UK Residents in Thailand - The harsh truth about the NHS service

[abrahamzvi]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

Actually over 4,000,000 in the UK did NOT vote Tory but voted UKIP. I voted for UKIP from Thailand using a proxy voter quite legally but sadly the electoral system in the UK only gave the UKIP one parliamentary seat.

IMHO I think that at the next general election, The Labour party if they are still under Jeremy Corbyn will not win, the Tories who will not be under Big Dave Cameron will lose a lot of seats, the Lib/Dems under Tim Fallon (I had to look who it was on Wikipedia) shot their bolt last time probably don't stand much chance either. The SNP under Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond probably won't do that much out of Scotland.

To me that leaves Nigel Farage with UKIP, the Green Party under Natalie Bennett and a hodgepodge of other parties with no clear ideas or directions to fight the Tories.

For myself I truly believe that if UKIP don't win they will be a very strong opposition party to the winners.

Then perhaps things may start to get better for us expats and for the UK as a whole.

[partington]

UK residents in Thailand

How can someone be a UK resident if he's living in Thailand?

Did you mean a UK citizen resident in Thailand?

It must be a real challenge for citizens of nanny states to live in a world where you have to pay for things yourself.

Imagine you'll be one of those expats who stiffs a Thai hospital, which means the rest of us have to pay more to cover the costs of deadbeats.

You can be classified as a UK Resident if you own a house in the UK. The House is termed as your Home and Home is the key phrase. You don't have to live in it, only prove that you own it and you are then entitled to NHS Treatment. I am in the process of buying a house in the UK, which I will rent out so I have a reasonable health care safety net in the UK. I also have sufficient income to pay up to 500,000 baht health care here in Thailand (but at a healthy 71 cannot get Insurance), which should cover any immediate needs. I also have a Niece who is about to qualify as a Doctor in Thailand so will also have very good "connections" if need be. If you live in "the Wild West" you need to take steps to take care of yourself.

This is really completely incorrect.

Merely owning a house in the UK does not in any way classify you as a resident, and does NOT entitle you to NHS treatment. I'm not sure where you got this idea from but it doesn't have a shred of truth.

You must prove you are resident in the country. If you own a single dwelling that you are letting you are by definition not a resident because that house is not available to you to live in.

You must declare rent income to the the tax office whether you live abroad or not, and that is a clear proof that you do not live in the house. In any case this isn't really the issue: even if you leave the house empty ownership doesn't entitle you to NHS treatment.

You need to check these facts, because your strategy for getting health care from the NHS will not work. Once again it is residence ( renting long term, staying a certain number of days in the UK each year, and so on) not ownership of a house that will be looked at.

Edited December 18, 2015 by partington

[chiang mai]

Let me play devils advocate with you on that:

Even a Gipsy can prove where they were last week and last month, granted much of that proof would be down to individual testimony but somewhere along the line, at least one item of officaldom will pop up to confirm what they say is true, a petrol receipt, a council warning letter, a utility bill, a receipt from a supermarket, a mobile phone record and so on, there must be a thousand different things.

The question is, if you are an expat in Thailand these past five years or more and you were asked to do the same as the above, could you?

[Mobi]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

They probably knew her personally as she had been a nurse there for fifty years....

Anyway, as I said, the acid test these days is whether you are registered with a UK GP? It is very easy to check.

No it is not. I have personally been for a heart-scan at Papworth in the UK recently, and it is was my PASSPORT that determined RESIDENCY. NB everybody - this ruling has little to do with how many National Insurance payments you made in life, and nothing to do with whether you've 'fought for my country' or not - it is ALL to do with RESIDENCY. Being registered with a GP will not help on its own. By the way, i know from personal and anecdotal experience that many GPs still don't know about this issue - amazing considering that it was first introduced by a LABOUR government under Tony Blair - actually steered through parliament by Stephen BYERS who was Health Secretary at the time - so all comments about the 'nasty tories' are ridiculous. This issue has a long history therefore and any British ex-pats who are only just discovering it must have had their heads in the sand for a very long time, NB: there are different (softer) rules for UK State Pensioners - ie in receipt of a State Pension - providing you have lived in the UK for a minimum of 10 years prior to needing treatment. However, it gets complicated if you need treatment for 'prior conditions', just like with all medical insurance in the private sector. This is one of the best things you can read on the topic - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/help-with-health-costs/nhs-charges-for-people-from-abroad/

