ATM fees rise again

[Pib]

Can you provide the date/time of transfer and the amount sent in foreign currency and the amount credited in baht to your Thai account to be sure? AFAIK the .25% in range 200-500 is charged on all wire transfer (TT) deposits from foreign accounts but it may not be seen as is just less baht deposited. Do understand there is no fee on cash exchange - but cash is not telex transfer (tt).

Not sure who this is addressed to, but I can prove that the amount arriving in my Kbank account corresponds exactly to the posted exchange rate. I don't check this on every transfer anymore, but used to. No fees, just not the best possible exchange rate. (Note: my xfrs are usually in the $2-3000 range, so larger amounts might fetch a better rate.) Also, financial institutions executing such transfers from the U.S. are required by Dodd-Frank rules to inquire of the receiving foreign bank and then report to the customer any such fees (as well as their own, of course). Unless Kbank is lying to them, they're reporting no fees.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/869147-atm-fees-rise-again/?p=10058426

[lopburi3]

That is a non answer - the TT rate of exchange is the best available and does not change by amount (currently 35.72) so if you were not getting the best exchange rate there were fees involved. The .25% is after conversion so is not a fee based on your remittance currency or charged to your home bank - it is just less baht in your pocket here. There is also normally a corespondent bank fee as few banks have direct connections to Thai banks - but that will be a deduction in original transferred amount getting to Thailand.

[hawker9000]

That is a non answer - the TT rate of exchange is the best available and does not change by amount (currently 35.72) so if you were not getting the best exchange rate there were fees involved. The .25% is after conversion so is not a fee based on your remittance currency or charged to your home bank - it is just less baht in your pocket here. There is also normally a corespondent bank fee as few banks have direct connections to Thai banks - but that will be a deduction in original transferred amount getting to Thailand.

Nope. No correspondent bank fee either, although there used to be one: it was .25%. Eliminated by Fidelity about 2 years ago. (It was to JP Morgan Chase, I believe.)

I would be interested to see the actual Kbank link (rather than the excerpted screenshot).

[Pib]

Also, financial institutions executing such transfers from the U.S. are required by Dodd-Frank rules to inquire of the receiving foreign bank and then report to the customer any such fees (as well as their own, of course). Unless Kbank is lying to them, they're reporting no fees.

Not totally correct. The rules allow a lot of leeway, especially for international transfers where the sending bank has no control or knowledge of what fees/taxes might be applied along the way or on the receiving in. See below....note the last two statements which I bolded.

What are the new federal protections for consumers who send money internationally? updated 11/1/2013

Summary

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has issued rules to protect consumers who send money electronically to foreign countries. These transactions are called “remittance transfers.” The new rules take effect on October 28, 2013. More details on the rule are available at our regulations page.

Background

A “remittance transfer” is an electronic transfer of money from a consumer in the United States to a person or business in a foreign country. It can include transfers from retail “money transmitters” as well as banks and credit unions that transfer funds through wire transfers, automated clearing house (ACH) transactions, or other methods.

Consumers in the United States send billions of dollars in remittance transfers each year. Up to now, federal consumer protection rules have not applied to most of these transfers. The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act changed that by establishing new standards with respect to remittance transfer and authorizing the Bureau to issue implementing regulations.

Disclosures

The rules generally require companies to give disclosures to consumers before they pay for the remittance transfers. The disclosures must contain:

• The exchange rate.
• Fees and taxes collected by the companies.
• Fees charged by the companies’ agents abroad and intermediary institutions.
• The amount of money expected to be delivered abroad, not including certain fees charged to the recipient or foreign taxes.
• If appropriate, a disclaimer that additional fees and foreign taxes may apply.

[wooloomooloo]

The transfer fee from HSBC UK is GBP 4 per transaction, the receiving charge is typically under THB 500, there are no intermediary charges. Cost effective enough if done say twice a year and reliant thereafter on local Thai banks.

Whether there are intermediary charges depends on what bank you use in Thailand, ie whether your Thai bank is a correspondent bank of your foreign bank.

In the case I cited, HSBC UK, there is no intermediary.

There is, albeit HSBC Bangkok (Swift: HSBCTHBK).

[Pib]

That is a non answer - the TT rate of exchange is the best available and does not change by amount (currently 35.72) so if you were not getting the best exchange rate there were fees involved. The .25% is after conversion so is not a fee based on your remittance currency or charged to your home bank - it is just less baht in your pocket here. There is also normally a corespondent bank fee as few banks have direct connections to Thai banks - but that will be a deduction in original transferred amount getting to Thailand.

Nope. No correspondent bank fee either, although there used to be one: it was .25%. Eliminated by Fidelity about 2 years ago. (It was to JP Morgan Chase, I believe.)

I would be interested to see the actual Kbank link (rather than the excerpted screenshot).

