What kind of insurance should I get if I live in Thailand all the time

[konying]

I never worked or claimed to work in rayong.

Please show me otherwise or stop with these nonsense posts

SO you work for insurance company in Thailand? great show proof and for the 7th time show some proof to your assertions, otherwise stop posting nonsense based on "you said so"

[stevenl]

... and then there is always ones like this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715545-problems-with-bupa-claim-denial/

Which pretty much confirms that insurance companies can and do look for any excuse NOT to pay.

Weight difference may well be used as a point of denial and this was the point broker told me. I am assuming his information comes from having experience and past dealing with the company handling claims for customers, but again company in question ACS, there seems to be no reports at all from people making claims, plenty of people confirming to have the policy though.

Possibly because ACS ONLY accepts super healthy people and hence the cheap premiums.

No. Op admits there was a medical condition not disclosed to the insurance company.

[konying]

... and then there is always ones like this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715545-problems-with-bupa-claim-denial/

Which pretty much confirms that insurance companies can and do look for any excuse NOT to pay.

Weight difference may well be used as a point of denial and this was the point broker told me. I am assuming his information comes from having experience and past dealing with the company handling claims for customers, but again company in question ACS, there seems to be no reports at all from people making claims, plenty of people confirming to have the policy though.

Possibly because ACS ONLY accepts super healthy people and hence the cheap premiums.

No. Op admits there was a medical condition not disclosed to the insurance company.

Well now its pretty clear you have problems reading.

OP states he did not even know such condition existed as hospital never disclosed it to him or his wife and upon requesting information from the hospital, they failed to provide it, but insurance company found it and only provided it after numerous requests by OP

So if someone stated they weigh 72kg upon admittance by insurance but weight 90kg(overweight) at the time of the claim, insurance would not deny them under any circumstance, is that correct?

Carry on, your expertise are really starting to show

Edited August 16, 2015 by konying

[topt]

I'm being dumb, and was tired - it is of course very decent basic INPATIENT cover that I have, not outpatient.

Covers SEA, and also emergencies worldwide (excluding US)

@parafareno by decent I mean 500k US a year cover, no excess, no exclusions, 100% expenses, 250USD a day private room and guaranteed renewal until 75.

800 USD a year via aainsure. It's with ACS and underwritten by Allianz.

RW have you ever had a claim? i was offered this policy few years ago, from memory $760 but was told by another broker claims with this policy are very problematic.

Which does make sense when the policy is half the going price in comparison to other insurance companies with the same benefits

My understanding is that price would be for someone under 38? At 51 the price is more than double (jumps a lot after 50).

[topt]

... and then there is always ones like this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715545-problems-with-bupa-claim-denial/

Which pretty much confirms that insurance companies can and do look for any excuse NOT to pay.

Weight difference may well be used as a point of denial and this was the point broker told me. I am assuming his information comes from having experience and past dealing with the company handling claims for customers, but again company in question ACS, there seems to be no reports at all from people making claims, plenty of people confirming to have the policy though.

Possibly because ACS ONLY accepts super healthy people and hence the cheap premiums.

No. Op admits there was a medical condition not disclosed to the insurance company.

Well now its pretty clear you have problems reading.

OP states he did not even know such condition existed as hospital never disclosed it to him or his wife and upon requesting information from the hospital, they failed to provide it, but insurance company found it and only provided it after numerous requests by OP

So if someone stated they weigh 72kg upon admittance by insurance but weight 90kg(overweight) at the time of the claim, insurance would not deny them under any circumstance, is that correct?

Carry on, your expertise are really starting to show

Guys maybe you should get a room as this bickering is not furthering the thread for other contributors

Most of us will all be aware that nearly every insurance company dealing with a claim, especially from individuals rather than a company, will see if there is an out. It happens everywhere with all types of insurance and I guess is not surprising considering the amount of fraudulent claims that go on. What we don't have is any first hand response to a claim with ACS which would be useful. Konying has quoted a broker and I guess it depends on how much he trusts the broker as to how much credence he gives but unfortunately for the rest of us it is only the unsubstantiated views of an unknown third party.

I am also considering the ACS policy with others but at my age it is a lot higher than the figures already quoted So if anybody has some first hand experience it would be good to hear

[oxo1947]

but how much is it? I am not paying more than 500 usd per year, I rather die

Well there's your answer------- you don't need any insurance, .................

[rwdrwdrwd]

I'm being dumb, and was tired - it is of course very decent basic INPATIENT cover that I have, not outpatient.

Covers SEA, and also emergencies worldwide (excluding US)

@parafareno by decent I mean 500k US a year cover, no excess, no exclusions, 100% expenses, 250USD a day private room and guaranteed renewal until 75.

