Debit Card (foreign) Cash Withdrawals Over the Counter @ Thai Banks

[Fookhaht]

I first did a search on TV, but the threads were old (2-3 years) and had been archived, or the latest one had been closed 4-5 months ago due to childish bickering.

HOWEVER, us non-childish-bickering types do need an update, as the situation is changing.

Up to now, I have been regularly withdrawing 50,000 baht (maximum), over the counter, using my foreign bank Visa debit card. No fee. This is at SCB.

Today, I went for my usual withdrawal, and I noticed a 180-baht fee added to my withdrawal amount (same as the ATM fee). I was told that "just yesterday" the new system started imposing the counter withdrawal fee for debit cards.

I asked how they have notified we, the customers, of this. Blank stare.

I felt I was entitled a 180-baht refund because there was no notice, and the withdrawal/fee was irreversible. If they did this, I would abide by their new rules in the future. So, I asked for a one-time refund. Again, blank stare (I'm speaking clearly understandable Thai, as the other nearby clerks indicated they understood and were trying to coach the deer in the headlights.)

Then, I asked if it was worth 180 baht for them to lose a customer of 11 years. Blank stare #3.

So, that is the update with SCB. I went over to Bangkok Bank who holds an account for me, and was told they also charge a 180-baht fee (sounds like collusion) for debit card withdrawals over the counter--same as their ATM fee, as well.

ERGO: I'm now looking for a bank that still has the no-fee counter withdrawal for foreign debit cards. I need to make quite a number of 50,000-baht withdrawals over the next few weeks to fund a new vehicle. I realize the noose is tightening, but perhaps if these fee-hungry banks lose customers to more foreigner-customer-friendly banks, they might wake up (hope springs eternal). Please don't try to turn me toward other methods--I've already been researching them for a year-plus. I already know about the fee-free Charles Scwab accounts, etc. Don't want that.

I want to continue my relationship with my home bank in my country, and continue the over-counter debit card withdrawal from a Thai bank, if possible.

Appreciate anyone who knows of such a Thai bank, and I hope this new thread topic has helped warn current customers who may be unaware of this sudden "stealth" fee.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Fookhaht

[noahvail]

May be slightly off-topic, but why are you limiting yourself to bt 50k per transfer? BKK Bank in my little provincial capital will do 100k, and I don't even have an account - all they require is a copy of my passport and sign a few forms. If you withdraw 100k, that effectively cuts that transaction fee in half.

[Fookhaht]

Noahvail, that's helpful. I haven't yet asked Bangkok Bank about their limit. (I wasn't limiting myself--it was imposed by SCB). I'll definitely look into it. The little Bangkok Bank branch I deal with can't handle debit card withdrawals, but I'll check at the bigger downtown branch.

[DogNo1]

If you're not open to other methods, there is no use of discussing them here. There are lengthy threads discussing every possible way to withdraw funds from a foreign bank in Thailand. I've posted my methods in them. Look them up if you're interested. Otherwise, good luck in finding that bank!

[wooloomooloo]

If you're not open to other methods, there is no use of discussing them here.

I won't mention my f/x account held in the UK then that I utilise to send funds to my Bangkok Bank account, particularly when the exchange rate is favourable [like now]. Send cash on a Monday and it's in my account Tuesday morning and all booked online within thirty seconds. I don't live in Thailand but retain a balance in my Thai bank account for various expenditures and our biannual visits. It's cheap and efficient with fees down to negligible and no charge for withdrawing at Bangkok Bank. No f/x or transaction fees from my UK bank either.

I could also bore you with my experience of the best UK credit card for foreign travel, but you've already deigned Charles Schwab, so I won't bother. Coincidentally, I have many friends that bemoan Western Union and various other expensive methods of transacting in LOS, but they don't appear too interested when I proffer alternative, cheaper, methods. They like expensive and that's entirely up to them.

My advice is to shop around and don't limit yourself.

Edited July 21, 2015 by wooloomooloo

[bkksteve123]

I did this 1 month ago at Bangkok Bank in Paragon, no fee. What a shame they have caught up with us.

However, I would never recommend the - debit card 50k charge - as a long-term solution to get funds to Thailand.

