Box jellyfish sting kills woman in Koh Pha-ngan

[mortenaa]

Thaiwife claim that morning Thai News say that NO warning signs about box jellyfish was up until the poor woman got stung ... then signs came up ... TiT I guess, life has no value here awful way to go for her

RIP

Box jellyfish is a new phenomenon in Thailand. They were first observed a few years ago. There is just not enough local knowledge about these creatures yet.

[gemguy]

Hmmm...better to not go swimming at all.

Besides is the water clean??? ....Because I doubt it is with all the development along the beach while they never include sewage treatment facilities so personally I would not go swimming anyhow and or let my children go swimming in most of the popular beach areas all over Thailand.

Stick to the swimming pools....lol

Cheers

[Basil B]

So do they have emergency vinegar stations like Australia has?

I'm guessing NO!

Have you seen the price of malt vinegar here ?

I'm pretty sure it's not malt vinegar that they use, white vinegar is extremely cheap!

Funny the picture you supplied clearly shows malt and not white vinegar,still a terrible way to go.

RIP.

From what I am reading there is no problem in using malt instead of white...

Looking at prices of 6-8g sachets (malt) in the UK, we are looking at something that could be retailed at 5B a sachet, I was wondering if any of the companies who do the catering sachets could be persuaded to do some white vinegar ones (or diluted acetic acid) for first aid maybe with some antiseptic added...

And could 7/11 and Family Mart in coastal resorts be persuaded to stock them?

[shocky2004]

That girl was a friend of mine. I've met her in Bangkok in 2010 when she was girlfriend of my best friend. She was one of the most genuinely kind person i have ever come across. Everytime i felt down she was always there for me to help and give me advices. I feel very bad for her best friend that went with her on that trip and was with her in the ambulance when she died in her arms. This is a terrible tragedy... words can't explain the sadness i have right now. She contacted me in April for Songkran since she was there for a trip and wanted to see me but i couldn't go to see her because i had to save money and work. We also spoke again a week ago about what we would do the next time we meet. I'm literally crying my heart out right now and bought your favorite beer. Tommorow gonna go temple and pray for you and your friends.

Rest in peace Chayanan Surin.

The good die young indeed..

[mojorison]

Vinegar is better than nothing, however the most common reaction is to rub the area with a towel or sand and this activates and spreads the toxin, it is of the utmost importance to attempt to remove the tentacles with tweezers. This is critical, and SFA people in the profession here seem to know about this. Why? Because they are inattentive, careless, and make more money from despair than they do joy. TIT

[mojorison]

That girl was a friend of mine. I've met her in Bangkok in 2010 when she was girlfriend of my best friend. She was one of the most genuinely kind person i have ever come across. Everytime i felt down she was always there for me to help and give me advices. I feel very bad for her best friend that went with her on that trip and was with her in the ambulance when she died in her arms. This is a terrible tragedy... words can't explain the sadness i have right now. She contacted me in April for Songkran since she was there for a trip and wanted to see me but i couldn't go to see her because i had to save money and work. We also spoke again a week ago about what we would do the next time we meet. I'm literally crying my heart out right now and bought your favorite beer. Tommorow gonna go temple and pray for you and your friends.

Rest in peace Chayanan Surin.

The good die young indeed..

Condolences.

[Basil B]

shocky2004...

My sincerest condolences, what else can one say.

There is no practical way to prevent this type of accident, box jellyfish are now in Thai waters and probably will never be eradicated, I just feel more can be done to educate Thai's in first aid and having the right equipment and facilities on hand to deal with this sort of incident quickly and efficiently...

[Sandman77]

What beach the woman was swimming in phangan?

There are diffrent type of vinegar for cooking and medical vinegar what is the diffrence? The result is better when you mix it with backing powder!

[fish fingers]

That girl was a friend of mine. I've met her in Bangkok in 2010 when she was girlfriend of my best friend. She was one of the most genuinely kind person i have ever come across. Everytime i felt down she was always there for me to help and give me advices. I feel very bad for her best friend that went with her on that trip and was with her in the ambulance when she died in her arms. This is a terrible tragedy... words can't explain the sadness i have right now. She contacted me in April for Songkran since she was there for a trip and wanted to see me but i couldn't go to see her because i had to save money and work. We also spoke again a week ago about what we would do the next time we meet. I'm literally crying my heart out right now and bought your favorite beer. Tommorow gonna go temple and pray for you and your friends.

