Scenes of horror as a Paris night becomes a bloodbath

[kiwikeith]

Obama said 'Those Who Think That They Can Terrorize the People of France or the Values That They Stand for Are Wrong'

Really Mr Obama, is that a serious statement of are you just making jokes again?

I would imagine a lot of people in Paris feel terrorized, especially those who have just lost loved ones or friends!

Were I any country right now, a message from Obama would be the last thing I would want right now.

What an utterly disgusting and reprehensible individual it is.

Sorry to say I agree, This act has been coming since Obama, the CIA and Saudi, Turkey developed ISIS.

Arms dealers are criminals selling to ISIS from stolen booty through Turkey.

ISIS fighting with American arms. Obama is sick,Americans know this their country is run by loonatic lobyists.

A monster out of control, Obama shown up by Russian air strikes, nobody with a degree of sanity can despute that this monster needs to be delt to.

The refugee problem is out of control caused by these psycopathic idiots that think they can control the world with terror by creating nothing but chaos in the middle east.

Sadly every expat I know in LOS is worried seriously.

Unfortunately the media in general is controlled by these sicko psyco idiots.

Thanks for Thai Visa to have an open mind.

[micmichd]

What happened to the much-vaunted French intelligence service? Were they all sitting on the Maginot Line eating cheese off white linen cloths? Surely the planning for an attack of this size and complexity must have sent up some smoke signals?

There's always a 'known' extremist involved is there not? If you are looking for solutions look at what infuriates the liberal-left the most,- they hate Gitmo and want it closed, hence the answer is internment for all known radicals. Devil's Island perhaps.

You can be glad that Forum rules don't allow an adequate personal answer.

[NeverSure]

It,s gonna get worse ! Until our leaders wake up, that is !

It,s gonna get worse ! Until our leaders the people wake up, that is !

The leaders won't and haven't helped anyone.

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory post and several replies to it has been removed.

[SKguy]

I look forward to the 1,000's of Muslims that will march openly in protest against this atrocity.

I wouldn't hold your breath!!

[Thaidream]

The speech by Nigel Farage of the UK makes much sense. Especially after these attacks, the UK may just vote for leaving the EU. There is no way the UK will ditch the Pound and adopt the Euro. There is a recognition that the UK has to get control of its borders or face the same problem that mainland Europe is facing.. Unfettered entrance into the UK across the channel has to be controlled by the UK not the European Union.

[tropo]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

Edited November 15, 2015 by tropo

[swerver]

What else is new?

France was forewarned and this forewarning BS goes back as far as Pearl Harbor, no need to go any further because there is a century of these shenanigans on the records in the domain.

​Forewarned is forearmed:

Parish March on Oct. 2 predicted a French Style 9/11, "un 11 septembre a la francaise".

None of the early news reports on November 13^th, mentioned the fact that a large scale and well organized terrorist attack had been predicted. The title of the media report is: “Intelligence services fear a 9/11 French Style”

Yet the October report stated that these forthcoming attacks were difficult to avoid: “impossible a dejouer”, suggesting that French intelligence is inept and unable to prevent a forthcoming catastrophe.

The threat is real, according to Judge Trévédic in an interview with Paris Match. ”The attacks in France will be on a scale comparable to 9/11″.

What was the role of this media hype? Nothing but create an atmosphere of fear an intimidation?

And the sheeple keep voting them in power and not only ones but multiple repeats. But then really are the sheeple doing this, hardly, with electronic voting the clique in the drivers seat has full control (manipulating) the voting outcome they want.

Waiting for the next disaster.

[Mosha]

More to come or 1 that was thwarted?

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/paris-police-tracking-black-car-carrying-four-armed-people-after-terror-attacks/ar-BBn00pr?li=AA9SkIr

[yogi100]

many anti-Islam they take advantage of such occasions to say: look how this ideology? look how Islam is?

if we use a little logical thinking to come up with a reasonable conclusion we'll find the true that these killers are highly condemned and accused in Islam and from the holy book of Quran, whoever killed one single innocent person same as killed everyone,

However, you racist and anti-Islam keep trying all your best, you will never cause any harm to this the most and fastest religion that keeps spreading over the glob,

this terror activity is first condemned and most accused in Islam,

these vagabond dogs they may rest in the hell forever, they are not belong to humanity or any religion,

What you say is false.