If you have a Thai bank account, I recommend using TransferWise.com to transfer money from abroad. As far as I know, they have a very fair (flat) fee structure. I used them when I was working in London (paid in £) and sent money back to my € account. Basically they (Transferwise) will give you the interbank FX rate (spot rate) + charge a 0.05% fee no matter the amount.

When you withdraw money from your debit card at SCB or Bangkok Bank, you are at the mercy of your Bank back in Farangland, and they typically have a "hidden fee" 1-4% i.e. via a rubbish exchange rate + an actual fee.

Unfortunately I have not been able to open a Thai bank account yet but I hope to do so soon.

Edited July 22, 2015 by bkksteve123

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Last I looked, the fee structure at Transferwise varies depending on the originating country/currency, and the U.S. appears to have a different fee structure with them that Europe. But, more to the point, anytime you send money internationally via some private business, there are ALWAYS fees... May be explicit fees, may be a lower exchange rate, may be a combination of both... But nobody moves your money internationally for free.

---------------------------------

But, to the OP, I want to say thanks for the OP post... This is the first I've heard of any Thai bank trying to add on the 180 baht fee to so-called counter withdrawals. You might try at a different branch, to see whether your experience was a one-off or some kind of new corporate policy. But since you mention getting the same 180 baht fee at SCB and BKK Bank, it's probably the Thai Bankers Assn. moving to close what has been an apparent loophole in their fees regimen. Just surprised it took them so long...

Although, I should add, SCB has always been among the worst places to do counter withdrawals, because at least in the past, they always offered a different and lower exchange rate for those vs what you'd get from an ATM withdrawal. In contrast, a fair number of the other major Thai banks would do counter withdrawals at their standard buying TT rate.

If SCB is still doing counter withdrawals at a lower exchange rate AND adding a 180 baht fee, that's a doubly bad deal. It would be interesting to know what kind of exchange rate you received, and how it compared to SCB's standard buying TT rate for that same day.

Edited July 22, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Fookhaht]

Last I looked, the fee structure at Transferwise varies depending on the originating country/currency, and the U.S. appears to have a different fee structure with them that Europe. But, more to the point, anytime you send money internationally via some private business, there are ALWAYS fees... May be explicit fees, may be a lower exchange rate, may be a combination of both... But nobody moves your money internationally for free.

---------------------------------

But, to the OP, I want to say thanks for the OP post... This is the first I've heard of any Thai bank trying to add on the 180 baht fee to so-called counter withdrawals. You might try at a different branch, to see whether your experience was a one-off or some kind of new corporate policy. But since you mention getting the same 180 baht fee at SCB and BKK Bank, it's probably the Thai Bankers Assn. moving to close what has been an apparent loophole in their fees regimen. Just surprised it took them so long...

Although, I should add, SCB has always been among the worst places to do counter withdrawals, because at least in the past, they always offered a different and lower exchange rate for those vs what you'd get from an ATM withdrawal. In contrast, a fair number of the other major Thai banks would do counter withdrawals at their standard buying TT rate.

If SCB is still doing counter withdrawals at a lower exchange rate AND adding a 180 baht fee, that's a doubly bad deal. It would be interesting to know what kind of exchange rate you received, and how it compared to SCB's standard buying TT rate for that same day.

In my last three debit card counter withdrawals from SCB, I've gotten pretty good exchange rates; within 1 baht of the standard rates rates for the day as given at http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

[bkksteve123]

Last I looked, the fee structure at Transferwise varies depending on the originating country/currency, and the U.S. appears to have a different fee structure with them that Europe. But, more to the point, anytime you send money internationally via some private business, there are ALWAYS fees... May be explicit fees, may be a lower exchange rate, may be a combination of both... But nobody moves your money internationally for free.

Absolutely agree.

Also, just realised I wrote 0.05% fee for Tranferwise, which certainly is NOT the case. I meant 0.5%. This may of course vary depending on location and the currencies being exchanged.

I can imagine that the fee is higher when converting to THB.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Fookhaht, I wouldn't look at XE's rates as the basis for comparison. You'd want to look at SCB's own daily exchange rate that they post on their website for the date of your transaction, and specifically, compare the rate you got with their posted buying TT rate.