K-bank does not do a great job in disclosing all their fees on the website...plus, the fee structure sheets provided in English are less than what they provide in Thai. To find out many of the fees you must contact the bank personally and hope they understand the fee you are asking about. The snapshot was taken from their Foreign Currency Deposit webpage which did happen to mention their receiving fee in English...here's the Link...look at the very bottom of the document.

And here's a link to a ThaiVisa post from 2012 which shows a K-bank email response identifying the 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) fee for inbound foreign remittances.

This fee is applied "before posting" to your Kbank account and does not reflect anywhere on it. This fee is common across Thai banks although some do apply just a flat fee like say Bt350, Bt500, etc...but most have the 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max)...not much competition within the Thai Bankers Association.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Pib

[chiang mai]

The transfer fee from HSBC UK is GBP 4 per transaction, the receiving charge is typically under THB 500, there are no intermediary charges. Cost effective enough if done say twice a year and reliant thereafter on local Thai banks.

Whether there are intermediary charges depends on what bank you use in Thailand, ie whether your Thai bank is a correspondent bank of your foreign bank.

In the case I cited, HSBC UK, there is no intermediary.

There is, albeit HSBC Bangkok (Swift: HSBCTHBK).

The definition of an intermediary bank is a third party that is used to facilitate an international transfer, a bank that is separate from the sending and the receiving bank and one to whom a separate fee is payable for their service. HSBC is not an intermediary or correspondent bank for HSBC!

[siam2007]

Countries like India and Bangladesh do not have an ATM charge at all. After all the banks have many ways of benefiting from liquidity

Asian countries with a high tourist quota such as Malaysia and Indonesia don't have either

[WorkingTourist]

[…] hardly conducive to its tourist campaigns, given those are the people who will be most affected

Hate to break it to you, but those campaigns are not made because they think your presence here improves the country. They want you to pump money into the Thai economy, which the ATM fee for foreign cards is part of.

[roo860]

Is anyone getting bored with this thread? Going round in circles.

[55Jay]

Your right. It's a done deal. Get over it.

Sent from my GT-I8150 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pib]

Yea...start preparing for a Bt220 fee...any forecasts on how soon that occurs...before the end of 2016 maybe?

[Nerone]

Try to show the atm your thai driving licence, it may works

[wooloomooloo]

The transfer fee from HSBC UK is GBP 4 per transaction, the receiving charge is typically under THB 500, there are no intermediary charges. Cost effective enough if done say twice a year and reliant thereafter on local Thai banks.

Whether there are intermediary charges depends on what bank you use in Thailand, ie whether your Thai bank is a correspondent bank of your foreign bank.

In the case I cited, HSBC UK, there is no intermediary.

There is, albeit HSBC Bangkok (Swift: HSBCTHBK).

The definition of an intermediary bank is a third party that is used to facilitate an international transfer, a bank that is separate from the sending and the receiving bank and one to whom a separate fee is payable for their service. HSBC is not an intermediary or correspondent bank for HSBC!

They are a correspondent for HSBC UK (Swift: MIDLGB22). HSBC UK clear their THB through HSBC Bangkok. Therefore correspondent/intermediary of HSBC UK.

HSBC UK wouldn't have a correspondent for THB if they cleared their own THB, but they don't.

[chiang mai]

The transfer fee from HSBC UK is GBP 4 per transaction, the receiving charge is typically under THB 500, there are no intermediary charges. Cost effective enough if done say twice a year and reliant thereafter on local Thai banks.

Whether there are intermediary charges depends on what bank you use in Thailand, ie whether your Thai bank is a correspondent bank of your foreign bank.

In the case I cited, HSBC UK, there is no intermediary.

There is, albeit HSBC Bangkok (Swift: HSBCTHBK).

The definition of an intermediary bank is a third party that is used to facilitate an international transfer, a bank that is separate from the sending and the receiving bank and one to whom a separate fee is payable for their service. HSBC is not an intermediary or correspondent bank for HSBC!

They are a correspondent for HSBC UK (Swift: MIDLGB22). HSBC UK clear their THB through HSBC Bangkok. Therefore correspondent/intermediary of HSBC UK.

HSBC UK wouldn't have a correspondent for THB if they cleared their own THB, but they don't.

HSBC BKK is a branch of HSBC hence it is part of the sending bank, it's not a corespondent bank, it's not a receiving bank, it's a branch of the sending bank! The fact that HSBC chooses to manage customer forex transactions in a specific way is irrelevant. But most importantly, the discussion in this thread is about fees and charges and not the organization and internal processes of global HSBC. Within the context of this discussion, there are no intermediary banking charges when transferring funds via HSBC to a number of banks in Thailand, including UOB, CIMB Bangkok Bank and SCB.