I am fully aware of all the links you have quoted and about the ten years contributions for non-resident pensioners and the additional free medical help you are entitled to, and all that stuff. I always follow the latest developments closely. The fact remains that you will still be charged in the event of a major operation on a visit to the UK that is the result of a pre-existing condition.... clearly the lady had already been on heart medication etc.

Case No 1. is a 70-year-old English resident that has lived in the UK her entire life and is now a pensioner. When she was admitted to hospital in Peterborough for a hip operation she had to fill in numerous forms to establish her residency - utility bills etc had to be produced as proof. Her passport was not asked for. In case you might be wondering, she was 100% anglo Saxon lady with a Northamptonshire accent you could cut with a knife.

Case no. 2 is myself. I was admitted to ER in the UK this year, with severe pains in my stomach. I was treated free - as I should have been - on an emergency basis, and at no time was I asked for my passport. I was asked for my GP 's name as it is all part of the information they require to be input on their system for every patient that is admitted. Having no GP will immediately raise a red flag.

GP's have been required for some time to check that patients are still resident in the UK by regularly writing to them at their UK address - especially if they have not been to the surgery for a period of time. They are also under increasing pressure to check people's immigrant status before registering them.

I maintain that registration with a GP is certainly one of the several tests that can be made to establish residency. Maybe checking passports has been added to that list.

Yes, it is a legal minefield - there was some talk of relaxing the rules for non-EU residents last year as part of some much larger piece of legislation but it seems to have fallen by the wayside.

But - the key thing is they will operate or treat you for a serious, pre-existing condition - even if you are broke. You can worry about paying later - if you don't die.

[joebrown]

UK residents in Thailand

How can someone be a UK resident if he's living in Thailand?

Did you mean a UK citizen resident in Thailand?

It must be a real challenge for citizens of nanny states to live in a world where you have to pay for things yourself.

Imagine you'll be one of those expats who stiffs a Thai hospital, which means the rest of us have to pay more to cover the costs of deadbeats.

You can be classified as a UK Resident if you own a house in the UK. The House is termed as your Home and Home is the key phrase. You don't have to live in it, only prove that you own it and you are then entitled to NHS Treatment. I am in the process of buying a house in the UK, which I will rent out so I have a reasonable health care safety net in the UK. I also have sufficient income to pay up to 500,000 baht health care here in Thailand (but at a healthy 71 cannot get Insurance), which should cover any immediate needs. I also have a Niece who is about to qualify as a Doctor in Thailand so will also have very good "connections" if need be. If you live in "the Wild West" you need to take steps to take care of yourself.

From what you've said you're probably healthier than me, and I'm only 69 yrs old. Anyway, I've recently taken out health insurance here in Thailand, and even with pre-existing exclusions the application/medical exam process was relatively easy. The policy I've taken out has various options for things like amount of co-payment, outpatient exclusion etc, and is quite flexible. The company has an office in Bangkok and my contact there was most helpful. PM me if you would like more information.

Edited December 18, 2015 by joebrown

[OldgitTom]

UK expats beware: I am a UK pensioner resident in Thailand.

Coupla years ago I had to renew my passport (expensive), After, my UK bank promptly cancelled my ATM card. The 'GUMMINT' had informed my bank of my changed passport (residence) address!!! On phone, I asked the UK bank why where I chose to live was any of their business. A bank tele-stooge said banks now, by law, had to establish customers' residence, citing drugs/arms dealing, terrorism, blah, blah, blah. Already, banksters dictate gummint economic policies. Now, all arms of government are sub-branches of banking.