Muhammad in the second part of the Qur'an (Koran of Medina) clearly calls for the killing of infidels almost every page. All us therefore, and particularly the 128 of Paris.

4.89: "They would like as their sombriez yourself in disbelief that you're at the same point (sawa ') than them. Do not take them for friends as they will not have emigrated for the cause of God, and if they turn away, you grab them and kill them wherever you find them. And do not take them as allies or supporters for! "

4.90: "[kill them wherever you find them] with the exception of those who visit a tribe (qawn) to which you are bound by a treaty or those who come find you a heavy heart at the thought of you fight or fight their tribe; if God had willed, He would have made you masters and they would have fought you. Also, if they avoid you, do not fight you and offer you their submission, God will not allow you to show their hostility. "

etc ...

Like it or not Islamist murderers of Christians or Jews are simply good Muslims.

Is why we are in a complete impasse with that.

Is it really fair to quote what Muhammad said and then to apply that to all peoples who embrace Islam?

Would that not be the same as painting anyone, with a broad brush, who claims to be an American, or French, or British, and apply what all their leaders said and did throughout history? ... to say that these people are born into their native lands and that automatically pins upon them all the faults and failures of their county's past?

What about the Bible, or the Talmud, or the Torah, or any other religious writing of significance?...

Can you say the same about Christians or Jews or Catholics, or Buddhists, or any others, regardless of the voracity or sterility of the writings ascribed to that belief or view?

As I stated (suggested/implied) in another post... I believe that each individual is above his or her religion, and only the feeble or weak ones ascribe to his or her own religion until they reach such a time as to be able to recognize what is right or wrong or acceptable or unacceptable to his or her own brother or sister in this life.

Religion is a scapegoat and moreover an excuse. 80% of the the peoples are basically good and 20% want to keep the pot stirred... yet less than 20% of that 20% have the monopoly on the media and the broadcasting to make it seem to the 80% that it is the 80% who feel such a way... when in fact it is not true.

I trust I am making some sense herein, yes?

You are correct in that Muhammad may have said this or that, but I would rather you give leeway to those who embrace Islam and sort it out for themselves and present to us their own individual views on this.

I would wager that of all the films of all the Islamic bad guys you have seen would not comprise more than... say... 15 to 20% of the Islamic religion.

Moreover, I would state the same about those who embrace the Bible and other writings of significance.

But if you are going to point out books and their content and the corrosive and threatening and violent things they promote to all mankind, then I would respectfully ask that you not stop merely at the Koran of Medina, but also move on to all other religious writings.

It simply is insincere and disingenuous to do this with focus on only one item and neglect to mention the other items which play a major role in today's problems, and to which that 20% embrace with fanatical malignancy.

I have yet to walk into a bar and strike up a chat with a Muslim with C4 strapped to his hide and the sweat beading on his forehead in anticipation of shouting "Allah Akbar!", or a Jew with an AK47 popping kids outside on the street as we swill down the beers, or a Mormon ready to bludgeon someone for being a non-believer. This statement is meant to be humorous, in case no one gets it.

Religion is a crutch and moreover an indoctrination to keep mankind crawling on all fours and bleating to an invisible friend, instead of walking upright and shouting at the sky to anyone out there to come down and meet him (man) on realistic terms... terms that do not require abject and disgusting worship to any bloodthirsty creature.

I guess what I am saying,as an agnostic, is that I feel that I am better than any god or any figure in any written manuscript, simply because I have sinned (if you want to call it that) yet those books I mentioned also proclaim those heroes and heroins as having done the same, but they get credit for it and I get the poopy end of the stick.

Just my views, mate!... just my views.

I guess they are all similar.

But which one goes 'BOOM' all too frequently?

And then claims responsibility as a badge of honour?

I agree, I dont hear of Christians or Jews running around with c4 strapped to their bodies to blow up a bar full of innocent people.