Rest in peace Chayanan Surin.

The good die young indeed..

very sorry. I hope her friend is getting lots of support

[samuijimmy]

There are a few signs on Samui, I've not been to KP for a while.... but perhaps there are some now? but they are not going to post every 50 metres....

It would be best to carry one's own vinegar, 5% white vinegar is about 60 baht for 3 litres at all the large stores... bottle it down for beach use (just in case) or just purchase a small bottle of white vinegar!

Beach morning glory is supposed to help too...

Condolences to family and friends for the death of the victim....

[jtTamad]

So do they have emergency vinegar stations like Australia has?

I'm guessing NO!

Have you seen the price of malt vinegar here ?

I'm pretty sure it's not malt vinegar that they use, white vinegar is extremely cheap!

Read the label on Thai vinegar bottles 10 % vinegar

90% water

[jtTamad]

Vinegar is about 10% acetic acid - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid

[jtTamad]

This discusses that Vinegar shouldn't be used & has a link to the ARC, but that doesn't page doesn't exist.

When I went directly to the ARC & searched for "Vinegar & Jellyfish", nothing was found. Bit odd.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/vinegar-makes-box-jellyfish-stings-worse-aust-researchers/5374274

Whatever the answer is for the Primary Treatment of stings, a consistent response is needed, with the treatment made available on every beach.

Are the Lifeguards trained in how to deal with stings?

Whereas, this says that Vinegar should be used, & is from 2014.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/jellyfish_stings/page4_em.htm

[jtTamad]

Seems to have been some research suggesting vinegar might make it worse, but the study is called into question. Probably not applicable to real world scenario.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/science-sushi/2014/04/09/stop-using-vinegar-treat-box-jelly-stings-yet-venom-experts-weigh-recent-study/#.Vb7Pt-iqpBd

[evadgib]

These are less than THB 100 in Tescos:

Residents should ideally have a 'crash bag' for use on the beach, inc 1litre vinegar, latex gloves, spatula & anti histamine.

If all else fails grab the nearest bottle of HP or Ketchup, apply liberally and remove the tentacles without rubbing or touching with unprotected hands.

HTH

[evadgib]

So do they have emergency vinegar stations like Australia has?

I'm guessing NO!

Have you seen the price of malt vinegar here ?

The cost of 24hrs in ICU would fill a shipping container

[Basil B]

Please...

This thread is about someone who lost their life the other day...

That girl was a friend of mine. I've met her in Bangkok in 2010 when she was girlfriend of my best friend. She was one of the most genuinely kind person i have ever come across. Everytime i felt down she was always there for me to help and give me advices. I feel very bad for her best friend that went with her on that trip and was with her in the ambulance when she died in her arms. This is a terrible tragedy... words can't explain the sadness i have right now. She contacted me in April for Songkran since she was there for a trip and wanted to see me but i couldn't go to see her because i had to save money and work. We also spoke again a week ago about what we would do the next time we meet. I'm literally crying my heart out right now and bought your favorite beer. Tommorow gonna go temple and pray for you and your friends.

Rest in peace Chayanan Surin.

The good die young indeed..

And shocky has just reminded us it does not matter who it was there is always the chance that loved ones will read the post...

Many of us have good intentions and want to see that this never happens again, but may I suggest talk of vinegar and other treatments moves to "Jellyfish Sings" started back in 2008 and still going strong on the main Samui forum --> http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/220824-jellyfish-stings/page-4#entry9693030

[evadgib]

Interesting reading:

https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=7fy-Vbi_KYrIuASt17Mo#q=hawaii+box+jellyfish

[casualbiker]

Please...

This thread is about someone who lost their life the other day...

That girl was a friend of mine. I've met her in Bangkok in 2010 when she was girlfriend of my best friend. She was one of the most genuinely kind person i have ever come across. Everytime i felt down she was always there for me to help and give me advices. I feel very bad for her best friend that went with her on that trip and was with her in the ambulance when she died in her arms. This is a terrible tragedy... words can't explain the sadness i have right now. She contacted me in April for Songkran since she was there for a trip and wanted to see me but i couldn't go to see her because i had to save money and work. We also spoke again a week ago about what we would do the next time we meet. I'm literally crying my heart out right now and bought your favorite beer. Tommorow gonna go temple and pray for you and your friends.