Now I see what the cunning b*******s were up to. I paid my tax dues to the UK over decades, & now pay my own medical fees, etc. Yet still the bureaucratic fat-rats aim to screw me out of free NHS care if I return to the UK.

What a Conservative schweinerei Britain has become. And yes, I recognize the Labour Party is little more than the cons with a pale pink tinge. & no, I will not rush into the arms of racist UKIP, or the other Neo-Nasties of the EU.

Edited December 18, 2015 by OldgitTom

[Mobi]

If you have never informed anyone that you have left ,have a UK address and go to the doctor when you are over ,they will not know you live abroad ,a friend of mine needed an operation ,he flew over ,got a private consultation ,about 150 quid ,and was given a date about 6 months in the future ,he came back here and a week before it was due flew to the UK he is now back here after having his operation ,no one asked him anything and it cost him nothing ,now this is not second hand as I saw him off at the airport and picked him up some weeks later

Let's be clear about this, again:

The changes we're discussing here apply ONLY to those people who are not UK resident and have declared themselves as not UK resident.

Those UK citizens who are living here in Thailand but have created false residency in the UK by using a relatives address or similar, probably don't have too much to worry about, unless you get caught out somewhere.

You are quite correct.

But I read a government paper last year where they had carried out in-depth research into who was 'cheating' the system and how much it was costing the NHS. I confess I was quite surprised to learn that they are fully aware of all the tricks and lies used by non-residents to wangle free treatment. Everything mentioned in this thread and much more besides. They even knew of some tricks I had never heard of before.

Unless they give up and relax the rules - which is highly unlikely - I think they will slowly but surely clamp down on the cheats, and those caught in the act may end up spending some time at the pleasure of HM. Tax cheats and welfare cheats are universally hated in the UK these days and the government has to be seen to deal with them severely.

But it's up to you...

Me? I don't need a criminal record at my time of life.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Mobi

[Jonathon]

What you perhaps missed is that she was charged at the rate of 150% of NHS costs, as would any other person in her position be. So whereas immigrants can pay 200 Pounds for government insurance against these costs, indeed they are required to buy such a policy, UK expats are not allowed similar and even worse are seen as a resource to profit from.

It is the scandal of the century and totally outrageous.

It is all part of their race replacement agenda. Call it a conspiracy theory if you will, but more evidence appears almost every day.

[chiang mai]

If you have never informed anyone that you have left ,have a UK address and go to the doctor when you are over ,they will not know you live abroad ,a friend of mine needed an operation ,he flew over ,got a private consultation ,about 150 quid ,and was given a date about 6 months in the future ,he came back here and a week before it was due flew to the UK he is now back here after having his operation ,no one asked him anything and it cost him nothing ,now this is not second hand as I saw him off at the airport and picked him up some weeks later

Let's be clear about this, again:

The changes we're discussing here apply ONLY to those people who are not UK resident and have declared themselves as not UK resident.

Those UK citizens who are living here in Thailand but have created false residency in the UK by using a relatives address or similar, probably don't have too much to worry about, unless you get caught out somewhere.

You are quite correct.

But I read a government paper last year where they had carried out in-depth research into who was 'cheating' the system and how much it was costing the NHS. I confess I was quite surprised to learn that they are fully aware of all the tricks and lies used by non-residents to wangle free treatment. Everything mentioned in this thread and much more besides. They even knew of some tricks I had never heard of before.

Unless they give up and relax the rules - which is highly unlikely - I think they will slowly but surely clamp down on the cheats, and those caught in the act may end up spending some time at the pleasure of HM. Tax cheats and welfare cheats are universally hated in the UK these days and the government has to be seen to deal with them severely.

But it's up to you...

Me? I don't need a criminal record at my time of life.

A person would have to be seriously impaired to think government doesn't understand the games that quasi UK expat residents of Thailand (and other countries) have been playing with all of these things. We Brits seem to want our government and security services to do an excellent job at intelligence gathering and to protect us from terrorists but not notice that Fred brickie doesn't actually live at 22 Connaught Avenue as he says he does! It's almost funny.