[tropo]

The definition of an intermediary bank is a third party that is used to facilitate an international transfer, a bank that is separate from the sending and the receiving bank and one to whom a separate fee is payable for their service. HSBC is not an intermediary or correspondent bank for HSBC!

Yes, which amounts to quite a high fee in some cases. I've paid $30 for a corresponding bank plus the original $25 wire fee.

[tropo]

I tried 2 TMB ATM's today in Pattaya. Both were still charging 180 baht.

[Naam]

The definition of an intermediary bank is a third party that is used to facilitate an international transfer, a bank that is separate from the sending and the receiving bank and one to whom a separate fee is payable for their service. HSBC is not an intermediary or correspondent bank for HSBC!

Yes, which amounts to quite a high fee in some cases. I've paid $30 for a corresponding bank plus the original $25 wire fee.

a negligible fee if you transfer once a year $100k.

[dabhand]

I tried 2 TMB ATM's today in Pattaya. Both were still charging 180 baht.

I took cash from an SCB ATM yesterday.

The screen indicated Bt180 but the receipt showed a Bt200 fee

[Berkshire]

[…] hardly conducive to its tourist campaigns, given those are the people who will be most affected

Hate to break it to you, but those campaigns are not made because they think your presence here improves the country. They want you to pump money into the Thai economy, which the ATM fee for foreign cards is part of.

I've been around many, many visitors/tourists to the Kingdom and I honestly can't remember one complaining about ATM fees. This is clearly a cheap-charlie issue with expats who haven't figured out how to open a Thai bank account.

[wooloomooloo]

The transfer fee from HSBC UK is GBP 4 per transaction, the receiving charge is typically under THB 500, there are no intermediary charges. Cost effective enough if done say twice a year and reliant thereafter on local Thai banks.

Whether there are intermediary charges depends on what bank you use in Thailand, ie whether your Thai bank is a correspondent bank of your foreign bank.

In the case I cited, HSBC UK, there is no intermediary.

There is, albeit HSBC Bangkok (Swift: HSBCTHBK).

The definition of an intermediary bank is a third party that is used to facilitate an international transfer, a bank that is separate from the sending and the receiving bank and one to whom a separate fee is payable for their service. HSBC is not an intermediary or correspondent bank for HSBC!

They are a correspondent for HSBC UK (Swift: MIDLGB22). HSBC UK clear their THB through HSBC Bangkok. Therefore correspondent/intermediary of HSBC UK.

HSBC UK wouldn't have a correspondent for THB if they cleared their own THB, but they don't.

HSBC BKK is a branch of HSBC hence it is part of the sending bank, it's not a corespondent bank, it's not a receiving bank, it's a branch of the sending bank! The fact that HSBC chooses to manage customer forex transactions in a specific way is irrelevant. But most importantly, the discussion in this thread is about fees and charges and not the organization and internal processes of global HSBC. Within the context of this discussion, there are no intermediary banking charges when transferring funds via HSBC to a number of banks in Thailand, including UOB, CIMB Bangkok Bank and SCB.

I mentioned it as you gave incorrect advice.

[Pib]

[…] hardly conducive to its tourist campaigns, given those are the people who will be most affected

Hate to break it to you, but those campaigns are not made because they think your presence here improves the country. They want you to pump money into the Thai economy, which the ATM fee for foreign cards is part of.

I've been around many, many visitors/tourists to the Kingdom and I honestly can't remember one complaining about ATM fees. This is clearly a cheap-charlie issue with expats who haven't figured out how to open a Thai bank account.

Or expats (cheap charlie or non-cheap charlie) who don't like paying high ATM fees whether they have Thai bank accounts or not. Place me in that crowd as I don't like paying high ATM fees (and I have Thai bank accounts). Fortunately, my no foreign transaction debit cards also reimburse ATM fees, but I still don't like such a high Bt200 fee knowing it's focused on expats, tourist or not, having a Thai bank account or not.

And when it comes to tourists you've associated with not complaining about the high ATM fee, well, when tourists are on vacation in foreign countries most will generally just expect (bend over) and accept the many high fees/costs incurred during a vacation. Plus they just want to have a good time and not worry too much about costs before they go back to the grind of working.

[JDGRUEN]

It is not for high rollers... but if you are an American and take out via ATM $1,999.00 each month in Baht equivalent or less... then the AMEX Bluebird card is for you... Bangkok Bank charges only 50 Baht for ATM withdraws using the AMEX Bluebird (to date)... And you get TOP Dollar to Baht exchange rate that can be expected for small transactions... A few days ago I got 9000 Baht and the exchange rate was 35+ Baht per Dollar. Bluebird charges $2.50 for an ATM fee.

But 50 Baht plus $2.50 is not too bad...