The only thing I would add is that if real Muslims do not do such things and do not condone it then where are they? I have seen posts of Muslim people applauding the bombers for killing French people so where is the overwhelming condemnation of the bombers from the Muslim community who claim to be people of peace?

This cycle of violence will never end unless the Muslim people crush these extremists themselves,, the alternative is terrorist bombings, followed by a military response, followed by more terrorist bombings,, round and around and around.

I can see a world where the West make the practice of Islam illegal in their countries if this carries on, undermining the whole point of freedom.

If anyone has seen public condemnation from the Muslim community please post it.

In reference to your last comment...

Do you have any Muslim friends? Or are you connected with any Muslims on social media?

Probably not.

Do you have any Muslim friends? Or are you connected with any Muslims on social media?

It's unlikely that many of us Westerners do. We're steadily learning to fear them, distrust them and avoid them like the plague especially since they might explode!

Englishmen who live in the culturally enriched parts of Bradford and East London should have plenty of experience regarding such matters.

[simple1]

Now what? They will make some peace marches, light some candles, tweet some pathetic peace hashtags and after 6 months…boom…another one!

I think the next things is that europeans are going to rise up on their own to take back their streets….just watch.

Its all building up to an us vs them confrontation.

"I think the next things is that europeans are going to rise up on their own to take back their streets…"

Fight with what? The Europeans are all disarmed, just like their governments want them to be. The libs have tricked the citizens into believing that the governments should be the only ones with arms and that the governments would protect the people.

That Lie is coming home to roost. The governments are attacking their people with sea changes in culture and demographics and are utterly failing to protect society or individuals.

I agree that the people have to rise up and protect themselves, but they lack the means. The Lie that governments should be in charge rather than the truth which is that the people should rule the government has ruined Europe.

This Lie has left the people to be subjects of the government, totally powerless to do anything.

I weep for the people of Europe.

Again defeatist reactionary commentary that in effect is dancing like a puppet to the strings being pulled by Islamist ideology.

Defeatist? I'm ready to fight. Let those terrorists try their shit in my neighborhood where a gun would poke out of every window and they'd be mowed down in the streets.

LOL

[Kitsune]

U2 came to pay respect to Bataclan victims

[nontabury]

All the politicians who have voted for mass immigration of muslims should be taken out and shot only then will we be safe.

I do believe it was fench citizens who did this. I can stand corrected tho

So you want us to believe that these filthy terrorists are of Gaelic origin.

I dont want u to believe anything but the facts. I dont know the facts as yet, who does?

But reports are the terrorists are french citizens, nothing to do with refugees.

How can u blame refugees running from isis for what a few french citizens did?

I would hope, and I mean it sincerely, that all refugees are kept track of, investigated, processed. Those that arenot genuinely refugees fleeing isis are sent packing. The remainder treated as humanely as anyone of any religion fleeing isis.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last- Winston Churchill.

[Thaidream]

I have had Muslim acquaintances while living in America. They constantly attempted to convert me to their religion and would never condemn violence perpetrated by terrorists. Their frame of reference is completely different. In their own mind, they believe Western civilization is an enemy of Islam and must be destroyed. The believe the West has invade the Middle East to control its resources and destroy Islam. No amount of reasoning will change their minds. I have a former step daughter married to a Saudi. She had to convert to Islam and wears the garb. She is not 'allowed' to visit Thailand-ever. I met her husband in the US and his arrogance is beyond belief. Again, this overwhelming attempt to push Islam on me and the World. He scoffs at all other religions and believes we are infidels. She says nothing and follows him blindly.

[stephenterry]

By now, IS will recognise that their new terror tactics are working, and will probably up the tempo to hit other countries. It is the job of the European countries to publicly play-down the horror and alarmist rhetoric, but to focus more on covert action to reduce the risk of other attacks.

What could happen is uninterrupted refugee flow into Europe is curtailed. That needs combined resources from all to succeed. Imams proclaiming hate against the West are deported from their host countries, and their mosques closed - with no legal recourse permitted. All Muslim no-go areas must be eliminated - that needs government approval to not restrict the law enforcement agencies in achieving this.