800 USD a year via aainsure. It's with ACS and underwritten by Allianz.

RW have you ever had a claim? i was offered this policy few years ago, from memory $760 but was told by another broker claims with this policy are very problematic.

Which does make sense when the policy is half the going price in comparison to other insurance companies with the same benefits

My understanding is that price would be for someone under 38? At 51 the price is more than double (jumps a lot after 50).

You are correct, big jump of $600 at 51 bringing it to double the cost of a 40 year old.

Next big jump is at 66, maxes out at $2500 for a 75 year old, which is the max age.

Edited August 16, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[konying]

Guys maybe you should get a room as this bickering is not furthering the thread for other contributors

Most of us will all be aware that nearly every insurance company dealing with a claim, especially from individuals rather than a company, will see if there is an out. It happens everywhere with all types of insurance and I guess is not surprising considering the amount of fraudulent claims that go on. What we don't have is any first hand response to a claim with ACS which would be useful. Konying has quoted a broker and I guess it depends on how much he trusts the broker as to how much credence he gives but unfortunately for the rest of us it is only the unsubstantiated views of an unknown third party.

I am also considering the ACS policy with others but at my age it is a lot higher than the figures already quoted So if anybody has some first hand experience it would be good to hear

From memory ACS did have age limitation or a cut off age.

They also pretty strict with weight, ie not overweight by their standards, smokers and drinkers.

Allianz has other policies but at much higher prices.

After doing research and applying through a few, i settled on April/Ambassade policy.

Just as an example, i did apply with Bupa, i did have shoulder surgery about 7-8 years ago.

Bupa requested i provide hospital and surgeon reports. Both reports prior to surgery had my full physical stating i was fit as a bull, that included blood works.

I also provided discharge report, which again had full physical, including blood work and stated i was again fit as a bull.

Bupa loaded extra 50% to premium and added a number of exclusions, including anything cardio vascular related

April was provided with the same report and accepted me with no exclusions or loading.

I would suggest to contact a broker and seek quotes from a few companies, apply and see what they come back with.

PS. April had South East Asia policy and almost half the price, but it also had age restriction/cut off age. So even if you were to get it, they would cut you off at a certain age, irrespective if you made any claims. So best to make sure no such clause added to the policy you chose.

[JLCrab]

... and then there is always ones like this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715545-problems-with-bupa-claim-denial/

Which pretty much confirms that insurance companies can and do look for any excuse NOT to pay.

Weight difference may well be used as a point of denial and this was the point broker told me. I am assuming his information comes from having experience and past dealing with the company handling claims for customers, but again company in question ACS, there seems to be no reports at all from people making claims, plenty of people confirming to have the policy though.

Possibly because ACS ONLY accepts super healthy people and hence the cheap premiums.

No. Op admits there was a medical condition not disclosed to the insurance company.

My interpretation of the link I posted above: The gent in good faith applied for BUPA coverage saying that his wife had no prior medical history because his wife never told him that she had a prior medical history and it became evident to the doctors at the current hospital that she DID have some prior medical history which had not been disclosed and so informed BUPA after the surgery had been performed.

[stevenl]

... and then there is always ones like this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715545-problems-with-bupa-claim-denial/

Which pretty much confirms that insurance companies can and do look for any excuse NOT to pay.

Weight difference may well be used as a point of denial and this was the point broker told me. I am assuming his information comes from having experience and past dealing with the company handling claims for customers, but again company in question ACS, there seems to be no reports at all from people making claims, plenty of people confirming to have the policy though.

Possibly because ACS ONLY accepts super healthy people and hence the cheap premiums.

No. Op admits there was a medical condition not disclosed to the insurance company.

Well now its pretty clear you have problems reading.

OP states he did not even know such condition existed as hospital never disclosed it to him or his wife and upon requesting information from the hospital, they failed to provide it, but insurance company found it and only provided it after numerous requests by OP

So if someone stated they weigh 72kg upon admittance by insurance but weight 90kg(overweight) at the time of the claim, insurance would not deny them under any circumstance, is that correct?

Carry on, your expertise are really starting to show

So there was an undisclosed medical condition, very relevant in the illness at hand. Edited August 16, 2015 by stevenl

[konying]

So there was an undisclosed medical condition, very relevant in the illness at hand.

So lets try for the 10th time, if someone stated they weigh 72kg at the time of insurance acceptance but weight 90kg(overweight) at the time of the claim, insurance would not deny claim under any circumstance? because in your expert opinion insurance companies can not get away with doing that?

