National Park Scam?

[Tomtomtom69]

Yea off course, Thai cant tell if a Thai lady is Filipino or not..........

We are in Europe now.

My wife - Thai - regularly asks Thai looking people if they are Thai.

Most are from the Filipines.

So, no, a Thai can not tell the difference by just looking at them.

Well that's why Thai officials, if they want to look less stupid and less racist should ask all Thais (and Thai looking individuals) to produce a national ID card, passport or other document to prove their Thai nationality and thus get entry at the local price. No Thai ID card (or equivalent document such as a driver's licence with a Thai name in Thai script) = NO ENTRY at the local price. Besides, all Thai nationals MUST by law be in possession of an ID card if aged 15 and above, so this is not a difficult thing to do.

That action alone would then dismiss the possibility of dual pricing as being racist and thus it merely becomes nationalistic (perhaps still racist in a sense but still a major improvement on the current situation).

Unfortunately, right now only westerners, Africans or others who don't look Thai are ever asked for proof of citizenship or other documents that work in lieu, to get the local price. Very occasional anecdotal reports pop up about Thais living in the west being asked to pay the foreigner price, asked for proof of citizenship or even rich Thais driving up in BMWs being asked to pay the higher price, but these reports are rare.

It's also telling if Thais can't differentiate themselves from other Asians (yes many Asians look the same, but after living here for a while even I can generally easily tell the difference between different South-East Asians for example) that they still make ridiculous assumptions like Thais are the only Asians in Thailand and the only foreigners/tourists are "farang". Haha...those days are long gone. Today at least 60% of all visitors to Thailand are Asians and that percentage is only likely to creep up over time. In a sense it's surprising that as many as 30% or so are still from European countries/North America/Oceania (Australia/New Zealand). Over time expect that percentage to dwindle down to 10% or less...I wonder what Thais will think then - all these Asian tourists, no more westerners.

[Tomtomtom69]

Somebody asked if there was anywhere else in the world that does this. Plenty. Maybe some will disagree, but in my experience the 'worst' of it for a foreigner begins on the map in India and then East from there.

I also find it is at its worst (as in most official) in cultures without (or not originally) Abrahamic rooted cultures. So,that is your Hindus and Buddhists (as lay people in a mass, not monks etc). Chinese, Tibetans,too.

That is quite a good analogy. Although based on my experiences, dual pricing is practiced as follows in some of the following countries:

Thailand - widely practiced in the tourism industry by both government and private operators. Many national parks, hot springs, some museums, major temples and amusement parks charge different prices for foreigners compared to locals. In general, private establishments are more likely to accept a Thai driver's licence or someone speaking Thai as proof of being entitled to the local rate, compared to national parks and some temples such as the Grand Palace. Of course, private operators shouldn't even be allowed to get away with dual pricing and the heritage sites should sight IDs of all visitors before determining what they should pay. Expats should be entitled to the local rate.

Laos - have seen only a small number of touristy temples and some waterfalls where dual pricing is practiced. But the difference between local and foreigner pricing is never much - the maximum entry fee anywhere in Laos is just 20,000 Kip (just over 80 Baht), while Lao locals might pay 10,000 at the same place. Or quite often they also have to pay the same 20,000. Foreign Asians are never assumed to be Lao (unless they state they are Lao and sometimes need to show ID) and are immediately charged the full foreigner fee, besides, Lao has such a small population, few foreigners speak their language and many Asian tourists from Thailand, Vietnam, Korea and China are generally more numerous at any tourist attraction than local Lao are. One might also argue that since Laos is still quite poor, dual pricing is somewhat justified there. Maybe, but then again what do the ticket sellers have to gain from an extra 10,000 Kip? Or 3,000 Kip for places that charge 5,000 vs. 2,000 Kip? Also, unlike in Thailand, it's rarely free for a Lao citizen to enter any attraction that practices dual pricing. It's simply cheaper, but everyone has to pay something.

Vietnam - dual pricing used to be rampant with hotels, domestic flights and trains all charging foreigners more, up until the end of the 1990s, with dual pricing on domestic flights ending in 2002. Most tourist attractions charge just one rate for foreigners and locals. A couple of heritage sites located mainly in central Vietnam charge different rates for foreigners and locals, but the difference isn't much - e.g. 35,000 Dong for the Hue Palace compared to 55,000 Dong for foreigners and another site in that region charges 100,000 vs. 150,000. As far as I'm aware, there is no dual pricing at private amusement parks such as the Saigon Water Park. Not even in 2003 when I first went there. While there are many reports of unhappy travellers who believe they have been ripped off in Vietnam, as far as official, government mandated dual pricing is concerned, it's quite rare there and a concerted effort has been made at eliminating the practice over the years. Unlike in Thailand, who could learn from the Vietnamese in this respect.