In other words an initial hard-line approach, with the eventual aim of building a non-secular (and safer) society from within. All very easy to say, but probably unattainable without joint collaboration at all levels, including funding such initiatives.

[JohnDodd]

It,s gonna get worse ! Until our leaders wake up, that is !

"Our" so called" leaders" are the problem.

[mcfish]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

The other way around actually, she would take a bullet for me, fiercely loyal woman. I was referring to the cartoons that directly insulted the imaginary one. All Muslims believe that its not acceptable. This situation again is different as there was no direct insult to Alah but just senseless killing and Im keen to see what her thoughts are although I imagine she would be horrified

[stephenterry]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

The other way around actually, she would take a bullet for me, fiercely loyal woman. I was referring to the cartoons that directly insulted the imaginary one. All Muslims believe that its not acceptable. This situation again is different as there was no direct insult to Alah but just senseless killing and Im keen to see what her thoughts are although I imagine she would be horrified

And I think she would, as have many other Muslims who feel for the French victims. But without actually condemning the attacks, maybe?

[mcfish]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

The other way around actually, she would take a bullet for me, fiercely loyal woman. I was referring to the cartoons that directly insulted the imaginary one. All Muslims believe that its not acceptable. This situation again is different as there was no direct insult to Alah but just senseless killing and Im keen to see what her thoughts are although I imagine she would be horrified

And I think she would, as have many other Muslims who feel for the French victims. But without actually condemning the attacks, maybe?

Possibly but her answer will effect our relationship if we end up being at opposite ends of the moral compass

[yogi100]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

It's a bit confusing, if she's 'extremely moderate' she should not only not condone them but should downright condemn them.

[Thaidream]

The ironic thing about all this is that those who kill in the name of religion actually believe they will be welcomed by their deity into eternal bliss. Whether one believes in a God or not- the normal image of a God is one who condemns violence and murder and wants all people to live in harmony and seek justice for all. I have read the Koran and can find no part of it that actually justifies or encourages what is now happening in the World. If Allah exists- these people will never see Him. What is needed is Islamic scholars, Imans, notable Muslims to speak out against this violence. Most of them appear impotent and afraid or are in league with the terrorists either directly or by omission.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Thaidream

[JohnDodd]

What else is new?

France was forewarned and this forewarning BS goes back as far as Pearl Harbor, no need to go any further because there is a century of these shenanigans on the records in the domain.

​Forewarned is forearmed:

Parish March on Oct. 2 predicted a French Style 9/11, "un 11 septembre a la francaise".

None of the early news reports on November 13^th, mentioned the fact that a large scale and well organized terrorist attack had been predicted. The title of the media report is: “Intelligence services fear a 9/11 French Style”

Yet the October report stated that these forthcoming attacks were difficult to avoid: “impossible a dejouer”, suggesting that French intelligence is inept and unable to prevent a forthcoming catastrophe.

The threat is real, according to Judge Trévédic in an interview with Paris Match. ”The attacks in France will be on a scale comparable to 9/11″.

What was the role of this media hype? Nothing but create an atmosphere of fear an intimidation?

And the sheeple keep voting them in power and not only ones but multiple repeats. But then really are the sheeple doing this, hardly, with electronic voting the clique in the drivers seat has full control (manipulating) the voting outcome they want.

Waiting for the next disaster.

Spot on, this info was available at globalresearch.ca.....however majority on this site are all msm/corporate media types.

[momtaz]

many anti-Islam they take advantage of such occasions to say: look how this ideology? look how Islam is?

if we use a little logical thinking to come up with a reasonable conclusion we'll find the true that these killers are highly condemned and accused in Islam and from the holy book of Quran, whoever killed one single innocent person same as killed everyone,

However, you racist and anti-Islam keep trying all your best, you will never cause any harm to this the most and fastest religion that keeps spreading over the glob,

this terror activity is first condemned and most accused in Islam,

these vagabond dogs they may rest in the hell forever, they are not belong to humanity or any religion,

What you say is false.

Muhammad in the second part of the Qur'an (Koran of Medina) clearly calls for the killing of infidels almost every page. All us therefore, and particularly the 128 of Paris.