Rest in peace Chayanan Surin.

The good die young indeed..

And shocky has just reminded us it does not matter who it was there is always the chance that loved ones will read the post...

Many of us have good intentions and want to see that this never happens again, but may I suggest talk of vinegar and other treatments moves to "Jellyfish Sings" started back in 2008 and still going strong on the main Samui forum --> http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/220824-jellyfish-stings/page-4#entry9693030

I think that in relation to the news article it's extremely relevant to discuss things that could have potentially saved lives, we all feel for the family and friends of the deceased lady. But if just one person reading this thread actually takes a bottle of Vinegar to the beach and follows the guidelines in the event of a jellyfish incident. And subsequently saves someone.

Then that would be great! No?

[jtTamad]

Sting No More.

Introduced about a month ago, in Hawaii:

http://www.hawaiiweblog.com/2015/06/17/jellyfish-sting-cream

[PaPiPuPePo]

Sting No More.

Introduced about a month ago, in Hawaii:

http://www.hawaiiweblog.com/2015/06/17/jellyfish-sting-cream

I know it's common practice these days but before you recommend something like this it's a good idea to give it a careful look first. Nowhere does the website give any details about the cream, the "product detail" page only lists tube sizes/volumes, nothing about the cream except it's "mil-spec" and is a "proprietary, patent-pending product" for "relief from box jellyfish and fire-ant bites." Relief is very general, at best would mean reducing the amount of venom/toxins entering the body, as that's the best response, but could also mean only reducing symptoms or pain. Relating it to fire ants suggests the latter, since the latter is just formic acid which is far from the closest toxin to those in box jellyfish stings, but both are very painful and would be "relieved" by a vinegar-like (i.e. high pH) liquid or cream.

Otherwise there's nothing about it which suggests it's better than vinegar and carefully removing the nematocysts before they fire. Once the venom's in the body no cream, mil-spec or not, is going to help.

[ABCer]

Box Jellyfish sting may be deadly. Mostly because it sends the victim into a shock and renders him/her unconscious.

If it happens in deep water - you are as good as dead.

If it happens near the beach and there are people who can help - you may survive.

Local lifeguards must get a course on treatment. Vinegar is only slightly relieving pain factor.

The main causes of death are two:

- heart failure due to pain shock; if your heart is weak - no dice!

- suffocation due to chest contraction; any form of resuscitation for prolonged period (do not give up if no vitals!) can save a life.

Thais must educate their lifeguards.

Oh, yes, Box Jellies are not only small, but transparent - virtually invisible in sea water.

[limbos]

Poor woman, such a painful way to die.

However, is washing the area with Vinegar still indicated? Don't think it is - at least not in every case.

Yes it is, vinegar is still the first line of defense/help for box jelly fish treatment once stung. It will not reduce the pain but it will prevent other still active stingers from firing off.

[limbos]

Is there any maps avaiable over where jellyfish are more common in Thailand ? Not every beach resort I suppose.. Is it more of them this month than others?

Here's a map provided by DAN, which is already a few years old, but still accurate.

The current monsoon period in Thailand, roughly from August to October/November does see a higher chance of getting stung, but stings have been recorded around Thailand in months outside of the mentioned period.

[limbos]

To ,solve, the problem I think only possibility is to install a big large fishing net , to hold the jelly fish back , and make swimming areas sorounded by nets , I think this should be a possible mission to realeize , when I ask in pharmacy about jelly fish bytes , only give me a cream for normal insect bytes , not sure the antiserum is avalible for the public?

In japanese sea the jellyfish have higest concentration , I see in national geographic !

Looks like the sweet mmm my paradise is gone!

There is no cream of something like that against jelly fish stings. The best line of defense is to use vinegar.

The Irukandji box jelly fish are so small that they will be able to pass through the nets, currently there's no positive sighting of irukandji in Thailand but they may be around.

[limbos]

This discusses that Vinegar shouldn't be used & has a link to the ARC, but that doesn't page doesn't exist.

When I went directly to the ARC & searched for "Vinegar & Jellyfish", nothing was found. Bit odd.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/vinegar-makes-box-jellyfish-stings-worse-aust-researchers/5374274

Whatever the answer is for the Primary Treatment of stings, a consistent response is needed, with the treatment made available on every beach.