BTW, a full 1 baht variation in exchange rates is not insignificant.

http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp

If you look at the bottom of their currency rates chart, you'll see they have special lower rates for credit card cash advances, which I assume they also use for debit card cash advances aka counter withdrawals...

Their posted buying TT rate right now is 34.47 baht to the U.S. $

But....

For Credit Card (Sale Slip) US$1 = 33.87
For Credit Card (Cash Advance) US$1 = 33.37

Edited July 22, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

In my last three debit card counter withdrawals from SCB, I've gotten pretty good exchange rates; within 1 baht of the standard rates rates for the day as given at http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

For a "debit" card counter withdrawal you get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate. If you are withdrawing USD, 1 baht less than standard Visa/Mastercard rates works out to a 3% foreign transaction fee....that fee is being charged by your home country "card-issuing" bank and not by SCB. Now if your card issuing bank does not charge a foreign transaction fee then that means SCB is providing/offering you a DCC exchange transaction (i.e., using a rate they set) which are typically around 3% lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate.

And like already mentioned, SCB offers a lower rate exchange rate for "credit card cash advances" on foreign credit cards as stated in the notes area of their exchange rate webpage.

And if I remember right a few months ago HQ SCB issued a policy letter stopping counter withdrawals for "debit" cards...probably because they were missing out on their high Bt180 ATM fee. But based on the OP's post maybe they have revised that policy to allow a counter withdrawal using a debit card but the Bt180 fee will be applied.

Sound like SCB is maintaining their position as the front leader in fees on foreign cards.

[Pib]

Let's take a look at what a Thai bank earns in card fees when doing a counter cash withdrawal with a foreign card. First, for this example, below is the Visa fee schedule for an international cash disbursement via ATM or manual (i.e., counter withdrawal). I expect Mastercard has a very similar fee schedule. In a cash disbursement the bank disbursing the funds via ATM or counter (i.e., the Thai bank in this case called the Acquirer bank) earns a fee "from your home country card-issuing bank" (called the Issuer bank). It's reverse of how a credit card purchase transaction works in that the card-issuing bank earns a fee. That Cash Disbursement Fee - Manual is $1.75 plus 0.33% of amount disbursed.

Important Note: Above fee is purely between the two banks and is not to be confused with the other Visa/Mastercard foreign transaction fee of approx 1.0% which many banks do pass along to the customer in the form of a foreign transaction fee in the 1 to 3% ballpark....1% to recover that fee and maybe add a couple more percent to get it to 3% for pure profit. Once again, we are just talking the exchange of funds between the bank disbursing the funds and then charging your card-issuing bank the allowed fee to accomplish that ATM or counter withdrawal disbursement.

OK, a person walks into the Thai bank with their foreign Visa debit/credit card and asks for Bt50,000. The fee the Thai bank earns is $1.75 (approx Bt60) in a flat fee plus 0.33% of Bt50K which is Bt165 which is a grand total of Bt225 in fee earned. Heck, beats the Bt180 core fee earned for one ATM transaction, but there is another $0.50 + 0.15% ATM fee the bank earns on top of their Bt180 ATM fee which I'll let you folks calculate out. .

Let's do another example for say a Bt30,000 counter withdrawal like you could get out of some ATMs like at TMB, Krungsri, & CIMB so we will have more of an apple to apple fee earned comparison between an ATM and counter transaction. You have the Bt60 flat fee plus 0.33% of Bt30K which is Bt99 which is a grand total of Bt159. Heck, pretty close to the Bt180 earned for one ATM transaction plus the $0.50 +0.15% ATM fee shown in the schedule above which is worth Bt62...add that Bt62 to the Bt180 and you get Bt242 earned in fees from a Bt30K ATM withdrawal.

My gosh, the Thai bank would earn Bt242 per Bt30K "ATM" withdrawal and only Bt159 for a Bt30K "counter" withdrawal....that's Bt83 loss in fees by doing a counter withdrawal. I expect Bt83 loss in fee could cause some banksters to have a stroke....their well-being is easily affected by fees. How do you prevent the poor banksters from having a fee-induced stroke? Well, you raise a fee or create a new fee.