4.89: "They would like as their sombriez yourself in disbelief that you're at the same point (sawa ') than them. Do not take them for friends as they will not have emigrated for the cause of God, and if they turn away, you grab them and kill them wherever you find them. And do not take them as allies or supporters for! "

4.90: "[kill them wherever you find them] with the exception of those who visit a tribe (qawn) to which you are bound by a treaty or those who come find you a heavy heart at the thought of you fight or fight their tribe; if God had willed, He would have made you masters and they would have fought you. Also, if they avoid you, do not fight you and offer you their submission, God will not allow you to show their hostility. "

etc ...

Like it or not Islamist murderers of Christians or Jews are simply good Muslims.

Is why we are in a complete impasse with that.

There is no such (Qur'an of Medinah)

The verse your trying to say: 4:89 have to read the full context to know what is the topic talking about, beside that the translation is not accurate as the native script,

Muslims when they established their regime in Spain, the minority of Jews who living there were given their full freedom to practice and teach their believe freely, while under the christian rulers before Islam they were not allowed, read the history about this,

Islam is a religion and open ideology for all, that's why most nations accepted,

if look around the world, there is no single country have no Muslim citizens, even to be a small minority, maybe except north Korea,

who adopted Islam in the west? have little search on google, youtube to see and listen them what they are saying,

these devil events are mastered by some bigger devil mind intelligence agencies to market a bad image about Islam and Muslims, and many narrow minded and blind heart people they absorb the trick to prove their hater feelings to Islam,

Like it or not, Islam is a religion of peace, and will keep spreading among the most intellectual westerners, because Islam ideology is based on logical thinking structure,

these devil terrors are not from Islam and never represent Islam, only to bring more blind dark hearts to campaign against Islam and accuse this action to blame it on Islam,

[houston]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

What does means the word Islamists in this context?

Any person believes in Islam and follow Islam is considered as an Islamist, right?

These bombing attackers, ISIS members and their similar types are just vagabond dogs, they do not know any thing about Islam, or what Islam saying, many of them who migrated from western countries they were deeply involved in vagabond life style, and suddenly get involved with these misguided vagabonds and get involved in these devil activities,, and the global propaganda takes the initiative to do the rest of the job by marketing their activities as Islamists and promoting the event to be counted on Islam in result, good job...!!!

Islam is a religion. Islamists or muslims are people who practice Islam religion.

ISIS is a Jihadist community, it's the radical branch of Islam, also called the Islam extremist.

Jihadist is people who do the Jihad. The Jihadist means the "islamic warrior" as described in the islamic book.

The Jihad is the quest to propagate Islam over the world and the application of the strict islamic law (charia law) for everybody.

The jihad was practiced by Islam in ancient time to get influence (conquest for territory, and so influence) against Boudist, then catholic. For this the Jihad is a part described in Islamic sacred bible, that made the ISIS radical branch of Islam to use the jihad for their extremist quest of expansion.

I think the history and the vocabulary is important. I will say ISIS is a radical branch of Islam and others are temperate branch of Islam.

That makes everybody sometimes confusing and misunderstanding, maybe not using the right terminology.

[micmichd]

many anti-Islam they take advantage of such occasions to say: look how this ideology? look how Islam is?

if we use a little logical thinking to come up with a reasonable conclusion we'll find the true that these killers are highly condemned and accused in Islam and from the holy book of Quran, whoever killed one single innocent person same as killed everyone,

However, you racist and anti-Islam keep trying all your best, you will never cause any harm to this the most and fastest religion that keeps spreading over the glob,

this terror activity is first condemned and most accused in Islam,

these vagabond dogs they may rest in the hell forever, they are not belong to humanity or any religion,

What you say is false.

Muhammad in the second part of the Qur'an (Koran of Medina) clearly calls for the killing of infidels almost every page. All us therefore, and particularly the 128 of Paris.