Cambodia - dual pricing at a few heritage sites, most notably Angkor Wat. I never really thought about whether locals can get in for free or not, as most travellers up until recently never really discussed this issue. Angkor Wat definitely needs to charge an entrance fee from visitors (by visitors I mean anyone in general without regard to nationality) but how resident expats are treated I can't say. Having said that, like most tourist attractions of similar importance in Thailand (such as the Grand Palace) I can't imagine an expat (or even a regular foreign traveller) ever wanting to visit Angkor Wat more than once. Nothing changes the second time you visit, you're better off seeing something different as life's too short to see the same monuments, temples etc. time and time again. Dual pricing in Cambodia also seems to be occasionally practiced by some bus ticket operators (on domestic services). There the difference is like $1-2. And before the airport taxes were incorporated in the ticket price, Cambodians got a discount US$18 vs. US$25 on international flights and US$5 vs. US$6 on domestic flights. Maybe not anymore though since airlines don't know the nationality of the purchaser and don't want to get involved in this kind of messy, discriminatory game.

Myanmar - widespread at major tourist sites such as Schwedagon in Yangon, where foreigners pay 8,000 Kyat (up from 5,000 not too long ago) while locals pay nothing. Bagan charges US$20, not sure what locals pay there (if anything). Inle Lake also has an entrance fee of 10,000 Kyat (around US$10) that locals may or may not have to pay. Although there is a trend for uniform prices, many hotels, some tourist trains and some domestic airline seats still practice a policy of dual pricing, though the differences in foreigner vs. local rates are not as high as they used to be.

India - many heritage sites and monuments, some zoos and botanical gardens charge foreigners more, such as 2 Rupees for locals and 100 for foreigners or something like that. Racial profiling is used to determine nationality.

China - used to be very widespread affecting hotels, domestic flights and some other things prior to 1996. However, since then, no more dual pricing anywhere. However, occasionally I hear reports of local residents of some attractions being allowed free entry or perhaps reduced price entry while tourists (including Chinese) not resident in those areas and foreigners having to pay, but in those cases both the Chinese tourists and the foreign tourists pay the same...presumably it works similar to what some people claim happens in Florida, where local residents, upon sighting an ID card of some sort with a local address are given a "local's discount". Also, unlike in Thailand, foreigners (both tourists and resident expats) can get discounts for being senior citizens or students, where offered. Thailand rarely if ever offers such discounts at all, and in the rare cases it does, it's generally only for Thai citizens.

Australia - apart from charging foreign, i.e. international students (this definition excludes NZ citizens) more than locals for study at university, there are no known reports of any other establishments charging different rates for foreigners vs. locals. To do so would be against anti-discrimination laws.

USA - apart from charging different in-state/out-of-state fees for university students (this means a California based student going to study in New York would be charged the same as an African, or Thai doing the same), and reports of local residents getting discounts at some attractions, especially for 1-year passes, again, no establishments allowed to charge different rates for locals vs. foreigners. Like in Australia, to do so would be against anti-discrimination laws and invite lawsuits and media scorn.

I'm sure there is dual pricing practiced in other countries too, one could even say that the US$200/250 daily entrance fee to obtain a visa for Bhutan is dual pricing, and for the three nationalities that don't require a Bhutanese visa it seems that they don't have to pay this fee either (this applies to Bangladeshis, Maldivians and Indians).

Other countries I haven't mentioned? Have your say...

[invex]

I live in Thailand for over 15 years. Speak Thai quite well and have a Thai driver license. Wanted to drive through Khao Yai on my way to Pattaya frmo Khon Kaen. No way to get the Thai price. Had to pay 800 Baht which I didn't making a u-turn.

[dazzz]

By the way many countries charge double prices to foreigners.In Europe we also do it but we are more subtle.In the UK many of the top tourist destinations have ridiculous prices.They only sell yearly passes.In effect this is double pricing as foreigners on holidays for two weeks are not gonna have the opportunity to go again but residents will...Thailand is not subtle but at least we know they are doing it!!

Is this just some rubbish off the top of your head ?!

First this is about thialand not the world.

Second , which places in europe charge more for foreigners ? Easy to post usless wrong information if you do not name any places with double pricing in europe.

My wife has been to uk with me twice and we went all over uk and everywhere we went we were charged the same , ie alton towers , oakwood in wales , tower of london , london eye , madame tussauds , museums free for foreigners , library internet free for foreigners ,all national parks free for foreigners.

What yearly tourist attractions only have yearly passes ? I have never heard of one .Been to lots of water parks ,leisure centres always paid the same.

I have been to disneyland in paris and florida never seen dual pricing except i read something in florida that locals could get in cheaper as they have to put up with the hassle .