The AMEX Bluebird has many many features that takes it far beyond a mere ATM Card... so go read ... bluebird.com -- you will be impressed.

This Bluebird Card is also a GREAT way to transfer money between Thailand and the U.S. via Family Cards or Card to Card transactions with any other Bluebird Card holder.

OH -- Must add -- I forgot -- AMEX Bluebird .. NO foreign transaction fees..

Edited November 10, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[JDGRUEN]

The reason these arguments go in CIRCLES is that there are at least two sides - perhaps three sides who have no idea about the situation of the other two or three and probably do not care ... There are some relatively wealthy Expats on this thread -- then some a little bit wealthy -- then some -- maybe quite a few who are on fixed incomes - pensions ... not a big pension -- but when managed well they can enjoy a good life in Thailand.

Thus -- increasing ATM fees means a lot more to one group than the others... You wealthy and near wealthy Expats are the ones who need to take a CHILL PILL and stop demeaning those who are on fixed incomes -- because THAT is what you are doing.

Did it ever occur to some of you folks who look down your nose at the rest of us ... that there are MANY TVF Expats who are living on 45-50-55-60-65 Thousand Baht each month ... And -- it is not worth setting up a Thai Bank account ...

And BEFORE one of you makes a JERK Remark -- Those who have incomes in the range I just mentioned CAN LIVE HERE quite well - but when Thai Banks increase the ATM fees - it does make a difference to these Expats ...

But PLEASE - Go about your Caviar Lifestyles and look down your long noses at the rest of us ... I would not want to hurt your feelings...

Oh and Please -- don't forget to check out your SNOB --- oh excuse me - I mean your Schwab Accounts before going to bed ...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It really doesn't matter what one's income is, high or low, when it comes to foreign card ATM fees charged by Thai banks.

If you're earning your money in Thailand exclusively, then you don't need to worry about foreign card ATM fees, generally speaking.

But if you're getting some or all of your income from outside Thailand, then foreign card ATM fees are a legitimate concern.

The folks who earn their money here ought to at least have some understanding that not everyone is in their same situation, instead of spouting off repeatedly about opening Thai bank accounts -- which most of us with income from outside Thailand have already anyway.

I'm not poor, but I still take offense when a Thai bank wants to charge me an ATM fee that's getting to be almost double the price of what a typical bank in the U.S. would charge a Thai citizen using their Thai card in a U.S. ATM. It's just a ripoff, pure and simple.

[Naam]

That is a non answer - the TT rate of exchange is the best available and does not change by amount (currently 35.72) so if you were not getting the best exchange rate there were fees involved. The .25% is after conversion so is not a fee based on your remittance currency or charged to your home bank - it is just less baht in your pocket here. There is also normally a corespondent bank fee as few banks have direct connections to Thai banks - but that will be a deduction in original transferred amount getting to Thailand.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ because the published TT rate does not apply to all transferred amounts. Siam Commercial has always an open ear for negotiations when it concerns transfers of $/€ 50k or more. when i get a call "transfer arrived" i am usually offered 2-3 Satangs above TT and i manage +5-6 Satangs. in a rare case when i swifted some "serious" money a couple of years ago because i bought two very expensive cars i managed +11 Satangs.

[Tywais]

A bunch of off topic and flame posts removed. Plus replies to deleted.

[lopburi3]

That is a non answer - the TT rate of exchange is the best available and does not change by amount (currently 35.72) so if you were not getting the best exchange rate there were fees involved. The .25% is after conversion so is not a fee based on your remittance currency or charged to your home bank - it is just less baht in your pocket here. There is also normally a corespondent bank fee as few banks have direct connections to Thai banks - but that will be a deduction in original transferred amount getting to Thailand.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ because the published TT rate does not apply to all transferred amounts. Siam Commercial has always an open ear for negotiations when it concerns transfers of $/€ 50k or more. when i get a call "transfer arrived" i am usually offered 2-3 Satangs above TT and i manage +5-6 Satangs. in a rare case when i swifted some "serious" money a couple of years ago because i bought two very expensive cars i managed +11 Satangs.

Indeed for the large transfers there can be some room for bargaining but they are not published available rates - but this thread was about the small transfers (ATM) where such sums are not in play (even if relatively small for some).

[WorkingTourist]

That is a non answer - the TT rate of exchange is the best available and does not change by amount […]

i [not so] humbly beg to differ because the published TT rate does not apply to all transferred amounts […]

Seconded, Krungthai even states this on their site: Amount greater than $10,000 or equivalent, please contact Sales and Structuring Team.

The times I have transferred >$10k the better rate was given to me automatically.

Edited November 11, 2015 by WorkingTourist

[stament]

is that for transfers in from outside the Kingdom? Does anyone know if Bangkok Bank do likewise as I need to transfer about USD 30k+