Bars/restaurants for sale and restrictions on trade

[millwall_fan]

Hi P

I'm in your ex place at this very moment (1440 local time) having just bought a little libation - so no problem with your 2-5pm gap filler.

I am shocked that you should think 'Chiang Mai "Joe"' (you're spelling!) would even contemplate such a thing. He has never 'done it' before has he?

Might see you in town if you are here mid Oct.

That would be good, scottiejohn. There 17th-23rd October. Will contact you through Joe.!!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Kitty Kat bar on Loi Kroh has just changed hands.

Again..! That place keeps changing all the time, but nobody has ever managed to turn it into something good. (Higher prices relative to the surrounding bars certainly didn't help, plus it's slightly too big.)

I think as an advice to new bars trying to carve out some business:

* Forget about making lots of money on drinks prices at first, start out cheap and try and get regulars. Then prices can go up later, but any regulars still get things a bit cheaper, or get free drinks, etc.

* A large bar is harder to fill and create an 'atmosphere' than a small cozy one. Kitty Cat is actually relatively large, so consider partitioning off a lot of it. Can always extend it when it's a hit.

* Enough staff.. they don't all need to be cute and 18 year old, but there do need to be two of those, as well as 2-3 of any other type and age. This is actually the only really difficult one in this list. Actually don't even start the whole bar unless you have an angle on sourcing ass, it's MORE important that what your bar looks like and where it's located.

* Don't blow money on interior design and decorations. That's not why people visit bars and especially not in Loy Kroh. Use that money for staff and affordable drinks for the first months.

* Don't make an active effort to chase half the clientèle away with your superior taste in music. However superior it is, it will never work for 60 year old retirees, AND 20 year old tourists, AND your Thai/Shan/Hilltribe staff. Don't rock the boat here: you're selling beer & ass, not 'an experience'.

* Don't over-manage and treat your staff like they're in boot camp. Holy grail is pretty much to be so laid back that you get random friends & freelancers hanging out without taking a salary (just drinks commission), and make the occasional bottle appear for staff and hangers-on, especially on slow nights. Yes, not being taken advantage of is also a thing, but thats FAR secondary to building up a fun bar. You can always reel things in a bit more later, but first and foremost you want warm bodies in your shop, the rest is secondary.

Edited September 30, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[LivinLOS]

Agreed with that.. But..

as well as 2-3 of any other type and age.

LOL.. "any other type and age'.. A man of discerning tastes I see !!!

That really does sum up LK tho..

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ In addition to at least two really cute ones, yes. It's just reality; plus there is the basics of actually taking orders and serving drinks. Sometimes it's just as important to have someone who communicates well and knows what a Jaeger bomb looks like. Even if she's 40 years old.

Balance. It's about balance in any team.

[Chicog]

Kitty Kat bar on Loi Kroh has just changed hands.

Again..! That place keeps changing all the time, but nobody has ever managed to turn it into something good.

I think the lady that's just sold it has had it more than a year, but she was looking slightly pregnant when I last saw her.

Plus there was some big pisshead bogan boyfriend or hubby involved.

What chance another massage/souvenir/bric-a-brac shop?

Or "Thai restaurant"? As you say it's big enough for a few tables and chairs.

[millwall_fan]

Kitty Kat bar on Loi Kroh has just changed hands.

Again..! That place keeps changing all the time, but nobody has ever managed to turn it into something good. (Higher prices relative to the surrounding bars certainly didn't help, plus it's slightly too big.)

I think as an advice to new bars trying to carve out some business:

* Forget about making lots of money on drinks prices at first, start out cheap and try and get regulars. Then prices can go up later, but any regulars still get things a bit cheaper, or get free drinks, etc.

* A large bar is harder to fill and create an 'atmosphere' than a small cozy one. Kitty Cat is actually relatively large, so consider partitioning off a lot of it. Can always extend it when it's a hit.

* Enough staff.. they don't all need to be cute and 18 year old, but there do need to be two of those, as well as 2-3 of any other type and age. This is actually the only really difficult one in this list. Actually don't even start the whole bar unless you have an angle on sourcing ass, it's MORE important that what your bar looks like and where it's located.

* Don't blow money on interior design and decorations. That's not why people visit bars and especially not in Loy Kroh. Use that money for staff and affordable drinks for the first months.