Always somebody to slag of uk to make thailand not seem so bad.

I will never pay more than my wife as when i went to koh samed a few years ago and they wanted 400 baht from me and 40 from my wife to keep the island clean i was told . The fact the thais make it dirty seemed to escape them , I got back on the boat with my wife and also 2 american women would not pay and the 4 of us went elsewhere and koh samed lost out. Grand palace wanted 800 baht from me , free for wife . I waited outside. Thai boxing match wanted 1600baht from me(800) for thai i never went in , siam waterworld 400 baht for wife 800 for me . Never went in and same with lots of places . I never get upset i just walk away and go some other place .

dazzz

Wow..All those family days out ruined by your principles.Hope it was worth it!!

My wife is not a family and no days were ruined. Left koh samed went to koh chang had the best holiday i ever had. My wife said grand palace was rubbish . I sat nearby with a beer and watched the palace is shut scammers which was more entertaining than an old palace.Had wait in bkk for 2 days for my wife so went for a walk . Seen the boxing and thought i would have a look. Did not want to pay 1600baht as i am not a keen boxing fan ,was just curious so nothing ruined . Never went to Siam world as i seen the pricing on their website , took my kid to fantasia a roof top pool and sub zero ice rink which together was cheaper than siam world and was same price for all. I have been in thailand for 8 yrs now so I don`t ruined my days i just plan to go to places in know i will not be racially discriminated against.

Back on topic as you slagged off my country country saying it is also racist could you please tell me which are these places charge more depending on race and which places have yearly tickets. If you cannot do that as it is all a load of bull please delete your post for telling lies on a forum about my country

[Card]

yes it's all over. I have a condo nearby and used to get in with a bike for 70 baht by showing my Thai driver's licence, but the govt recently brought in the 10x farang price at all national parks. last time i went and showed my Thai driver's licence they said 400 baht per person, so I turned around and left. Pity as I use to like going there on my bike. I will now go less often and they will lose money.

[1BADDAT]

yes it's all over. I have a condo nearby and used to get in with a bike for 70 baht by showing my Thai driver's licence, but the govt recently brought in the 10x farang price at all national parks. last time i went and showed my Thai driver's licence they said 400 baht per person, so I turned around and left. Pity as I use to like going there on my bike. I will now go less often and they will lose money.

although I agree with most of what you say, it is not clear if they will gain or lose money because of this. If 9 out of 10 who would normally get the discount decide not to go then it is break even right?

What I think we can all (or most at least) agree on is that for any of of who live here and have a Thai DL, the fact that we will probably have to pay 10x more than a thai national, is going to make it less likely that we will want to go to these places.

[mogandave]

The way I look at it is that ,in principle, it is wrong to charge foreigners who are resident here more.

However, I don't go to national parks that often, maybe a few times a year. It takes so much time ,effort and money to organize trips.Is it really worth giving up a great day out just because of a principle???

I was recently charged full price in Khao Sam Roi Yoy park. I was nice about it so they let my son in for free.We had an amazing day that we will never forget.If I was stubborn like the OP we would've had a shit day. Life is too short.Pay the few hundred baht extra and live your life to the full....

By the way many countries charge double prices to foreigners.In Europe we also do it but we are more subtle.In the UK many of the top tourist destinations have ridiculous prices.They only sell yearly passes.In effect this is double pricing as foreigners on holidays for two weeks are not gonna have the opportunity to go again but residents will...Thailand is not subtle but at least we know they are doing it!!

Stubborn, yes!

They had stamped the ticket before my motorbike had even stopped, there was (still is) no way they knew my girlfriend was not Thai, so that was a scam.

Secondly my girlfriend has a salary. I asked her would she pay? No was the answer.

Sometimes one must stick to one's principles.

Particularly when a little money is involved.

So had the charged you 400 and let the GF in for the Thai price would that have been okay?

[HeijoshinCool]

In News back in February so unfortunately she was correct.

Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

.

Yep, and just yesterday they announced changes in the visa rules, to attract more tourists.

These people are just plain stupid.

[stevenl]

yes it's all over. I have a condo nearby and used to get in with a bike for 70 baht by showing my Thai driver's licence, but the govt recently brought in the 10x farang price at all national parks. last time i went and showed my Thai driver's licence they said 400 baht per person, so I turned around and left. Pity as I use to like going there on my bike. I will now go less often and they will lose money.

although I agree with most of what you say, it is not clear if they will gain or lose money because of this. If 9 out of 10 who would normally get the discount decide not to go then it is break even right?

What I think we can all (or most at least) agree on is that for any of of who live here and have a Thai DL, the fact that we will probably have to pay 10x more than a thai national, is going to make it less likely that we will want to go to these places.

So far not my experience.