same issue again at some future point, especially if the program continues to fail to meet its revenue targets.

If you want to pitch the program, that's fine. But at least be objective and accurate about it's history and status.

[bim]

What I can say is that the peace of mind that a PE visa provides is priceless.

Gerry, I don't mind you endlessly shilling for the PE program. After all, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

But, in everything you write, you seem to be able to blithely and repeatedly ignore the fact that a prior Thai government came very close to canceling the entire TE program. That's not rumor, that's a fact.

The government went that direction once before, and there's no guaranteeing that some future Tourism Minister and/or government won't revisit that same issue again at some future point, especially if the program continues to fail to meet its revenue targets.

If you want to pitch the program, that's fine. But at least be objective and accurate about it's history and status.

Im sure Gerry doesnt need me to defend him nor his opinion but the FACT is it that no visa was ever cancelled nor can it be. In addition one FACT thats missing from this topic is most western countries have this same type of Elite visa including the UK. Again since Thailand Elites inception no visa was ever cancalled and the well done to those like Gerry who "took the risk" in 2003 now enjoy a lifetime visa. Now if the PE visa is at risk at any point that would mean that everyone in Thailand on any type of visa would not be safe. The Elite programme regardless of its cost is bringing in high quality high spending people to this country. So I think my PE visa is a safer bet than any on ED or Retirement visas. Edited July 23, 2015 by bim

[gerry1011]

+1..bim.. I'm 46 retirement visa not an option..

I beat you... I am 48

Retired since... quite a while

And Thailand Elite member since I was 36

[Sharp]

Haha Ok I retired 2010 so with that said gerry I tip my hat to u my friend))

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Im sure Gerry doesnt need me to defend him nor his opinion but the FACT is it that no visa was ever cancelled nor can it be.

I never said here any TE visas were canceled (though whether they could be is a different and interesting question to ponder). I DID say the truth that a former Thai government apparently was planning at one point to kill off the entire TE program 5+ years back, before they ultimately decided to let it continue... But it made for some interesting headlines at the time -- ones that some folks here apparently would like to forget.

The Nation - Feb. 2009:

Government Freezes All Activities Of Thailand Elite Card

And this ThaiVisa news post in Jan. 2009 quoting the BKK Post and Reuters:

Breaking News:

Thailand Elite Card is abandoned

BANGKOK: -- The loss-making Thailand Elite Card, launched in 2003 to lure wealthy tourists and business people to Thailand, will be scrapped, a government spokesman said. Only 2,570 were members in 2008.

-- Reuters/Bangkok Post 2009-01-29

The Nation - Jan. 2009:

The Tourism Authority of Thailand and Thailand Privilege Card insisted yesterday that privileges for Thailand Elite cardholders remained unchanged, despite a recent mailing to members that benefits would be done away with completely.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/homeThailand-Elite-cardholders-reassured-30093457.html

Which led to the following thread here on TV re the supposed cancellation of the program:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/235788-thailand-elite-program-is-dying-special-entry-visa-suspended/

And also to the following letter being sent out by TE regarding what looks to have been a period of time when visa renewals apparently were suspended.

So, please tell me again how nothing bad possibly could ever happen???

Edited July 23, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sharp]

As far as i can see nobody has said 'nothing bad can ever possibly happen'.... It's been stated we think it's unlikely due to the fact' It's never been cancelled to this day despite all the above... They say proof is in the pudding and the pudding is??... That's our point sir.

[gerry1011]

As far as i can see nobody has said 'nothing bad can ever possibly happen'.... It's been stated we think it's unlikely due to the fact' It's never been cancelled to this day despite all the above... They say proof is in the pudding and the pudding is??... That's our point sir.

And in the meantime, while others worry, we enjoy our PE visa

[Soutpeel]

Im sure Gerry doesnt need me to defend him nor his opinion but the FACT is it that no visa was ever cancelled nor can it be.

I never said here any TE visas were canceled (though whether they could be is a different and interesting question to ponder). I DID say the truth that a former Thai government apparently was planning at one point to kill off the entire TE program 5+ years back, before they ultimately decided to let it continue... But it made for some interesting headlines at the time -- ones that some folks here apparently would like to forget.

The Nation - Feb. 2009:

Government Freezes All Activities Of Thailand Elite Card

And this ThaiVisa news post in Jan. 2009 quoting the BKK Post and Reuters:

Breaking News:

Thailand Elite Card is abandoned

BANGKOK: -- The loss-making Thailand Elite Card, launched in 2003 to lure wealthy tourists and business people to Thailand, will be scrapped, a government spokesman said. Only 2,570 were members in 2008.