Now if it is true that some banks are now starting to charge a Bt180 fee for counter withdrawals, then that new Bt180 fee added to say the second example gives the banksters Bt339 (approx $9.97) for a counter withdrawal...no bad at all the grinning bankster said. Please keep in mind this new fee if actually occurring is needed to keep the Thai banksters healthy. But hopefully, it's an isolated thing at some branches...time will tell as/if we see more posts on the subject.

Personally, I haven't experienced such a fee yet for counter withdrawals at the Bangkok Bank branch and Krungsri branch I use (did a counter withdrawal just a few days ago), but I'm using a no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee "credit" card that I prepay in order to avoid any interest charge.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Personally, I haven't experienced such a fee yet for counter withdrawals at the Bangkok Bank branch and Krungsri branch I use (did a counter withdrawal just a few days ago), but I'm using a no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee "credit" card that I prepay in order to avoid any interest charge.

It will be interesting to see if we get any other reports of "counter withdrawers" getting nicked for the 180 baht fee. Thus far, AFAIK, just one report in this thread only.

As Pib noted, he's using a credit card and not a debit card for his counter withdrawals. So that might make some difference. But still, he didn't get any fee on his recent counter withdrawal at Krungsri... So, we'll have to wait and see.

Sometimes these kinds of things end up being a one-off mistake of some sort. And other times, the initial report turns out to be the foretelling of the broader change that eventually hits everywhere.

If anyone else here has done debit card counter withdrawals lately, please do chime in as to whether any 180 baht fee was assessed.

[Fookhaht]

post error

Edited July 26, 2015 by Fookhaht

[Fookhaht]

Interestingly, last week I went to three Bangkok Bank branches and they were clueless as to an over-counter foreign debit card. The only definite response was "mai chai, mai dai" (rough translation--"no way") One branch assured me, emphatically, that the entire Bangkok Bank system would not do this.

On my fourth try, went to the downtown branch of our medium-sized Thai city. An older lady, without a word, took my documents (debit card, passport, Bangkok Bank passbook) and did the transfer. No hassle. No fee.

[Pib]

Interestingly, last week I went to three Bangkok Bank branches and they were clueless as to an over-counter foreign debit card. The only definite response was "mai chai, mai dai" (rough translation--"no way") One branch assured me, emphatically, that the entire Bangkok Bank system would not do this.

On my fourth try, went to the downtown branch of our medium-sized Thai city. An older lady, without a word, took my documents (debit card, passport, Bangkok Bank passbook) and did the transfer. No hassle. No fee.

At the one Bangkok Bank branch (a full service branch) I use to do my counter withdrawals they will not do a debit card....they just point you to their ATM...but they gladly do it for a credit card which I use (I have a no foreign transaction and no cash advance fee which I pay off immediately or prepay to avoid any interest). Another Bangkok Bank branch I tried (a small branch in a mall) will not do it for a debit or credit card...they refer you to a full service branch. It all depends on the branch as to if they have the capability to do a counter withdrawal and/or want to do it.

[parryhandy]

Still withdrawing money from Nationwide debit card which then gets put into my savings account at my Krung Thai Bank branch. As of 22nd July still no fees either end.

[Pib]

Did a counter withdrawal at a Krungsri branch today...no fee.

[smedly]

Bangkok Bank 3 Aug - Nationwide UK debit Card - no fee

I suspect this is a branch thing - up to them

Edited August 11, 2015 by smedly

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Did a counter withdrawal at a Krungsri branch today...no fee.

Pib, were you using your credit card, or debit card, for the counter withdrawal?

I'm asking, because the OP's report involved a debit card transaction, and you usually do your counter withdrawals with your no-fee credit cards.

[Pib]

Did a counter withdrawal at a Krungsri branch today...no fee.

Pib, were you using your credit card, or debit card, for the counter withdrawal?

I'm asking, because the OP's report involved a debit card transaction, and you usually do your counter withdrawals with your no-fee credit cards.

It was a credit card.

[octagon]

Instead of starting a new topic, maybe I should just add to this one with a related problem.