4.89: "They would like as their sombriez yourself in disbelief that you're at the same point (sawa ') than them. Do not take them for friends as they will not have emigrated for the cause of God, and if they turn away, you grab them and kill them wherever you find them. And do not take them as allies or supporters for! "

4.90: "[kill them wherever you find them] with the exception of those who visit a tribe (qawn) to which you are bound by a treaty or those who come find you a heavy heart at the thought of you fight or fight their tribe; if God had willed, He would have made you masters and they would have fought you. Also, if they avoid you, do not fight you and offer you their submission, God will not allow you to show their hostility. "

etc ...

Like it or not Islamist murderers of Christians or Jews are simply good Muslims.

Is why we are in a complete impasse with that.

Is it really fair to quote what Muhammad said and then to apply that to all peoples who embrace Islam?

Would that not be the same as painting anyone, with a broad brush, who claims to be an American, or French, or British, and apply what all their leaders said and did throughout history? ... to say that these people are born into their native lands and that automatically pins upon them all the faults and failures of their county's past?

What about the Bible, or the Talmud, or the Torah, or any other religious writing of significance?...

Can you say the same about Christians or Jews or Catholics, or Buddhists, or any others, regardless of the voracity or sterility of the writings ascribed to that belief or view?

As I stated (suggested/implied) in another post... I believe that each individual is above his or her religion, and only the feeble or weak ones ascribe to his or her own religion until they reach such a time as to be able to recognize what is right or wrong or acceptable or unacceptable to his or her own brother or sister in this life.

Religion is a scapegoat and moreover an excuse. 80% of the the peoples are basically good and 20% want to keep the pot stirred... yet less than 20% of that 20% have the monopoly on the media and the broadcasting to make it seem to the 80% that it is the 80% who feel such a way... when in fact it is not true.

I trust I am making some sense herein, yes?

You are correct in that Muhammad may have said this or that, but I would rather you give leeway to those who embrace Islam and sort it out for themselves and present to us their own individual views on this.

I would wager that of all the films of all the Islamic bad guys you have seen would not comprise more than... say... 15 to 20% of the Islamic religion.

Moreover, I would state the same about those who embrace the Bible and other writings of significance.

But if you are going to point out books and their content and the corrosive and threatening and violent things they promote to all mankind, then I would respectfully ask that you not stop merely at the Koran of Medina, but also move on to all other religious writings.

It simply is insincere and disingenuous to do this with focus on only one item and neglect to mention the other items which play a major role in today's problems, and to which that 20% embrace with fanatical malignancy.

I have yet to walk into a bar and strike up a chat with a Muslim with C4 strapped to his hide and the sweat beading on his forehead in anticipation of shouting "Allah Akbar!", or a Jew with an AK47 popping kids outside on the street as we swill down the beers, or a Mormon ready to bludgeon someone for being a non-believer. This statement is meant to be humorous, in case no one gets it.

Religion is a crutch and moreover an indoctrination to keep mankind crawling on all fours and bleating to an invisible friend, instead of walking upright and shouting at the sky to anyone out there to come down and meet him (man) on realistic terms... terms that do not require abject and disgusting worship to any bloodthirsty creature.

I guess what I am saying,as an agnostic, is that I feel that I am better than any god or any figure in any written manuscript, simply because I have sinned (if you want to call it that) yet those books I mentioned also proclaim those heroes and heroins as having done the same, but they get credit for it and I get the poopy end of the stick.

Just my views, mate!... just my views.

I guess they are all similar.

But which one goes 'BOOM' all too frequently?

And then claims responsibility as a badge of honour?

I agree, I dont hear of Christians or Jews running around with c4 strapped to their bodies to blow up a bar full of innocent people.

The only thing I would add is that if real Muslims do not do such things and do not condone it then where are they? I have seen posts of Muslim people applauding the bombers for killing French people so where is the overwhelming condemnation of the bombers from the Muslim community who claim to be people of peace?

This cycle of violence will never end unless the Muslim people crush these extremists themselves,, the alternative is terrorist bombings, followed by a military response, followed by more terrorist bombings,, round and around and around.

I can see a world where the West make the practice of Islam illegal in their countries if this carries on, undermining the whole point of freedom.

If anyone has seen public condemnation from the Muslim community please post it.

In reference to your last comment...

Do you have any Muslim friends? Or are you connected with any Muslims on social media?

Probably not.