[chiang mai]

What you perhaps missed is that she was charged at the rate of 150% of NHS costs, as would any other person in her position be. So whereas immigrants can pay 200 Pounds for government insurance against these costs, indeed they are required to buy such a policy, UK expats are not allowed similar and even worse are seen as a resource to profit from.

It is the scandal of the century and totally outrageous.

It is all part of their race replacement agenda. Call it a conspiracy theory if you will, but more evidence appears almost every day.

Conspiracy theory and not a very good one.

[Hairyharry]

What ignorant uninformed idiots most responders are to this topic.

Unbelievable

If you want to comment, at least make yourselves aware of the history, the recent election promises and the changes implemented since the election.

Otherwise, keep your fingers away from the keyboard and let the world think you are a fool, instead of posting an uninformed, stupid comment and proving it.

[emilymat]

This woman should not have been charged for an emergency. There must be something else in the story. (I don't think she should have been charged anyway).

Nevertheless, it is a fact an asylum seeker has more rights to NHS services than an ex pat Brit.

When Corbyn sends me his next e mail, asking for a question for the PM, I'll raise this. I doubt he will take an interst though. (JC I mean)

[OldgitTom]

MOBI,

you're so naive, I wonder if you can find the bathroom.

The real tax 'cheats' are the global corps & fat rats operating in the UK , but avoiding ALL taxation by 'offshoring'. The Con gov looks on them with forgiving & indulgent eyes, since they are all part of the same billionaire's club. It is the Aristocratic Mafia, & QE2 is Top Don.

'Offshoring' is legal, since it is done by the extremely rich. Ordinary expat Brits trying to use the NHS are 'cheats'. Crooks come from all over the world to stash their loot in the bankers' thieves kitchen, The City of London; for this very reason - they can avoid paying billions in taxes.

[GOLDBUGGY]

It has been like that in Canada for as long as I can remember. Even if you worked there all your life and then go back for a job and are paying taxes right away you can't get Health Insurance back until after 90 days on arrival. So you have to carry travel insurance or risk getting sick without it.

That is unless of course you are a Libyan or from Syria as then you get free Health Insurance right away, free English Lessons, and of course you don't have to work for at least a year as the government will take good care of you if you don't. Seems like the nicest dressed kids in the school these days are immigrants.

[uptheos]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

NB : it is all based on examining PASSPORTS. You now have to present them for hospital procedures in the UK - i have done this recently. So it's simple - ah madam you landed in the US in 2010 (for example) and your passport shows no returns to the UK until now (2015), and only short trips to (say) Mexico and Canada in the intervening 5 years. Conclusion : you live in the US !

What? I've never been asked to show my passport for any NHS service. Some UK residents have never travelled overseas and don't possess a passport.

What a load of old rubbish!!

Nothing more to say, it's just scaremongering.

[Sooo Upto Me]

But hey if ur polish, Indian, Syrian, Russian, Romanian, gypsie, u get it all free with a 3 bedroom hse in Hayes near Heathrow airport just f their convenience

Just saying. As I lived in London for las 30yrs. Now in Thailand

[uptheos]

Want to beat the system?

Don't have any money

Can't get blood out of a stone

[Konini]

What you perhaps missed is that she was charged at the rate of 150% of NHS costs, as would any other person in her position be. So whereas immigrants can pay 200 Pounds for government insurance against these costs, indeed they are required to buy such a policy, UK expats are not allowed similar and even worse are seen as a resource to profit from.

It is the scandal of the century and totally outrageous.

It is all part of their race replacement agenda. Call it a conspiracy theory if you will, but more evidence appears almost every day.

That's one of the worst conspiracy theories I've ever heard. It has nothing to do with race replacement, it's all about saving money - the NHS, much as we all love it and the services it provides, is not financially sustainable and will all fall in a heap sooner or later. The money pot is only paying the bills because the governments are borrowing more and more - Labour and Tories are guilty.