Are the Lifeguards trained in how to deal with stings?

Whereas, this says that Vinegar should be used, & is from 2014.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/jellyfish_stings/page4_em.htm

Faraday, there has indeed been commotion about the use of vinegar. The specialist and experts are in hot debate about this, but the result at the moment is that vinegar is still advised to be used for box jelly fish stings.

Here are some views by Lisa Gershwin on the research;

There were several things questionable about the research, in no particular order:

The authors forced nematocyst discharge with an electrical current. The nematocysts fired into a membrane, then venom was collected under the membrane; vinegar was then applied to the tentacles, and then they collected venom again from under the membrane. They found that 60% more venom was obtained in the second round. They therefore concluded that the vinegar was causing venom to come out of the already discharged nematocysts.

First, There is no evidence that demonstrates that electrocuted tentacles behave like natural stings. In particular, it seems more likely that natural stings leave little venom behind, whereas electrocuted tentacles are likely to cause abortive firing, or incomplete firing, thus quite possibly leaving some venom behind. If this is the case, then the model does not represent real stings.

Second, their experimental design did not control for venom initially discharged into the membrane or pooled above the membrane, only what came through with each wash. Therefore it may be that some venom was lodged in or above the membrane from the initial electrocution, and was subsequently recovered by the second wash, giving misleading conclusions.

Third, the post-vinegar recovery was of very low venom potency, suggesting that it was diluted, supporting the idea that the venom came from in or above the membrane, not from secondary discharge. In this case, vinegar would be a better solvent than originally realised -- and better than seawater -- and therefore an even better first aid option.

Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, the percentages tell the whole story. The authors estimated that 20-30% of nematocysts fire initially (I estimate 10-20%, but the difference doesn't matter for this argument). So 60% of 20-30% is about 10-15% additional venom load. But even if their hypothesis turns out to be entirely correct, that still leaves the other 70-80% of nematocysts armed and dangerous. It's that 70-80% that you want to disable, because it is greater than the 10-15%. So if vinegar causes 10-15% more but it also causes 70-80% less, then by using vinegar you're still some 60-70% better off to use vinegar. Sorry my math is probably not so good this time of night (2am), but you get the idea hopefully.

Finally, much of the media quoted one of the authors of the study as saying that they found that vinegar makes stings worse. That's not true -- that's not what they found. They didn't test stings. They tested electrocuted tentacles in a lab. What they actually found was additional venom recovered after application of vinegar to electrocuted tentacles over a membrane in a lab -- that's all, no more can be inferred from this experiment. But their incomplete procedures even make what they did find debatable.

For these reasons, safety organizations in Australia have not adopted the study or changed their recommendations.

Dr Lisa-Ann Gershwin

Research Scientist and Writer

[limbos]

Stingose - works like magic on jellyfish (and mosquitoes) stings.

There's no proof that this will work with jelly stings, let alone box jelly

[limbos]

I don't think vinegar will save your life for this particular spieces .... artificial breathing maybe ...what about forming some nurses in australia and what about the stigose in a previous coment ?

Use of vinegar will give you the best fighting chance to survive if stung by box jelly fish.

There's a Thai work group, funded by the Thai government who have regularly visited Samui and Phangan (they're currently on Samui and Phangan) to raise awareness and set up networks to make help swift and easy when needed.

Lots of presentation in hospitals and clinics on both islands have been given, awareness is slowly coming around.

[limbos]

It is not wise to go swim in the seas after dark.

For the lady, sorry you had to go through so much pain.

Swimming in day or night time makes no difference. Most cases of box jelly fish stings are recorded during the day time. It's a lot harder to give help during the night time, due to various reasons. The first reactions to the Thai lady in problems were the wrong actions, due to the darkness, her problems were misinterpreted and initial response was for drowning, not for box jelly fish stings.

[limbos]

Thaiwife claim that morning Thai News say that NO warning signs about box jellyfish was up until the poor woman got stung ... then signs came up ... TiT I guess, life has no value here awful way to go for her

RIP

Box jellyfish is a new phenomenon in Thailand. They were first observed a few years ago. There is just not enough local knowledge about these creatures yet.

That's not correct. Local Thai people that live and/or work near the sea know box jelly fish since a long time. First known recorded fatality is on Chaweng beach back in 1999.