[parafareno]

what about this scenario, when you paid insurance your weight was lets say 90 kilos, but then you lost a limb and you now weigh 75 kilos, will they pay you more, because you weight less? these leeches are making me sick

[konying]

what about this scenario, when you paid insurance your weight was lets say 90 kilos, but then you lost a limb and you now weigh 75 kilos, will they pay you more, because you weight less? these leeches are making me sick

Who will pay you more?

Being overweight or gaining extra weight is not only about the weight. over weight causes a number of health issues such as cholesterol, heart problems, kidney problems and more. This is why you may find when you apply for insurance and state your weight, if insurer considers it being overweight, they often request full blood works and some may add exclusions or loadings.

So when you lodge a claim and happen to be different weight to your original application, lots of extra weight, there is no way for insurance to know if you lied on your initial application of have gained weight in the process, which gives them good enough reason to deny claim, unless you can prove otherwise, which may not be very easy

Edited August 17, 2015 by konying

[stevenl]

So there was an undisclosed medical condition, very relevant in the illness at hand.

So lets try for the 10th time, if someone stated they weigh 72kg at the time of insurance acceptance but weight 90kg(overweight) at the time of the claim, insurance would not deny claim under any circumstance? because in your expert opinion insurance companies can not get away with doing that?

Yes, if they would you have excellent grounfs fof sn appeal which you'll win.

First time you have asked that question BTW.

Edited August 17, 2015 by stevenl

[konying]

So there was an undisclosed medical condition, very relevant in the illness at hand.

So lets try for the 10th time, if someone stated they weigh 72kg at the time of insurance acceptance but weight 90kg(overweight) at the time of the claim, insurance would not deny claim under any circumstance? because in your expert opinion insurance companies can not get away with doing that?

Yes, if they would you have excellent grounfs fof sn appeal which you'll win.

First time you have asked that question BTW.

And how would you prove you did not lie about your weight on your initial application to win?

[streboris]

I'm more interested in how you would fight an appeal?

If you had huge medical bill that the insurance company don't pay. How would you pay extortionate prices of Lawers to fight? You won't get legal aid

[JLCrab]

I'm more interested in how you would fight an appeal?

If you had huge medical bill that the insurance company don't pay. How would you pay extortionate prices of Lawers to fight? You won't get legal aid

A big advantages of dealing with one of the Thai-based insurers is that, if you go to a specialist at one of their network hospitals, the insurer in most cases already has long experience with that doctor and knows whether the doctor's evaluation of need for surgery/treatment is reasonable or not.

Edited August 18, 2015 by JLCrab

[stevenl]

I'm more interested in how you would fight an appeal?

If you had huge medical bill that the insurance company don't pay. How would you pay extortionate prices of Lawers to fight? You won't get legal aid

A big advantages of dealing with one of the Thai-based insurers is that, if you go to a specialist at one of their network hospitals, the insurer in most cases already has long experience with that doctor and knows whether the doctor's evaluation of need for surgery/treatment is reasonable or not.

In addition, you can appeal according to the policy conditions.

On top of that, insurance companies in Thailand are tightly controlled by the Office of Insurance Commission. They will handle complaints against insurance companies, no expensive lawyers required. Insurance regulation in Thailand is much, much stricter than many people realise.

[streboris]

Slightly off topic but as a comparison. The Labor laws here in Saudi are very strict and very easy to put a complaint to the Labor Office for free and then if not resolved, to the Labor court, if you speak Arabic.

If you don't speak Arabic then it's a different story. Presenting a case to the Labor Office can be expensive in translations alone and they have no real powers. They can rule in your favour but the company can say no...

then it goes to court which is gonna cost minimum 250,000 Baht. Even with a solid case and a ruling in your favour the company can say no...

Then it goes to the high court at another minimum 250,000 baht cost... again with a ruling in your favour the company can say no...

Then it goes to the court of appeals.... another 250,000...

Company get ordered to pay you 250,000 baht but probably not the costs, and the lawyer take 10% cut, so you won at a cost of 525,000 baht... but even then if the company don't pay... it will cost even more...

At home you could use publicity to put pressure on them to help force them to do the right thing. In Thailand it's the same as Saudi with regards deformation. Publicity can get you in jail fast.

on paper and in theory you may have the right to appeal but in reality that is probably not worth a lot

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[stevenl]

Slightly off topic but as a comparison. The Labor laws here in Saudi are very strict and very easy to put a complaint to the Labor Office for free and then if not resolved, to the Labor court, if you speak Arabic.

If you don't speak Arabic then it's a different story. Presenting a case to the Labor Office can be expensive in translations alone and they have no real powers. They can rule in your favour but the company can say no...

then it goes to court which is gonna cost minimum 250,000 Baht. Even with a solid case and a ruling in your favour the company can say no...

Then it goes to the high court at another minimum 250,000 baht cost... again with a ruling in your favour the company can say no...