The NHS was a great idea, 'from the cradle to the grave', and in a utopian society it would be perfect, but the UK isn't perfect and is in so much debt the next generation and the one after that and the one after that will be paying for what we have today. Until the spending stops, future generations will pay for everything the NHS is doing right now. I'm a solid socialist, but can see how the system in the UK (both health related and welfare benefits) are unaffordable, unsustainable and will eventually collapse; probably not within our lifetime, but the kids in primary school today aren't going to have the same benefits that are available today, and will see them working until they are 70 and over and will be paying dearly for the excesses of consecutive governments funding the promises they made before elections to bribe the population into voting for them.

Regardless of how unfair they are, particularly for anyone who is paying taxes on their pensions (and I don't know if this is automatic or how many expats would pay tax), the law says that people who are not resident in UK are not eligible for NHS treatment with a list of exceptions; accident and emergency, being sectioned, being 'tortured, raped or the victim of FGM or trafficking) or resident in a country with a reciprocal agreement such as Australia and NZ and a few others. The laws are pretty much the same in Australia, I think it's 6 months out of the country to lose Medicare.

Fair or not, that's the law and anyone who breaks the law must accept the fact that they are cheating the system. If you want the law to change, you've got to get active in politics.

(I studied politics in UK a lifetime ago, and whatever you do won't make any difference. Trust me.)

[mizztraveller]

It has been like that in Canada for as long as I can remember. Even if you worked there all your life and then go back for a job and are paying taxes right away you can't get Health Insurance back until after 90 days on arrival. So you have to carry travel insurance or risk getting sick without it.

That is unless of course you are a Libyan or from Syria as then you get free Health Insurance right away, free English Lessons, and of course you don't have to work for at least a year as the government will take good care of you if you don't. Seems like the nicest dressed kids in the school these days are immigrants.

So, you're Canadian? Where are you or your ancestors from? Did you/they go to Canada to escape war or in any way in fear of their life? Or did they just want a better life?

It seems that neither of these reasons are acceptable now!

[mizztraveller]

But hey if ur polish, Indian, Syrian, Russian, Romanian, gypsie, u get it all free with a 3 bedroom hse in Hayes near Heathrow airport just f their convenience

Just saying. As I lived in London for las 30yrs. Now in Thailand

Rubbish! Just because it was in the Daily Mail doesn't mean it's true.

[Sutty]

Covered a million times if you keep a uk address Wetherby or not you pay tax or national insurance you will get free treatment I know I have done this fairly recently. All this scare mungering

[Eff1n2ret]

My apologies for getting annoyed, but really read the rules, they are in general talking about non UK passport holders or UK passport holders who have taken up residency in another country, simply living in Thailand on a Visa does not grant you Thai residency.

Utter nonsense. They are talking about UK passport holders who are not resident in the UK. Your immigration status in Thailand, despite its "non-immigration" classification, doesn't qualify you as a UK resident by default if you haven't got a UK address and can prove by council tax or utility bills that you're living there or can produce documentation such as instructions to estate agents or shipping documents for your household effects to demonstrate that you are resuming permanent residence in the UK.

On the subject of 'how would they know', my own experience (which I posted a few months ago in another thread) suggests that it's a bit hit and miss. I retired to Thailand just over 6 years ago. On a visit to UK in June/July I had a nasty bout of bronchitis and asthma which caused me to go to A & E on a Saturday, having found that the surgery where I used to attend was shut. At A & E reception I was asked no more than name, d.o.b. and where I was registered. Quite clearly my registration with that doctor/surgery is still extant because the receptionist said she didn't need any more details. When, several hours later I finally got to see a doctor and had some treatment, he said he wanted to admit me for further observation overnight. One of the reasons why I declined was that didn't want to push my luck, but I ended up feeling like an outcast in my own country and was actually glad to get back to Thailand.