-- Reuters/Bangkok Post 2009-01-29

The Nation - Jan. 2009:

The Tourism Authority of Thailand and Thailand Privilege Card insisted yesterday that privileges for Thailand Elite cardholders remained unchanged, despite a recent mailing to members that benefits would be done away with completely.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/homeThailand-Elite-cardholders-reassured-30093457.html

Which led to the following thread here on TV re the supposed cancellation of the program:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/235788-thailand-elite-program-is-dying-special-entry-visa-suspended/

And also to the following letter being sent out by TE regarding what looks to have been a period of time when visa renewals apparently were suspended.

PS2597.jpg

So, please tell me again how nothing bad possibly could ever happen???

Yes remember this very well, there was talk of scrapping the program ie not taking any new members, but also remember there was never any talk of cancelling the visas of existing members, even if they did scrap the program existing members would have been "grandfathered" as they did with the THB 3.0 million condo thing which also got you a visa

Nice try at muddying the waters but no cigar

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That depends on how you define "cancelling" visas....

From the January 2009 report in Tne Nation re the letter that went out to TE members at the time:

According members of TPC, they received a letter a few days ago stating that all privileges had been suspended. The letter also informed them that because their "elite" status was being removed, they would be required to adjust to the new circumstances as normal individuals. Moreover, those members who had benefited from special five-year visas were urged to make fresh visa applications as general visitors.

All TPC members were also told theysaid members would not be eligible for a refund of their membership fee.

If someone was a 20-year member at that point in time, I gather, they were basically telling them that they wouldn't be able to renew their 5 year TE visa the next time it came up for re-upping, and would have to apply under whatever normal visa category might apply to them, if any did.

If I had paid 2 or 3 million baht for a supposed 20-year membership and visa privileges, and suddenly was being told my membership was being canceled and my 5 year visa wouldn't be renewed, I'd think of that pretty much as being cancelled.

In the end, the government changed course and the program has lingered on ever since. That's not muddying the waters. That's just the history of what happened with the program, which anyone thinking of investing in the program today deserves to know.

Edited July 24, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hml367]

Regarding cancelling a visa, Chapter 4 of the Immigration ACt:

Section 36 : Where there is a proper reason , the Director General or the Immigration Commission shall have power to revoke permission previously authorized the alien to stay temporary in the Kingdom , whether or not the Director General , or the official deputized by the Director General , has granted such permission.

In the case the Director General has ordered permission to be revoked , the alien whose permission has been revoked may appeal such orders to the Immigration Commission. Order of the Immigration Commission will be final.

The appeal of the Director General’s order under paragraph 2 of this Section shall be submitted to the competent official within forty – eight hours from the time of acknowledgement of such order from the Director General and must be complied with from and fees as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

After cancellation of the temporary entry permit in reference to the provision of paragraph 1 of this Section , the alien must be notified by a written notice. In the case a written notice cannot be sent to the alien , yet the competent official has post a notice to the alien’s place of stay , as previously notified , and forty – eight hours , have passed , it is assumed that the alien has received said notice.

[ubonjoe]

Regarding cancelling a visa, Chapter 4 of the Immigration ACt:

Section 36 : Where there is a proper reason , the Director General or the Immigration Commission shall have power to revoke permission previously authorized the alien to stay temporary in the Kingdom , whether or not the Director General , or the official deputized by the Director General , has granted such permission.

In the case the Director General has ordered permission to be revoked , the alien whose permission has been revoked may appeal such orders to the Immigration Commission. Order of the Immigration Commission will be final.

The appeal of the Director General’s order under paragraph 2 of this Section shall be submitted to the competent official within forty – eight hours from the time of acknowledgement of such order from the Director General and must be complied with from and fees as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

After cancellation of the temporary entry permit in reference to the provision of paragraph 1 of this Section , the alien must be notified by a written notice. In the case a written notice cannot be sent to the alien , yet the competent official has post a notice to the alien’s place of stay , as previously notified , and forty – eight hours , have passed , it is assumed that the alien has received said notice.

Where does that say visa anywhere. It states "revoke permission previously authorized the alien to stay temporary in the Kingdom".

[Sharp]

Except where you have said 'The word Visa' where in this section does it say/state VISA?

[gerry1011]

Most of the retirees and "students" who switched to Thailand Elite did it to avoid the numerous hassles of such visas... And I fully understand them.

Finally they can stop to worry about constant changes in their visa rules.

It must be quite unpleasant to have to provide documents, statements, answer questions at immigration, worry, be questioned at the airport, worry on the way to the immigration counter, lose time, use these cramped visa runs minivans, worry, be rejected for some, be warned for others, worry...

Some can accommodate themselves with such inconveniences. But, for me, Thailand Elite is the answer. No worries at all.