I tried withdrawing money with my foreign debit card at many ATMs at most of the major banks at Fortune. and tried different withdrawal amounts, but all I got was "Invalid Amount". What's this all about?

Another thing I noticed was that the conversion rate that came up on the screen varied tremendously at different banks and was more that a baht different from the posted rate inside the banks. I don't mind paying the 180 baht fee for the privilege of their generous service, but what gives with this annomoly? This is a completely different experience than when I easily withdrew cash with the same debit card last month, and might I add, getting a decent exchange rate.

Any workarounds on this problem?

Edited September 6, 2015 by octagon

[Pib]

Instead of starting a new topic, maybe I can just add to this one with a related problem.

I tried withdrawing money with my foreign debit card at many ATMs at most of the major banks at Fortune. and tried different withdrawal amounts, but all I got was "Invalid Amount". What's this all about?

Another thing I noticed was that the conversion rate that came up on the screen varied tremendously at different banks and was more that a baht different from the posted rate inside the banks. I don't mind paying the 180 baht fee for the privilege of their generous service, but what gives with this annomoly? This is a completely different experience than when I easily withdrew cash with the same debit card last month, and might I add, getting a decent exchange rate.

Any workarounds on this problem?

The max withdrawal per transaction varies from Thai bank to Thai bank....some are Bt30K...some are Bt25K and some are Bt20K. For example, Krungsri and TMB are Bt30K and Bangkok Bank Bt25K. And I think AEON ATMs are Bt20K. Now this is the limit per transaction set by that local bank, if your home country "card-issuing" bank has a lower limit on your card then it will reject.

Say for example the limited set by your "card-issuing" bank is 300 Euro...that's approx Bt12K at the current exchange rate. Say you were entering Bt20K into the ATM, well, you would still get a reject since your card-issuing bank has a Bt12K limit on your card.

And if the ATM is low on cash (which is not uncommon) the amount that can be dispensed will be lower but it will tell you what amount is available on the screen and what notes are available (ie., 1,000, 500, and/or 100 baht notes).

And since you are being offerred a conversion/exchange rate amount on the screen that means the ATM is offering you a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transaction which will be several percent lower (usually 3 to 4%) than the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate. Decline that DCC offer (or whatever warm and fuzzy name the ATM may give it like Bank Rate) and continue on to get the higher Visa/Mastercard rate. DCC rates from bank to bank will vary and are different/lower than the TT Buying Rate used for incoming wire transfers, traveler cheque rates, Notes rate, etc. DCC bad for the customer; DCC good for the bank (they make a nice little profit from the lower exchange rate). Just say no to DCC whether for an ATM withdrawal or purchase.

[oxo1947]

Really----------how much time did you spend arguing about the 180 baht, that you had no chance in the world of getting back even if you closed a 100 year account down....? I went 2 quid in the red at my UK bank and got a £40 (2,000 baht +) overdrawn fee last year.

Also my local bar put 10 baht on his beer last week, didn't even write me a letter to tell me about it----found out when I got the check bin.

If you are about to go to the trouble of closing your 11 year account down-----good luck with the next bank you go to,

I am sure it will be Soooo different...................

[octagon]

The only limits on the withdrawal amount I have is what I have in the account, so that's not an issue.

Like I said, I had no problem withdrawing at the ATM last month using the same card.

Is this DCC something new? Again, last month I had no issue with that.

Edited September 6, 2015 by octagon

[octagon]

Instead of starting a new topic, maybe I can just add to this one with a related problem.

I tried withdrawing money with my foreign debit card at many ATMs at most of the major banks at Fortune. and tried different withdrawal amounts, but all I got was "Invalid Amount". What's this all about?

Another thing I noticed was that the conversion rate that came up on the screen varied tremendously at different banks and was more that a baht different from the posted rate inside the banks. I don't mind paying the 180 baht fee for the privilege of their generous service, but what gives with this annomoly? This is a completely different experience than when I easily withdrew cash with the same debit card last month, and might I add, getting a decent exchange rate.

Any workarounds on this problem?