I think it was Guesthouse who suggested that the lady featured in the OP should have thought about insurance. I did before that trip, but couldn't find a single policy available in Thailand to a 70+ year-old with pre-existing conditions such as a mild heart condition and a history of chest complaints. There are companies in the UK who market such policies, but in the small print you always find that they are available to UK residents only. For that reason, it seems extremely harsh to deny those expats in their final years the assurance of free hospital treatment (such as it is), or at the very least, as another poster has suggested, they could make the same charge to visiting UK citizens that is imposed on foreigners granted settlement visas in the UK. Even that, if collected as an "Insurance premium", would hurt a bit as it would add £400 to the cost of a visit by my wife and myself.

[SKguy]

The continued decline of a once great nation,despicable beyond belief how they can shun their own only to allow thousands of immigrants the same very rights they are denying those that have kept the cogs of social security turning for so long.

RIP Great Britain.

Couldn't agree more with you!

[chiang mai]

Covered a million times if you keep a uk address Wetherby or not you pay tax or national insurance you will get free treatment I know I have done this fairly recently. All this scare mungering

Why bring Wetherby into it, why not Tadcaster as well?

[mercman24]

i cannot understand the logic of this,i paid uk taxes for 50 years and still do on my 4 pensions accrued during my time in the uk, what is the difference of me living in thailand or in the uk, if i was living in the uk, nothing at all would be any different as far as i am aware, in fact you can say i have saved then money as i have gone to the local hospital a few times and paid my way here in Bangkok

[huawei]

First observation - she was given the treatment she needed regardless of who she was, where she was from or her ability to pay.

Second observation - the bill is not enforceable to the US where she lives

Third observation - she's a resident of the US, why does she not have travel insurance to come to the UK?

If she had travel insurance, or indeed if her health insurance in the US covers her for travel, they pick up the bill for the risk they received payment for and it is therefore right and proper for the NHS to claim the payment.

Expats in Thailand ought perhaps pay more attention to who will pay their medical bills if they face a similar medical emergency in Thailand.

British expats in Thailand who say they will never set foot back in the UK need not pay any attention to what the NHS does, they're never going to use its services (or so they claim).

Couldn't agree more. Someone I know living a very unhealthy life style had an enormous hospital bill here in Thailand which could not be paid..eventually was discharged...no payment.

Was that a Thai???

Foreigner.

[Fairynuff]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

Actually over 4,000,000 in the UK did NOT vote Tory but voted UKIP. I voted for UKIP from Thailand using a proxy voter quite legally but sadly the electoral system in the UK only gave the UKIP one parliamentary seat.

IMHO I think that at the next general election, The Labour party if they are still under Jeremy Corbyn will not win, the Tories who will not be under Big Dave Cameron will lose a lot of seats, the Lib/Dems under Tim Fallon (I had to look who it was on Wikipedia) shot their bolt last time probably don't stand much chance either. The SNP under Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond probably won't do that much out of Scotland.

To me that leaves Nigel Farage with UKIP, the Green Party under Natalie Bennett and a hodgepodge of other parties with no clear ideas or directions to fight the Tories.

For myself I truly believe that if UKIP don't win they will be a very strong opposition party to the winners.

Then perhaps things may start to get better for us expats and for the UK as a whole.

And you think UKIP will save the NHS???? They'll rip it apart faster than Camoron is doing

[Sutty]

Covered a million times if you keep a uk address Wetherby or not you pay tax or national insurance you will get free treatment I know I have done this fairly recently. All this scare mungering

Why bring Wetherby into it, why not Tadcaster as well?

Err cos I lived there Mr gramer police man Edited December 18, 2015 by Sutty

[huawei]

Covered a million times if you keep a uk address Wetherby or not you pay tax or national insurance you will get free treatment I know I have done this fairly recently. All this scare mungering

Why bring Wetherby into it, why not Tadcaster as well?

Err cos I lived there Mr gramer police man

Liked the race course..

[fred Kubasa]

Although many countries national insurances are accepted in Thailand. Us Medicare,the largest,oldest of all is NOT for any service nor any amount. I paid into this system for 60 years and can't use it . This is one of the things the useless US embassy teanm in Bangkok should be working on. That

being said it is neat to criticize the US govt., without fear of an " attitude adjustment " !