It's funny how some on here seem to wish ill on others...

I know that this fact is disturbing for some on this forum, but... I spend my time, comfortably, in Thailand on Thailand Elite visas... since 12 years.

And I have many more years of happiness ahead.

My happiness does not seem to be shared by everyone though...

Edited July 24, 2015 by gerry1011

[hml367]

The context of the posts was permission to stay and wad being referred to ad "cancelling visa". Rather than being pedantic I left it at that.

[hml367]

Moderators, feel free to remove my post

[Robert24]

Immigration here in Chiang Rai has been a blessing.

Nice friendly treatment and the longest I have ever been there was about 30 minutes. (One anomaly- Once I had to go back again to pick up my extension because the person who has to OK everything had not yet arrived.)

So if one doesn't live a long way from an immigration office and the office is well run and friendly... aside from going through the airport faster and maybe a ride to the airport and back in some cities, I still don't get the benefit vs. the price.

that may be the case if you are over 50 or working or married or have children. If you are below 50, not working, not married, your options are fairly limited hence why people are attracted to the PE visa option.

[Robert24]

i am a elite card member under 50 and not married the 500.000 is the same amount i would spend on visa runs for 5 years (i dont do mini buses) basically i paid my visa runs upfront its not alot of money if you have it

The only issue I have with the TE program is the inherent unreliability and unpredictability of the Thai government and all its various parts, including by extention the TE program.

There's a well-advised saying for farangs in Thailand: never pay in advance for a product you've yet to receive. For me, that advice applies in the case of the TE program.

If TE has provided a visa for those who have purchased it in past years up to this point, that's great. Glad it worked out.

But, along the way, the TE program was headed toward being shut down at one point under one government, their offices were barely staffed and there was talk about people potentially having to file lawsuits to get refunds. In the end, it didn't come to that., as the government once again reversed its course.

But, it just goes to show the inherent unpredictability of government policies and programs here, with new governments and new ministers coming in every year or two, each with their own ideas of how things ought to be. And the most recent news reporting on TE in the BKK Post showed that it's still a financially troubled program that's not meeting its revenue targets.

So, if someone who's not eligible for a retirement or marriage extension of stay wants to plunk down 500,000 baht to in essence buy a promised 5-year visa, more power to them. But at least, go into it being an informed consumer and be aware of whom you're dealing with, and what's occurred with the program since its inception.

Yes if you come to Thailand to seek political stability you are in the wrong country regardless of what visa you have. But one of the great things is that there is the 5 year option @ 500k which something a bit more predictable. Both in terms of someone seeing themselves staying in Thailand for that long.

But one thing I've learnt as well over the many years in Asia is that you shouldn't overreact to political instability in Thailand. It's been that way for a long time, foreign investors are still here and are not deterred by that.

[HooHaa]

they cant cancel the visa once issued, they can close the program and stop issuing further visas.

i fail to see the issue

[Jingthing]

they cant cancel the visa once issued, they can close the program and stop issuing further visas.

i fail to see the issue

I generally agree.

If you have a 5 year visa in your passport, you should be very confident it will be good for 5 years.

Theoretically, however, governments can do anything they decide to do, even break the "promise" of a visa.

I gave a recent example from another country, Colombia.

People went to the trouble to get lifetime residency stamps in their passports and then the government decided to not honor them anymore and change them to 5 years only.

Is such a thing likely to happen in Thailand with 5 year visas becoming less than 5 or nothing? Of course not.

Of course a lifetime visa is a much bigger deal than a 5 year visa. 5 years isn't really that long. Adding to the remote chances such visas won't be fully honored for the full 5 years.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[gerry1011]

they cant cancel the visa once issued, they can close the program and stop issuing further visas.

i fail to see the issue

Actually, there is no issue.

The only issue here is that, on one side, some people try (very hard) to convince the Thailand Elite members that they made the wrong choice, and, at the same time, try to convince potential new members not to make the same (alleged) mistake... while, on the other side, every single Thailand Elite member says how happy he/she is with the program and its long term visa.

This visa or program "cancelation" is just a (rather strange) hopeless wish of the Thailand Elite haters... who anxiously wait, since over a decade, and with no result, that something bad happens to the ones who enrolled in the program. Just a simple jealousy story.

No issue at all

[Soutpeel]

they cant cancel the visa once issued, they can close the program and stop issuing further visas.

i fail to see the issue

A visa only gets you in the door, its the permission to stay thats the key bit, nothing to do with a visa and yes a "visa" can be cancelled, look what the UK did to " our man in Dubai" the fact is if one is not PR or citizen of a country ie a legal right of abode, the goverment can do anything they want as regards their "tourists"

[elviajero]

they cant cancel the visa once issued, they can close the program and stop issuing further visas.

i fail to see the issue

Of course they can but it's very unlikely the would even if the scheme eventually fails.