The max withdrawal per transaction varies from Thai bank to Thai bank....some are Bt30K...some are Bt25K and some are Bt20K. For example, Krungsri and TMB are Bt30K and Bangkok Bank Bt25K. And I think AEON ATMs are Bt20K. Now this is the limit per transaction set by that local bank, if your home country "card-issuing" bank has a lower limit on your card then it will reject.

Say for example the limited set by your "card-issuing" bank is 300 Euro...that's approx Bt12K at the current exchange rate. Say you were entering Bt20K into the ATM, well, you would still get a reject since your card-issuing bank has a Bt12K limit on your card.

And if the ATM is low on cash (which is not uncommon) the amount that can be dispensed will be lower but it will tell you what amount is available on the screen and what notes are available (ie., 1,000, 500, and/or 100 baht notes).

And since you are being offerred a conversion/exchange rate amount on the screen that means the ATM is offering you a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transaction which will be several percent lower (usually 3 to 4%) than the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate. Decline that DCC offer (or whatever warm and fuzzy name the ATM may give it like Bank Rate) and continue on to get the higher Visa/Mastercard rate. DCC rates from bank to bank will vary and are different/lower than the TT Buying Rate used for incoming wire transfers, traveler cheque rates, Notes rate, etc. DCC bad for the customer; DCC good for the bank (they make a nice little profit from the lower exchange rate). Just say no to DCC whether for an ATM withdrawal or purchase.

The only limits on the withdrawal amount I have is what I have in the account, so that's not an issue.

Like I said, I had no problem withdrawing at the ATM last month using the same card.

Is this DCC something new? Again, last month I had no issue with that.

[NoshowJones]

Last I looked, the fee structure at Transferwise varies depending on the originating country/currency, and the U.S. appears to have a different fee structure with them that Europe. But, more to the point, anytime you send money internationally via some private business, there are ALWAYS fees... May be explicit fees, may be a lower exchange rate, may be a combination of both... But nobody moves your money internationally for free.

---------------------------------

But, to the OP, I want to say thanks for the OP post... This is the first I've heard of any Thai bank trying to add on the 180 baht fee to so-called counter withdrawals. You might try at a different branch, to see whether your experience was a one-off or some kind of new corporate policy. But since you mention getting the same 180 baht fee at SCB and BKK Bank, it's probably the Thai Bankers Assn. moving to close what has been an apparent loophole in their fees regimen. Just surprised it took them so long...

Although, I should add, SCB has always been among the worst places to do counter withdrawals, because at least in the past, they always offered a different and lower exchange rate for those vs what you'd get from an ATM withdrawal. In contrast, a fair number of the other major Thai banks would do counter withdrawals at their standard buying TT rate.

If SCB is still doing counter withdrawals at a lower exchange rate AND adding a 180 baht fee, that's a doubly bad deal. It would be interesting to know what kind of exchange rate you received, and how it compared to SCB's standard buying TT rate for that same day.

I recently withdrew from my Bangkok Bank ATM with my UK bank debit card, the rate they gave me was app 2.50 Baht below the rate the bank was offering which was app 55.5 Baht.

Edited September 6, 2015 by possum1931

[Pib]

The only limits on the withdrawal amount I have is what I have in the account, so that's not an issue.

Like I said, I had no problem withdrawing at the ATM last month using the same card.

Is this DCC something new? Again, last month I had no issue with that.

DCC has been around for a long time...used by ATM and merchants all over the world....they like DCC...makes them more profit.

I expect your card "does" have a daily/per transaction limit.

Maybe your card-issuing bank has blocked your card for usage outside of the home country/region as many banks require advance notice of foreign travel to ensure your card continues to work...another thing common among many banks in all countries. It's a fraudulent transaction prevention measure.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I recently withdrew from my Bangkok Bank ATM with my UK bank debit card, the rate they gave me was app 2.50 Baht below the rate the bank was offering which was app 55.5 Baht.

That could be due to several different reasons, but probably the most likely is:

--your UK bank is taking their extra cut via a foreign currency conversion fee, since most UK banks do charge that for foreign transactions.

--

[Jip99]

I don't think a fee of 180 baht is unreasonable for this service.

There is a good argument for the 'over the counter' fee to be higher than the automated ATM withdrawals.