* Don't make an active effort to chase half the clientèle away with your superior taste in music. However superior it is, it will never work for 60 year old retirees, AND 20 year old tourists, AND your Thai/Shan/Hilltribe staff. Don't rock the boat here: you're selling beer & ass, not 'an experience'.

* Don't over-manage and treat your staff like they're in boot camp. Holy grail is pretty much to be so laid back that you get random friends & freelancers hanging out without taking a salary (just drinks commission), and make the occasional bottle appear for staff and hangers-on, especially on slow nights. Yes, not being taken advantage of is also a thing, but thats FAR secondary to building up a fun bar. You can always reel things in a bit more later, but first and foremost you want warm bodies in your shop, the rest is secondary.

Generally speaking that's sound advice, the only caveats I would add are:

If you make your beer too cheap you'll attract every low life Farang in town. Mid range don't-stand-out pricing is probably the best way to go.

You mean 'cute and 20' 18 year olds aren't allowed to handle alcohol or the customers (!)

I quite agree - don't try to over manage Thais - they'll just walk out on you if the job is not sanuk, but by the same token you need to show you are the boss or they'd ride roughshod over you.

You'll never get the music quite right, whatever you play.

Location (especially in CM) is absolutely key.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Hi P

I'm in your ex place at this very moment (1440 local time) having just bought a little libation - so no problem with your 2-5pm gap filler.

I am shocked that you should think 'Chiang Mai "Joe"' (you're spelling!) would even contemplate such a thing. He has never 'done it' before has he?

Might see you in town if you are here mid Oct.

Hi John,

The 2.5m baht bar that I mentioned is of no concern to me other than the amusement it gives thinking that the guy thinks that under the present circumstances any bar in Chiang Mai is worth that much, never mind a bar in such a poor location that has changed hands several times in the last few years with each person being happy to have got out. I think the current owner may be the last one holding the parcel when the music stops because buyers are far and few between and bars for sale are numerous.

It's good to hear that some places are selling 2-5pm because that may fit in with a view from a bar-owner I know that suggested that the clampdown may be softening in the coming weeks/month. Let's hope so.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You mean 'cute and 20' 18 year olds aren't allowed to handle alcohol or the customers (!)

Sure.

[Konini]

Just a point of interest. To me any how. China has the most number of English speaking people in the world. also if you are one in a million they have over 1,100 just like you.

Spare us. LOL

Another point of interest (and off-topic) - when we were there 14 years ago in a large city full of tourists but non of them Caucasian apart from us, we went almost 2 weeks without speaking English to anyone apart from each other. It was difficult at times, but actually quite funny and we often attracted crowds of curious onlookers with our very expressive sign language. On our last day, looking for something in a large shop, we found that the sales assistant was able to write English. Couldn't speak it, or more likely wasn't confident enough to, but could write it. We wrote our question, she wrote the answer. Not perfectly, but good enough to solve our immediate problem.

Many Chinese, including her, taught themselves English from books and/or what there was of an internet back then, and many had never actually said words out loud.

Testament to their determination to succeed, in my opinion.

[Konini]

Although a dress code is a bit unusual, I can see why some places might want to have one. It's up to them if they want to exclude certain people based on attire, but to do it based on race, as you suggest this place does, shouldn't be allowed, and is illegal in some countries. I remember a night-club in Bournemouth, where I lived prior to moving here, had a 'No jeans' policy, which was a bit odd. I got caught out by that one a couple of times. I hear that some years later they had a 'No Shell-suits' policy but the local scousers complained that it was racist and they had to remove it.

I know of a place in town that has a No Riffraff sign, but that is totally understandable.

Tesco stores in UK had to put a no pyjama's rule in place a couple of years ago to stop women going in their dressing gowns and onesies. Immediately ridiculed because a few years ago they had an advert on TV with the bloke from Men Behaving Badly calling in for milk or something wearing his jim-jams and dressing gown....

(Shell suits should be banned full stop.)

[LivinLOS]

You mean 'cute and 20' 18 year olds aren't allowed to handle alcohol or the customers (!)

Not to nitpick but that isnt that case..

You need to be 20 to enter a bar.. But 18 to work in a bar.. Which leads to the crazy aspect where its legal to drink, only in the bar of your employment.

I used to have a 18 year old little friend in Patong and she would regularly get turned away from nightclubs when we were out after her shift..

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Me too, except right here in Chiang Mai, and she wasn't even 18 yet.