Cancelling the privileges, refusing extensions of stay or refusing new applications is the only likely outcome.

Edited July 24, 2015 by elviajero

[elviajero]

The only issue here is that, on one side, some people try (very hard) to convince the Thailand Elite members that they made the wrong choice, and, at the same time, try to convince potential new members not to make the same (alleged) mistake... while, on the other side, every single Thailand Elite member says how happy he/she is with the program and its long term visa.

This visa or program "cancelation" is just a (rather strange) hopeless wish of the Thailand Elite haters... who anxiously wait, since over a decade, and with no result, that something bad happens to the ones who enrolled in the program. Just a simple jealousy story.

No issue at all

I don't think anyone is trying to convince TE members that they made the wrong choice. You and a couple of other TE members in this thread have disclosed that you're under 50 and as such its a good choice if you can afford it.

I also don't think anyone hates the scheme. But it's not a bad idea that anyone considering the scheme knows the potential downs as well as the ups.

And I assure you no one is jealous. I pay next to nothing to stay here whereas TE members pay a minimum of 500,000. Personally I consider my self fortunate that I don't have pay this premium.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I agree entirely with what Elviajero said above... And I've never criticized anyone for actually deciding to use the TE visa route.

There were, in past times, a lot of posts on TE that revolved around the TE program being the brainchild of former PM Thaksin, and then the conversations here on ThaiVisa devolved into political debates between those who liked or didn't like the former PM. All of that is irrelevant to me, in terms of TE.

I look at it strictly as a visa option for farangs, and consider its price, what it has to offer, and how it compares to other available options in all the different ways. If I was under 50 and didn't have any other visa/stay options available, I might well consider the program. But at least I'd consider it with my eyes open, knowing it's a program that has a somewhat troubled past and is backed by a government not exactly renowned for its consistency or stability.

It's not just whether the offered 5-year visas would be maintained as promised, though that's one consideration.

It's also the issue of Thailand itself in recent years seeming to sail into increasingly stormy waters, and probably more ahead for various reasons. So, even if TE ended up keeping all its promises to members, in my mind, there's also the possibility that this country might change for the worse to such an extent in the future that I no longer want to stay. And I'd feel pretty bad if I ended up coming to that conclusion after having plunked down 500,000 or 2 million baht.

Thus the current year at a time, low-cost arrangement suits me fine. The Thai goverment isn't making any promises to me and won't allow me to buy land here. So I'm also not giving them a big chunk of my money, either.

Edited July 24, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[gerry1011]

I agree entirely with what Elviajero said above... And I've never criticized anyone for actually deciding to use the TE visa route.

There were, in past times, a lot of posts on TE that revolved around the TE program being the brainchild of former PM Thaksin, and then the conversations here on ThaiVisa devolved into political debates between those who liked or didn't like the former PM. All of that is irrelevant to me, in terms of TE.

I look at it strictly as a visa option for farangs, and consider its price, what it has to offer, and how it compares to other available options in all the different ways. If I was under 50 and didn't have any other visa/stay options available, I might well consider the program. But at least I'd consider it with my eyes open, knowing it's a program that has a somewhat troubled past and is backed by a government not exactly renowned for its consistency or stability.

It's not just whether the offered 5-year visas would be maintained as promised, though that's one consideration.

It's also the issue of Thailand itself in recent years seeming to sail into increasingly stormy waters, and probably more ahead for various reasons. So, even if TE ended up keeping all its promises to members, in my mind, there's also the possibility that this country might change for the worse to such an extent in the future that I no longer want to stay. And I'd feel pretty bad if I ended up coming to that conclusion after having plunked down 500,000 or 2 million baht.

Thus the current year at a time, low-cost arrangement suits me fine. The Thai goverment isn't making any promises to me and won't allow me to buy land here. So I'm also not giving them a big chunk of my money, either.

You are not wrong in what you say.

What I would say is that the program - and myself - already experienced two military coups and one Democrat government (even worse)... but it is still around. And I still enjoy the Thailand Elite visa.

So, it's ok to worry, but... personally, I believe that I am very fortunate to belong to the group that worries less, and bought the membership years ago (at half the present price).

And, by the way, you would be surprised by the number of members who are over (some well over) 50 years old. Thailand Elite is great for those who are younger, don't work, and have the funds, but no only those...

Edited July 24, 2015 by gerry1011

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post that was an attempt to to bring politics into the discussion has been removed. Politics are not discussed on this forum.