Do you have any Muslim friends? Or are you connected with any Muslims on social media?

It's unlikely that many of us Westerners do. We're steadily learning to fear them, distrust them and avoid them like the plague especially since they might explode!

Englishmen who live in the culturally enriched parts of Bradford and East London should have plenty of experience regarding such matters.

I have Muslim friends.

[SKguy]

here we have the results of letting in 1000000 so-called refugees into europe.

kick merkel out of office fast....

What nonsense. The refugees are fleeing from the same enemy that committed this atrocity.

So you don't suppose jihadists like those who perpetrated the atrocities in Paris are amongst them?

[tropo]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

The other way around actually, she would take a bullet for me, fiercely loyal woman. I was referring to the cartoons that directly insulted the imaginary one. All Muslims believe that its not acceptable. This situation again is different as there was no direct insult to Alah but just senseless killing and Im keen to see what her thoughts are although I imagine she would be horrified

But who's more important in her life? You or Allah? She may only take a bullet for you until you step out of line. You've also got her family members (probably a big family) to consider. You've got time - she's only a GF at this stage, right?

Most of us enjoy free speech in our lives. How free are you to express your own opinions?

Edited November 15, 2015 by tropo

[tropo]

I have Muslim friends.

You think you do - until you inadvertently laugh at the wrong cartoon.

[momtaz]

Even after this latest atrocity the usual apologists still will not condemn the real cause, which is the ideology Islam itself, a vile ideology of violence, retribution, expansion and revenge. One of the reasons given for the slaughter was 'insults to the prophet' oh boo hoo the war monger and pedophile who has inspired so much slaughter down the centuries insulted, who would have thought it.

Well done, Jacky.

Yet again you have proven my point for me!

This time the point being that certain people lack the intellectual capacity to realise that their ignorant hate only acts as recruiting propaganda for the terrorists!

When will you start accepting the fact that IS and other Islamic terrorists do not represent Islam and Muslims?

If they do, then why are they condemned by Muslims worldwide?

If they do, why are Muslim soldiers fighting them, and dying, as we sit at our keyboards and pontificate?

many anti-Islam they take advantage of such occasions to say: look how this ideology? look how Islam is?

if we use a little logical thinking to come up with a reasonable conclusion we'll find the true that these killers are highly condemned and accused in Islam and from the holy book of Quran, whoever killed one single innocent person same as killed everyone,

However, you racist and anti-Islam keep trying all your best, you will never cause any harm to this the most and fastest religion that keeps spreading over the glob,

this terror activity is first condemned and most accused in Islam,

these vagabond dogs they may rest in the hell forever, they are not belong to humanity or any religion,

Momtaz...a quiet word....you do realise this book was written by a bloke who claims to have spoken to his god?

Why could only he hear his god and nobody else.?

yes you are right...mental illness, often diagnosed as schizophrenia.

You aren't alone ..the mormons have a similar nutter preaching the same stuff too...albeit with less violence

It's what we call a sect old mate...bit like Charlie Manson and his brainless followers.

But I have a feeling my words are wasted on you.

Have a nice jihad.

.

First of all, I do respect you opinion, your idea,, to say anything you want to say,

Also, I give my self the right to say that your words are not true,

so we are discussing, everyone can speak his mind to express his thoughts..

this is so beautiful, if we can discuss respectfully in logical manner, away from emotional interference and profanity, or accusing others indirectly,

[mcfish]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

The other way around actually, she would take a bullet for me, fiercely loyal woman. I was referring to the cartoons that directly insulted the imaginary one. All Muslims believe that its not acceptable. This situation again is different as there was no direct insult to Alah but just senseless killing and Im keen to see what her thoughts are although I imagine she would be horrified

But who's more important in her life? You or Allah? She may only take a bullet for you until you step out of line. You've also got her family members (probably a big family) to consider. You've got time - she's only a GF at this stage, right?

Most of us enjoy free speech in our lives. How free are you to express your own opinions?

Yeah just a GF, never met the family they would not approve and there will never be marriage. Can say what I like accept talk about Alah because she gets upset so I leave it alone but like I said her view on yesterdays events will determine which way the relationship will go