Then it goes to the court of appeals.... another 250,000...

Company get ordered to pay you 250,000 baht but probably not the costs, and the lawyer take 10% cut, so you won at a cost of 525,000 baht... but even then if the company don't pay... it will cost even more...

At home you could use publicity to put pressure on them to help force them to do the right thing. In Thailand it's the same as Saudi with regards deformation. Publicity can get you in jail fast.

on paper and in theory you may have the right to appeal but in reality that is probably not worth a lot

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You prove the point "Insurance regulation in Thailand is much, much stricter than many people realise.".

[streboris]

And you have experience of that in reality?

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[stevenl]

And you have experience of that in reality?

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No, no personal experience. People who know the ins and outs have assured me this works easy and is effective.

[streboris]

Yeah, I had all that assurance from people here in saudi regarding my employment issue. And the law is clear and freely accessible. Not being able to speak Arabic meant that the reality of trying to exercise my rights was a lot different.

I've been told many things about how things are supposed to be done in Thailand, but then found that in reality things are often a little more fluid, they change or people don't really know and just do their own thing.

The only consistency is the lack of consistency.

If the small print doesn't get you then the language barrier will...

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[eastendanto]

Will be driving Thai Bruv-in-Law's less than year old Toyota Vigo Hilux for about 10 days and wonder what members think about getting

car insurance for this short period of time. Still has current insurance from new on it provided by Sales showroom. As a farang do I needto get my own short term car insurance or does the Sales showroom insurance cover all drivers regardless of nationality? If I require to get my own short term cover are there any recommendations of which companies I can go to for a quote?

[stevenl]

Will be driving Thai Bruv-in-Law's less than year old Toyota Vigo Hilux for about 10 days and wonder what members think about getting

car insurance for this short period of time. Still has current insurance from new on it provided by Sales showroom. As a farang do I needto get my own short term car insurance or does the Sales showroom insurance cover all drivers regardless of nationality? If I require to get my own short term cover are there any recommendations of which companies I can go to for a quote?

Check the policy, but standard would be 'all drivers'.

[stevenl]

Yeah, I had all that assurance from people here in saudi regarding my employment issue. And the law is clear and freely accessible. Not being able to speak Arabic meant that the reality of trying to exercise my rights was a lot different.

I've been told many things about how things are supposed to be done in Thailand, but then found that in reality things are often a little more fluid, they change or people don't really know and just do their own thing.

The only consistency is the lack of consistency.

If the small print doesn't get you then the language barrier will...

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So based on a Saudi experience you think Thai insurance regulation and appeals are not working.

You're wrong, but not willing to accept

[streboris]

Lol

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[eastendanto]

Thanks for the responses all.....I'll stick with the already Thai insurance but will have a quick chat about excess insurance with a previous insurer in UK I used for a hire car over here.....

[speedtripler]

what about this scenario, when you paid insurance your weight was lets say 90 kilos, but then you lost a limb and you now weigh 75 kilos, will they pay you more, because you weight less? these leeches are making me sick

Who will pay you more?

Being overweight or gaining extra weight is not only about the weight. over weight causes a number of health issues such as cholesterol, heart problems, kidney problems and more. This is why you may find when you apply for insurance and state your weight, if insurer considers it being overweight, they often request full blood works and some may add exclusions or loadings.

So when you lodge a claim and happen to be different weight to your original application, lots of extra weight, there is no way for insurance to know if you lied on your initial application of have gained weight in the process, which gives them good enough reason to deny claim, unless you can prove otherwise, which may not be very easy

If they are going to be picky over details like gained weight etc they should make you do a physical before selling you the policy

I assumed they would do this anyway, I also think in insurance is overpriced since my most dangerous daily activities like motorbikes etc are not even covered in a lot of policy's

If it cost $500+ A month for good insurance I'll just save that much and pay if/when shit happens...

[NOC]

He is not required to pay Thai income tax on offshore income unless it is remitted in the year earned even if he is resident, whatever Paypal report, however much income there is - the same as every other resident here, Thai and non-Thai, whatever their visa status.

As I stated before, many (if not most) countries do not apply tax to foreign income of non resident citizens.

Why should someone pay tax that they are not legally required to? If one feels like being philanthropic, there are plenty of good causes that can be donated to independently.

More importantly though - how is it relevant to this topic about health insurance?

he is just grumpy old american, he is jealous EU countried do not bleed you dry if you not live there....

I don't see him as a grumpy old American. I see him as an astute individual.

I do the same thing, but I throw in off-shore nominee corporations owned by anonymous trusts in countries with banking privacy laws and no tax treaties, just for good measure.

It's my form of passive resistance.

Edited September 8, 2015 by NOC