[cyberfarang]

Don't know about that,

My local coffee shop lady is run off her feet with all the Chinese tour groups here this month, buying breakfasts and coffee.

Her busiest month and year ever ...............................

Can i know where is the coffee shop ?

"The Dome",Huay Keow road, opposite the school, behind Elvira sewing.

Go after 9am to avoid the Chinese, they're out on day trips then.

A common mistake amongst some posters here is assuming that all Chinese are cheap and rude. There are plenty of well-heeled Chinese in Chiang Mai with money to spend and manners to go with it. A decent chunk of my business is now Asian, but since I have menus in Chinese, Japanese and Korean then it's not hard to see why. With direct flights to Chiang Mai from Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Shanghai etc, there are plenty of new customers to replace the slightly declining western tourists. Making brochures, signs or whatever in different languages isn't that expensive or difficult so I'm surprised more people aren't doing it, even though they are getting to be more prevalent.

It seems Chiang Mai is great if I am Chinese if you please. What next? Farang business owners doing their Dr FuManchu impersonations to make them feel welcome?

Looking at this in a European perspective, I would stay well clear of doing any business in Chiang Mai.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Looking at this in a European perspective, I would stay well clear of doing any business in Chiang Mai.

It seems Chiang Mai is great if I am Chinese if you please. What next? Farang business owners doing their Dr FuManchu impersonations to make them feel welcome?

It turns out that doing the same as you would for making any other nationality feel welcome works just fine.

For bars specifically it's not too unlike accommodating Thai people actually: they're a bit more likely to be in a group, so also having table seating that accommodates 4-5 people works better than only a bar with some bar stools. Serving some common (Thai) food also helps, even if that's just printing a menu of common Thai dishes that can be sourced from a nearby stall.

Edited October 2, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ilostmypassword]

It seems Chiang Mai is great if I am Chinese if you please. What next? Farang business owners doing their Dr FuManchu impersonations to make them feel welcome?

Looking at this in a European perspective, I would stay well clear of doing any business in Chiang Mai.

If I were Chinese, I'd certainly want to steer clear of giving any business to a racist like you.

[cyberfarang]

It seems Chiang Mai is great if I am Chinese if you please. What next? Farang business owners doing their Dr FuManchu impersonations to make them feel welcome?

Looking at this in a European perspective, I would stay well clear of doing any business in Chiang Mai.

If I were Chinese, I'd certainly want to steer clear of giving any business to a racist like you.

My meaning is that if European type restaurants have to go through the extremes to maintain business, then things can`t be good for them.

If they`re doing all right, good for them.

[Chicog]

Kitty Kat bar on Loi Kroh has just changed hands.

Again..! That place keeps changing all the time, but nobody has ever managed to turn it into something good.

I think the lady that's just sold it has had it more than a year, but she was looking slightly pregnant when I last saw her.

Plus there was some big pisshead bogan boyfriend or hubby involved.

What chance another massage/souvenir/bric-a-brac shop?

Or "Thai restaurant"? As you say it's big enough for a few tables and chairs.

It would seem it has been acquired by the DragonFly Bar next door. So they are either quite brave or know something....

[millwall_fan]

You mean 'cute and 20' 18 year olds aren't allowed to handle alcohol or the customers (!)

Not to nitpick but that isnt that case..

You need to be 20 to enter a bar.. But 18 to work in a bar.. Which leads to the crazy aspect where its legal to drink, only in the bar of your employment.

I used to have a 18 year old little friend in Patong and she would regularly get turned away from nightclubs when we were out after her shift..

One can work in a bar at 18 (or even younger) but you have to be 20 to sell or serve alcoholic drinks.

[LivinLOS]

It would seem it has been acquired by the DragonFly Bar next door. So they are either quite brave or know something....

Far didnt mention that on friday...

Still mostly complaining about her abusive ex roughing her up..

[Chicog]

I got that today.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It would seem it has been acquired by the DragonFly Bar next door. So they are either quite brave or know something....

At least they have a very good grasp on the priorities of running a bar..

[puukao]

Are you guys saying they are closing Spicy Bar at midnight???

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

i read comments on facebook that owners don't keep books.....but they love to say they make 1 zillion baht a month....

red flag. get it...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If crystal clean accounting practises were a factor in deciding where to go or what to buy then I wouldn't be going to a whole lot of places in Thailand.